Crossing the Line

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  • Posted By: mom-of-three @ 10/19/2007 6:53:45 PM

    This disgust me!!!!!!!!! Women have a right to choose what they want to with their bodies, NOT LAWMAKERS!! I was date raped 17 years ago and ended up pregnant. Not only was the act itself horrible but then I end up pregnant and with terrible morning sickness. I was an emotional mess and chose to end the pregnancy. I went through a planned parenthood, and not only did they council me I was asked several times if I was sure that this is what I wanted to do. It was a scarey painful experience and not one that I would ever want to go through again. I love children and now have 3 kids but DO NOT regret the decision I made as a young 20 year old girl. I know my life would have been much worse to struggle going through an unwanted pregnancy and giving birth to a child that made out of violence and not love. UNLESS you have walked a mile in my shoes or any other girls shoes that have choosen to have an abortion, DO NOT pass judgments on us. Ones religious believes and views should not be the reason we take rights away from women. People act like its a walk through the park to go in to have such a procedure. WELL IT'S NOT, YES we are sad, go through bouts of depression afterwards and wish things could have been different. BUT leave them alone badgering them and telling them they are killing a baby only intensifies the grief and guilt they already feel. I think more good would come out of these PRO-LIFERS helping the 1000's of UNWANTED children already being born find good homes
    That's all I have to say!!

  • Posted By: ma2twinmonkeys55 @ 10/19/2007 6:42:50 PM

    I am tired of anti-choicers trying to run the lives and wombs of women who are not themselves. I myself aborted twice. Wach time I took considerable time to think through and weigh m options. I visited an OB as well as an abortion clinic. I contacted welfare as I was a college student and did everything humanly possible to make the right decisions for me. 115 years later I have not a single regret. I have two beautiful and WANTED sons and am finishing my Ph.D. in Educational Administration. A feat that would never have happened had I not aborted. Say what you will. But unless it is your body, you have NO right to dictate what happens to the ZEF.

  • Posted By: ma2twinmonkeys @ 10/19/2007 6:41:35 PM

    I am tired of anti-choicers trying to run the lives and wombs of women who are not themselves. I myself aborted twice. Wach time I took considerable time to think through and weigh m options. I visited an OB as well as an abortion clinic. I contacted welfare as I was a college student and did everything humanly possible to make the right decisions for me. 115 years later I have not a single regret. I have two beautiful and WANTED sons and am finishing my Ph.D. in Educational Administration. A feat that would never have happened had I not aborted. Say what you will. But unless it is your body, you have NO right to dictate what happens to the ZEF.

  • Posted By: mom-of-three @ 10/19/2007 6:31:28 PM

    Enter Your Comment

  • Posted By: akalhar @ 10/19/2007 4:18:05 PM

    I am pro-life, but feel that legislation is not the best way to combat the abortion problem. Yes, I would like abortion (except for perhaps in cases of incest or rape) to be illegal. For extreme cases that I listed, women should go through a counseling time helping them come to a decision on the matter of their child, and helping them recover from the harm that was inflicted on them from the conception of the child.. I understand that many women who are pregnant may not feel like they would either want to keep or be able to raise the children. There are, however, countless couples throughout the country that would be extremely happy to adopt in such instances. There is no secret why many of these couples go through a long, expensive, and exhausting process of adopting from overseas -- the reason why they don't adopt babies from the USA is because we prefer to murder our children rather than give them away. Pro-lifers need to step up to the challenge and consider adoption (and making this alternative known to those in hard circumstances). Further, we need to be able to support the women in these circumstances who could not afford the bills and resulting costs (like not being able to work in some instances) of pregnancy. Finally, pro-life should extend beyond the lives of the children who are in the womb, but extend all the way from conception to death. We tend to be far too selective when applying our position to circumstances. Let us bring to term a thriving culture of life rather than mere living.


    • Posted By: WestCoastSweetheart @ 10/19/2007 5:23:52 PM

      "except perhaps in cases of incest or rape" - I find this arfument the most perplexing of so-called Pro-lifers. They rant and rave about how it is wrong to kill a "child," and then turn around and state that in the above cases abortions are acceptable. Why? Because of the circumstance? There are so many holes in that argument that it is unbelievable to me that the abortion debate continues. If you are going to be a true Pro-lifer, then be a pro-lifer, not a "pro-life-sometimes-in-the-event-of-rape-or-incest-choicer" in whatever the case may be. I think it is just as immoral for an 11-year old rape victim to go through a pregnancy as I do a 22-year old woman who made a bad decision and DOESN"T WANT TO HAVE A CHILD. If you want to be a Pro-lifer, that is fine, but accept that you are okay with rape victims carrying babies, or molestation victims. There is no grey in abortion....it is black and white. You are either for it all, or against it all. If you are for it for some, and against it for some, you are a hypocrite. At the end of the day a fetus is a fetus regardless of how it got there...

      • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 10/19/2007 6:10:53 PM

        Not all "pro-lifer's" share this view. I'm against abortion, but also believe that women have a choice to make. Whether the pregnancy is due to incest, rape, or cencensual sex, it makes no difference. My view (as someone who does not support decisions to abort a pregnancy) is that I don't want the government to subsidize abortions. Even further, I completely disagree with the assumption that all women who head for the abortion clinic have weighed all of the options and consequences of their action. Many may have, but not all of them. And the legal support for Roe v Wade essentially says "hands off". It doesn't want a waiting period; it doesn't provide provisions to discuss other options with the mother; it doesn't want someone who has been through the experience to discuss the long term affects; it doesn't want to educate them in any way; it doesn't want ANYTHING to be done or said which can someway be construed as limiting. Perhaps the approaches used in the past are strong-arm tactics on the mother -- if that's the case that's not right. But there MUST be a way to educate and discuss other options without the world screaming that such reasonable action stomps all over their constitutional rights. I just don't understand why their can't be some middle ground here.

      • Posted By: Newsie @ 10/19/2007 5:41:44 PM

        I agree with you on this so completely. Either the fetus is the most important thing or it's not. Just how would anyone craft a law that checks to make sure you're a victim of rape or incest before the abortion is allowed? Would you just have to check a box and sign your name affirming that you had been raped or molested by your uncle and then get an abortion? What if it was date rape? Would you be allowed abortions in cases of date rape where you said no and he was too drunk to hear you? What would stop everyone who wants an abortion from doing just that?

        It's impossible to legislate this, so let's stop trying and put our resources towards education instead.

  • Posted By: equalrightsforall @ 10/19/2007 5:15:02 PM

    To hoopes_az - I share your pain. But I believe this is how they work, by avoiding the real issues and replacing the issues with inflamatory accusations. I can see that you understand that the underlying issue is really ensuring that all women have the rights to control their own bodies and life choices. In response, we are called baby killers and murderers. Nobody wants to be called a killer - thus the focus is shifted. They will take what could have been an intelligent debate and make it personal. I will not be intimidated by these people who claim to love life and yet hate so many who live. I continue to stand my ground, I continue to speak for equal rights for all - and I do this because I know I am right to do so. Do you know how I know I am right? Because my way of living, my voice, does not disallow others to live as well. My opinions allow for others to disagree with me and continue. My only request is that the people who disagree not force their ideals upon me and I will not force my ideals upon them. The only way for us all to exist is to eliminate legislation that restricts our ability to exercise our voices, our own human agency, our own rights to control what is done and what we do to our own bodies. It would also help if we tried a little harder to hate each other a little less.

    • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 10/19/2007 5:59:05 PM

      Thanks for a thoughtful, tolerant response.

  • Posted By: jacksmaid @ 10/19/2007 4:47:10 PM

    to Acopland: Agreed that it is not acceptable to kill a person. No argument there. But, there seems to be some confusion over just what constitutes a "person". The Bible says God breathed life into Adam. Consequently, Adam did not have "life" until he could take a breath. Likewise, a fetus is not a person until it takes its first breath -- AFTER IT IS BORN.

  • Posted By: drummerboy85282 @ 10/19/2007 5:41:57 PM

    Complaining that women have to go through a gauntlet to kill their babies is a sad argument.Everything in politics is tied up in time.Thats life or this case death;baby death.Good riddens that in this one small instance in some *** town nobody really cares about a few less women won't have the luxury of having their fetus destroyed at the drop of a hat.Time really does heal all wombs.

  • Posted By: Want A Change @ 10/19/2007 3:35:44 PM

    Pro-lifers are complete hypocrits: they (mostly Republicans) speak of caring about children yet they won't support education or health care. Pro-lifers are on a mission to fullfil their pathetic lives with a self-righteous stump to spew from yet turn their backs on the millions that are already here having an impact on society. If we promote education, health care and create a country that advocates a living wage, our abortion rate would drop dramatically without all the hatred, hypocrisy and disingenuious Pro-lifers stomping about.

    • Posted By: Newsie @ 10/19/2007 5:33:41 PM

      I saw some pro-lifers outside a church holding posters of aborted fetuses. My living children could have seen those posters, and I had never been so angry. How can your have so much love for unborn children and none for my 2 alive and well children?? Makes no sense. And, the posters were sad and ugly, but I don't know what they were. Maybe it was a baby who was miscarried. These folks were evil-doers using very poorly thought out scare tactics.

  • Posted By: Trev2h @ 10/19/2007 3:28:03 PM

    I read may posts about "a womans right to her body" but few about the rights of an unborn child. Does our constitution not provide equal rights for the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness to all human life? If life does not begin at conception then when does it begin; when do we start protecting life as life? When does a mother's rights supercede her childs rights? What's to stop the further legislation from taking the life of a child after it is born; pushing the date further and further back on defining what a "life" is? Once the door is open to taking ANY innocent life legally, the limitations for depravity are unthinkable.

    • Posted By: Newsie @ 10/19/2007 5:30:00 PM

      This is easy. Life begins at birth. A mother's right to life is more important than her unborn baby's right to life. Imagine the mother is moral and good and has 6 kids and having that baby she wants will kill her dead and leave her six babies motherless. The fetus is innocent and viable. Do you still choose the unborn baby over the mother? I don't.

  • Posted By: Newsie @ 10/19/2007 2:34:29 PM

    This is stupid. Women aren't second class citizens, and limiting their access to healthcare should be criminal and unconstitutional. How long is it before we don't get to choose to get breast cancer treated or have diseased uteruses removed? That's exactly what this is. It's not about murder and it's not about unborn children. It's about limiting my rights as a woman, and it's being done to get votes. It's dumb that we keep talking about this in this country. This is a slippery as hell slope that can not and will not ever be properly legislated. So,it's stupid. It's stupid, people!!

    • Posted By: LauraKay @ 10/19/2007 4:03:06 PM

      Now this is a stupid comment. Are babies second class citizens that deserve to die. And since when has pregnancy been looked at in the same light as cancer. Why on earth would someone stop you from getting cancer removed from your body. What is a good questions, is why the hell do people think that its ok to remove a living being from someone. To me those are two totally different things. I cannot believe that people think that abortion is a right. Yes there is the 1% of women who get pregnant from rape that would not want to go through with the pregancy. The other 99% were not being responsible and would like the easy way out. How many familes out there cannot have families of their own that would love to adopt. I really feal that abortion is selfish. I understand why you would want to get an abortion but just because it sounds like a good idea does not mean that its right.

      • Posted By: Newsie @ 10/19/2007 5:18:09 PM

        The fetus who is the result of rape or incest or who is killing it's mother for whatever reason is as innocent as the fetus who is simply unwanted. There may be some hardcore pro-lifer who would say abortion is never OK, even if the fetus is killing the mother. But, I hope that most would say that it should at least be made available to victims of rape and incest. My problem with that why is the rape fetus any less valuable than the unwanted fetus? See? It's a slippery clope. You can't legislate this succesffully. And, in teh end, taking awa my right to choose my healthcare is taking away my right to choose healthcare. And, that makes me a second class citizen in this country, and I am opposed to that in a big way. It's scary that people in this country are OK with limiting my access to healthcare because they think they are bettter decision makers about my health than me. If

  • Posted By: crazykrissy99 @ 10/19/2007 5:09:47 PM

    I wonder how many of the pro-life people have read the documented research showing that after the passing of Roe vs. Wade, the murder rate in the country dropped significantly. Missouri is already considered to be backwards in so many ways; this legislation is not going to help their reputation. Women have the right to decide what to do with their bodies- period.

  • Posted By: crazykrissy99 @ 10/19/2007 5:07:10 PM

    Enter Your Comment

  • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 10/19/2007 5:00:12 PM

    I think what the state is doing is dishonest. I really feel like I'm trying to participate and have an open discussion about my views and in doing so I'm getting spewed on by those who simply cannot accept that another perspective may have some validity to it. Whatever stereotypes many of you have about those who disagree with abortions, you should know that perhaps your views are accurate for some, but not for all of us. I'm reading from those here that because of my views I'm intolerant, stupid, a hypocrite, disingenuous, anti-life, and spewing hatred. And, that I should get over myself and move to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. All of this from those who claim to be the true tolerant ones, concerned about the welfare of all people, not just the unborn. It's easy to see why our legislators can't get along when we can't even have a meaningful discussion of our differences.

  • Posted By: georgemason @ 10/19/2007 4:59:23 PM

    To poppy8895: you keep stating that you do not understand why most of the people, who are against abortion, support death penalty. Well I am one of those. I am amazed that you do not see the difference. Here is a free lesson:
    DEATH PENALTY: TO PUNISH HARD-CORE CONVICTED CRIMINALS - AGAIN CONVICTED CRIMINALS
    ABORTION: TO INTENTIONALLY MURDER INNOCENT DEFENSELESS UNBORN BABIES
    I hope I make it clear. Any more questions?

  • Posted By: acopland @ 10/19/2007 4:37:18 PM

    A fetus is a baby, is a child, is a person. No if and or buts. Anyone who says abortion is not killing a person is crazy, stupid, or lying. The medical, ethical, and logical truth is, abortion kills a person. So lets discuss the true issue. When is it ok to kill another person? Is it ok to kill in self defense, is it ok to kill a person if they???re not wanted, is capital punishment ok?

    I look forward to the day when abortionist tell the truth, and say they are for killing innocent and defenseless children, because they are not wanted. Then the true debate can be held is ok to kill a defenseless person because they???re not wanted.

    Any one wants to debate this? When is it ok to kill a defenseless person?

    • Posted By: equalrightsforall @ 10/19/2007 4:58:23 PM

      Actually the medical and ethical truth is that when life begins is both a matter of opinion and a religious tradition. Believe it or not, there are religions in this world that believe that life does not begin until the umbilical cord is cut (representing separation of the life of the child from the life of the mother). I am a student of ethics and religion, this debate is not over. You saying it is does not make it so.

  • Posted By: jwillbuckeye @ 10/19/2007 4:58:05 PM

    The abortion rate is THE SAME whether or not abortion procedures are legal. Anti-choice superstars should focus on real education, i.e. birth control, if they want the rate to go down. It is the only providen method. Or we could just quote the bible all day...

  • Posted By: jwillbuckeye @ 10/19/2007 4:56:02 PM

    The abortion rate is THE SAME whether or not it is a legal procedure. Anti-choice superstars should focus on real education, i.e. birth control, if they want the abortion rate to go down. Go to Europe; get some pointers there.

  • Posted By: poppy8895 @ 10/19/2007 3:44:53 PM

    This is the United States of America. If you do NOT like that people have freedom and woman have choices go to Saudi Arabia or any other country where women are forced to be a certain way. Like it or not, it is a freedom. And if a woman cannot get an abortion here she will go elsewere or worse. I am sorry, I am not entirely comfortable with abortiion but it is not my business to say what others can or cannot do. It is bizarre, most people who are pro-life support the death penalty...Does not make sense to me. Pro-choice is American and if you do not like it go to Afghanistan or Latin America.

    • Posted By: georgemason @ 10/19/2007 4:46:46 PM

      To poppy8895,
      I am amazed that you do not know the difference between death penalty and abortion. Here is a free lesson:
      DEATH PENALTY: TO PUNISH HARD-CORE CONVICTED CRIMINALS - AGAIN CONVICTED CRIMINALS
      ABORTION: TO INTENTIONALLY MURDER INNOCENT DEFENSELESS UNBORN BABIES

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