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  • Posted By: erlaia @ 12/04/2007 11:44:56 PM

    Obviously, I would be inclined to agree with AD21. I note that, although iatrogenic memories are possible, they are not the norm. Concern, does your mother have a therapist that she is actively working with? If so, it may be time to schedule an appointment with that therapist to discuss the complex changes that may occur when your father deploys and her world destabilizes a bit. That may also give you an opportunity to discuss your concerns and fears. The therapist may well, without breaking client/therapist privilege, be able to provide you with cogent support and commentary that will help you formulate a dir4ection.

    I too suggest speaking with your mother, talking with her about how she perceives her needs. Sometimes significant change galvanizes an internal community into greater coalesced activity and internal communication with less conflict and tension.

    I note the shift of diagnosis from MPD to DID is insignificant, but simply reflects the change of medical nomenclature. From the information you provide, it would seem that your mother is a non-coconscious multiple, meaning that at least some of her alters are unaware of thoughts and feelings sustained by other alters.

    Important in all of this is to set your own boundaries. You cannot afford to focus completely on your mother's needs; this is not healthy for you or, frankly, for her. As you develop an understanding of her behaviors, be clear about what you can handle and what you cannot, always being mindful of gentle language. However, it is possible to convey, in a caring fashion, your need for personal time and interpersonal boundaries.

    If your mother is not in active therapy with a skilled trauma therapist, your best commitment to her will be to seek to get her to establish such a liaison. A trauma therapist, skilled in understanding dissociative competencies can support her in ways that you, as a layperson, cannot and should not. In addition, if you can support your mother in developing internal communication skills, such as journaling or art therapy, this may help to extend and amplify the work of a skilled therapist.

    AD21 cites some excellent resources that may provide you with more information and, thus, understanding.

  • Posted By: AD21 @ 12/04/2007 10:05:01 PM

    Oops! Sorry concerned, in our post (below) we thought you were suggesting your mom move with your dad -assuming he was deployed someplace where she could. If you live in or near the same town, maybe she would want to move in with you. Or maybe (if possible) you could move in with her, letting her stay in her own house. Certainly, more support while he's gone sounds like a good thing, even if it's just calling often, dropping by to visit, etc.

    Again, best of luck to you and yours,

    -AD21

  • Posted By: AD21 @ 12/04/2007 9:16:25 PM

    Please, concerned, don't make decisions about your mother's mental health care based on the biased opinions of someone like induced, who has never met her. In my biased opinion, she could well have genuine DID. ;-)

    Meeting a new-to-you alter, (Claire) isn't in itself a reason for worry -if your mother doesn't have a pattern of hurting herself, I think she's unlikely to start now.

    How much do you talk to your mom? I'm asking this because a decision of whether to move or not sounds like something to discuss with her- I'm sure she has thoughts, feelings and ideas about it. Seems like there would be a lot of factors to think about, including how long is your dad going to be gone, and where is he going, how does your mom do in his absence, and what kind of social support system does she have in your home town. If she's got a good support system, and/or a good relationship with her therapist, moving could be a major disruption.

    There are lots of misconceptions and fears about DID, but also lots of sources of education. The web site "Coping with Dissociative Identity Disorder" has a links section, which connects with information for people who have loved ones with DID. There are also plenty of books out there (check your library), including one I've heard recommended- the Dissociative Identity Disorder Sourcebook. I haven't read it, so I can't make any personal comments on it- just heard it was worthwhile.

    There's also lots of reasons for hope. I/we (yeah, we're multiple) see DID therapy as a journey of healing . We think your mom has a great opportunity to heal and to learn new, happier and more effective ways to get along. For all of her to get along, because -they're all her. If your mom is multiple, all the alters (including ones you don't think of as "mom") make up the person who is her.

    We're glad you're supporting your mom- thanks! It could be of great value to her. Just a couple more things we thought of - DID can be an emotional roller-coaster, as strong emotions are held be different alters. Things can look worse than they are- so don't despair, or think any state of mind is final- "the way it's going to be." Also, due to severe trauma, people with DID can be very sensitive to rejection and emotional hurt. You can think of it as having "an emotional sunburn" -things that wouldn't hurt somebody else, can be extremely painful for someone recovering from trauma. So be gentle- and at the same time respect her as a whole adult person, not a "mental patient." Tall order, but quite possible!

    We're glad you care, and best of luck to you and your family.

    -AD21

  • Posted By: induced1 @ 12/04/2007 6:52:52 PM

    Just my opinion - you're in a bad situation that requires professional, non-biased review of your mother's mental health, diagnosis and previous treatment - including her history of therapies utilized and drugs prescribed. Iatrogenic, or therapy-induced DID/MPD is very likely. It's not an easy thing to come to terms with or 'walk away from'. If you do not intervene by seeking professional help to understand the situation, things can get far worse. (Note: Even induced DID becomes "real" - I don't doubt you have witnessed some very odd behaviors.) You will need help to understand how best to deal with your mom too.

  • Posted By: concern @ 12/04/2007 10:15:36 AM

    Ok... I sense some tense conversation in here but I'm going to try to comment. I need some info/advice if possible. My mother was diagnosed about 2 or 3 yrs ago with MPD and then changed to DID. I was unsure if I believed it or not until recently. I am a sceptic of lots of things and this was one. So for the past yrs of her depressions, and other things that were going on, memory loss, no knowledge of how she got places, waking up in her car and not knowing how she got there, getting lost while driving in her hometown where she grew up. All these things did not convince me of DID or MPD. I thought maybe she had some brain issues due to abuse in her past and it was now comming to. But now I have to say I am starting to believe she does have DID because of 1 particular situation. She came down with Shingles. Very painful. She couldn't even wear clothing. The pain was so bad she just wanted to lay in a bath all day. Impossible but she tried. She then one morning woke up, fully clothed, walking around picking up things, cleaning moving like there was no pain at all. My father asked her what she was doing out of concern and if the pain was gone. She asked what pain as if she had never had any. He asked her by her name "what about the Shingles?" and she lifted her shirt to look at her belly as he asked her and she hit and rubbed it showing no pain and asked my father to call her Claire. This was a 20 something year old Personality that felt no pain as far and my mother went. She went out to dinner and came home and slept when she woke, 15 minutes later she was my mother again and in pain worse than before. This concerns me. I am afraid she will hurt herself. She doesn't recall a bit of what happened. She knows of some of the personalities but not them all. Not Claire. Claire doesn't seem like she wants to hurt her but just wanted to prove that it didn't hurt. She is also a young boy 11 yrs old. My mother is 50. And when she is the boy she will forget to wear bras and wears a ball cap and wants to play basketball all the time. She ate a snickers for breakfast, very 11yr boy like. Should I be afraid? When my father deploys should I have her move with me instead of staying alone? Thanks for your help.

  • Posted By: katzz @ 12/03/2007 5:55:06 PM

    yes- I find this alarming, that does not however mean that D.I.D. does not exist...I hope you dont , mind me asking but what do you mean by... "Dialog is only enjoyed if it pertains to how complex 'their system' is or if 'they' have an opponent 'they' can textually conquer / out-bash, while avoiding the true substance behind this controversy."....Im not trieng to be ignorany here, just trying to clearly understand what you mean..
    thanks

  • Posted By: induced1 @ 12/03/2007 11:28:51 AM

    Dialog is only enjoyed if it pertains to how complex 'their system' is or if 'they' have an opponent 'they' can textually conquer / out-bash, while avoiding the true substance behind this controversy. Painfully lacking, are any responses to (a post that stated) ONE therapist had several dozen iatrogenic DID patients. How does a mental health care provider simply 'graze over' that sort of statement without addressing what was done with those induced DIDs? Does anyone else find this alarming?

  • Posted By: katzz @ 12/02/2007 8:25:29 PM

    I find it sad that in this day in age there are therapists who have used their position to abuse their trust with their clients and used methods to have the patient belive they have other personalities...its a lose, lose situation, .this not only harms their patients but also those of us who really do have D.I.D. from lifes experiances as a young child.....

  • Posted By: trevorg @ 12/02/2007 6:34:32 PM

    See what I mean Induced1, that's what brainwashing does to many iatrogenic individuals.

  • Posted By: induced1 @ 12/01/2007 2:23:46 PM

    This is a public blog - I direct my appreciation for opportunity to respectfully discuss the issues to all participants. I stated why I wished to revisit the questions regarding ???several dozen iatrogenic DID patients???- the implications of the single therapist???s comment is quite relevant to the incidence of IDID. That therapist took an active role in hostile exchanges here and did not ???go quiet??? until I posed questions regarding the legitimacy of her ???professional??? claims.

    If you would kindly post where I???ve stated ???all false memories are implanted by therapists??? and that ???all memories of abuse automatically result in a diagnosis of DID??? - I???d greatly appreciate it. If you???ve formed such defensive, sweeping assumptions from my comments, I suggest you read them again when you???re able to do so without making incorrect assumptions.

    While you defend your own DID (which I have not questioned), you dismiss all pertinent dialogue regarding iatrogenics. The therapist???s comment regarding personally having seen ???dozens of IDIDs??? is alarming. My questions are not hostile or accusatory. They are direct. I suspect true response to those questions would implicate probable therapeutic ???misadventure???, neglect or malpractice.

    • Posted By: erlaia @ 12/01/2007 7:31:28 PM

      really no more interested in dialogue than Claudette, simply marginally more courteous at the outset. Look at your language, it is broadscope and sweeping in its assumptions. You and Claudette now can retreat to your corners, comfortable in the knowledge that you have achieved an absolute aridity of communication. As for me, I'm truly done with it, this is pointless.

  • Posted By: induced1 @ 12/01/2007 11:16:01 AM

    I appreciate offers of contemplative, respectful discussion. Here is what I'd like to revisit. I am cutting and pasting to save time, but remain very concerned about the scary implications of a previous reply posted by 'Choonzer' regarding the number of iatrogenic patients she states she has encountered. If ONE therapist treats or finds dozens - consider the enormous volume of these IDID patients...

    "Iatrogenic DID certainly occurs, as you apparently can attest, and I've seen a fair number of what I believed to be those as well. But I haven't seen all that many, maybe a couple dozen"

    During your own years as a mental health professional, 'ONLY' a few DOZEN cases of therapy-induced DID? How did you handle these 'discoveries'? Where did you direct them to go for help in removing the false memories of abuse that their own therapy implanted? Might this part of your history be important to post here with your other assertions? Wouldn't that be far more beneficial to any abuse victim who is interested in understanding how memory works and making an informed decision regarding their therapy options?

    One must seriously contemplate what these (questionable) observations indicate regarding the origin of DID, and what the (unanswered) questions mean to DID patients currently in treatment and how that relates to the large volumes of iatrogenic DID patients and false memory syndrome incidence.

    • Posted By: erlaia @ 12/01/2007 12:19:42 PM

      I note that if you appreciate the offer from me of contemplative respectful discussion, it would be useful to start with directing that discussion to me, who is not the therapist who posted. M oreover, the tenor of your question is accusatory and hostile in nature, and hardly a basis for contemplation and interactive dialogue. I do note that your question presumes two sweeping creative leaps, one which involves the assumption that ALL false memories are implanted by therapists. I note that some folks are entirely capable of generating them entirely on their own, malignant therapist or not......and your second sweeping conclusion is that all memories of abuse automatically result in a diagnosis of DID, which is hardly the case.

      The therapist dropped off the posting on this site after repeated hostilities from the charming Claudette, given the accusatory nature of your question, I doubt that he/she will surface to respond to more of the same. My hope, obviously dashed, was to try to sustain a dialogue between two people with personal experiences, not engage in a hopeless discussion of statistical analysis that is virtually impossible to substantiate given the entirely murky records surrounding sexual abuse........

  • Posted By: trevorg @ 11/27/2007 2:34:24 PM

    Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

  • Posted By: Bizcoach @ 11/26/2007 11:04:20 PM

    It seems to this elderly observer that the conflict between Trevorg and Erlaia is both inevitable and irreconcilable. Both parties are wasting their precious time.

    Here's why I say that. Erlaia's mind appears to be open to a wide range of possibilites, while Trevorg's has evidently been subordinated to a web of "settled beliefs." In my experience, the former is generally open to rational discussion, learning, change, and some degree of progress. The latter, I've found, tends to be closed to any discourse except unconditional agreement, which--sadly--leaves no possibility of progress beyond those beliefs. As the slogan goes, "A mind is a terrible thing to waste," yet perfectly good minds are wasted every day when their reasoning faculties are replaced by True Beliefs.

    It's always hopeless to hold a peaceful debate with True Believers. They're too frightened to venture outside the security of their beliefs. Furthermore, they often react...um...rabidly when they're opposed. No surprise--I fight, too, when I feel threatened; it's just that I seldom feel threatened by anyone who's not brandishing a weapon or rearing back to hit me. Arguments don't threaten me, they engage me.

    This isn't meant as criticism, it's merely observation (although I admit I prefer to avoid True Believers, since at my age I hate to waste time). Truth is, I'm deeply empathetic with the fears that drive True Beliefs. I think we're all tempted to flee into the peace of settled beliefs when we become baffled by life's more complex puzzles. I know I am.

    But speaking strictly for myself, I couldn't feel I had "lived" my life if I had been absent from the battlefield, hidden far away from its risks and thus from its rewards. I want to make a difference of some sort, rather than simply adopt a complete set of beliefs I've been given by someone else, thereby leaving no unique footprints on the world.

    • Posted By: erlaia @ 11/27/2007 2:13:41 PM

      it is, indeed, a waste of time, which is why I have backed off from the Claudette-baiting that I had been doing, it is ultimately a little tasteless, and pointless. I also will be stopping responding to her directly, as it is clear that there is nothing that I say that she will not react to in bitter and rampant hostility. And, I note that my offer for a sincere discussion with Induced has been met with some level of, shall we say, nonresponsiveness.

      in fact, I think this whole posting is about cooked, the positions defined. No real dialouge has occurred here for some time.

  • Posted By: trevorg @ 11/27/2007 12:46:16 AM

    When minds are lost in the hopeless belief of some quack therapy,are being brainwashed, taken away from their loved ones, then it is not only a terrible waste of a mind, it is a terrible waste of a human being going nowhere except in the mud they want to wallow in for the rest of their lives. I'm glad I can use this forum as a hobby, yet still have a life of reality and normalcy.

  • Posted By: trevorg @ 11/22/2007 1:39:21 PM

    Oh my, now Erlaia presumes that I have rabies!
    What an intellect!

  • Posted By: induced1 @ 11/21/2007 10:35:46 PM

    Erlaia - your compulsion to verbosely spar with Claudette has become equally predictable. I don't, however, find your fancy vocabulary amusing or productive. Apparently being textually 'intellectual' doesn't mean you have anything pertinent to lend toward the (lost) direction of this blog site. It's probably much easier for you to wander off topic, rather than address the true controversies behind MPD, DID and memory regression therapies? How impressively 'impenitrable' of you.

    • Posted By: erlaia @ 11/22/2007 8:42:14 AM

      Again, I note that my language is academic and sometimes stilted because English is my second language. I presume no intellectual superiourity because I've had to learn English from books. If you want to discard what I have to say because you find the language artificial, so be it.

      And you are right, my baiting Claudette is a shallow form of amusement, one that I began to engage in only after it became apparent that she will discount any statement pertaining my own history that I make.
      zYou, on the other hand, have noted that you have a position, but are willing to understand that others have other experiences. So, Induced1, if you wish, I suggest the followoing. From rereading your posts, I know you have a painful experience, and one that I believe can happen. I would like to learn more about your personal healing journey, what happened, how you got to where you are now. If you are willing to speak to your PERSONAL experience (not the books, not the FMSF statements, etc), I would like to listen and learn. By the same token, I would be willing to post about my PERSONAL experience, my personal journey.

      However, in agreeing to this, I know that any post I post here will be subjected to an internet form of screaming in my face from Claudette, so , at the outset, if you wish to engage with me in a true and honest dialogue, I will have to strive to ignore her essential rudeness. And - given what has transpired, it may be too late for any form of real discourse to occur on this site. But, induced, if you are willing to speak from the heart about your personal experiences, I am willing to listen and learn - if, by reverse token, you take me seriously. I note that I posted very seriously and honestly about my personal experience elsewhere on tihs site. I commit to not using "attack language' in my posts with you. As for the intellectual pomposity of my language (as you percieve it) I' m afraid that is just part of who I am.

      It may be too late for any form of real dialogue, given the rampant hostility that has dominated this site for some time. But, if you are game, and can set aside Caludette's rabidity, I am game. However, I note that my not posting for several days reflects only that I will be away from an internet connection for a time.

  • Posted By: trevorg @ 11/22/2007 12:39:05 AM

    I do believe I am entitled to an opinion even though I am bull headed when it comes to my feelings about quack therapies and diagnosis.
    I believe that we are all unique with individual DNA that can only be matched with an identical twin. Even then, identical twins will have differences.
    I believe that we all came to this sometimes unjust earth with only one heart that is gauranteed to be broken numerous times.
    I believe we are born with only one brain which gives us our one and only personality and intellect and how we use that brain will determine just how successful and strong we can be even in the face of adversity, tradgedy or abuse.
    I believe we are also born with a soul and it is the soul of man that gives us concience to know the difference between right and wrong. That is one area where we all fail, because we are human!
    At the end of the day, when you look in the mirror, there is only you, give yourself a smile, and determine that you'll make the best of the day at hand, because there is only today and maybe tommorrow, the end will come too soon.

  • Posted By: erlaia @ 11/21/2007 8:36:19 AM

    Actually, my dear, you have just vastly amused me with your predictibility. Yet another rant, another tear, another bully pulpit of sloppy lnaguage, mudslinging and wild charges, all backed up by the impenitrable grief of your loss. In your rants, you continue to make a case, not for the ideas you prosyltize , but rather for the opposition. keep up the good work!

  • Posted By: trevorg @ 11/20/2007 7:23:17 PM

    Erlaia: Oh, so you think what I've just written as pallid? Pale, non essential? Well, for you to be so narrow in mind shows that I've really gotten to you! Good!
    I never have, nor ever will RECOGNISE RMTS (s for syndrome) or DID as a legitimate form of mental illness. I know personally because of my daughter's brainwashing into these areas, and furthermore from the statements of retractors and their parents, grandparents and siblings, too many to count.
    My grief is certainly none of your business, especially the way it affects me, except to say I use my experiences to warn others not to get sucked into this quigmire of new age, experimental, quack/money making maladies that have absolutely no foundation in science.

    I can also attest to the fact that I've had to be strong to have survived this, but, I do live a normal life, socialize, love gourmet cooking for a large crowd and in general keep busy so I don't succumb to thinking of my girls all day, but do think of them daily.
    There is very little celebration in my heart for the holidays, birthdays, etc. however, I do try to participate for the sake of my remaining loved ones.
    You say I live (bathed) in grief? Nonsense, my routine is a quick 10 minute shower and then I get on with life, trying to do what's right and what my girls would have wanted me to do -survive!

    Indeed, why do you think, you individuals are now in the minority?
    Not just because of lawsuits, but, because of the incredible suffering it has caused in hundreds of thousands of families all over the world.
    The normal, good living public is sick of all of this nonsense and I know that the truly enlightened Psychiatristss and good Psychologist of this world will try to correct these horrible decades of dangerous therapies.
    Therapies that hurt, like lobotomies, of many years ago, usually go by the wayside because therapy is NOT suppose to hurt people and make them worse and for the rest of their lives?
    Give me a break!

    Talk to me again when you have lost your precious first born and your only grandbaby!
    You madame or mr or how ever many, are the heartless FOOL/FOOLS!

  • Posted By: trevorg @ 11/20/2007 1:57:16 PM

    To those who feel I've been far too critical, that I've ridiculed etc. I have something for all of you to think about.
    When there are those on this board, earlier on, that would have the viciousness to even speculate that I would have had any influence or fault in my daughter's suicide and therefore the death of my grandbaby? -then I guess it's my nature to fight back. Statements of that sort, can hurt to the very core of your being. You haven't a clue how many thousands have had to suffer false allegations, death, and destruction of family due to the narrow mindedness and brainwashing of radical believers in this nonsense of RMT and DID!
    SO, like one of you said: "Suck it up!"

    • Posted By: erlaia @ 11/20/2007 4:48:51 PM

      This is a pallid response, Claudette, and your statement hardly justifies the vicious sarcasm and illiterate smacking around you attempt to do verbally in an area that you have no real understanding of and choose not to acquire. Your unwillingness to recognise that DID does exist means that those of us who live that as part of our lives, have no basis for communication. When you combine that with insults, there is no real dialogue. I am sorry that you lost your daughter and granddaughter. You can live bathed in that grief until the day you die, and it is glaringly apparent that you are doing just thta. however, in the process, verbally attacking any and all who have the slightest difference of opinion only serves to make you look the fool.

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