'This Is Not a Bluff'

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  • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 10/23/2007 5:00:39 PM

    The words religion and politician is an oxymoron, cause no politician can be a good anything, but for maybe a satanist, as ALL politicians practice complete disregaurd of the seven deadly sins daily, and what you want to call them, is not why they were hired to do. they were elected to lie,cheat,steal,and greed for there state and there own pockets, which is why 8 years, and further back the Senate,house all voted there raises with the social security increase cost of living bill for the last 20 years. Now you start to tax every church who believes in the "One true God" income,holdings,homes,property,and donations, then they can play. Both parties pay to play today so should the church if they want there own party, and i do not want a religious country. I'm embarassed enough as a Veteran today, don't give me yet another reason to doubt the longevity of the Un-United States Of America> Pay to play, either you stay out of DC and tax free, or pay up!! Not my beliefs: Beware ladies the bible did not give you one right, except to kiss a mans backside for a living!! Man gave you rights and man goes overboard with everything, so give politicians a reason to put you back on your knees and in the kitchen, beware he will!! Sound good to you??? It would kep Hillary out of office though???

  • Posted By: awrsmith @ 10/23/2007 4:56:48 PM

    Are political parties allowed to be formed to represent a relgious belief, and in turn is that then open to all relgions? This sounds like a slippery slope.

  • Posted By: Sriz @ 10/23/2007 4:55:39 PM

    A third party could probably not win the Presidency, but could possibly hold the balance of power in the congress as the orthodox Israelis do in Israel. That way, they could vote for the Republicans when they are right and the Democrats when they are right. That's what we need.

  • Posted By: whosaidthat @ 10/23/2007 4:55:11 PM

    Wow. The posts here pretty much giftwrap the case for a multi-party system. Everyone is forced to pick a side, whether it fully represents what he or she believes or not. The only reason it's harmful for the Evangelicals to create a third party or to endorse a third party candidate is because the way the system functions right now, it's basically a gimme for Democrats. Which is not so bad for Democrats, but not so great for democracy. That's always going to be an issue in this country until the American people really get serious and revolutionize governmental representation. A better way is to have more choices. What if you could choose a party platform that most closely represented your view (this way, the people in the middle don't get trampled by the fringe alarmists on either side), and even if the platform didn't win the majority, they would still be granted an equal representation of the vote they received. Your party gets 10% of the vote, you get 10% of the representation in government. This seems to me a much more reasonable way to insure that the interests of the voting public are being advocated, as opposed to the red/blue (essentially black or white) mess we've got now that leaves many citizens feeling disenfranchised and disgusted at having to choose between the lesser of two evils. It will almost certainly never happen because too many people with much more power than I benefit greatly by maintaining the status quo. A girl can dream though, can she not?

  • Posted By: lauerca @ 10/23/2007 4:49:41 PM

    I wonder if this is how the Taliban got its start.

    • Posted By: YODUDE @ 10/23/2007 4:54:43 PM

      What a stupid comment. I would not compare even the most liberal democrats to the Taliban.

  • Posted By: ru4real6846 @ 10/23/2007 4:53:31 PM

    We don't want another republican as president. They do nothing but lie and screw up this country. Look at what George Bush has done. He sent our troops to war, not because of our freedom or terrorism. He did it, because he wants Iraq's oil. We want Hillary Clinton for our next Commander in Chief. She is the only one qualified for the job.

  • Posted By: bey756 @ 10/23/2007 4:52:23 PM

    First let me say that I am a republican, however, this crap about the Evangelical right. This is a code word for Klu Klux Klan which I do not support. Being a Christian is about your faith in the fact that Jesus shed his blood to help renew the spirit of Adam. I certainly don't put my faith in people like George W. Bush whom I feel is just a dry drunk, doing the twelve step program in the Oval office. Second I am not going to confuse my faith with who the best political leader may be since one characteristic that a politician must have is the ability to lie. Certainly I have witnessed both republicans, and democrats be terrific liers. Jesus promoted peace, yet both parties practice anything but peace in their devisive talk, and actions. Yes we need a third party because frankly both parties take the american people as a whole for granted. We as American citizens need to become more involved in the political process and hold any elective official accountable.

  • Posted By: Orlandofreethinker @ 10/23/2007 4:51:57 PM

    Where is the integerity in the GOP party? Stop turning your heads to the obvious( turning a Blind eye). And as far a wanting to rewrite history, i believe it is the Right Wingers who always want to change the Constitution.. This approach is a typical Right wing self proclaimed Christian approach. Get out of Politics and back to your churhes and this country will be a much better place. You know the world will survive without all of you deciding what is best for the rest of us..

  • Posted By: Awake @ 10/23/2007 8:14:31 AM

    No sorry my friend..This country was not founded by christians..Have you ever read any early history?? Open up a history book or two and get back to me on that one. Have you ever heard of William Penn..Do you know who the quakers are..Do you know what thier belief system was??..Do you know who the the rosacrucians are..Do you know how many founding fathers were rosacrucians?? Do you know anything other than what you can see with those blinders on??

    • Posted By: cassdenata @ 10/23/2007 8:58:40 AM

      Founded by christians, huh? Ever heard of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Ben Franklin and the other enlightenment thinkers who founded the country. Ever read the Treaty of Tripoli, the Virginia Statutes on religious freedom.

      "I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies."
      "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus...in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter".
      - Thomas Jefferson '

      "Who does not see that the same authority which can estabish christianity, in exclusion of other religions,k may establish with the same ease any particular sect of christians, in exclusion of other sects."
      - John Adams -
      "The United States of America is in no sense founded on the Christian religion." From the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified unanimously in the senate and signed by president John Adams in to law.

      "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
      "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
      - Benjamin Franklin -

      • Posted By: 12thLetter @ 10/23/2007 2:44:53 PM

        The accuracy of that Jefferson quote is not verifiable outside of the Internet and the Adams quote is taken out of context. If you've ever read the entire Treaty, or just the entire paragraph, you would have figured that out. And here's a good reliable Ben quote when he finally grew up at 81 yrs old: "I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings that "except the Lord build they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this." I think someone needs to go through American history class again.

        • Posted By: cassdenata @ 10/23/2007 4:51:24 PM

          Secondly, many founding fathers believed in a deistic god (this was before darwin) but were hostile to xtianity. Your Franklin quote has nothing to do with christianity. Why is god not mentioned ONCE in the constitution, why is Jefferson so concerned about the wall between church and state? Why are we debating what some dead, white men felt about imaginary beings and the fairy tales they spawned?

        • Posted By: cassdenata @ 10/23/2007 4:39:58 PM

          It is ironic to be told by someone who believes that this country is a christian nation, that I need to go through American History again (in my case it would have been Advanced Placement (AP) history again). There are two separate Jefferson quotes listed from different sources and he there are many more documented. You have an uphill battle if you think the writer of the DOI was anything but hostile to religion.

        • Posted By: leodelaney @ 10/23/2007 3:59:31 PM

          Enter Your CommentExactly where does it say he was talking about Christianity. He could have been talking about tree worshiping, the Gree Pantheon, The Norse Gods, Buddah or any other religious figure of that or any other day. Merely because he quotes the Bible, something very commen in his day, need it be assumed he is talking about Christianity. And that is what we are talking about here; the assumption in the face of evidence and the writings of those involved that the United States was created as a Christian nation. I have no opinion and I don't care because it is a trivial point anyways. Akin to "How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?" or "Did Christ laugh?" though one would hope he did. He's dull enough as it is and the thought of being unable to laugh makes him pitiful to boot.

  • Posted By: trulysexypoet @ 10/23/2007 4:22:20 PM

    I consider myself to be a Christian, and I applaud anyone who lives, and acts upon their beliefs. BUT, I cannot support ANY candidate who would try to FORCE THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS upon others. Any candidate who would seek to establish laws, or bend current laws in a way which would force others to abide by their own religious beliefs has no business in our government. If one were to take a step back from the question at hand, and look around the world at other governments which take an active role in promoting one certain religious belief, one can see numerous examples of why this type of government has no place in our country. We are involved in a religious civil war in Iraq, in which several different factions of the Muslim religion believe that 'THEIR' particular beliefs should be followed by everyone in the country, and they strive to enact, and enforce laws that would punish anyone who does not believe as they do. More people have been killed throughout history over religious beliefs, and reasons than any other reason. In Iraq, their religious beliefs are more dear to them, than anything that freedom, or democracy has to offer. In fact, the freedoms that we enjoy in this country, are in direct opposition to what their religious beliefs tell them about how they should live their lives. Religious beliefs, and democratic government, HAVE to be found, discovered, or taken into one's heart by choice, and not be force. Only by seeking it themselves, can it mean enough, and impassion them enough to fight for it, themselves. Our govenrment has taken us into this war under false pretenses, and accusations, and we now find ourselves at a loss on how to get out of it, without leaving it worse than it is now. In my opinion, Iran is being pushed into developing nuclear weapons out of the fear that this country may choose to invade, or attack it without provocation, as we did in Iraq, and they know that our military power can easily defeat them, using conventional means. To them, the only thing that they feel can protect them from this happening, is to threaten the use of nuclear weapons should that happen. And why should they feel otherwise about being attacked? We have already shown them that we will do it, even if OUR intelligence is flawed, or wrong. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to turn their backs upon centuries old rellgious beliefs is not something that they want their country to embrace. And neither do the people of this country. I don't mind a president that prays to God, asking for direction, but I DO NOT want a president trying to force his particular beliefs upon me, and my family, all in God's Name. And that includes appointing strict constructionist judges to enforce their beliefs upon us all.

    • Posted By: atruemoderate @ 10/23/2007 4:51:14 PM

      Wow! trulysexypoet. Very well said. I'm in love with your brain! Keep on postin', maybe some of that intelligence will leak in to the luddites out there.

  • Posted By: ru4real6846 @ 10/23/2007 4:50:58 PM

    We don't want another republican as our president. They do nothing but lie and screw up this country. Look at what George Bush has done to this country and the American people. Bush sent our troops to war, not because of our freedom or because of terrorism. He did it, because he wants Iraq's oil. So NO republicans. We want Hillary Clinton to represent our country, we call America.

  • Posted By: timbo @ 10/23/2007 4:50:45 PM

    they should start inforceing the seperation of church and state .bush has already taken us back to the dark ages.who about only atheist for president or any political position,

  • Posted By: lauerca @ 10/23/2007 4:49:14 PM

    I wonder if this is how the Taliban got its start.

  • Posted By: Travisga30 @ 10/23/2007 4:07:26 PM

    People...please, many of you need to inform yourselves of RON PAUL. If you are a Conservative, If you think the US Constitution is important...RON PAUL is our only logical choice. Ron Paul is Anti-Abortion, Christian, against War, for LESS Government ie. spending less of our hard-earned taxes for fruitless causes that impoverish us at home, erode the Law of the Land, and destroy the good name of America abroad. Pro-Life groups herald RON PAUL as their man, because he ALONE attempted to bring the UNBORN under Federal Protection by declaring them as living people with inherent rights from God. Folks this has been the only solution to Constitutionally deliver the silver bullet to abortion. Ask yourselves why he did not receive support from his fellow Republicans, which we assume to be conservative, anti-abortion, and Christian. RON PAUL is a humble Christian man, a statesman, with an unparalleled voting record. Quite simply he is also the most experienced candidate running because he has been in Congress since the 70's. He helped get Ronald Reagan elected as a delegate to the Convention. I can't say enough good about him. He is the result of our prayers for this land to be healed. He is igniting a modern movement of Freedom and Liberty that this land has not seen for decades! Remember, God gives us the FREEDOM / LIBERTY to choose him, for if we are forced it is not an act reflecting our souls. Yes, this is scary because so many use their freedom to choose evil, but it has always been this way. We must seek morality and respect for the rule of law (the Constitution) more than ever, if we are to avoid God's fearful judgement on our land. I humbly implore you to go to: www.ronpaul2008.com. Give him a chance. We don't need another party. He is not perfect, but he is the BEST WE HAVE. Thank you.

    • Posted By: atruemoderate @ 10/23/2007 4:46:20 PM

      I really admire you Ron Paul supporters. I have looked at him and find him to be well read and intelligent. I admire his call to actually follow the Constitution but disagree with his conclusions and ideas of how to follow the Constitution. He is worth listening to but would be extremely dangerous to have in office.

  • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 10/23/2007 3:58:31 PM

    John Edwards is also a patriotic American, with a heart, and a lot of very good ideas for HERE AT HOME, not the world, but he has plans for that to, but his actions are directed at the USA first everyone else second, which I like, and could live safely under. Give me a good heart, and i could care less what his religion is, as it's what is in his heart, is what will affect every day life.

    • Posted By: last born @ 10/23/2007 4:45:42 PM

      yea right, maybe free 400.00 dollar hair cuts !

  • Posted By: awrsmith @ 10/23/2007 4:44:58 PM

    A 3rd party could hand the election to the democrats. I am a Canadian, and I don't pretend to know your political landscape more than what I hear through media. We regularly have 4-5 party elections, with only 1 on the right (The Conservative Party of Canada), while the other 4 parties duke it out for leftist votes, the conservatives won with only 34% of the popular vote. It is a now minority government, with minimal power and alot of time spent working out backroom deals to support each others initiatives.

  • Posted By: Pecos_Bill @ 10/23/2007 4:05:06 PM

    I was raised a Republican and both worked for and voted for Reagan in 1980. But I was never comfortable with the Cal Thomas/nutcase "conservative evangelical" wing of the Republican party. They have since taken over the entire party and their froot loop ideas are everywhere. I haven't voted Republican since the 1992 election and even my elderly parents are voting democratic now, not because we love government solutions to problems, but because the Republican party has become a flat-earth society. They are anti-science, anti-environment, pro-war (Any war!) and just nutcases. I think it would be a GREAT idea for fruitcakes like Richard Land to start their own party. Then the Republican party can again become a party of rationality, and I might vote for them again. I believe as Vince Lombardi used to say, "You can only go as fast as your slowest student", well the Religious right in this country IS the slowest student and its time they grew up!

    • Posted By: atruemoderate @ 10/23/2007 4:43:53 PM

      So what happened the second time around? WHo stole the votes and put Clinton back in?

    • Posted By: freethinkingmama @ 10/23/2007 4:41:45 PM

      Amen to that . Keep voting republican and we will become a Christian Conservative Dictatorship. I love my country and I have many diverse friends and acquaintances of a variety of colors, sexual preferences and spiritual believes. I don't want to live in a Christian Conservative Dictatorship, nor do I want my 3 children and possible grand children to be subjected to their outlandish and sometimes completley ridiculous believe system. What makes them think that their connection to "God" is anymore valuable or important than people who don't believe exactly like they do.

  • Posted By: daltonga1 @ 10/23/2007 4:42:02 PM

    I am a Christian, Veteran, male, age 54 and do not like the direction our great country is heading and where it has gone in the past 10 years. I will vote for Ron Paul

  • Posted By: hair @ 10/23/2007 4:39:59 PM

    We need more political parties...on the right and on the left. And we need a broader spectrum of media that allows different voices and opinions to reach us. Where else in the world nowadays do people not have convenient access to for instance foreign TV channels? Yes in Iran and North-Korea perhaps.

  • Posted By: Lindylou @ 10/23/2007 4:39:49 PM

    I not only think they should have their own party, but also their own planet.

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