The Case Against Women in Combat

Mr. Browne has a significant credibility issue that he needs to overcome. He mentions that the EP-3 that went down over the South China sea was shot down. It was not. It was an accident. Mr. Browne needs to get his facts straight before he enages in public discussions that he is not qualified for.

I hope that this web site will post an opposing view by authors who have written books supporting women in combat. I also hope that readers of this article will read the books of authors who support women in combat. Women in the Line of Fire by Erin Solaro is a contemporary work; Women at War by Rosemarie Skaine and Battle Cries and Lullabies by Linda Grant De Pauw, both 1999 are also excellent reads. Rosemarie Skaine, author. http://www.authorsden.com/rosemarieskaine

I hope that people who read this article will also read other books that support women in combat and I hope this web site will interview one of those authors. _Women in the Line of Fire_ by Erin Solaro is a very recent book on the subject. I also authored _Women at War_ in 1999 and Linda Grand De Pauw authored _
Battle Cries and Lullabies_ in that same year. Rosemarie Skaine, Author

Oh and one more thing.

I personally don't want to go to the frontlines. BUT I think that if a women wants to fight right up on the frontlines it is her right as an American to do so equally alongside the men. Didn't they try the seperate but equal thing before with skin color? That didn't work out so well if I remember right... How rapidly things have changed in the past 100 years, I believe this discussion will be considered ignorant and medeival in another 20 years.

I also believe though that if a women wants to stay at home with the kids, do the soccer mom thing and be there 100% of the time for family exclusively, than that is her choice also. I just think that if military is something that people want to do, then that option should be completely open with no limitations.

There was something I was reading on the comments about women possessing 3 factors. Physical, emotional, and mental strength to handle the stresses of battle. In my short time in the military, I haven't met many men that I believe possess all three either. But I believe as a human being, you get scared but when it comes down to it, you do what you have to do to survive. I know that if I was in combat and someone was firing their little rifle at my head or trying to hurt someone in my company, I wouldn't hesitate to take them out.

I think the trust issue should be knocked out of the problem also in co-ed units that deploy together. If my whole company deployed together, we all know each other. We hang out outside of drill weekends and we all go out together on drill weekends. We know each others families and we know where each other comes from. I would know that the guy sitting next to me had a wife with 6 kids and another on the way. I think knowing each other is what the trust issue is based off of. If you drill with someone continously, then you have a good idea if they will lead successfully or not.

I do know that if I get mobilized and transfered to another unit where I don't know anyone, I wouldn't trust them and I don't expect them to trust me. I think it's more likely in those situations to have an every man for themselves situation because there is no bond. It's just survive this deployment so I can get back to where I'd rather be, with my unit back at home.

I don't think I've heard anything truely dimening towards females in my unit. The closest we get to sexist is when we have to sit through a 4 hour sexual harrassment slideshow. Anything negative I've noticed is always on the individual level. Never is it stating that someone would do poorly because they were male or female.

Women fight as well as men.
Checklist: The militaries of
Israel
the LTTE, Sri Lanka
right/left wing revolutionary groups (in India, at least)

Nonsense! If the men aren't "hard-wired to follow women into danger", then it's the men who are untrustworthy. Don't blame military women for the weaknesses of military men!

"The INNATE skills required to be effective in combat simply aren't there for most women."

You're confusing evolutionary with cultural. Women have been told so long that they can't do things as well as men that it is usually only the exeptional ones who make it. You don't get it. It doesn't MATTER what MOST women can or can't do. If they aren't allowed to try, and respected when they succeed, the last 200 years of this country's ideals have been a sham.

And as for trust, if you let your hind brain get in the way of what you should be aware of, that is YOUR problem, not the woman next to you in the trenches. Trust is a CHOICE. Deal with it. If you can't then YOU don't belong in combat.

He's right about the trust aspect, though, and I sure as hell wouldn't wander into combat with female comrades. The evolutionary factors that have made modern women what they are have not bestowed upon them reasonable upper body strength, quick reflexes and the ability to stay cool under pressure. The WNBA is a a joke, there are very few female pilots, race car drivers, hunters, atheletes that can hold a candle to their male counterparts. The INNATE skills required to be effective in combat simply aren't there for most women.

I dont have a problem with women as a gender, even if the predictable, reactionary response to the comments above by typically hyper-emotional females will be to conclude I somehow hate women, or believe them to be inferior in all ways. Well, you can delude yourself into whatever makes you happy. I love women. But when so many of you are helpless when it comes to simple things like changing a tire, or fixing a computer, and men have to step in, well, it's not that different from having a helpless kid around who can't open the pickle jar. We pity the lack of ability, which translates into whatever ongoing meta-image of that person we already have being affected proportionally. I have male friends that are useless, and i wouldn't want to go into combat with them either, but they only constitute a small fraction of the men i know. i've met maybe 2 females i would trust in combat to do as well as the men. Even if more of them COULD do as well, if we dont trust you to, its moot.

He's right about the trust aspect, though, and I sure as hell wouldn't wander into combat with female comrades. The evolutionary factors that have made modern women what they are have not bestowed upon them reasonable upper body strength, quick reflexes and the ability to stay cool under pressure. The WNBA is a a joke, there are very few female pilots, race car drivers, hunters, atheletes that can hold a candle to their male counterparts. The INNATE skills required to be effective in combat simply aren't there for most women.

I dont have a problem with women as a gender, even if the predictable, reactionary response to the comments above by typically hyper-emotional females will be to conclude I somehow hate women, or believe them to be inferior in all ways. Well, you can delude yourself into whatever makes you happy. I love women. But when so many of you are helpless when it comes to simple things like changing a tire, or fixing a computer, and men have to step in, well, it's not that different from having a helpless kid around who can't open the pickle jar. We pity the lack of ability, which translates into whatever ongoing meta-image of that person we already have being affected proportionally. I have male friends that are useless, and i wouldn't want to go into combat with them either, but they only constitute a small fraction of the men i know. i've met maybe 2 females i would trust in combat to do as well as the men. Even if more of them COULD do as well, if we dont trust you to, its moot.

He's right about the trust aspect, though, and I sure as hell wouldn't wander into combat with female comrades. The evolutionary factors that have made modern women what they are have not bestowed upon them reasonable upper body strength, quick reflexes and the ability to stay cool under pressure. The WNBA is a a joke, there are very few female pilots, race car drivers, hunters, atheletes that can hold a candle to their male counterparts. The INNATE skills required to be effective in combat simply aren't there for most women.

I dont have a problem with women as a gender, even if the predictable, reactionary response to the comments above by typically hyper-emotional females will be to conclude I somehow hate women, or believe them to be inferior in all ways. Well, you can delude yourself into whatever makes you happy. I love women. But when so many of you are helpless when it comes to simple things like changing a tire, or fixing a computer, and men have to step in, well, it's not that different from having a helpless kid around who can't open the pickle jar. We pity the lack of ability, which translates into whatever ongoing meta-image of that person we already have being affected proportionally. I have male friends that are useless, and i wouldn't want to go into combat with them either, but they only constitute a small fraction of the men i know. i've met maybe 2 females i would trust in combat to do as well as the men. Even if more of them COULD do as well, if we dont trust you to, its moot.

He's right about the trust aspect, though, and I sure as hell wouldn't wander into combat with female comrades. The evolutionary factors that have made modern women what they are have not bestowed upon them reasonable upper body strength, quick reflexes and the ability to stay cool under pressure. The WNBA is a a joke, there are very few female pilots, race car drivers, hunters, atheletes that can hold a candle to their male counterparts. The INNATE skills required to be effective in combat simply aren't there for most women.

I dont have a problem with women as a gender, even if the predictable, reactionary response to the comments above by typically hyper-emotional females will be to conclude I somehow hate women, or believe them to be inferior in all ways. Well, you can delude yourself into whatever makes you happy. I love women. But when so many of you are helpless when it comes to simple things like changing a tire, or fixing a computer, and men have to step in, well, it's not that different from having a helpless kid around who can't open the pickle jar. We pity the lack of ability, which translates into whatever ongoing meta-image of that person we already have being affected proportionally. I have male friends that are useless, and i wouldn't want to go into combat with them either, but they only constitute a small fraction of the men i know. i've met maybe 2 females i would trust in combat to do as well as the men. Even if more of them COULD do as well, if we dont trust you to, its moot.

He's right about the trust aspect, though, and I sure as hell wouldn't wander into combat with female comrades. The evolutionary factors that have made modern women what they are have not bestowed upon them reasonable upper body strength, quick reflexes and the ability to stay cool under pressure. The WNBA is a a joke, there are very few female pilots, race car drivers, hunters, atheletes that can hold a candle to their male counterparts. The INNATE skills required to be effective in combat simply aren't there for most women.

I dont have a problem with women as a gender, even if the predictable, reactionary response to the comments above by typically hyper-emotional females will be to conclude I somehow hate women, or believe them to be inferior in all ways. Well, you can delude yourself into whatever makes you happy. I love women. But when so many of you are helpless when it comes to simple things like changing a tire, or fixing a computer, and men have to step in, well, it's not that different from having a helpless kid around who can't open the pickle jar. We pity the lack of ability, which translates into whatever ongoing meta-image of that person we already have being affected proportionally. I have male friends that are useless, and i wouldn't want to go into combat with them either, but they only constitute a small fraction of the men i know. i've met maybe 2 females i would trust in combat to do as well as the men. Even if more of them COULD do as well, if we dont trust you to, its moot.

We can argue all day about whether it is best for the standard to be that 2 men are needed to transport a wounded soldier or 3 and it doesn't change the basic idea. Point of fact ONE soldier would be ideal and I submit to you that in a firefight, if one could do it, then he (or she) would get the job of getting the wounded out of harms way, no matter what the book says. Arguing about what is the lowest standard for an effective soldier is probably not something any of us here can discuss with any authority. Whatever the standards end up being, it is fair that men and women be judged INDIVIDUALLY against those standards, not collectively based on their sex. If you have one standard for men and one for women, then you are wrong. If you have the same standard for women that you have for men and you refuse to allow women to even attempt to reach that standard, then you are wrong. If you allow them the attempt and they succeed, then they are soldiers, and the discussion about putting them in combat is over. They've made it. End. Of. Story.

There has been a systemtic lowering of physical standards for military fitness which started during the politically correct Clinton administration and it was made clear that any resistance to this movement by an officer would stop or impede advancement.. At every level of training, simple tasks were "redefined" to make it possible for average women to perform them. For example, it was always a 2 man task to evacuate a wounded soldier from the front lines. When the majority of women were not strong enough,(yes, I am sure there are anomalies and exceptions), it was redefined to 3 people, the obvious side effect of which is taking on extra shooter off the front line or making the wounded soldier wait longer.) There are dozens of other examples from obstacle courses, to overall fitness and strength, etc. In addition, as pointed out by others women are a tremendous distraction (look at the absurdly high pregnancy rates among enlisted navy personnel on ships). I am by no means a detractor of women, these are simple realities. But, of course they are met with blind rage by the brainwashed PC crowd.

I agree with dmbishop. There are few people (men or women) who are already soldiers when they start basic training. The purpose of basic training is to MAKE you into a soldier. If we're cutting corners on that when they are applied to women, THAT's the problem. Like I said; make the process sane and effective and the issue of women and men in combat is a non-issue.

The military needs to start training women the say way that men are trained. If you believe them to be "inferior" soldiers, it's because they are improperly trained. There needs to no more exceptions when training women. Women are capable of anything, just as men are.

If the military would train women the same way they train men we wouldn't have this problem. Stop making exceptions for women, it's ridiculous and demeaning.

This guy though, this author, will one day be thought of as ignorant. That thought makes me very very happy.

When I was in basic training, there was this very tough, very intelligent, female Drill Sgt. who was assigned to prepare me and the others in my unit for war. She was not in any way physically inferior to any of us. She had thighs like tree trunks, a set of football shoulders and biceps to match. She could throw you over a table when armwrestling and I swear that I remember her height seemed just shy of a first down. She was as tough as any man I've ever known.
When we'd go out on an exercise, she'd sometimes drop in on us late at night to make sure we were still on our toes and to have a quick, discreet encounter with whomever was on guard duty. She was our teacher and den mother and a genuine comfort to many of us who might otherwise be cold and lonesome dead to the open world when out huddled in the darkness. I don't think I would have made it through Basic without her guidance. So I strongly believe women should be allowed in the military.

and btw, there were plenty of people of the time willing to give you "scientific" reasons why blacks shouldn't be integrated. They believed what they were saying, and they could tell you how they arrived at their conclusions. They were also wrong. What makes them right now?