The Ghosts We Think We See

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: Frost845 @ 11/01/2007 2:16:25 AM

    People say all sorts of stupid things constantly. 27 people admitted to killing J.F.K. many many years after the incident. DO YOU BELIEVE THEM!?

  • Posted By: bhavna @ 11/01/2007 2:14:42 AM

    i totally agree with the arguments above...but but but many people even claimed that they saw ghosts with their own eyes or they have experienced a supernatural incident.....so how can we explain this???

  • Posted By: bhavna @ 11/01/2007 2:11:46 AM

    i totally agree with the arguments above...but but but some people even witnessed that they saw ghosts with their own eyes...so how can you explain this???????/

  • Posted By: Frost845 @ 11/01/2007 1:57:17 AM

    A Reply to TranceManiac. You tell me that somthing created everything because thats the only "logical" explanation. Yet you supply no logical thoughts. If creation was "staring at me in the face" I would believe it. Science does not disprove God, science does however disprove the bible. And if you credit your own words at all please answer me one question! WHO CREATED THE CREATOR?

    TranceManiac quote: For everything created there is a Creator

    • Posted By: frodogenic @ 11/01/2007 2:08:05 AM

      No matter which way you cut it, there has to be some sort of starting point--an ultimate Cause. You can't say it was the Big Bang; where did that come from? Why did it bang anyway? If you heard an explosion and I told you it just happened for no reason, you'd call me an idiot. Somewhere along the chain of cause and effect, there has to be that ultimate Cause. We can debate what it is all day long. But things as orderly and beautiful as our universe don't just happen. When you see a beautiful painting, you do not assume that it simply came to be; it is completely obvious that somebody painted it. When you see a gorgeous, aesthetic, balanced, infinitely orderly universe, why would it not make sense to suspect somebody of having made it?

      Science, by the way, doesn't disprove the Bible. The Bible is a matter of history, literature, and the supernatural, none of which science has much of anything to do with. The only science significantly involved in Biblical study is archaeology, which, far from disproving it, has confirmed its historical claims repeatedly.

      As for who created the Creator--he/she/it isn't created. Therefore has no creator. Like I said, at some point there has to be an ultimate Cause. You can't just take it back infinitely; which is what you're forced to do if you're going to explain everything with science (we're back to the question of what caused the Big Bang, what cause the thing that caused the Big Bang, and so on).

  • Posted By: vancecrofoot @ 11/01/2007 12:16:39 AM

    Nice point frodogenic, but remember, failing to prove that something doesn't exist doesn't prove that it exists.

    If spirits and ghosts really existed I believe that nearly everyone would know it. I mean, come on, there are nearly 7 billion people on this planet. Every single day 7 billion people live 7 billion separate lives and yet we hear very little of paranormal activity. Usually when we do it's from someone on the shifty side of the fence. I think the only ones who believe in spirits want to believe it so badly that they wish it to be true.

    • Posted By: frodogenic @ 11/01/2007 1:58:35 AM

      My point wasn't whether spirits and ghosts exist...my point was, the question has nothing to do with science. Science can neither prove nor disprove supernatural phenomena. You have to find different types of evidence, primarily historical and experiential (probably toss in some logic and philosophy). In my opinion, there are a sufficient number of these paranormal reports that we ought to take them very seriously and with some credibility. They're not all from somebody on the shifty side of the fence. And even so, who's to say that those shifty-side people aren't in closer tune with the supernatural than the rest of us logically minded chaps? Not that that's necessarily true, but it's something to think about, at any rate.

  • Posted By: MFL_123 @ 10/29/2007 5:07:56 PM

    There's an 'argument from design' that could be made, too: it's possible that our brains are hard-wired to believe in the spiritual and supernatural, because they were *designed* that way. It's tough to prove or disprove this line of argument. But it's an internally consistent argument.

    • Posted By: cassdenata @ 10/29/2007 6:35:56 PM

      Of course theres the possibility that our brains were designed by a supreme designer, a designer which made one entrance for eating and breathing guaranteeing thousands die from choking each year. Who curses us with a 'now' useless appendix that guarantees that many die of appendicitis. What a cruel designer. Explain why believing in god is more reasonable than unicorns, of which evidence is also nil.

      • Posted By: frodogenic @ 11/01/2007 1:49:23 AM

        Because, my friend, the evidence is NOT nil. What about our equally impractical beliefs in true love, honor, justice, and so forth? What good does any of that do in the merely natural world? Just gets in the way of promoting your own survival, if you're going to be Darwinistic about it. Why do you have the capacity to even think logically about this? What do you need reason for? Animals get along fine without it. If you're going to argue against the existence of God, you're going to need better arguments than your appendix. It obviously did have a use at one point, no matter which way you cut it--God would not have created it without good reason, and we wouldn't have evolved it without good reason.

  • Posted By: mrstombrown @ 10/29/2007 3:22:15 PM

    I think my mind mistakenly lead me to believe I had just read an intelligent well researched article.
    How silly our minds can be!

    • Posted By: lvdancer @ 10/31/2007 5:59:03 PM

      lol ur rite with that! I wouldn'ta thought of that b4 u...

      • Posted By: BrendaEmily @ 11/01/2007 1:49:11 AM

        I have read many excellent opinions here ... and some really silly, stupid, crazy ideas... so here goes my opinion... I believe no one knows what's real and what's not... only because... no one for certain knows all... this i'm 100% shore of... ty.

  • Posted By: aji_889 @ 11/01/2007 1:47:48 AM

    Correction: pardon me for using the term "class" with the error of equivocation in my comment before this. I should have used the term "course" in place of "class" the second time around.

  • Posted By: Person @ 11/01/2007 1:47:12 AM

    Perhaps, this study's findings are meant to help those far too often judged by the mental health profession as having lost their marbles, and in need of psychiatric intervention. The results of this study, according to this article, seem to be, instead, that the human mind is made to do these things. That one is not "abnormal" but rather "normal". That the human mind is meant to do these things.

  • Posted By: taichi-wuchi @ 11/01/2007 1:42:22 AM

    Boo! to you too. There is more to life than physical reality. There is also emotions, concepts, laws, essenses, continuity, beliefs and imagination. From physical reality, we perceive physical "things".
    We see a particular horse and it is a physical entity but there is also the concept horse that is the essense of a horse. It contains the attributes of what we would recognize as a horse. While a physical horse is the product of nature, our concept of a horse is a product of our perception. Through what we peceive, we are able to change reality from raw materials to "things" we create. Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other. This means that nature uses the same rational process to create a horse as we use to create an automobile. Much of the physical world in which we live is a product of our imagination. Without the products of nature, we could not exist. Life is a binary system of physical and metaphysical reality. The ghost in the machine is just as real as is the machine. We need to give credit where credit is due.

  • Posted By: bean59 @ 11/01/2007 1:40:37 AM

    Science does not know much about the brain. It is said we only use a small fraction of our brains. Look how long it took them to realize that people were suffering from depression, when in the past thay just claimed those people were nuts.Many people suffering from depression were given shock treatments. Spirits and many other uneplainable things in this world do exsist. I have had many starnge unexplainable things happen since i was a child. I have my recently deceased father contact me. I was not thinking about him to contact me, it just happened. Most people do think it was just their imaginations at first, but when they get over the shock or i can't believe feeling they realize it did indeed happen. Most people who never had anything unexplainable happen to them do not believe. Only when it happens do they believe.

  • Posted By: cjsimon @ 10/31/2007 10:17:27 PM

    God is so great precisely because, despite his numerous creations, he is concerned with you individually and whether or not you believe. The greatest gift he gave you was not your life, but his life, which he gave up in sacrificial love to bring you to himself. Eternity will not end; it is life on earth that is but a breath in comparison (if life on earth were a penny, eternity would be a million dollar check and beyond). Waisting life here means focusing on that which will eventually be burned and come to nothing, having no lasting value for your eternal life. The life well lived is the one that counts forevermore.

    • Posted By: Brian Leahy @ 10/31/2007 10:25:18 PM

      So frustrating, this board. There is everything from crazy hate-mongering to actual debate. Shoot for one, and you're apt to get the other.

      There is as much proof for the existence of Santa Claus as there is for God you describe (lots of artwork, zillions of books, songs, movies, etc., and abundant anecdotes). More actually; where do all those wrapped presents come from? Yes, I'm sure you can offer a more rational explanation for those, but that just shows what a biased unbeliever you are....

      • Posted By: Brian Leahy @ 10/31/2007 10:38:24 PM

        Another thing:
        Yes, eternity makes the decades of a human life seem insignificant. Yet if we pursue this logically, doesn't it follow that the things we do during our fleeting mortal years are practically meaningless? Especially to an omniscient, immortal creator? Adults routinely overlook the misdeeds and naivety of children - "they're just kids!"

        Yet compared to God, even a 110 year old man is basically a newborn. Why then would God decide our eternal fate based on our clumsy, awkward, flesh-and-blood years?

        I predict your answer will fall along these lines: "It says so in the bible, so I know it's true - just because it makes no sense to us doesn't mean it's wrong."

        And if that's your reply, I rebut as follows: "If you intend to stand by your premise even when it is show to be logically inconsistent, then I'm clearly wasting my time debating you, just as you are wasting your time trying to convince me."

        • Posted By: frodogenic @ 11/01/2007 1:40:20 AM

          That, my friend, is the logical and Biblical answer to your question. I don???t assert that it???s a complete answer; there???s several more tangents I would love to discuss, and I am not omniscient. I don???t comprehend everything the Christian faith teaches about heaven and hell and free will, and I certainly don???t comprehend the mind of God. No man does. That???s why he???s God.

          You will notice I referenced Romans a couple of times. You should read it, particularly the first five chapters. Paul explains all of this much more sagely than I ever could. I also would suggest that you read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, who explains this much more simply than I probably did. They will both satisfy your desire for a solid logical answer to your questions???which I certainly grant are very valid and difficult ones.

          I just hope this was somewhat helpful to you. My apologies for the length of it.

        • Posted By: frodogenic @ 11/01/2007 1:40:01 AM

          What more mercy would you have God grant you? He paid the cost of our rebellion with his life. That is how much he loves us.

          God is perfect and holy; he cannot simply overlook what we do. He loves us too much to overlook what we do. As for why he judges us on ???our clumsy, awkward, flesh-and-blood years??????what else does he have to go on? Do you propose that he instead disregard your free will? That would undermine his whole purpose in creating you! There would be no point in anything you ever did in life; the end would still be the same. Nothing you do, say, think, are, would matter at all. You???d be a divine plaything. A breathing Barbie doll???a mere ornament with zero purpose in existing. What you decide and think matters terribly to God, and he will respect your decisions. It is because he loves you that hell exists, paradoxically enough.

        • Posted By: frodogenic @ 11/01/2007 1:39:40 AM

          But he is in unspeakable grief when we make that demand, because he knows far better than we the consequences of what we???re choosing. Therefore he has gone far out of his way to bring man back to him???that???s what the whole Bible is about! First he gave the law to Israel. Read Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. A more specific set of guidelines for pleasing God is hardly conceivable. But the law didn???t cut it. So God sent the prophets, who spoke his very own words to people, telling them what their rebellion was going to cost them. But that didn???t cut it.

          And so you know what God did to reunite us with him and save us from that eternal condemnation? He utterly humiliated himself. It???s like in the end of chick flicks, where the guy makes a complete fool of himself for the sake of the girl he loves. It???s more degrading than if a human were to climb buck-naked into a cage at the zoo with the rest of the animals. God did exactly that, more than that. God died for us???while we were still in blatant, unrepentant rebellion, no less. (Romans 5:8) God is not just love; he is perfect love. He is so desperate to rescue us from the eternal consequences of our stupid, illogical choices that he let us torture and kill him.

        • Posted By: frodogenic @ 11/01/2007 1:39:19 AM

          But, of course, if we can choose to love God, we can also choose to reject him. This is the risk that God took. As the Bible makes clear, we chose to reject him. ???For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.??? (Romans 3:23). God???BECAUSE he loves us???allows us to make this choice, to which there are consequences.

          If we choose to reject God, he allows it. The consequence is separation from him, because black rebellion and pure perfection cannot coexist. That is the essence of the Christian doctrine of ???hell??????not fire and brimstone, but separation from our Creator, which is exactly what we choose by rebelling against him. God is not vindictive; he is generous and loving. If you demand hell, he will give it to you.

        • Posted By: frodogenic @ 11/01/2007 1:38:57 AM

          Allow me to answer. You don???t have to agree with me. But I hope you will respect me enough to hear me out and consider my argument.

          God does not decide our eternal fate. We do, in the same way that a murderer decides his death sentence. It was man who chose to rebel against God in the beginning, according to the Bible. Later on, it was the Israelites who didn???t keep up their end of the covenant. God, on the other hand, is pure and righteous; you would hardly want to believe in any other kind of God, I???m sure?

          God, besides being pure and righteous, is also love, according to the Bible. Being love, He naturally wants a loving relationship with his creation, man. But in order for there to be any kind of meaningful love between him and us, we have to love freely. You wouldn???t care for an arranged marriage; neither would God. Beings without choice are incapable of love. Ergo, because God is love and desires love, he gave us our free will.

  • Posted By: sherlocckh @ 11/01/2007 1:37:07 AM

    The color spectrum, radio waves, x-rays, interference on electronic devices from the sun, these are all FORMS of energy that cannot be seen and yet they exist...... What will it take for one to think that a "ghost" might be present? Parapsychologists bring in electronic tools that clearly measure changes in the physical world around and within an area of supposed ghostly phenonmenon. What other- than a ghost will explain these changes when ALL other explanations are exhausted? Explanations like open windows, heaters, air conditioners, gas leaks etc.. when those explanations are ruled out at what point does one throw in the towel and say, from a scientific standpoint, there is no explanation for this energy being here and yet there it is. Hence the possibility of ghost could be considered. It's about being open-minded, psychologists and scientists are expected to remain open-minded about possibilities, otherwise the premise for their existence as scientists and psychologists is lost. Scientists to need to remain about minded about any hypothesis that would explain a situation. Refusing to remain open and considering possibilities is a travesty to the study itself.

  • Posted By: cjsimon @ 11/01/2007 1:33:41 AM

    As a little girl living in old seminary housing in Philidelphia while my father earned his degree, each night I went to bed anxiously awaiting the arrival of an old woman who came out of a circle in the wall above my bed. She would lean forward over me and say she had something to show me. I would then dream of past times and places, of women in long dresses and soldiers from the civil war. The dreams were often frightening with people being chased and murdered. My mother said that as a child I suffered night terrors, during which I'd be sitting up in bed with eyes open screaming for her, but unable to see that she was there trying to console me. I didn't mention the old woman while living in Philidelphia. Because my father was in the military, we moved to Mississippi, where my parents bought a house. Each night I went to bed at the new house looking for the old woman to come out of the wall, but she never came. Perplexed, I asked my mother, "Where is the old woman who comes out of the wall? She doesn't come at this house." It was with great relief that I realized that she wasn't here. The night terrors were gone as well.

  • Posted By: TranceManiac @ 11/01/2007 1:33:03 AM

    Frost845 : The tools are staring you in the face.. It's called creation.. For everything created there is a Creator.. If you can't explain where everything came from, it makes perfect sense to me that there was a Creator that created everything you see and know here in this world.. You just don't want to see the obvious answer because you may think it's too simple of an explanation for such a complex designed creation..

  • Posted By: proton @ 11/01/2007 1:31:49 AM

    Sharon Begley writes that skeptics, when given L-Dopa, saw more patterns. Dopamine, aside from "fueling a sense of reward", is also involved with the brain centers that control our ability to move smoothly. These, in turn, are connected to structures that assess our spatial environments (i.e. the patterns and objects around us, including words and faces) and plan how sequences of movements can be carried out in those environments. L-dopa, the precursor to dopamine, is also used to treat Parkinson's disease, to help regulate motor activity. So, It is not conclusive to say that the experiment shows that believers have higher levels of dopamine and therefore are seeing abnormal amounts of patterns (indeed, this could only have been tested if there was a control group, one that neither was intense in belief or skepticism); instead, it points towards another possible hypothesis: are skeptics deficient in assessing their spatial surroundings because they have lower levels of dopamine than the average human and therefore, are not as aware of their environment?

  • Posted By: kawailani @ 11/01/2007 1:26:48 AM

    Supernatural - Paranormal - Positive Suggestion - Certified 5150 - ...I was raised by my Kapunas, whereas I was rasised in the belief of Akua (God) this is a good thing. I am Blackfoot and Choctaw Indian too, whereas I have been taught my tribal ways and I have a great respect for Father Sky and Mother Earth - both have the turtle as peace.
    I have witnessed as many before me in my family visitations, from relatives and/or non-relatives who has departed this plane. Spirits,are not ghost and visa versa.
    I have had this gift since childhood. I have seen an angel before my mother's passing and guess what? Angels do not have wings...It was us that placed wings on the angels for a more angelic acceptance. I have seen my ex-husband's spirit rise and depart in a star-burst, Back to my mother after her passing and she was taken, I placed my hand where she laid and a misty energy danced in and out of my hand, my 20 yr. old nephew started crying, he felt her spirit comfort him. When my fiance passed away I went to his home for the family gathering and the scent of coffee was in the air, (he and I are/were the only coffee drinkers). The family he was adopted into are Jewish. They have witnessed more than you can imagine when I am around, Why? because David is with me. You can agree to dis-agree but I do not think that you have the right to state what is truth or not, if you cannot back your findings.
    Being able to see, smell, touch, and hear is not so unbelievable. A lot of people are not able to witness or they wish not to. I for one do not take the visitations lightly, again as with my faith in God and a believer in Jesus is a personal relationship.
    Seeing patterns, lights, colors and shapes...You bet! Nothing has been set in stone. It never will either. But do not take what we have experienced and still experiencing and demean it, it is not yours to do and it is my relationship that I have with my departed one's, this has nothing to do with dis-respecting God either. And I am certainl;y not "touched" to mistake my minds process of accumlative daily jargon to mistake shapes or other forementioned as spirits.

  • Posted By: vancecrofoot @ 11/01/2007 1:26:32 AM

    True, science can't prove that spirits and ghosts don't exist, but rememeber this: Failing to prove that something doesn't exist doesn't prove that it exists.

    If spirits and ghosts really existed I believe that everyone would know it. I mean, come on, there are nearly 7 billion people on this planet. Every single day 7 billion people live 7 billion separate lives and yet we hear very, very
    little of paranormal activity. Usually when we do it's from someone on the shifty side of the fence. I think the only ones who believe in spirits want to believe it so badly that they wish it to be true.

    And for those of you who talk to dead loved ones, you're dreaming. Dreams can be realistic and horrid, or realistic and wonderful. A human can reach orgasm in a dream which tells me that they can be very true to life.

  • Posted By: sherlocckh @ 11/01/2007 1:23:05 AM

    Religion has nothing to do with ghosts. Ghosts are in fact a scientific phenomenon. There is an energy that continues to exist long after a person is no longer in that location. Energy is what explains the concept of a "ghost". Some people are just more sensative at sensing that energy than others. Hence people see things that others don't. Just because we can't "see" the color spectrum of light doesn't mean it isn't there.

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse