Posted By: foghorn @ 11/09/2007 7:19:09 AM
Comment: Has Mike Rowe seen this?
INDIA
The World’s Worst Job?
India's sewage workers are certainly in the running.
Nov 1, 2007 | Updated: 1:47 p.m. ET Nov 1, 2007
Discuss
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Posted By: rubysmama35 @ 11/07/2007 3:25:34 PM
Comment: Posted By: Anand1972 @ 11/01/2007 5:54:59 PM
Comment: India is a very dirty place and Indians are the most filthy people in the world. India will never progress beyond third world status!
Posted By: MikeWilson @ 11/06/2007 06:02:16
Comment: Anand .. While You enjoy Yourself in a country ( whichever rathole who have crawled into ) .. Go suck Your dad's *** while You are at it ... Or dont call yourself Anand anymore - Better - Cockshit cokbreath ...People like You should be shot and fed with their own excreta ...Like the prisoners in the Gulf War ....
Whoa!! Where did all THAT come from? -
Posted By: silotwo @ 11/06/2007 10:45:43 PM
Comment: I agree that there are many Indians who are straight forward, open, honest, and very hard working. I also believe this to be true in any nation. To point to Americans in an attempt to discount or deny the conditions that the majority of Indians are forced to endure does not change the truth. I heard proud stories about the foreign investment in manufacturing that brought billions of dollars to India in just three weeks. I saw with my own eyes that India is in a state of development, large quantities of heavy trucks and road building equipment, vacant and parked along the side of yet to be completed roadways. I also watched Indians working on bamboo scaffolding four stories off the ground while barefoot. While being driven to a business lunch I observed more than a few people sleeping on pavement and bathing in public with only a pitcher of water. When we arrived for lunch and drove through a gate, the opulence and luxury that was suddenly around us astounded me. Throughout lunch my hosts behaved with the utmost sense of entitlement, nothing was to their satisfaction and they seemed to go of their way to demonstrate to me that their every demand would be met. I commented to my hosts about the road equipment that I had seen and asked them why more people weren't working on the construction projects. Their quoted response was, "Indians are lazy people and do not want to work, they are content to just get by each day". Remember that these are Indians talking about other Indians. I felt that Indians were slaves to other Indians and expressed my opinion to yet another well-educated Indian manager. He explained it to me like this, "if you are born into a family that is served, you will always be served and never serve, if you are born into a family that serves, you will always serve and never be served". This same manager told me "human life here has no value, only the rupee has value". I believed him because investment in physical infrastructure was as obvious as the lack of investment for a workers safety, as evidenced by the barefoot workers on the bamboo scaffolding. I suppose developing roads will attract more foreign dollars while workers injured or dying will have no impact. You state that Indian society is so complex that it takes ages to understand it. I agree yet I must ask if reaching such an understanding will provide Rakesh with a safer work environment and a better quality of life? You say that Western countries live at the expense of flesh from other countries while you seem to deny that some Indians live at the expense of the flesh of other Indians. I believe that we all do disservice when we justify and rationalize the most outrageous sort of nonsense in order to accept the unacceptable. Similar to the alcoholic who points to the heroin addict as having a worse problem in order to perpetuate the denial of his own problem. Please know that for me this not about any nation being better or worse than another nation.
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/07/2007 10:18:45
Comment: You say that this is not about any nation being better than another. But Indians can clearly learn from the American example.
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/07/2007 10:08:51
Comment: Excellent comment.
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/06/2007 9:03:46 PM
Comment: You are bringing all the absolute shittity topics to the fore and if I bring Iraq you are questioning it. You must be truly confused Desi who knows nothing. I understand your limbo status and your observations and comments clearly depict that the shallowness of your knowledge about world things and your surroundings. I knew you must be an ABCD noticing your bragging about Americans of Indian descent. Why do you expose yourself and your lack of knowledge in a public forums like this. Go get some education. I pity you. I do not like to waste my valuable time on this absolute BS and with with a complete Idiot. You may not have stuff to do (as many others in US) and argue but I am no way interested in such a crappy comments from people like you. People like you who are second to everyone has no place to comment about such a great and wonderful country like India. You are a disgrace to our entire Indian community if you are 100%, 50% or 1% Indian. We all Indians pay condolences to your pathetic state
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/07/2007 10:11:01
Comment: myPoint - stick to the issues. India's work conditions and discrimination against the poor. Have you run out of substantive responses?
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Posted By: wanoushka1 @ 11/06/2007 5:27:35 PM
Comment: its 2007. why do they still have this caste system in India? I cannot believe these people are subjected to working in such terrible conditions. Its just awful.
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Posted By: wanoushka1 @ 11/06/2007 5:25:47 PM
Comment: It is 2007. Why oh why do the Indians still have this stupid cast system. I cannot believe that these people are working in the sewers. It's just awful.
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Posted By: MikeWilson @ 11/06/2007 6:04:14 AM
Comment: Anand - Go suck Your Dad'd *** - cockbreath
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Posted By: sooner @ 11/06/2007 4:43:17 AM
Comment: My heart goes out to the man who lied to the UN, resulting in 10s of thousands of Iraqi deaths, 4000 American lives, torture of innocent people with the wrong last name, and absolved people who murderered innocent Iraqis. And I say to the American people - If you have human hearts, read this story and act!
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/06/2007 19:51:33
Comment: What does Bush have to do with this story? It is about Indian sewers, not Iraq.
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Posted By: sooner @ 11/06/2007 4:38:34 AM
Comment: I guess lying to the UN, causing the deaths of 10s of thousands of Iraqis and 4000 American lives, torturing innocent people who have the wrong last names, absolving americans who murdered innocent Iraqis is a job description that was not in consideration.
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Posted By: bohdansz @ 11/06/2007 3:25:09 AM
Comment: My heart goes to these unfortunate workers! And I say to the Buffets, Gateses and Slims, and other such billionaires: the ball is in your court! If you also have human hearts, read this story and act!
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/06/2007 09:56:36
Comment: Thanks for the kind words. Yes, the ball is partially in their court. They can choose to help develop or not develop their own wealth and their country's progress and advancement. Many agree - they are wise and know what is best for their country and their own and act accordingly
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/06/2007 07:47:40
Comment: Yes, the ball is partially in their court to choose between - Development or No Development. But they are very wise and know what is best for their own sake and their country
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/05/2007 11:17:12 PM
Comment: If India has to develop they should be ruthless and slaughter animals like western countries do and talk "animal cruelty" blah blah blah.
India should be shameless by the fact that like many western countries they should import talent (Doctors, Engineers to construct highways etc, Programmers) and make great strides instead of helping other countries by exporting their talented people. I am sympathetic to US workers as many lost jobs to hard-working, less greedy (by taking less salaries) Indian workers. I am also saddened by the fact that Americans can get jobs only where English is the main language.
I am not advocating fake resumes but one thing I do not understand - you need talent or resume? Hiring managers are not deaf and blind to hire them just by looking at the resume and not by the knowledge. Those managers, even if they recruit people with that credentials, are not obligated to keep them if they are not upto the mark. Indians are fools that they pay all the taxes (Medicare, Social Security etc) eventhough they know they are paying them for the disgruntled people like some of the commentators despite knowing the fact they do not enjoy or get to enjoy those benefits unless they get Green Card (which is a herculean task) and they decided to settle here (only few Indians opt to live here despite getting all the permanent status etc). What do you call those Indians? Fools? Altruists? Back-stabbers? you name it. It is so ironic and disgusting by the fact that Indians come here with so much of trouble and decide to go back once their sons or daughters come to 5th or 6th grade. It is so ridiculous that they go back for the benefit of their children (to avoid western excitements - gun shootings, drugs, pre-marital sex etc) denying all those to their children and wealth that they can build here.
Looking at all these I am realizing India can not reach the level of USA in the near future due to the moral, ethical and family values. I agree partially with you my fellow commentators!!!!!!!!-
Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/06/2007 14:07:58
Comment: Speaking of animal cruelty, I have seen plenty of trucks in India with chickens hanging by their legs on long poles while still alive. I have seen many Indians beating dogs with sticks.
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/06/2007 17:49:54
Comment: You talk about animal cruelty and slaughter animals for daily living. You talk about human rights, you violate them. You talk about killings in countries and you promote them (eg. in Iraq, Afghanistan etc). You divide the countries by any manner you can. Simply saying you live off other people. You pollute the whole world by your luxuries and talk non-sense when it comes to other countries. You will go any extent to get gas and daily supplies from China. You basically live entirely on others. If you have seen Indians beating dogs then what do you say about Dog fights here? Atleast Indians let the animals live but you? Kill them if they are not adopted. You keep them in your house like in a cage. You put the leash on all the time. You neuter them. YOu kill animals (in thousands) everyday to fill your belly. You kill people to get oil.
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/07/2007 13:27:30
Comment: I don't kill animals in the thousands. Today I only contributed to the death of a cow and a turkey. Maybe later a chicken. But thousands?
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/06/2007 20:00:52
Comment: You say America lives entirely on others? That is just silly... If that were so, then where does the money come from? Wealth is created in America and then some of it makes its way to China. China's standard of living is growing because of America. And India's will grow even more, once its infrastructure improves.
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/06/2007 13:07:21
Comment: No Indian can lecture Americans on morals or ethics. Indians do not pay taxes, they exploit the poor, they throw trash in the streets. Many, but by no means all, Indians cheat on their wives in brothels, and then spread HIV to them. Why do you think there is an explosion of sexually transmitted disease in India? Homosexuals in India are routinely pressured into marrying women, whom they cheat on with other men. The seedy underbelly of Indian society is never acknowledged. Indians have a tendency to just play dumb and pretend it doesn't exist. Go to some of the clubs in India, and you will see people having sex and throwing their dirty condoms right there on the floor! It is ridiculous that police issued a warrant for Richard Gere in Bombay! Why don't they go after the pimps who are subjecting tens of thousands of young indian girls to sexual slavery every day???
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/06/2007 16:50:23
Comment: Oh! Really. Ethics?? Americans? Don't talk trash man. What percentage of Americans pay taxes? What percent cheat on taxes? Exploitation is everywhere in your so called "our" country. You should be ashamed of yourself by having a name "shankardada". Cheating by husbands in India only? Cheating is much more common in Western countries than in India. Your dad (if he is from India) cheated on your mother? Did you do? I haven't seen many cases. STDs are due to the lack of education. Your so called great country blown the proportion of HIV cases in India that those numbers turned out to be like "Iraq having WMDs". We can explain either an un-educated or fully educated but not a mean and half-educated. Don't teach anyone here about clubs in India. Look at in your backyard in US. There are bunch of ....Prostituation is not only in India if you open your eyes. Ateleast, prostitution in India is due to poverty but Prostitution in USA is for? Go to any downtown in any twon or city in US. You will realize you are playing dumb and do not have guts to admit. In all my arguments I am not denying facts but making you realize they exist everywhere. You may be one of those backstabbers in the history of a great country (India). Don't blame India. Think straight and be sober
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/06/2007 19:56:58
Comment: You are right about cheating being more common in Western countries, at least on the part of women. I think men in India probably cheat nearly as frequently as men in America. But one would never know because Indians sweep such things under the rug.
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/06/2007 19:47:27
Comment: Backstabber, or Devil's advocate? India won't get better by pretending to be great. Indians seem to feel morally superior to Americans, but in reality, conditions in India do not support such statements. Indians love to make themselves feel better by saying, "we may not be as rich, but Americans have dirty minds and filthy morals." Sorry to say, but Indians are poorer, AND have dirtier minds! Americans are kinder to their fellow man, more generous in donations and aid to the rest of the world, and more willing to uphold the law. In India, even if you want to make a donation to build a school or hospital, you must first bribe the sleeze-bag local politician. In India, you don't pay taxes, you pay the tax collector. In India, people preach morality while exploiting the poor (that's what this article is all about). America is the greatest nation on earth, in terms of GDP, opportunity, acceptance of minorties, personal liberty, fairness, and rule of law. Is America perfect? NO. Of course not. Americans strive for growth and self improvement. It is easy to accuse Americans of exploitation of other peoples. Any superpower will get its way more often than not. But honestly, what other superpower in the history of man has been as fair as the U.S.? Maybe the Soviets in the latter 20th century? Maybe the Germans in the early 20th century? Maybe the British in the latter 19th century? Maybe the French in the early 19th century? Compare the U.S. with these other superpowers and you will see what an improvement our country is. Americans have made foreign policy blunders, but our politicians are held to account and eventually right their ships, as we are currently trying to do in Iraq, with or without Bush. India has potential, but Indians need to change a lot of their own mindset first. It can start by giving poor Rakesh some self protection equipment.
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/05/2007 11:16:57 PM
Comment: Indians are the most straight forward, open and honest. They say what is in their mind. Unlike Americans they lack the tact or skill to talk or act diabolical. Unfortunately, Indians have to work so hard ,as the article pointed out, as they are poor and they only have to think about their livelihood instead of thinking about luxuries, drugs or unconventional sex etc. These dirty Indians work like dogs in US (and India) since they are slaves to their own good work ethics and sincerety. These so called filthy Indians are so emotionally attached to their families that they do not leave their parents on their own ,when they are in need of support, and enjoy with living partner (strange concept to Indians). Also Indians do not know how enjoy as you can see that they are stick to only one partner with divorce rate being so low. I know Indians, unlike people from other rich nations, eat to live (as opposed to live to eat). As you can see in the picture majority of the Indians are so thin as eating is not their primary goal they can not compete with the developed countries in terms of obesity etc. They are so naive that they think only about work, earn money to feed the families and not about enjoying themselves with drugs, booze, sex (conventional and unconventional). How can anyone agree that Indian can reach the status of developed countries? Most Indians can speak only TWO or more languages, what a shame!!!
Based on my fellow commentators remarks, it seems Indians have one more great quality - i.e. make the rest of the world fools by exaggerations. If one person can be fooled one time that is fine but if 100 people can be fooled 100 times then it is not called fake or exaggeration - it is called truth. I do not know if "silotwo" is an American/Indian/Indian born American but I can say this - Indian society is so complex it takes ages to understand. If you think you know everything about India by living for 1 or few years then you are fooling yourself.
India should develop a lot - in the sense - they should stop disrespecting fellow Indians rather they should follow the foot-steps of Western countries where they live at the expense of flesh from other country people.-
Posted By: silotwo @ 11/06/2007 22:33:27
Comment: I agree that there are many Indians who are straight forward, open, honest, and very hard working. I also believe this to be true in any nation. To point to Americans in an attempt to discount or deny the conditions that the majority of Indians are forced to endure does not change the truth. I heard proud stories about the foreign investment in manufacturing that brought billions of dollars to India in just three weeks. I saw with my own eyes that India is in a state of development, large quantities of heavy trucks and road building equipment, vacant and parked along the side of yet to be completed roadways. I also watched Indians working on bamboo scaffolding four stories off the ground while barefoot. While being driven to a business lunch I observed more than a few people sleeping on pavement and bathing in public with only a pitcher of water. When we arrived for lunch and drove through a gate, the opulence and luxury that was suddenly around us astounded me. Throughout lunch my hosts behaved with the utmost sense of entitlement, nothing was to their satisfaction and they seemed to go of their way to demonstrate to me that their every demand would be met. I commented to my hosts about the road equipment that I had seen and asked them why more people weren't working on the construction projects. Their quoted response was, "Indians are lazy people and do not want to work, they are content to just get by each day". Remember that these are Indians talking about other Indians. I felt that Indians were slaves to other Indians and expressed my opinion to yet another well-educated Indian manager. He explained it to me like this, "if you are born into a family that is served, you will always be served and never serve, if you are born into a family that serves, you will always serve and never be served". This same manager told me "human life here has no value, only the rupee has value". I believed him because investment in physical infrastructure was as obvious as the lack of investment for a workers safety, as evidenced by the barefoot workers on the bamboo scaffolding. I suppose developing roads will attract more foreign dollars while workers injured or dying will have no impact. You state that Indian society is so complex that it takes ages to understand it. I agree yet I must ask if reaching such an understanding will provide Rakesh with a safer work environment and a better quality of life? You say that Western countries live at the expense of flesh from other countries while you seem to deny that some Indians live at the expense of the flesh of other Indians. I believe that we all do disservice when we justify and rationalize the most outrageous sort of nonsense in order to accept the unacceptable. Similar to the alcoholic who points to the heroin addict as having a worse problem in order to perpetuate the denial of his own problem. Please know that for me this not about any nation being better or worse than another nation.
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Posted By: silotwo @ 11/05/2007 9:46:51 PM
Comment: Having just returned from Delhi, Kolkata, and Hyderabad I can honestly say that my senses have yet to recover. Photographs, print, documentaries, none of these alone or together have ever impacted me to one degree as did personally witnessing the activity of life there. I had the opportunity to deal with business owners and their managers. I was shocked to hear justifications and obvious denials from even the younger 20 to 30 year olds. I did not get into the politics, religions, or history. For me it was simple. People, one person to another, rendering the most dispicable treatment and disrespect to another human being. I was told by a young manager, "you need to get over this and accept it, it has always been and will always be this way". As if "it" was devoid of any personal responsibility for contributing to the circumstances and conditions I had questioned. This is nothing more than my opinion regarding my own personal experience. One thing is certain, I am now even more conscious of my own behavior towards others in my own country than I was before. Poverty, suffering, and ignorance have no geographical bounds.
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Posted By: silotwo @ 11/05/2007 9:39:28 PM
Comment: Having just returned from Delhi, Kolkata, and Hyderabad I can honestly say that my senses have yet to recover. Photographs, print, documentaries, none of these alone or together have ever impacted me to one degree as did personally witnessing the activity of life there. I had the opportunity to deal with business owners as well as their managers. I was shocked to hear justifications and obvious denials from even the younger 20 to 30 year olds. I did not get into the politics, religions, or history. For me it was simple. People, one person to another, rendering the most dispicable treatment and disrespect to another human being, this still has me sleepless most nights. Yet as I was told by a young manager, "you need to get over this and accept it, it has always been and will always be this way". As if "it" was devoid of any personal responsibility for contributing to the circumstances and conditions I had questioned. This is nothing more than my opionion regarding my own personal experience.
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Posted By: bepositive @ 11/05/2007 6:03:00 PM
Comment: Please, respect the sentiments of others also. Agree, all country has its own good and bad. We are seeing people at the age of 70 working in america or age of 80 left to live on their own. We can feel that India is progressing, but not as fast as other wester countries did.
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Posted By: jilanias @ 11/05/2007 12:46:52 PM
Comment: Thank you for this article. India has had an extremely fake, fluffed up, and imaginary image in front of the whole world. I must say their marketing, media, entertainment, and people are very positive and optimistic about their country. While their pride is definitely well deserved, you will be shocked to know that the hype of India and its people is the vivid imaginary work of some very clever Indian businessmen in the private sector. They have strategically sought out to target the core heart and soul of western economics by saying "we can do it for cheap". Their successful dog and pony shows all over the world has lead the world to believe that they are all that. Under these false pretenses and more the rupee has flourished and so has the property value in India. I do truly admire that so much was accomplished all under a facade of lies and exaggerations. Lately because of articles like this, the truth about India is slowly starting to emerge. Even Indian Americans will not deny that outsourced customer service really sucks. Life in India is filled with poverty, injustice, corruption, and so many more shocking facts which are still yet to pop up. Almost every Indian I know has a fake resume, and they are in this country working using fake credentials. There are underground training organizations in the US as we speak that are helping, training, and placing Indians in high paying jobs all under false resumes, certificates, and credentials. I have proof. The media needs to get busy because this is a huge story. Everyone is riding and taking advantage of this huge wave that India is this almost super power and that its people are the most educated and qualified. Please open your eyes America, because this kid from the city is a dirty old fox playing us all.
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Posted By: grand_inquisitor @ 11/05/2007 16:58:45
Comment: I concur jilanias. Its all hype for much needed American $.
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/06/2007 14:35:59
Comment: Jilanias, all first-tier customer service sucks, whether it is sourced in India or Harlem. They just read off of a computer algorithm. Duh. Americans are no fools to seek out unqualified employees from abroad. And if they hire an Indian that can't do the job, which is uncommon, then they can fire them. An Indian has much more to lose in such a scenario than an American. This is generally doesn't happen, as Americans of Indian descent are amongst the most highly trained and well educated and highest wage-earning groups in the country. Ever seen an Indian ghetto in America? No? Ever seen an Indian physician/engineer/computer scientist? Yes? My point exactly.
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Posted By: jilanias @ 11/05/2007 12:46:42 PM
Comment: Thank you for this article. India has had an extremely fake, fluffed up, and imaginary image in front of the whole world. I must say their marketing, media, entertainment, and people are very positive and optimistic about their country. While their pride is definitely well deserved, you will be shocked to know that the hype of India and its people is the vivid imaginary work of some very clever Indian businessmen in the private sector. They have strategically sought out to target the core heart and soul of western economics by saying "we can do it for cheap". Their successful dog and pony shows all over the world has lead the world to believe that they are all that. Under these false pretenses and more the rupee has flourished and so has the property value in India. I do truly admire that so much was accomplished all under a facade of lies and exaggerations. Lately because of articles like this, the truth about India is slowly starting to emerge. Even Indian Americans will not deny that outsourced customer service really sucks. Life in India is filled with poverty, injustice, corruption, and so many more shocking facts which are still yet to pop up. Almost every Indian I know has a fake resume, and they are in this country working using fake credentials. There are underground training organizations in the US as we speak that are helping, training, and placing Indians in high paying jobs all under false resumes, certificates, and credentials. I have proof. The media needs to get busy because this is a huge story. Everyone is riding and taking advantage of this huge wave that India is this almost super power and that its people are the most educated and qualified. Please open your eyes America, because this kid from the city is a dirty old fox playing us all.
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Posted By: FqtTraveler @ 11/05/2007 10:30:20 AM
Comment: I am sorry for the ignorance of some posters here. India is both the most beautiful and at the same time the most ugly of any country in the world. It is not the only country whose sewers do not live up to American standards. Americans wake up and count your blessings. You denigrate others who are behind in their progress, and vilify the people of other countries. I can't believe someone would actually bring politics into this discussion. What a despicable low class comment! If you have ever traveled to other countries, you will find many countries have this problem with their sewers and therefore people have to clear them out to keep them flowing. You notice they do not have sewer treatment facilities either, but allow the raw sewage to flow into the streets and rivers. Instead of giving billions of dollars in aid, those countries who provide this aid, mainly the USA should send engineers to build modern facilities for these countries. Then the money would not go to line the pockets of corrupt politicians. The Indian people are some of the most humble, courageous and wonderful people in the world, they have lived with these conditions forever. If you were born under these conditions you would not know that there is any other way until someone shows you and helps you fix the problem. They live on the streets on cots with card board to shelter them, they work in the same professions their parents worked in forever. The laundry is done on a special street and the laundryworkers wash, spread the laundry to dry on sidewalks and roof tops, then fold it neatly and wrap it in newspaper. Do we do our laundry that way? No, we have washers and dryers and modern cleaners. Do not be so quick to criticize others for their culture. Where they are, we once were. India is changing, but it is a slow process to educate that many people and to upgrade facilities that have been in use for decades. All of you who criticize should go there and see for yourselves the contrasts. India is a beautiful country, but millions pour into the cities to find work for a season and then depart to the countryside when the season is over. The cities cannot service these seasonal workers who raise their population by so many, these people are happy to find work of any kind. Would you rather see them starve? Is starving more palatable to your sensitivity than working in a sewer? This man loves his family enough to sacrifice for them and provide food so that they can live.
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Posted By: edfeeney @ 11/04/2007 11:08:12 PM
Comment: I honestly believe that this would be an appropriate punishment for all corrupt republicans. For a Party thats been wallowing in the sewe for some time I think this occupation ensures that we wouldn't have to use that term figurativly anymore.
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Posted By: davidkehar @ 11/04/2007 8:39:10 PM
Comment: This Comment for Shankar and People who think like him. Caste System was built was not discriminate others. What you think living in the West or North American make u powerful or invinsible? West has its own kind of Caste System. Go and find jobs in the West or North America. First Preference is always given to WHITES. What kind of discrimination is that? Please tell me? Business caste marries business caste, warrior caste marries warrior caste, brahmin marries brahmins which brings more good offspring born through them. This is no joke but facts. Did you ever read Science Subject? i think not? TEll me Why Jews marry Jews ? Why Muslims Marry Muslims? People will say it is because of same religion .You know it is totally false propangda.India caste system was also based on religion . Vedic Hindu Religion. ? People will put blames on Hindu caste system of doing Discrimination and racism with Dalits. What a Joke?
Everyone in this world is racist in one way or other. White Christians people in America treated Black people as Dalits also. Both Whites people and blacks people were Christians. What u call it? Jews treat everyone in the world as Genitals as they are only chosen people? Well some will say this is racist way of putting other races and religions down. Muslims think they are given the authority to change whole world into muslim and they consider Hindu, Sikh, Buddhists infidels? What u will say that? Caste discrimination or religion discrimination? India made caste system so India never become unstable in the world like your Iraq or Pakistan. Hindu religion is the oldest religion of the world and caste system was made so Indian people never became confused of knowing of their duties after they are born and raised. India is the most peaceful country in the world and still today . Indians never want to conquer any country . Think if whole indians become soldiers then who will take care of business? And if whole Indians start doing business then who will be there to defend India from Other countries? Indian caste system is the best system in the world no matter others what others have to say. India has given so many things to this world. I think Caste System was right governing system made for India as India was so big and not easy to control. Now in 21 century, we see America as perfect example of no discrimination on basis of castes but Check your America properly. WHITES are still the majority in Power and so don;t talk Ramayan or Geeta here if you haven't seen the World properly. Racism is everywhere in the world stop blaming Indian Caste System. Don't forget What Britishers did in South Africa and India. Please. I think i have to make u remember old days. -
Posted By: davidkehar @ 11/04/2007 7:40:33 PM
Comment: To all Who allways talk about
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/04/2007 5:40:55 PM
Comment: "mypoint" made a commentary on the purpose of caste - He says that the purpose of caste and "Gothras" is to prevent intermarriage of blood relatives. That is a joke. More Indians marry their cousins or uncles than in any society in the West. In fact it is quite normal, though there are some bizzare rules governing it (e.g. you can marry your mother's brother's offspring, but not your mother's sister's offspring). Caste today in India functions simply as a system of social heirarchy. Nothing more, nothing less. It is, or should be, a gross embarrassment to all Indians. Unfortunately, you would be hard-pressed to find a Bramhin in India who is not "proud" of their caste...
The bottom-line regarding the poor kids and castes in India is that the wealthy exploit them. They treat them like animals. They make them shovel crap without proper safety equipment. The poor uneducated Indian families don't know better. But what is the excuse for a well educated Indian man to exploit his fellow man, keep him from an education, and enslave him?
Perhaps the example of the Naxalites is poor one. But the point still stands.
Lastly, I did not say that India cannot reach the status of the USA. I only said that it would take a LOOOOOOONG time. But when you hear Donald Trump and the rest of the US media telling stories of how India will soon somehow surpass our country, it is truly laughable. Our American media should be more even-handed in its coverage of India.-
Posted By: myPoint @ 11/04/2007 20:27:14
Comment: I am not a pundit to explain why the rules about marriage within the families exist. Indian history is so ancient one needs to have a very thorough knowledge (it may appear we know everything but we may have to agree that we know nothing) about Indian history. My friend has to realize it is not only the Indian people who marry within their relations. There is another religion that follows the same but little differently. There may have been reasons.
My friend needs to realize not all the upper caste people are rich and not all the lower caste people are poor. So you may have to stop the correlation between poor and caste. You may also have to note that nobody is enslaving other. It is their own choice that is enslaving them. They do not want to send their children to school because they do not want to loose the income. Some states in India made the school compulsory for all. Government provides books, soaps etc to poor kids every year. Where do they end up? Guess what - in the market. Do you say that it is exploitation? You have to address the root problem. You have to change the mindset of the people. What is the use in blaming people who take drugs? Stop the source. Everywhere in the world, there are people who like to exploit others if given a chance.
One should know the reality before commenting on castes. In one state in south, people from "Kamma" caste feel proud of themselves eventhough they come under lower caste society. They dominate movies, politics etc because they are rich. Their caste comes under "sudra" category (meaning the lower category in the strata) but they dominate other upper castes. So, rich/poor and caste do not have any relation.
Unfortunately, in India there are more preachers than followers. My friend needs to understand that discrimination exists in every country by one way or the other (caste, gender, color, race etc). Show me one place where it doesn't exist
Do not understand why the example about Naxalism is poor. Naxalism has no meaning these days. It originated with one view and the path they have taken now is different. They blow bridges, blow roads, stop all the development if Govt. tries to build bridges or develop under-developed areas. It is not anti-rich. It is anti-poor because ultimately it is the poor who is going to suffer if they have no hospitals, roads etc
I agree that India takes a long time to reach the level of USA. Why compare with USA? Infact, many Indians do not like to reach the level of USA in some aspects. India did not borrow people for the skilled jobs from other countries. One needs to realize this: Building wealth on $100 is more easier than building on nothing. Donald Trump and others with their enterprenurial experience may have said India can surpass USA interms of economic growth.
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/04/2007 12:07:42 PM
Comment: My fellow member "Shankardada2 " commented that India cannot reach the status of USA. One shuold understand that when did USA get independance? When did India get? What was the population and area of USA and India when they got independance? How can any system cater to the needs of exploding population? As this commentator pointed "poor are becoming naxalites". Yes, I agree to some extent. I came from a very tiny village in the forests and knew better about these than most. Once upon a time, Naxalism used to be revered by the poor. But now - these so called naxalites are not waging war to protect the poor but to make millions of rupees by extortion. If you go to any rural village you will know that in the disguise of naxalism many people have amassed so much of wealth. Naxalism has become a farce. This commentator also added, Indian can not clean-up its own crap" - In India if you go to any town or village you will notice people throwing garbage etc on the roads as if they do not belong to them and in the next minute walk on the same roads and complain that they are dirty.
Another commentator pointed that "Who cares" for these things. Yes, we have so many people like these in India. There is one section of our secular community which doesn't care about the welfare of their own country but their religion and keep producing offspring as if there is no tomorrow. -
Posted By: myPoint @ 11/04/2007 12:07:26 PM
Comment: Yes, I understand the plight of the poor kids. Who is to blame for it? The society? The Government? The master? None of those. It is the parents who are to be blamed for (given the reasons in my comment before). When government is providing all it can why should any parent send children as someone's servant? I am not advocating hurting anyone's liberties or freedom but am just trying to clear why these things are happening. Despite making child labor and slavery illegal and agains the law these things are still happening because of the greed of parents and masters. You will always find people to take advantage of others given the opportunity. So you need to address the root causes first
Caste system and marriages: Yes, the caste system demarcates the communities based on several aspects. If you take any (99%) Indian family you can trace back the roots to several (10-20) generations without any trouble (unlike in the West) and you can confidently say that you are from the same community for generations. It was done due to several reasons. Over a period of generations there is every likelihood that you won't know how a person is related to you even if you know he/she is from your caste/family if you do not have a caste system. But, the beauty of Indian system is that you can easily tell whether a person is your brother, sister, aunt or whoever. You do not end up marrying your sister by this arrangement. Take west for example: You do not know who you are marrying to unless you trace the roots (which is almost impossible in my observation). Another reason the system works is that you know the medical history and genetics of each family or caste if you marry within that group. You may already know, since you married to an Indian, that before marriage boy's and girl's families verify the backgrounds to each family and verify "Gothras" in order to see if they are related by blood in any manner.
I am not saying people should be descriminated on Caste basis but the system should exist for several reasons. I think every country is divided into groups based on one ceriterion or the other (caste system in India and in western countries by different denominations in their own religion for example). -
Posted By: Aeremus @ 11/04/2007 10:03:38 AM
Comment: While it is good that the Indian government has done many things in order to integrate its society, this problem is not going to go away for at least another generation, as it is society, and its members, that can make this possible in a real and impactful way. Sure enough, anybody with the desire and the drive, which is not something you inherit but something that has to come with the right environmental conditions, can prosper and make something out their lives, but this is usually an exception rather than the rule.
Real change is not going to happen until all people realize that keeping its own members of its society ignorant and uneducated is counterproductive to the long term goals of the nation, but that is not an easy thing to change in people, especially when their family backgrounds have allowed this for many generations.
One can not forget that in a country where the population is so large that survival often comes at the expense of someone else's the value of live and therefore the value of people is very different than to most of us in the west. People working in sewers is just one of many many problems that exist, with illegal child labor being by far the largest and most impactful problem. As children ages 6 and up are forced to work at the expense of education it means that a whole NEW generation of people are being left behind before they even start. That practice is not only a great detriment to the future of the country, but it has ramications that extend for DECADES TO COME. As long as their own people allow this to happen with impunity this problem will persist and will keep India from hitting economic critical mass. Sure enough, with a populaton of 1.2 billion it also means that about 400 million Indians have great opportunity, a population that in itself is greater than that of any industrialized country, so that is the only momentum they really have. But as the masses are left behind, the societal problems the country faces are also going to esclate and become more acute. This is perhaps the main reason why the Indian government takes some action towards solving these problems, but I am afraid that it is too little, and too late. -
Posted By: myPoint @ 11/04/2007 9:24:07 AM
Comment: makemebarf , you need more education
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Posted By: makemebarf @ 11/04/2007 8:24:00 AM
Comment: India. Filthy nasty dirty smelly awful hellhole on earth. The place where people bathe in the filthy river with goats. Hell on earth. This does not surprise me at all because the whole country is a nasty smelly wasteland. Makes me want to vomit just thinking of this muck filled putrid country.
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Posted By: grand_inquisitor @ 11/05/2007 16:57:12
Comment: I second makemebarf and jilanias. I visited Chennai and Hyderabad recently. The smog levels and filth are 5 times worse than Houston or LA.
And my job was not taken over by "intelligent" or should i say "mediocre fudging up his resume" indian. jilanias is right ! Most of them cook their resume. They have "0" innovative skills. -
Posted By: My view @ 11/04/2007 21:03:00
Comment: Makemebarf, I think you lost your job because of one of the intellegent Indian or the other fact should be that you never walked out of whatever town you are. Get yourself more educated...
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Posted By: toomuchjava @ 11/03/2007 7:10:24 PM
Comment: Thank you, mypoint for clarifying those things for me. Yes, I do understand about the government's help in terms of admissions to colleges, etc, and that truly is progress. But I still believe that the caste system is alive and well due to the continuation of arranged marriages, where no one will marry beneath their financial status. Yes, there are "love" marriages, but the pressure from families to marry at or above their families wealth continues. I am tremendously bothered by the plight of the poor house servants, and was almost kicked out of someones home when I expressed concern about their child servant. The family complained that this boy sometimes sneaks and watches videos. They were really upset about this, and I pointed out that the poor child just wants to stimulate his mind. He was supposed to sit on a wooden block doing nothing when not working. A servant there is a servant from the moment they wake to the moment they sleep. It is not only a job, it is their life's designation, unless some kind person helps them to break out of the loop. I am not Indian, but being married to one I've seen things first hand. There are some people who, after traveling to other countries, understand about treating their employees in a more humane manner, but it is truly a minoriy at this point.
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/03/2007 9:43:53 AM
Comment: I agree a bit with toomuchjava but there are several realities, which are difficult for a non-indian person to understand, that need to be taken into consideration. First of all realization should come from within the people. Most communities give birth to too many children to use them to earn money for their families. Despite several governmental laws child labor is flourishing due to the peoples' basic intentions to earn money). Secondly, plight of most poor is not due to the societal hierarchy they are in. Anyone can become anything regardless of their caste or creed. Government has been providing free accommodation, food, clothes, pocket money, toileteries and quota (about 50%) into school, college and university admissions. The cut-off mark for qualifying to get admission into colleges and universities for these communities is very low compared to other classes. Even if they get very low grades in college they still be able to get jobs due to the quota system that gives them 50% of jobs everywhere. In promotions, they get priority due to their caste affiliations. They are the most privileged section of the Indian society but despite all this due to the lack of desire to reach higher echelons they are not able to change their status. Ofcourse, understanding Indian society is so complex there can be differing views based on the depth of knowledge about the caste system and understanding of other elements
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Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 11/03/2007 16:11:15
Comment: Actually, I'm glad the American media is digging and showing the real truth about India. India as a threat to the United States??? That's a joke. India can't even clean up its own crap! India is as backwards as its lowest castes. At least the lower castes work for a living. The rich in India don't have real jobs. They take noon-time siestas and have lower castes massage their legs. I have witnessed this first hand. The rich in India keep poor children out of school so that they can sweep the floors of their mansions and change their bratty rich kids' diapers. The rich in india never pay their taxes, they bribe government officials, and then they are surpised when the Indian poor take up terrorist tactics to bring the rich to justice (e.g. the Naxalite movement in South India). In India, the rich view the poor as subhuman. You can see in the way they speak, or rather, bark at them. India has a LOOOOOONG way to go even approach a country like America, where the poverty level is defined as being unable to own a second car or a second television.
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/03/2007 9:43:12 AM
Comment: I agree a bit with toomuchjava but there are several realities, which are difficult for a non-indian person to understand, that need to be taken into consideration. First of all realization should come from within the people. Most communities give birth to too many children to use them to earn money for their families. Despite several governmental laws child labor is flourishing due to the peoples' basic intentions to earn money). Secondly, plight of most poor is not due to the societal hierarchy they are in. Anyone can become anything regardless of their caste or creed. Government has been providing free accommodation, food, clothes, pocket money, toileteries and quota (about 50%) into school, college and university admissions. The cut-off mark for qualifying to get admission into colleges and universities for these communities is very low compared to other classes. Even if they get very low grades in college they still be able to get jobs due to the quota system that gives them 50% of jobs everywhere. In promotions, they get priority due to their caste affiliations. They are the most privileged section of the Indian society but despite all this due to the lack of desire to reach higher echelons they are not able to change their status. Ofcourse, understanding Indian society is so complex there can be differing views based on the depth of knowledge about the caste system and understanding of other elements
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Posted By: myPoint @ 11/03/2007 9:40:54 AM
Comment: I agree a bit with toomuchjava but there are several realities, which are difficult for a non-indian person to understand, that need to be taken into consideration. First of all realization should come from within the people. Most communities give birth to too many children to use them to earn money for their families. Despite several governmental laws child labor is flourishing due to the peoples' basic intentions to earn money). Secondly, plight of most poor is not due to the societal hierarchy they are in. Anyone can become anything regardless of their caste or creed. Government has been providing free accommodation, food, clothes, pocket money, toileteries and quota (about 50%) into school, college and university admissions. The cut-off mark for qualifying to get admission into colleges and universities for these communities is very low compared to other classes. Even if they get very low grades in college they still be able to get jobs due to the quota system that gives them 50% of jobs everywhere. In promotions, they get priority due to their caste affiliations. They are the most privileged section of the Indian society but despite all this due to the lack of desire to reach higher echelons they are not able to change their status. Ofcourse, understanding Indian society is so complex there can be differing views based on the depth of knowledge about the caste system and understanding of other elements
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Posted By: Pixiegirl @ 11/03/2007 9:38:54 AM
Comment: This must be a breach of human rights. Where is the United Nations or the international community leaders standing up for the ability of people everywhere to work in acceptable conditions? The Indian Government should be censured by the rest of the world for allowing this. He has the same right to dignity as any other human being.
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Posted By: toomuchjava @ 11/02/2007 8:57:13 PM
Comment: I'm glad newsday is bringing this to light. I'm not Indian, but I've spent some time there. There is money - tremendous wealth in India, however the impoverished are in a desperate state. Somehow, as a society, there needs to be a desire to take care of the poor. Or lacking a desire, laws that provide for basic human dignity.
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Posted By: junkmail6 @ 11/02/2007 7:26:23 PM
Comment: As an American, I empathize with the plight of the poor around the world. I also realize that I live a pampered lifestyle most people around the world can only dream of, and there are not enough resources for everyone to share it. My response is to be humble, grateful, and generous, remembering my parents could just as easily have been Valmiki.
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Posted By: jamshed @ 11/02/2007 5:05:31 PM
Comment: It is surprising and shocking as well. Delhi the capital city of india is not in position to give basic civic facilities to its citixens. Corruption, favouritism and inefficiency has completly collapsed our municipal system . It is very alarming for Country like India which trying to be Economic Giant innear future.
Jamshed Halepota
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Posted By: NishaJ1459 @ 11/02/2007 1:28:38 PM
Comment: This comment is directed to nawawimohamad: you are a narrow minded person who doesn't care about anyone but himself. It's people like you that ruin and disrupt our world. and who are you to say that? You have no background information related to this topic. so, please....next time thinl twice before posting a comment or saying something.
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Posted By: NishaJ1459 @ 11/02/2007 1:28:17 PM
Comment: This comment is directed to nawawimohamad: you are a narrow minded person who doesn't care about anyone but himself. It's people like you that ruin and disrupt our world. and who are you to say that? You have no background information related to this topic. so, please....next time thinl twice before posting a comment or saying something.
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Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 11/01/2007 11:30:22 PM
Comment: Let them be Who cares.
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Posted By: edfeeney @ 11/04/2007 23:16:25
Comment: TO NAWAWIMOHAMAD---Spoken like a true republican
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Posted By: csd44 @ 11/01/2007 8:09:33 PM
Comment: Fresh -
Please tell me you didn't just say there are millions of people in India irrespective of their caste who would love to have that job. -
Posted By: Fresh007 @ 11/01/2007 7:57:29 PM
Comment: It's good to know that people from the Valmiki community have a job, even if its the worst job in the world. There are millions of people in India irrespective of their caste who would love to have that job. West has been using this Caste bogey to destroy Indian society for a long time and make it turn upon itself.
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Posted By: chrislow1820 @ 11/01/2007 6:37:02 PM
Comment: Parul,
If the Indian Government is not making equipment and safety gear available to sewage workers of the Valmiki tribe, then the Government is doing a crappy (pun intended) job of integrating the lower strata. The Government may legislate against class predjudice, but remember: Talk is cheap. Actions make change. Nobody's asking for hand holding. But it's clear that India is rife with discrimination and hatred of lower classes. I've seen it with my own eyes in India. You can call it politically explosive if you want, but the fact remains that such actions, or inactions, are evil and wrong and deserve to be exposed. -
Posted By: parul.gupta @ 11/01/2007 6:21:15 PM
Comment: While I understand and empathize with the sentiment behind this article, I wonder where Ms. Hemlata Kansotia draws her conclusions from with the following comment: "If you see the engineers and officers, they are all from the upper castes of Indian society.??? What Services are you talking of? The Indian Government has done a great job of integrating the lower strata of society into the Government Services and as far as the engineers/ doctors etc. are concerned, a substantial chunk of seats in all of the Universities (including the IIT) has been reserved for the same lower castes. Please check your facts before making such comments in the media. Don???t get me wrong, I do empathize with the plight of the Valmiki tribe, but they do have the governmental support to make something of themselves. Are we to hold their hands and guide them through every step of their lives? Instead of focusing on the responsible parties i.e. the officers in charge of operations, regulatory bodies, etc. it is easy to move the focus to politically explosive topics.
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Posted By: parul.gupta @ 11/01/2007 6:20:00 PM
Comment: While I understand and empathize with the sentiment behind this article, I wonder where Ms. Hemlata Kansotia draws her conclusions from with the following comment: "If you see the engineers and officers, they are all from the upper castes of Indian society.??? What Services are you talking of? The Indian Government has done a great job of integrating the lower strata of society into the Government Services and as far as the engineers/ doctors etc. are concerned, a substantial chunk of seats in all of the Universities (including the IIT) has been reserved for the same lower castes. Please check your facts before making such comments in the media. Don???t get me wrong, I do empathize with the plight of the Valmiki tribe, but they do have the governmental support to make something of themselves. Are we to hold their hands and guide them through every step of their lives? Instead of focusing on the responsible parties i.e. the officers in charge of operations, regulatory bodies, etc. it is easy to move the focus to politically explosive topics.
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Posted By: smhinsey @ 11/01/2007 6:12:51 PM
Comment: Test
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Posted By: Anand1972 @ 11/01/2007 6:11:53 PM
Comment: I have been to India several times and have family there. Typical Indian response to reality, just ignoring it and not working on a solution to lift india out of poverty and filth.Indians are their worst enemies!
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Posted By: Kabini99 @ 11/01/2007 6:00:36 PM
Comment: Anand1972, Newsweek is a reputable publication and it is unfortunate that people as ignorant and intolerant as yourself would post such a baseless and disrespectful comment. As an individual who has actually travelled to India I take great umbrage with respect to your comments and can only surmise that you have little to no education.
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Posted By: Anand1972 @ 11/01/2007 5:54:59 PM
Comment: India is a very dirty place and Indians are the most filthy people in the world. India will never progress beyond third world status!
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Posted By: MikeWilson @ 11/06/2007 06:02:16
Comment: Anand .. While You enjoy Yourself in a country ( whichever rathole who have crawled into ) .. Go suck Your dad's *** while You are at it ... Or dont call yourself Anand anymore - Better - Cockshit cokbreath ...People like You should be shot and fed with their own excreta ...Like the prisoners in the Gulf War ....
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Posted By: Kabini99 @ 11/01/2007 5:50:25 PM
Comment: In response to dynamo211 who clearly is not of Indian decent and is now an advocate of equality among classes has conveniently forgotten that one of the largest and most successful democracies in the world struggled with Slavery and equal rights for decades, if not centuries. Just as America overcame these massive hurdles India will do the same. It is understandable how appauling the caste system must sound to non-Indians, however just as the U.S. has moved towards change and that today there is even the prospect of the first African American President being elected into office, India will too one day be able to move forward from a caste based society. As this country knows it is not an overnight process and poverty and caste based issues should not take away from the hurdles that India as a nation has overcome since Independence.
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Posted By: toomuchjava @ 11/02/2007 21:07:08
Comment: Unfortunately wealthy Indians on the whole don't seem to have the desire to recognize the poor as equals. Real change can only occur with understanding and a drive towards it. It's not only about money. Wealthy Indians are treated with such respect from poorer folk that it elevates them to a position of power. It's not only the incredible sadness of the sewer workers, but anyone with any degree of wealth has servants (live in) to handle all of their daily needs. Unfortunately many people continue to treat these servants in a less than proper , even abusive way. Child labor is still used without education being provided to them.
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Posted By: muffinmonster @ 11/01/2007 5:29:29 PM
Comment: This story saddened me - because this is what my company does here in the States. It's painful to think of workers crawling around inside the sewer pipes. My company, JWC Environmental, makes a line of sewage grinders and fine screens so people don???t do this by hand. Our Muffin Monster product line of shredders and screens handles the trash in order to avoid back-ups, breakdowns and spills which Rakesh and his coworkers do this with their hands, picks and shovels. In the 1970s Congress put an incredible amount of funding into building America???s wastewater treatment plants. In due time India will also invest in wastewater infrastructure to protect their people and their environment. We can???t wait until the day JWC starts putting Muffin Monsters (the name of our sewage shredder) into India???s sewage system and Rakesh and his coworkers can come out and be wastewater treatment plant operators in the safety of a control room. That will be the day.
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Posted By: magsheen @ 11/01/2007 5:21:29 PM
Comment: From my personal experience with high-caste-rank Indians living in the US, they were pretty much crooks, trying to take advantage of other people without much regards to ethics. My experience comes mainly from corporate experience. One guy made lies and false accusations blantantly, and he claimed that he is a Brahman(?) and his people are most respected in India. I am not surprised that these high-rank-caste people try to rip off their fellow Indians in India.
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Posted By: magsheen @ 11/01/2007 5:21:16 PM
Comment: From my personal experience with high-caste-rank Indians living in the US, they were pretty much crooks, trying to take advantage of other people without much regards to ethics. My experience comes mainly from corporate experience. One guy made lies and false accusations blantantly, and he claimed that he is a Brahman(?) and his people are most respected in India. I am not surprised that these high-rank-caste people try to rip off their fellow Indians in India.
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Posted By: dynamo211 @ 11/01/2007 5:14:06 PM
Comment: What do you call progress when 700 million of your people are being forced to breate and eat and die sewage in order to put food on their families plate. The development and progress doesn't count until you treat your fellow countryman as equals.
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Posted By: Kabini99 @ 11/01/2007 4:53:25 PM
Comment: It is unfortunate that articles like this take away from all of the progress and development which has occurred in India in the past 10 years. There is no doubt that the country must invest to create a stronger and more efficient infrastucture, however many forget that India is still very much a young Democracy and just like the other great democracies of the world, India will overcome these obstacles.
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Posted By: csd44 @ 11/01/2007 3:43:17 PM
Comment: Good to see India's caste system is alive and well - given all the other "progress" it's been making.
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Posted By: csd44 @ 11/01/2007 3:42:41 PM
Comment: Good to see India's caste system is alive and well, given all the other progress it's making.
