Let them be Who cares.
Let them be Who cares.
TO NAWAWIMOHAMAD---Spoken like a true republican
I honestly believe that this would be an appropriate punishment for all corrupt republicans. For a Party thats been wallowing in the sewe for some time I think this occupation ensures that we wouldn't have to use that term figurativly anymore.
This Comment for Shankar and People who think like him. Caste System was built was not discriminate others. What you think living in the West or North American make u powerful or invinsible? West has its own kind of Caste System. Go and find jobs in the West or North America. First Preference is always given to WHITES. What kind of discrimination is that? Please tell me? Business caste marries business caste, warrior caste marries warrior caste, brahmin marries brahmins which brings more good offspring born through them. This is no joke but facts. Did you ever read Science Subject? i think not? TEll me Why Jews marry Jews ? Why Muslims Marry Muslims? People will say it is because of same religion .You know it is totally false propangda.India caste system was also based on religion . Vedic Hindu Religion. ? People will put blames on Hindu caste system of doing Discrimination and racism with Dalits. What a Joke?
Everyone in this world is racist in one way or other. White Christians people in America treated Black people as Dalits also. Both Whites people and blacks people were Christians. What u call it? Jews treat everyone in the world as Genitals as they are only chosen people? Well some will say this is racist way of putting other races and religions down. Muslims think they are given the authority to change whole world into muslim and they consider Hindu, Sikh, Buddhists infidels? What u will say that? Caste discrimination or religion discrimination? India made caste system so India never become unstable in the world like your Iraq or Pakistan. Hindu religion is the oldest religion of the world and caste system was made so Indian people never became confused of knowing of their duties after they are born and raised. India is the most peaceful country in the world and still today . Indians never want to conquer any country . Think if whole indians become soldiers then who will take care of business? And if whole Indians start doing business then who will be there to defend India from Other countries? Indian caste system is the best system in the world no matter others what others have to say. India has given so many things to this world. I think Caste System was right governing system made for India as India was so big and not easy to control. Now in 21 century, we see America as perfect example of no discrimination on basis of castes but Check your America properly. WHITES are still the majority in Power and so don;t talk Ramayan or Geeta here if you haven't seen the World properly. Racism is everywhere in the world stop blaming Indian Caste System. Don't forget What Britishers did in South Africa and India. Please. I think i have to make u remember old days.
"mypoint" made a commentary on the purpose of caste - He says that the purpose of caste and "Gothras" is to prevent intermarriage of blood relatives. That is a joke. More Indians marry their cousins or uncles than in any society in the West. In fact it is quite normal, though there are some bizzare rules governing it (e.g. you can marry your mother's brother's offspring, but not your mother's sister's offspring). Caste today in India functions simply as a system of social heirarchy. Nothing more, nothing less. It is, or should be, a gross embarrassment to all Indians. Unfortunately, you would be hard-pressed to find a Bramhin in India who is not "proud" of their caste...
The bottom-line regarding the poor kids and castes in India is that the wealthy exploit them. They treat them like animals. They make them shovel crap without proper safety equipment. The poor uneducated Indian families don't know better. But what is the excuse for a well educated Indian man to exploit his fellow man, keep him from an education, and enslave him?
Perhaps the example of the Naxalites is poor one. But the point still stands.
Lastly, I did not say that India cannot reach the status of the USA. I only said that it would take a LOOOOOOONG time. But when you hear Donald Trump and the rest of the US media telling stories of how India will soon somehow surpass our country, it is truly laughable. Our American media should be more even-handed in its coverage of India.
I am not a pundit to explain why the rules about marriage within the families exist. Indian history is so ancient one needs to have a very thorough knowledge (it may appear we know everything but we may have to agree that we know nothing) about Indian history. My friend has to realize it is not only the Indian people who marry within their relations. There is another religion that follows the same but little differently. There may have been reasons.
My friend needs to realize not all the upper caste people are rich and not all the lower caste people are poor. So you may have to stop the correlation between poor and caste. You may also have to note that nobody is enslaving other. It is their own choice that is enslaving them. They do not want to send their children to school because they do not want to loose the income. Some states in India made the school compulsory for all. Government provides books, soaps etc to poor kids every year. Where do they end up? Guess what - in the market. Do you say that it is exploitation? You have to address the root problem. You have to change the mindset of the people. What is the use in blaming people who take drugs? Stop the source. Everywhere in the world, there are people who like to exploit others if given a chance.
One should know the reality before commenting on castes. In one state in south, people from "Kamma" caste feel proud of themselves eventhough they come under lower caste society. They dominate movies, politics etc because they are rich. Their caste comes under "sudra" category (meaning the lower category in the strata) but they dominate other upper castes. So, rich/poor and caste do not have any relation.
Unfortunately, in India there are more preachers than followers. My friend needs to understand that discrimination exists in every country by one way or the other (caste, gender, color, race etc). Show me one place where it doesn't exist
Do not understand why the example about Naxalism is poor. Naxalism has no meaning these days. It originated with one view and the path they have taken now is different. They blow bridges, blow roads, stop all the development if Govt. tries to build bridges or develop under-developed areas. It is not anti-rich. It is anti-poor because ultimately it is the poor who is going to suffer if they have no hospitals, roads etc
I agree that India takes a long time to reach the level of USA. Why compare with USA? Infact, many Indians do not like to reach the level of USA in some aspects. India did not borrow people for the skilled jobs from other countries. One needs to realize this: Building wealth on $100 is more easier than building on nothing. Donald Trump and others with their enterprenurial experience may have said India can surpass USA interms of economic growth.
To all Who allways talk about
My fellow member "Shankardada2 " commented that India cannot reach the status of USA. One shuold understand that when did USA get independance? When did India get? What was the population and area of USA and India when they got independance? How can any system cater to the needs of exploding population? As this commentator pointed "poor are becoming naxalites". Yes, I agree to some extent. I came from a very tiny village in the forests and knew better about these than most. Once upon a time, Naxalism used to be revered by the poor. But now - these so called naxalites are not waging war to protect the poor but to make millions of rupees by extortion. If you go to any rural village you will know that in the disguise of naxalism many people have amassed so much of wealth. Naxalism has become a farce. This commentator also added, Indian can not clean-up its own crap" - In India if you go to any town or village you will notice people throwing garbage etc on the roads as if they do not belong to them and in the next minute walk on the same roads and complain that they are dirty.
Another commentator pointed that "Who cares" for these things. Yes, we have so many people like these in India. There is one section of our secular community which doesn't care about the welfare of their own country but their religion and keep producing offspring as if there is no tomorrow.
Yes, I understand the plight of the poor kids. Who is to blame for it? The society? The Government? The master? None of those. It is the parents who are to be blamed for (given the reasons in my comment before). When government is providing all it can why should any parent send children as someone's servant? I am not advocating hurting anyone's liberties or freedom but am just trying to clear why these things are happening. Despite making child labor and slavery illegal and agains the law these things are still happening because of the greed of parents and masters. You will always find people to take advantage of others given the opportunity. So you need to address the root causes first
Caste system and marriages: Yes, the caste system demarcates the communities based on several aspects. If you take any (99%) Indian family you can trace back the roots to several (10-20) generations without any trouble (unlike in the West) and you can confidently say that you are from the same community for generations. It was done due to several reasons. Over a period of generations there is every likelihood that you won't know how a person is related to you even if you know he/she is from your caste/family if you do not have a caste system. But, the beauty of Indian system is that you can easily tell whether a person is your brother, sister, aunt or whoever. You do not end up marrying your sister by this arrangement. Take west for example: You do not know who you are marrying to unless you trace the roots (which is almost impossible in my observation). Another reason the system works is that you know the medical history and genetics of each family or caste if you marry within that group. You may already know, since you married to an Indian, that before marriage boy's and girl's families verify the backgrounds to each family and verify "Gothras" in order to see if they are related by blood in any manner.
I am not saying people should be descriminated on Caste basis but the system should exist for several reasons. I think every country is divided into groups based on one ceriterion or the other (caste system in India and in western countries by different denominations in their own religion for example).
While it is good that the Indian government has done many things in order to integrate its society, this problem is not going to go away for at least another generation, as it is society, and its members, that can make this possible in a real and impactful way. Sure enough, anybody with the desire and the drive, which is not something you inherit but something that has to come with the right environmental conditions, can prosper and make something out their lives, but this is usually an exception rather than the rule.
Real change is not going to happen until all people realize that keeping its own members of its society ignorant and uneducated is counterproductive to the long term goals of the nation, but that is not an easy thing to change in people, especially when their family backgrounds have allowed this for many generations.
One can not forget that in a country where the population is so large that survival often comes at the expense of someone else's the value of live and therefore the value of people is very different than to most of us in the west. People working in sewers is just one of many many problems that exist, with illegal child labor being by far the largest and most impactful problem. As children ages 6 and up are forced to work at the expense of education it means that a whole NEW generation of people are being left behind before they even start. That practice is not only a great detriment to the future of the country, but it has ramications that extend for DECADES TO COME. As long as their own people allow this to happen with impunity this problem will persist and will keep India from hitting economic critical mass. Sure enough, with a populaton of 1.2 billion it also means that about 400 million Indians have great opportunity, a population that in itself is greater than that of any industrialized country, so that is the only momentum they really have. But as the masses are left behind, the societal problems the country faces are also going to esclate and become more acute. This is perhaps the main reason why the Indian government takes some action towards solving these problems, but I am afraid that it is too little, and too late.
makemebarf , you need more education
Thank you, mypoint for clarifying those things for me. Yes, I do understand about the government's help in terms of admissions to colleges, etc, and that truly is progress. But I still believe that the caste system is alive and well due to the continuation of arranged marriages, where no one will marry beneath their financial status. Yes, there are "love" marriages, but the pressure from families to marry at or above their families wealth continues. I am tremendously bothered by the plight of the poor house servants, and was almost kicked out of someones home when I expressed concern about their child servant. The family complained that this boy sometimes sneaks and watches videos. They were really upset about this, and I pointed out that the poor child just wants to stimulate his mind. He was supposed to sit on a wooden block doing nothing when not working. A servant there is a servant from the moment they wake to the moment they sleep. It is not only a job, it is their life's designation, unless some kind person helps them to break out of the loop. I am not Indian, but being married to one I've seen things first hand. There are some people who, after traveling to other countries, understand about treating their employees in a more humane manner, but it is truly a minoriy at this point.
I agree a bit with toomuchjava but there are several realities, which are difficult for a non-indian person to understand, that need to be taken into consideration. First of all realization should come from within the people. Most communities give birth to too many children to use them to earn money for their families. Despite several governmental laws child labor is flourishing due to the peoples' basic intentions to earn money). Secondly, plight of most poor is not due to the societal hierarchy they are in. Anyone can become anything regardless of their caste or creed. Government has been providing free accommodation, food, clothes, pocket money, toileteries and quota (about 50%) into school, college and university admissions. The cut-off mark for qualifying to get admission into colleges and universities for these communities is very low compared to other classes. Even if they get very low grades in college they still be able to get jobs due to the quota system that gives them 50% of jobs everywhere. In promotions, they get priority due to their caste affiliations. They are the most privileged section of the Indian society but despite all this due to the lack of desire to reach higher echelons they are not able to change their status. Ofcourse, understanding Indian society is so complex there can be differing views based on the depth of knowledge about the caste system and understanding of other elements
Actually, I'm glad the American media is digging and showing the real truth about India. India as a threat to the United States??? That's a joke. India can't even clean up its own crap! India is as backwards as its lowest castes. At least the lower castes work for a living. The rich in India don't have real jobs. They take noon-time siestas and have lower castes massage their legs. I have witnessed this first hand. The rich in India keep poor children out of school so that they can sweep the floors of their mansions and change their bratty rich kids' diapers. The rich in india never pay their taxes, they bribe government officials, and then they are surpised when the Indian poor take up terrorist tactics to bring the rich to justice (e.g. the Naxalite movement in South India). In India, the rich view the poor as subhuman. You can see in the way they speak, or rather, bark at them. India has a LOOOOOONG way to go even approach a country like America, where the poverty level is defined as being unable to own a second car or a second television.
I agree a bit with toomuchjava but there are several realities, which are difficult for a non-indian person to understand, that need to be taken into consideration. First of all realization should come from within the people. Most communities give birth to too many children to use them to earn money for their families. Despite several governmental laws child labor is flourishing due to the peoples' basic intentions to earn money). Secondly, plight of most poor is not due to the societal hierarchy they are in. Anyone can become anything regardless of their caste or creed. Government has been providing free accommodation, food, clothes, pocket money, toileteries and quota (about 50%) into school, college and university admissions. The cut-off mark for qualifying to get admission into colleges and universities for these communities is very low compared to other classes. Even if they get very low grades in college they still be able to get jobs due to the quota system that gives them 50% of jobs everywhere. In promotions, they get priority due to their caste affiliations. They are the most privileged section of the Indian society but despite all this due to the lack of desire to reach higher echelons they are not able to change their status. Ofcourse, understanding Indian society is so complex there can be differing views based on the depth of knowledge about the caste system and understanding of other elements
I agree a bit with toomuchjava but there are several realities, which are difficult for a non-indian person to understand, that need to be taken into consideration. First of all realization should come from within the people. Most communities give birth to too many children to use them to earn money for their families. Despite several governmental laws child labor is flourishing due to the peoples' basic intentions to earn money). Secondly, plight of most poor is not due to the societal hierarchy they are in. Anyone can become anything regardless of their caste or creed. Government has been providing free accommodation, food, clothes, pocket money, toileteries and quota (about 50%) into school, college and university admissions. The cut-off mark for qualifying to get admission into colleges and universities for these communities is very low compared to other classes. Even if they get very low grades in college they still be able to get jobs due to the quota system that gives them 50% of jobs everywhere. In promotions, they get priority due to their caste affiliations. They are the most privileged section of the Indian society but despite all this due to the lack of desire to reach higher echelons they are not able to change their status. Ofcourse, understanding Indian society is so complex there can be differing views based on the depth of knowledge about the caste system and understanding of other elements
This must be a breach of human rights. Where is the United Nations or the international community leaders standing up for the ability of people everywhere to work in acceptable conditions? The Indian Government should be censured by the rest of the world for allowing this. He has the same right to dignity as any other human being.
In response to dynamo211 who clearly is not of Indian decent and is now an advocate of equality among classes has conveniently forgotten that one of the largest and most successful democracies in the world struggled with Slavery and equal rights for decades, if not centuries. Just as America overcame these massive hurdles India will do the same. It is understandable how appauling the caste system must sound to non-Indians, however just as the U.S. has moved towards change and that today there is even the prospect of the first African American President being elected into office, India will too one day be able to move forward from a caste based society. As this country knows it is not an overnight process and poverty and caste based issues should not take away from the hurdles that India as a nation has overcome since Independence.
Unfortunately wealthy Indians on the whole don't seem to have the desire to recognize the poor as equals. Real change can only occur with understanding and a drive towards it. It's not only about money. Wealthy Indians are treated with such respect from poorer folk that it elevates them to a position of power. It's not only the incredible sadness of the sewer workers, but anyone with any degree of wealth has servants (live in) to handle all of their daily needs. Unfortunately many people continue to treat these servants in a less than proper , even abusive way. Child labor is still used without education being provided to them.
I'm glad newsday is bringing this to light. I'm not Indian, but I've spent some time there. There is money - tremendous wealth in India, however the impoverished are in a desperate state. Somehow, as a society, there needs to be a desire to take care of the poor. Or lacking a desire, laws that provide for basic human dignity.
As an American, I empathize with the plight of the poor around the world. I also realize that I live a pampered lifestyle most people around the world can only dream of, and there are not enough resources for everyone to share it. My response is to be humble, grateful, and generous, remembering my parents could just as easily have been Valmiki.
It is surprising and shocking as well. Delhi the capital city of india is not in position to give basic civic facilities to its citixens. Corruption, favouritism and inefficiency has completly collapsed our municipal system . It is very alarming for Country like India which trying to be Economic Giant innear future.
Jamshed Halepota
London,England
This comment is directed to nawawimohamad: you are a narrow minded person who doesn't care about anyone but himself. It's people like you that ruin and disrupt our world. and who are you to say that? You have no background information related to this topic. so, please....next time thinl twice before posting a comment or saying something.
This comment is directed to nawawimohamad: you are a narrow minded person who doesn't care about anyone but himself. It's people like you that ruin and disrupt our world. and who are you to say that? You have no background information related to this topic. so, please....next time thinl twice before posting a comment or saying something.
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