While Pakistan Burns

I would feel safe sitting beside a Muslim or Sikh. You make interesting comments. Unfortunately, there are stereotypes that exist that are not true, but thanks to responses like yours you were able to easily prove that the stereotype is a fallacy, and is indeed not true. Not all Muslims, Arabs and Sikhs are terrorists. It is amazing how a local conflict if not treated can spread around the world. Thank you, I learned something today.

Eddiewhere, what you say is true. There were once Sikh terrorists. But no more. Sikhs once fought India for an independent homeland of their own in the 1980's. Indira Ghandi's Sikh bodyguard assassinated her for a brutal government crackdown on Sikhs in Punjab, India. That movement has been over for 2 decades. Much like the civil war in Ireland is over. You don't see Irish anymore and get suspiscious. When Americans see people with turbans in the USA they should know that they represent no threat whatsoever. At least, not as part of a global terrorist movement. I'm sure there are some Sikh criminals out there, but Sikhs are far from Muslims and indeed have battled them for centuries on the Indian subcontinent. A Sikh kingdom was a chief obstacle to the expansion of Islam in the Indian subcontinent before the arrival of the British. I would feel very comfortable sitting next to a man in a turban on an airplane, because I know that he is Sikh, and not a Muslim. Muslims in America do not wear turbans. And a terrorist Muslim NEVER would. That would just be stupid.

The Sihk's who do wear turbans on their heads killed Ghandi in 1984 and bombed a Canadian Jumbo airliner in 1985 killing over 220 people headed to New Dheli. My point is that terrorists like the mafia have penetrated parts of government and the white collar community especially in the technology and sciences field. These terrorist organizations have evolved over time and now have become a threat to the entire globe. What i know is that we got caught with our guard down on 9/11 and it is time to recognize the threat as "real" and not deny it/, and change the subject to religious babble. Americans must realize that we have to be on top of our government so they protect us against technological,chemical, biological and nuclear attacks. Terroists exists everywhere and are not all Muslims. However, there are organizations that are Muslim and Arab that have made it clear they want to eliminate states around the world by any means necessary. They have demonstrated that they have evolved and can penetrate the CIA. Our responsibility as Americans is to get educated and get involved with organizations that provide solutions. Your opinion means nothing unless you have some influence on the topic. We are at war and I think people in this country do not appreciate the fact that there are young men and women dying around the world so you can have the freedom to share your religious and historical input. THis is not about agreeing or disagreeing about stereotypes, this is about reality. And the reality is that many people think that individuals with turbans or brown skin who are terrorists. Whether it is true or not it is reality. THat is the least of my concerns. My concern is that we know there are former soviet republics that are Muslim states who could have entities within there governments who support Al Queda ideology or anti-american ideology not Macveigh(a sick young man) ideology Timithoy Mcveigh did not have the support of Muslim and Arab countries, he did not have spies in the CIA. THe real threat is a terrorist organization penetrating Russian and Chinese governments or to having influences in those governments, or to have merely sympathizers in those governments, who would provide an avenue for terrorists to attack the United States. Or vice versus. Chinese could technologically attack the United States and blame it on terrorists. Foreign policy is a very delicate and ongoing issue. We are in a hundred year war, these terrorists organizations are passing their ideology down for generations. 20 years from know China and Russian could be our enemies and we would be 20 years behind in the fight. You dig.

shankardada2 thank u for a very good post indeed i only wish i could say it as good as u did. i always thought that one should know the subject in order to be able to condem or condon it. apperently u did your homework which is good. many people express their "oppinions" regarding religion but those are mainly "exerpts" and not true oppinions based on historical facts. now i am not denying very existence of man whose name was Jesus Christ. nor the implication of such in a conception of christianity. but just like with any ideology of mankind even this one has turned out against human race. i'll be brief ond blunt. one should really study the history of christianity to understand the impact it had in the past on not just individuals but whole nations to understand that what islam is going through is surely nothing new to christianity. knowing what divisions, over the years, have been placed among people around the globe in the name of "somebody's" God sometime makes me think if the very religion is actually a very instrument of evil

It saddens me,and never ceases to amaze me the amount of people that are so gullible in this world.The melting pot that is called Global Terrorism stretches far and wide across our otherwise peaceful planet, and reaches positions of power not only on a local government level but higher.This has always been the case and always will be. While there is quote: freedom fighters, there will always be sympathisers in sometimes high places of authority who for one favour or another, will always be willing to turn the other cheeck, so to speak.Also when it is appropriate for certain governments to do so, certain things may be done for specific reasons, which the common man need never know about, even though to the common man, it doesn't make sense. In reality, there is a reason, good or bad, for certain decisions.

Musharraf must be arrested or court marshalled.
He holds the secret to 9/11.

Here was leo decieving people and telling that terrorists are just a bunch of restless fanatis who can't stay still. I was rigtht our enemy is decieving. What do you think about the mole that was working for Hamas(declared a terrorist organization by the United States and Alllies) under the banner of the CIA. That's right Leo they are not the 21st century terrorists have penetrated the CIA. How did this Happen? Because people like LEO thought the enemy fit the status quo a male with a "Turban"// Instead as mentioned the enemy was a women working for the CIA. Leo you underestimated the enemy. Do you know who your neighbor is?

Musharraf must be arrested or court marshalled.
He holds the secret to 9/11.

This article should act as eye opener for supporter of Musharraf in western countries. Musharraf and Pakistan amry are the very reason that extremism exists in Pakistan. Taliban was originally created by Pakistan Army and during army eight years rule they only flourished in Pakistan. Musharraf is brutally cracking down liberal and secular element in Pakistan and at the same time releasing score of convicted Taliban from jails as pointed out in this article. Taliban was created by Pakistan Army and this ugly creation won't go away as long as their patrons are in power. USA has given billion of dollars to Pakistan Army to fight terrorism and these dollars has gone into pockets of Army Generals without any serious effort to eradicate the menace of Islamic extremism. Military is shutting down crucial civil society institutions and as a result Al-Qaeda/Taliban are finding room and flourishing in Pakistan.
It is high team that west recognize true face of Musharraf. The only solution to Pakistan problem and extermism is democracy and not Musharraf.

Terrorists in the 21st century can do a lot more damage than terrorists from a hundred years ago. Terrorist are not all fanatics, they support terrorism because they hate America. These people are not your buddies, they will obliberate this country if they had the capabilitiies. you offer no solution. Your solution is to do nothing and ignore the crisis. I do agree that the leadership in this country has made mistakes, so it is our duty as Americans to help them fix it. You seem like an intelligent fellow, you should work as a consultant for one of the Thinktanks in Washington D.C and advise the leadership how to deal with fanaticss( .who are backed by wealthy supporters)who want to work with anyone who will help them kill us. Biologically, Chemically or nuclear. I don't want people to be scared I want them to confront the reality that there are 5 Muslime states in Central Asia that were former soviet republics. These states, must never be tempted to work with terrorist organizations or American enemies. For example think of the possibility of these states colluding with CHina and RUssia to thwart American interest in that area, what better way to do that than through terrorist. Terrorist disrupt American interest in the middle east, and RUssia and CHina profit as do the 5 Muslim states. America is then blamed for the destabilization. As you can see foreign policy is not a cut and dry isssue it 's complicated . I haven't even touched on the Israeli issues. WHich makes this situation even more complicated. IT is America and Israel against the whole region even against countries in Europe I like to call haters; most notable France and Russia. Putin is disgusted with American plans to integrate missle defence systems in Eastern Europe on land that use to be part of the Soviet Union. This issue could cause Russia to turn on the United States and begin their alliance with CHina. I am looking forward to hearing your solution leo.

And lastly, lexcathedra, it is probable that "Jesus" is just a figment of the imagination of some writers in the early 2nd century, AD. See http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html . I would certainly require a mountain of evidence to believe that a man walked on water, or replicated 100 fish out of one, or rose from the dead, or that when I drink wine and eat crackers that I am somehow drinking His blood and eating His flesh... There is surprisingly little to no evidence, in the form of independant observation, as there has been for certain other religious figures' existence, such as Buddha, Mahavir, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, etc. Not to say that these characters were supernatural, but there is much more evidence in support of their existence.

As for eddiewhere's concerns, stop repeating the same post over and over again. I agree that we must address the terrorist threat in the Muslim world, I wish that we could do so by simply having Muslims turn away from Islam, just as so many Christians are beginning to turn away from Christianity. But it is probably unrealistic. Instead, we must at least encourage those Muslims who are attempting to redefine Islam to religion of peace, much as Christian "moderates" have done for Christianity. We must make them in our own likeness, "cafeteria faithful." Also, in Pakistan specifically, we must encourage an alternative to Musharraf. We must encourage democracy and economic expansion. We must encourage a government with true legitimacy that can face the militants in the Northwest Frontier Provinces. This will be a government of Muslim moderates; and they will be our saviors, even though lexcathedra despises them so.

Oh and Lexcathedra - you ARE casting stones in the name of Christianity, by denigrating those who are attempting to moderate Islam by selective readings of the Koran, just as Christians have moderated Christianity over the past half century by ignoring large swaths of the Bible.

I am not Muslim. I feel sorry for those who are so beholden to books that have caused so much evil in the world. Followers of Islam expanded by force throughout the middle east, Africa, Europe, and Asia. Followers of Christianity crusaded in the "Holy Land" and butchered their opponents. In Spain, Under Muslim rule, Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived together. After ascendancy of the Christian King and Queen, all other religious groups were killed or expelled. Jews butchered their opponents in ancient times. These acts were all COMMANDED by the leaders of their religions. The Pope ordered the Crusades. Mohammed ordered Arab conquests. Moses' God brought on the plagues (although, the plagues are far from documented truths - this is probably an fictitious act of barbarism by your God). It is all pure evil cloaked in the guise of a road to salvation. Thankfully, most Christians are much more civilized than their ancestors were when Christianity was 1400 years old. Incidentally, that is the age of Islam now. When Christianity was 1400 years old, Christians were beheading Muslims, Jews, and Witches. The Enlightenment and Renaisance, an age of reason, NOT THE CHURCH, saved Christianity from the Dark Ages. Hopefully, Muslims will see the light of reason far earlier than the timeframe Christians. When I made the comment of the casting the stone, I was pointing out the internal inconsistency of the Bible itself. The words of the Bible can and have been used to justify any nefarious purpose. The answer to the evils of Islam, like the answer to the evils of Christianity, will come from outside of the religion. Hopefully mankind can soon see these religions for what they are - cynical attempts to manipulate the minds of men at the worst, and crutches for the weak of spirit at the best... I know that speaking to a devout Christian or Muslim is like speaking to a brick wall though. It is amazing to me that you cannot acknowledge all of the evil things that have been done in the name of your religion. Perhaps this is simply the nature of man, to blindly cling to his belief system in the face of overwhelming evidence of its evils. It would be interesting, Lexcathedra, to hear your arguments if you had been born in Saudi Arabia. I'm sure you would be equally as illogical, in support of Osama Bin Laden, that is...

I think that you are avoiding the topic because you are embarrassed that your religion has be hijaked and that you see the deperation of your Muslim people as they blow themselves up. Just likd the Kamakazi you are desperate Muslims who deep down support their radical ideology. So you have to talk nonsense, nither of you are biblical scholars stick to the topic. Doing nothing and dismissing the terrorist as cave people is not a viable option. The leadership of terrorist movements and their members take many forms, they are doctors, lawyers,businessmen, bankers, old, young, ,male female, political and religious leaders. Terrorist do not need to reinvent the wheel they can purchase the equipment and the scientist from former soviet republics most notalbly the 5 muslim states in central Asia. Could you imagine a President of one of those countries was to work with Al Queda. Remeber an attack does not have to be nuclear it can be biological(diseases) or chemical. This is a global crisis that needs to be deal with socially, economically and politically. Leaders of governments around the world must not even be tempted to support a terrorist organization. The consequences must be so severe that they must fear supporting terrorist groups because it would destroy their own self interest. If the social problems in countries are ignored it will come back to haunt us. Getting rid of terrorist organizations and their leadership and ideology is only half the battle. Working with governments around the world to implementing social change that would promote an ideology of prosperity. People will follow leaders who can better their lives here on earth. So, without social, political and economic reform military action will not have a long lasting impact. After World War 11 everyone had enough the consequences were so high that nobody never wanted to fight another Hitler. They did not alienate Germany after World War 2 instead they helped to rebuild it, WHY? because they wanted to create and enviornment where another Hitler would not emerge. Germany was alienated after world war 1 and was forced to pay astronomical amounts of money in reparitions to Britain, Russia and France. Post world war 1 enviornment made it easy for Hiltler to rise to power. The bottomline is ignoring terrorist movement which has penetrated every continent and class around the world would be a disaster. These movements and their powerful supporters must be confronted and defeated, if not we are in for a big one. The War on Terror is real you just have no idea how much is being done behind the scenes to keep America safe. There have been more than 50 terrorist plans thwarted since 9/11. You completely underestimate the enemy.

Shankardada2, would you call Jesus a hypocrite for not enforcing the stoning decree against the woman caught in adultery?

Shankardada2, you've made my point. By quoting Jesus' admonition: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," you have proven that those who WOULD cast stones in the name of Christianity are in truth DISOBEYING what Jesus taught, no matter what supposed authority they may claim to be acting in his name, so thank you, even though I'm sure this is not what you intended to do....As for Muslims "who choose to see the good in the Qur'an," they have no freedom to choose what they will and won't believe if they would call themselves Muslim. Mohammad was quite explicit in how nastily Muslims are to deal with unbelieving infidels, particularly Jews and Christians. See: http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes.Islam. The fact that many Muslims live as friends and equals among non-Muslims is not owing to the Qur'an or Hadiths, but to their own personal rejection or moderation of the texts. Call them cafeteria Muslims. Technically speaking, they are apostates. As for the afterlife, you well know that Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead as he said he would. Your current belief, I assume, is that the Gospel writers were either deceived or are liars, which incidentally is precisely what Muslims believe as well. They don't believe that Jesus was even crucified, for no other reason than that Mohammad said that "Allah" tricked the soldiers into crucifying someone else and spirited Jesus to heaven. Why would "Allah" do such a thing? I suspect that it's because Mohammad could not tolerate the thought that salvation would come through a Jew, on the one hand, and on the other, that hell needed to discredit the vicarious atonement, to keep people ignorant of God's gift of salvation, and the best way to accomplish this was by denying that it even happened. You do recall, don't you, that Christianity is the Covenant in the blood of the lamb, but without a death, there is no New Covenant, and Christians are the most pitiable of people, believing a lie. Islam mocks the Cross. Mohammad was happy to serve as hell's "prophet" in this regard.. On his deathbed he implored Allah's curse on Jews and Christians for their rejection of Islam. Nice guy. He gets a lump of coal in his Christmas stocking.