While Pakistan Burns

As far as the theorem of Pythagorus goes, of course it has stood the test of time. But countless other proposals from the same scientist have since been disproven. The same goes for the Bilbe. Sure there are some good things in there. But there are many evil things in it too. We should view it critically and take the good examples from it, and reject the bad. Also we should view morality as having an independent basis from scripture. It seems that unconsciously, you are doing exactly that. Or have you stoned a non-Christian lately? So my question is, why do reject Muslims who choose to see the good in the Quran? I reject both of you simply because I feel that one does not nead the Bible or the Quran to be a good, decent person. And as for the afterlife... Who really knows?

I did not say that we shouldn't read books 2000 years old. They are part of our heritage. But we should not accept them blindly as guides to spirituality. Clearly Scientology is no better than Christianity and Islam. But maybe it is, in the sense that I have heard of no Scientology passages commanding murder like Deuteronomy. But I don't know enough about that religion to comment. As a former Christian, I feel more comfortable speaking of that religion. No scientist accepts theorems blindly. Instead science is constantly critrically examining and modifying itself. The Church does so only fitfully. The passage that you refer to regards that notion that crusaders probably rarely ate BABIES, which would be cruel even by Christian standards of the day. In the words of Pope Urban II himself: "I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it is meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it." Fulcher of Chartres' account of Urban's speech, Urban II: Speech at Council of Clermont, 1095, Five versions of the Speech (available as part of the Internet Medieval Sourcebook). In 1492, a year famous for the adventures of Columbus, the entire Jewish community was expelled from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition was lead by the Spanish monarchy and clergy and was approved by Pope Sixtus IV. This led to the deaths of tens of thousands Jews and Muslims, either during forced migrations, torture, or imprisonment. Open your eyes, do your research, my friend, and stop blindly accepting what your preacher tells you. And when it comes to denigrating Islam for its commands to kill, remember the famous quotation, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Check your own Bible, which on the one hand preaches against murder, and on the other espouses stoning of heretics.

Shankardada2, it is hardly a well known fact that Crusaders cannibalized the fallen Arabs during their campaigns. In fact, as the link you included notes, it was the Tafurs alone who may have cannibalized some of their victims during the First Crusade: "Specifically, starving crusaders were reported to have eaten their fallen Muslim opponants. (sic) Although such behavior was undoubtedly very rare, sources claim that Muslims spread terrifying rumors of crusaders "who fed very greedily on the bodies of saracens." So, cannibalism may have occurred for reasons of hunger, and Muslims may have lied about it., but what does any of it have to do with Christianity according to the Canon? As for the Pope granting Crusaders a "free path to heaven," would you be so kind as to provide documentary evidence? I am simply not going to take your word for it. Ditto for the Church's "wholesale slaughter and torture of Jewry during the Inquisition." My contention regarding Islam is that the Qur'an justifies and even commands all manner of abuse up to and including murder perpetrated by Muslims against unbelievers, "polytheists," and "infidels.". The same cannot be said of the New Testament....You don't like the thought of using books that are 1200-3000 years old to guide our spirituality? Does that mean that you prefer more current spiritualities, like Scientology or Unitarian Universalism, or are you saying that the older something is, the more irrelevant it becomes? Following this skewed logic, the Theorum attributed to Pythagorus (c.560-c.480 B.C.) should be ditched, which may actually be almost 4000 years old, not to mention the Hippocratic Oath, which is probably 2300 years old. Your whole argument IS laughable.

Lexcathedra, it is well-known fact that Crusaders cannibalized the fallen Arabs during their campaigns. You may say that Crusaders do not represent Christianity, but you have to remember that the Pope, head of your Church, granted all who went on Crusades a free path to Heaven. Please see http://www.crusades-encyclopedia.com/cannibalism.html, or just watch the History Channel's special on the Crusades. I would think such a devout Christian as yourself would take pride in the Crusades and would want to know the details of those brilliant military campaigns. The references are from Christian sources, not Arab ones. Do you deny the Church's wholesale slaughter and torture of Jewry during the Inquisition? These are all known facts. You may say that these events do not represent "true Christianity," whatever that means. But then you are no different from Muslims who reject Islamists as unrepresentative of Islam. Face it - horrible, horrible things have been done in the name of all religions. And the people doing them have found passages in their scriptures to justify themselves. Why do we use books that are anywhere from 1200-3000 years old to guide our spirituality? It is fine to study them critically, but accept them blindly??? We don't use 1700 year-old science books, or grammar books. The whole thing would be laughable, if it weren't so deadly.

Shankardada2, you are quite fond of throwing libelous charges and accusations around, without providing a shred of evidence in support of your assertions of "fact," aren't you? If you have proof, produce it,, otherwise quit posting complete rubbish, like Crusaders devouring the corpses of Arabs they slaughtered! What independent and authoritative source provided this gem? Only an idiot would believe it, but even if, for the sake of argument, some Crusaders engaged in canibalism says nothing about the tenets of Christianity, an essential distinction that you don't care to draw because it doesn't suit your foul purposes. Again, exterminating Native Americans under the guise of "Christianizing" them says nothing about Christianity, but everything about the exterminators. The short of it is that you aren't interested in the truth, but in spewing bile, which has quite evidently eaten thorugh your facade of rationality. Better just to abandon it altogether...Finally, the Old Testament is seen by Christians as the root, the prophetic foundation, that came to fruition in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. The New Testament does not abrogate the Old Testament since, unlike the Qur'an, there aren't contradictions that need to be reconciled; the New rather fulfills the Old. See: http://www.i-amfaithweb.net/ot_prphcs_flflldby_yeshua.htm

Comment: The 21st century terrorist is a decieving enemy that preys on entities that leave themself vulnerable to attack(innocent). Doing nothing and dismissing the terrorist as cave people is not a viable option. The leadership of terrorist movements and their members take many forms, they are doctors, lawyers,businessmen, bankers, old, young, ,male female, political and religious leaders. Terrorist do not need to reinvent the wheel they can purchase the equipment and the scientist from former soviet republics most notalbly the 5 muslim states in central Asia. Could you imagine a President of one of those countries was to work with Al Queda. Remeber an attack does not have to be nuclear it can be biological(diseases) or chemical. This is a global crisis that needs to be deal with socially, economically and politically. Leaders of governments around the world must not even be tempted to support a terrorist organization. The consequences must be so severe that they must fear supporting terrorist groups because it would destroy their own self interest. If the social problems in countries are ignored it will come back to haunt us. Getting rid of terrorist organizations and their leadership and ideology is only half the battle. Working with governments around the world to implementing social change that would promote an ideology of prosperity. People will follow leaders who can better their lives here on earth. So, without social, political and economic reform military action will not have a long lasting impact. After World War 11 everyone had enough the consequences were so high that nobody never wanted to fight another Hitler. They did not alienate Germany after World War 2 instead they helped to rebuild it, WHY? because they wanted to create and enviornment where another Hitler would not emerge. Germany was alienated after world war 1 and was forced to pay astronomical amounts of money in reparitions to Britain, Russia and France. Post world war 1 enviornment made it easy for Hiltler to rise to power. The bottomline is ignoring terrorist movement which has penetrated every continent and class around the world would be a disaster. These movements and their powerful supporters must be confronted and defeated, if not we are in for a big one. The War on Terror is real you just have no idea how much is being done behind the scenes to keep America safe. There have been more than 50 terrorist plans thwarted since 9/11. You completely underestimate the enemy.

Oh, and one last thing - if the New Covenant abrogates the Old Testament, then your Christianity does the same thing your website accuses the Koran of doing. If it doesn't apply, then why the heck is it in the Bible?

Word to Shankardada2, get your facts straight, unless you'd really rather play the troll. Saul who became Paul, and who wrote most of the Christian epistles, could have been called a killer and subjugator PRIOR to his conversion to Christianity. According to tradition, he was put to death by the "civilized" Roman Empire, as was Peter, another NT author. John died in captivity and James fled Jerusalem when Rome sacked the city. Luke was a physician, Matthew a tax collector. Of course, none of this matters to you, does it? You'd rather just spew bile,. Suggestion: your "facade of respectability" needs work...

"If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' unkown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to him; you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God..." (Deuteronomy 13:7-11). Apologists for Christianity, the religion of peace, behold your own Bible!

Also see http://jihadwatch.org/

Islamist: http://www.islamistwatch.org/

No man who has died is going to crack the sky and save your pitiful Butts. Muslim or Christian. You people and your death wishes are going to get everyone killed. I wished the Bible said that if you commit suicide you can get to heaven. So all of you religious freaks can just go kill yourselves instead of taking the rest of us with you. For goodness sakes these books were written when they thought the world was flat.

Bush and Cheney must be impeached. What the F is wrong with the Dems and Nancy Pelosi.

Bush and Cheney must be impeached. What the F is wrong with the Dems and Nancy Pelosi.

Looks to me like the Taliban is the least of Mushie's worries in Pakistan. The whole country is sick of him and wants him out. That's what happens when you have hundreds of Madrassas teaching poor illiterate Muslims that their purpose in life is to memorize the Koran and kill those that don't believe as they do Not very useful skills if one wants to make a living, raise a family and have a measure of happiness in life.