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JUSTICE

Injection of Reflection

There's wide support for a death penalty, but those who carry it out are increasingly uncomfortable.

By Evan Thomas and Martha Brant | NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Nov 19, 2007

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  • Posted By: pmksky @ 12/26/2007 8:03:49 PM

    Comment: How can one expect civilization to evolve when a government is more worried about an offenders rights instead of the victims justice. The death penality is justified if it is protecting the innocent. For example, repeat offender pedophiles....they rob children of their innocence and take away thier life so to speak. Abusing children is like a drug to them, an addiction. No ammout of rehabilitation can change that. The prisions and jails are overcrowding, releasing dangers back into society, because human life has seem to lost value to many...not every case deserves the death penality, but the death penality does highlight just how softened the system has beome and criminal are taking advatage of it. For all of those who mention God...have you ever read the bible....it is filled with horror stories of atrocious crimes...some even committed via Gods request...with cruel punishments to teach us that their are severe consequences for breaking the law.

  • Posted By: Phylmore @ 12/14/2007 2:56:48 PM

    Comment: The only way I could be in favor of doing away with the death penalty is if we do away with abortion. Until then lethal injection is the way to go.

  • Posted By: audreyfitz @ 12/07/2007 5:57:38 AM

    Comment: Death Penalty is wrong, wrong wrong. No matter what angle you look at it from... we can debate the flawed system of so called justice that sees some people get life in prison while others get the death penalty. We can debate flawed trails that see innocent people being killed in the name of justice. We could discuss power hunger lawyers who won't give an extra 1o minutes over to someone's case and instead authorises the execution!! We could look at the contracting living conditions in the prisons of lifers and compare them to the living conditions on death row - to see the diffrence of our values to these people!! Its a disgrace, we should be ashamed of ourselves to let this happen. If your not doing something about this state authorised murder means you are aligning yourself with it.!! May God have mercy on our souls and strenghten us to fight to STOP IT. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and treat your neighbour as you yourself would want to be treated - and that means regardless, there is no get out clause to this command. Peace
    audrey

  • Posted By: tharpeg @ 11/29/2007 1:48:22 PM

    Comment: Why do the death penalty? I see it as your killing somebody else. I see it as the law say's they are guilty that's enough, just leave them in jail. But you want to go beyond the point, beyond that, your killing another human being. God see's this and God will punish those. If they are guilty them they will be punish by God. But a judge, who just want's to get paid and see people off in jail is just wrong too me, that's what I think of a judge.Someone who is working for the Government, and one last thing I think it is horriable to think of new ways to kill people. I wish who ever thought of this will go to hell. And for just reading this article makes me want to go into politics and change everything.

  • Posted By: The Vera @ 11/17/2007 10:23:39 PM

    Comment: I, personally, am somewhat ambivalent about the death penalty, but I do agree that if it is to be carried out, it should be painless.

    Everything I have ever read and heard about carbon monoxide indicates that it is painless. People simply "fall



    asleep and never wake up". If this is so, why hasn't this method been explored? (If it has, I haven't heard about it)

    • Posted By: William.king1 @ 11/20/2007 1:57:29 PM

      Comment: This has been explored. The Nazis had mobil execution vans in which the exhaust was re-directed into the compartment "transporting" the condemned. For those supporting the Death Penalty what could be more fitting than that they take their cue from the true prfessionals of death.

      • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/20/2007 7:26:39 PM

        Comment: I invoke Godwin's Law, and you lose.

        Actually there are likely many things that can be compared with the Nazi's practices, some of which should not be ignored because of the connectation. In anycase I am avocating N2, not Co.
        Sean

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/18/2007 11:53:26 PM

      Comment: CO2 creates a need to breathe rapidly. N2 does not. CO2 (carbon dioxide) or CO (carbon monoxide) can create panic like states. And the substitution of CO2 for air is thus detectable. N2 (Nitrogen) substituted for air is not detectable. No excessive panting, no turning red, just no O2 (oxygen).

      You description ???just falls over??? is much more characteristic of N2 than of CO2.

  • Posted By: SWesterhout @ 11/16/2007 4:32:45 PM

    Comment: Your article questions whether the public is ready to resort to executing convicts by a administering "a massive dose of barbituates--the prefered method for putting down sick pets." For clarification, the first drug of the 'three drug cocktail' administered during lethal injection is soduim thiopental, a barbituate.

  • Posted By: linda8615 @ 11/16/2007 10:00:04 AM

    Comment: if those in charge of administering the three drug cocktail are uneasy about their jobs,they should find new ones. and if there is a need for this job, i would gladly apply. i don't 'botch' needle insertions....

  • Posted By: linda8615 @ 11/16/2007 9:58:09 AM

    Comment: if some folks consider it a problem for them to give lethal injections to those that are truly guilty and convicted of heinous crimes, give me the needle, i can plunge with the best of them...

  • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:26:11 AM

    Comment: Ok,
    so breathing is in part controlled by the CO2 in the blood. In a pure N2 atmosphere, there will be less will to take a breath, and taking a breath will be natural. No panic, no pain. Just no O2. Maybe put a bit of NO2 (laughing gas) into the mix and then you have a painless way to die. And you never need to tell the criminal when the normal air flow is there and when the N2 only air flow is there. If the criminal evidences pain reactions while sitting in a chair when there is normal air flow, then s/he is faking. If the criminal starts pain reactions with normal airflow and laughing gas, they might be faking; Then flush out the laughing gas, and put (coin flip) normal or N2 in.Eventually fakes will be exposed, real pain will be noted (the pain of breathing air???) and the method validated.
    This could be used to kill food animals, thereby taking some of the sting out of the PETA/vegan arguments.

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:42:26 AM

      Comment: Arthur C. Clark's Childhood's End poses a challenge: how to live if you must suffer the pain of the death of the animal you are eating. This method should even pass that hypothetical test.

      • Posted By: bob j @ 11/17/2007 7:30:16 PM

        Comment: ah,,sounds also very good way,, laughing gas ,man die as he laughing,, maybe give observer witness some too,(without the nitrogen) then every body laugh ,one big happy party, i must tell friends in china about this revalation.

  • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:20:42 AM

    Comment: The course of action we take depends on our intent. If we are out for justice or vengence, we will have the criminal be paid one for one as s/he has done to the victims. But there are two arguements against this. One is that by lower ourselves to the criminal's level, we just further the cause of brutality, and sow the seeds of more brutal murders. The second is that it does not deter, (see pickpockets of old London picking pockets of perowho ahve been distracted by the hanging of a pickpocket), and we can not really know if we got the right person.

  • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:18:38 AM

    Comment: The course of action we take depends on our intent. If we are out for justice or vengence, we will have the criminal be paid one for one as s/he has done to the victims. But there are two arguements against this. One is that by lower ourselves to the criminal's level, we just further the cause of brutality, and sow the seeds of more brutal murders. The second is that it does not deter, (see pickpockets of old London picking pockets of perowho ahve been distracted by the hanging of a pickpocket), and we can not really know if we got the right person.

  • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:14:21 AM

    Comment: There is a way to kill that does not hurt. Details follow.

    NASA had an accident a large number of years ago where, IIRC, 3 technicians wandered into large space filled with nitrogen. They died. They were said not to suffer, and to go without obvous signs of distress. While one can not remove the psychological pain of being killed, the physical can be entirely removed. Introduction of laughing gass could further ease the pain. Introducting some uncertainty of when the normal air is replaced with the nitrogen (since I believe there is no way to tell) would allow the element of surprise, possibly further reducing the
    See:
    www.csb.gov/safety_publications/docs/SB-Nitrogen-6-11-03.pdf
    hss.energy.gov/CSA/analysis/jit/JIT_2006-04.pdf


  • Posted By: handyman @ 11/15/2007 6:51:19 PM

    Comment: Take them out the same way they did thier victims. Another death sentence put on hold today. Guy kills 11 yr old boy and left him in a foot locker. I am tired of all the bleeding hearts. Take them out and use my tax dollars for better things.

  • Posted By: Hamgem' @ 11/15/2007 3:30:46 PM

    Comment: I've been researching this topic since there has been so much controversy regarding it. What Ihave found sickens me. Criminals who have admitted to crimes are appealing the death penalty. If given lethal injection for raping and killing an 11 yr old boy or raping a woman in front of her 2 yr old son and then killing them both is cruel and unusual punishment, then what would you call the crimes committed against these victims? What about the consititional rights of these victims? Did they ask to be raped and killed? Did they deserve it? No they didn't! So why are so many citizens hung up on the humanity of these criminals? I'm not, I say they are getting off easy by lethal injection, they don't have to suffer the way their victims did!

  • Posted By: Hamgem' @ 11/15/2007 3:28:40 PM

    Comment: I've been researching this topic since there has been so much controversy regarding it. What Ihave found sickens me. Criminals who have admitted to crimes are appealing the death penalty. If given lethal injection for raping and killing an 11 yr old boy or raping a woman in front of her 2 yr old son and then killing them both is cruel and unusual punishment, then what would you call the crimes committed against these victims? What about the consititional rights of these victims? Did they ask to be raped and killed? Did they deserve it? No they didn't! So why are so many citizens hung up on the humanity of these criminals? I'm not, I say they are getting off easy by lethal injection, they don't have to suffer the way their victims did!

  • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/15/2007 10:23:45 AM

    Comment: Once again If you are going to tell me that some of the individuals do not deserve to suffer. they do not deserve to die. Then I will tell you, you have no idea what you are talking about. many of these convicted criminals are wouth redemption they are beyond reform. to be reformed you would first need to feal guilt for what you have done. they have not guilt they have no remorce. you speak of cost to execute the person but what this story fails to mention is the cost to keep them allive. the cost to execute them would be far less if there were not so many people in this world who think they have more rights than the people they killed. imagine the pain suffering and utter fear a 10 year girl must feal while being raped and killed then tell me they have the rights you mention

  • Posted By: thanhvanevc @ 11/14/2007 11:29:55 PM

    Comment: If they killed someone they have to pay . That s very fair for some one pass away... I know thats a hard lesson for those evil but they get what they done for others people.That also a lesson for other people to learned or to see before they start to do stupid thing a for anyone else.

  • Posted By: Braes @ 11/14/2007 10:06:29 PM

    Comment: Thou shalt not kill. In the first Murder trial we record Cain not being executed, but shunned for life. I am not a Catholic, but the comments of below from Pope John Paul II are fit and true. What we do when we kill an offender is barbarism. If we retain this process, I suggest using a single drug, Fentanyl. We know that there will be no suffering whatsoever, as it is a morphine analogue. If you push enough into an IV the condemned will simply die of apnea post consciousness. (Stop Breathing) They will not feel the cardiac arrest. The 3 drug cocktail and obviously botched examples sicken me. I do not believe I am made safer by spending millions to kill a person we already have in a cage. It is not a deterrent, it is vengeance. Even Christ stopped a stoning. Given the sickening cases of actual innocents being released from Death Row, I do not trust the judgement of mankind where killing is concerned. Let God decide to take them, after they have worked on a prison Farm at hard labor, for the decades of penance a life without parole or commutation would deliver.

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:38:50 AM

      Comment: You have a bad translation. I have been assured that the original said "Thou Shall Not Murder." Please correct your statements in light of a better translation.

  • Posted By: votenic @ 11/14/2007 7:40:20 PM

    Comment: 2008 Presidential Candidate Weekly Poll

  • Posted By: William.king1 @ 11/14/2007 5:09:56 PM

    Comment: A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary. (Pope John Paul II, St. Louis, MO, January 1999)

  • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/14/2007 4:33:26 PM

    Comment: OK here is the deal. I have read many of the comments below and as well as posting my own comments I have to point out that this whole argument that the death penalty is wrong because humanity is barbaric and immoral is only valid if the people making these comments are also willing to admit that they are part of humanity and thus barbaric and immoral themselves. This should really not be a surprise to anyone since we glorify violence on an epic scale. If this were not the case movie like Saw and Jackass would simply not exist. We love violence and we love watching other people in pain. Using this as an argument is simply insane. If we were not a barbaric race we would not have murder, rape and other violent crimes. Maybe you few are the ones that have not inherited these tendencies from our ancient ancestry. Then again maybe you watch ultimate fighter on Friday night and get exited every time a person starts to bleed.

  • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/14/2007 4:32:57 PM

    Comment: OK here is the deal. I have read many of the comments below and as well as posting my own comments I have to point out that this whole argument that the death penalty is wrong because humanity is barbaric and immoral is only valid if the people making these comments are also willing to admit that they are part of humanity and thus barbaric and immoral themselves. This should really not be a surprise to anyone since we glorify violence on an epic scale. If this were not the case movie like Saw and Jackass would simply not exist. We love violence and we love watching other people in pain. Using this as an argument is simply insane. If we were not a barbaric race we would not have murder, rape and other violent crimes. Maybe you few are the ones that have not inherited these tendencies from our ancient ancestry. Then again maybe you watch ultimate fighter on Friday night and get exited every time a person starts to bleed.

  • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/14/2007 3:34:53 PM

    Comment: Were to Start? This is just a broke sprocket in a justice system that does not turn anymore. The justice system must get a complete overhaul if we are to survive as a country. Capital punishment is a necessary evil. This should not even be a difficult choice. If a prisoners sentence results in a life sentence with no option for parole then an execution should take place. This should be an immediate and final response. This can only take place though after other problems are fixed. There is no such thing as justice anymore. The process of determining who is innocent and who is guilty is now based on fiction and has nothing to do with fact. A lawyer should not be allowed to have crucial evidence removed from the case based on technicalities and legal maneuvering. If a young girl is raped and the DNA evidence is removed from the case because the lawyer argues that the DNA sample was collected with out the proper paper work this is not justice. If a person is wrongfully convicted because the evidence to clear his name is blocked there is no justice. These are the things that must be fixed before we can tolerate the death penalty. The justice system is simply broke. It no longer functions to the purpose it was intended by our founding fathers and must be corrected. The reason lawyers and judges are so reluctant to use capital punishment is because they acknowledge that the system is broke. They have no idea if the person is guilty or innocent and after the legal maneuvering is done the only impression anyone is left with is one that clear shows justice is dead. If the figure of justice were created today this would not be a blind lady holding the scales this would be a half blind half deaf person who can have the scales tipped with the correct maneuver or dare I say the right amount of money.

  • Posted By: bob j @ 11/14/2007 2:32:08 PM

    Comment: my sympathies to mr Igillette,,it seems that the problem here lies with the judges and courts ,not performig their duty as prescribed by law , too many judges let thei personal feelings interfere with their good sense,( if any exist). what is needed is carefully written and prescribed laws,and a tribunal of judges ,(not just one) to enforce the written law. too many judges let their ego trimuph ,over duty and try to make law to suit themselves or what they feel is pubic opinion rather than to interpret the law as it is written.

    • Posted By: lgillette @ 11/14/2007 3:05:23 PM

      Comment: Although sympathy is NOT is not what she is after, a thank you is still extended. What is clearly needed is due justice from the western days..."Guilty sentenced constitutes a public hanging".

      • Posted By: bob j @ 11/14/2007 6:34:50 PM

        Comment: ms Igillette,sorry for the (mr) ,but no way to know,, yes agree,my earlier post recommended the guillotine ,but hanging would suffice. its just i believe the thought of guillotine would strike more terror into criminals ,the thought of being separated from ones head, and possibility ?? of remaining concious for a few seconds and realizing it ,,(see google) ,,as a deterant , i say maximum of 90 days of conviction and sentence ,but again ,must be absolute proof ,no circumstantial. this must be writen into law.

  • Posted By: lgillette @ 11/14/2007 12:22:05 PM

    Comment: I, and my family, have been waiting for justice to take affect for close to 25 years. John Visciotti murdered my 22 yr old brother November 8, 2002. He was sentenced October 21, 1983; and received on death row October 26, 1983. There has been NO activity to move the process along. The US Supreme Court reversed the Ninth Circuit Court's ruling on the penalty phase in the later part of 2002. However, Visciotti and his counsel contends that the Ninth Circuit still has to rule on the same issue, ineffective counsel at the penalty phase, based on matters not considered in the US Supreme Court's opinion. In 2003, the Ninth Circuit ordered briefing to see if there was further for them to decide - this briefing was completed that summer AND they still have not decided, thus the case has not been remanded back to the District Court for further proceedings. Last year, Judge Real set this case for evidentiary hearing on three issues: ineffective assistance of counsel at the penalty phase (again), preservation of Visciotti's blood sample, and constitutionality of lethal injection. This first issue, ineffective assistance of counsel at the penalty phase was already decided by the US Supreme Court in 2002 (they still are the higher court, right?); we filed a petition for write of mandate with the Ninth Circuit asking the court to vacate the order. We, again, had to get the Supreme court to step in, and the Supreme Court stayed the hearing and sent it back to the Ninth Circuit for a final ruling. All briefing in the Ninth Circuit was completed in June 2007 - we are waiting for a ruling form the Ninth Circuit...and most likely, whoever loses will appeal to the Supreme Court - again! And now we await to see what the Supreme Courts ruling will be on the constitutionality of lethal injection? This entire process is hopeless and far too frustrating on a murdered victim's family. Our system basically caters to the guilty and not the innocent. I only wish to have had 25 more years with my brother, Timothy Dykstra NOT 25 years of anguish and hurt. The State appellate courts have rules requiring decisions to be made within a specified period - where are the rules for the Federal Courts? Oh right, they have none! Someone get them off their "collective arses" and get this system working.

  • Posted By: lgillette @ 11/14/2007 12:05:31 PM

    Comment: Waiting on Justice...waiting to say farewell to a cold blooded killer! I, and my family, have been waiting for justice to take affect for close to 25 years. John Visciotti murdered my 22 yr old brother November 8, 2002. He was sentenced October 21, 1983; and received on death row October 26, 1983. There has been NO activity since last year; unless of course you want to call senseless apeals activity (tax payers dollars at therir best). The US Supreme Court reversed the Ninth Circuit Court's ruling on the penalty phase in the later part of 2002. However, Visciotti and his counsel contends that the Ninth Circuit still has to rule on the same issue, ineffective counsel at the penalty phase, based on matters not considered in the US Supreme Court's opinion. Last year, Judge Real (Ninth Circuit Court Judge)set this case for evidentiary hearing on three issues: ineffective assistance of counsel at the penalty phase, preservation of the killer's blood sample, and constitutionality of lethal injection. The DA's office believes that the first issue, ineffective assistance of counsel at the penalty phase, was already decided by the United States Supreme Court in 2002, and have filed a petition for writ of mandate with the Ninth Circuit asking that court to vacate the order for
    the evidentiary hearing. They had to get the Supreme Court to step in, and the Supreme Court stayed the hearing and sent it back to the Ninth Circuit for a final ruling. All briefing in the Ninth Circuit was
    completed on June 22, 2007. We are waiting for a ruling from the Ninth Circuit, in the case identified above. Most likely, whoever loses that ruling will appeal to the Supreme Court. This entire process is hopeless and far too frustrating on the victim's family. Our system basically caters to the guilty and not the innocent. I only wish to have had 25 more years with my brother, Timothy Dykstra NOT 25 years of anguish and hurt. The State appellate courts have rules requiring decisions to be made within a specified period - where are the rules for the Federal Courts? Oh yeh, they have none! Someone get them off their "collective arses" and get this system working.

  • Posted By: bob j @ 11/13/2007 10:40:12 PM

    Comment: of course in China ,we also have the mobile execution vans,which make regular runs through the countryside. these do use lethal injecion mode. and are manned by medical team soldiers of the peoples' liberation army. it is a very effecient way to perform executions with least muss and fuss. often the clients are elders who no longer wish to continue with their life,or have become a burden on their families . some are ones convicted in absentia, by the peoples' courts ,and saves bring them in for execution. and some are children in excess of the one child limit .if the odffending parents agree to execution ,then they are not arrested and charged with the very serious crime of excess children .anyhow the teams have lists and make their trips and duties in a very effecient manner .right now disposal of the bodies are left up to families ,but there are mobile cremantoriums soon to be available ,and increase the effeciently greatly.

  • Posted By: bob j @ 11/13/2007 10:10:05 PM

    Comment: to pops who suggested that the guillotine execution be made public ,that is very fine idea. would be much greater deterrant that way.,of course in china people are allowed to watch executions if they want ,in olden days they were carried out in town squares ,and had a large audience ,but today in more civil times they have been moved to countryside ,and many people cannot make journey by bicycle and also since the condemmend's family can retreive the body after the execution ,and the organs are harvested,it is difficult to take body back to town on bicycle,so often is just left to be dozed under where is at. but still it is a very high deterrant ,as word gets back by ones who can manage to attend.

  • Posted By: corncrik @ 11/13/2007 6:53:58 PM

    Comment: I wonder if the same people that are so against the death penalty are the the same ones that are so admant for abortion? I guess it is better to let a man who would bury a little girl alive after he raped her to live than the innocent ones that are murdered every day? What is the total abortions in the USA????thousands.........

  • Posted By: corncrik @ 11/13/2007 6:48:06 PM

    Comment: I wonder if the same people that would abolish the death penalty are the ones that are for abortion? It seems that no one is worrying abourt those who are innocent, but want to preserve the life of a man that would bury a young girl alive after he raped her. Just a thought!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: bob j @ 11/13/2007 6:32:01 PM

    Comment: in china they have very good way not only for murder,rape or othher violent,but drugs too if catch with drugs ,go before tribunal ,policeman present evidence, if guilty ,you are taken outside loaded on truck, with other guilties and taken out into countryside,there you are made to stand before prepared trench and officer with pistol shoot you in back of head,you fall into trench and soon are covererd up and at peace. later versions of this ,have you shot on flat ground ,by soldier with ak 47 or sks rifle in the spine instead of head ,,death also is instantanious as spinal cord is severerd ,then your organs may be harvested ,then after your organs are removed the rest of you and others are pushed into trench by bulldozer,and finally covererd..this method has not only reduced murder and rape in china ,but has mostly eliminated drugs too. a very good way.

  • Posted By: mshook12 @ 11/13/2007 6:03:38 PM

    Comment: Seigrella, a real MD would know that doctors are NOT required to perform the "lethal" techniques. A doctor is required to be present for the purpose of alleviating any unecessary pain during botched executions, but usually it will be a paramedic who actually performs the injections. Seigrella is either lying about being an MD, or like many MD's, has more ego than intelligence.

  • Posted By: mshook12 @ 11/13/2007 6:03:11 PM

    Comment: Seigrella, a real MD would know that doctors are NOT required to perform the "lethal" techniques. A doctor is required to be present for the purpose of alleviating any unecessary pain during botched executions, but usually it will be a paramedic who actually performs the injections. Seigrella is either lying about being an MD, or like many MDs, has more ego than intelligence.

  • Posted By: seigrella @ 11/13/2007 5:18:36 PM

    Comment: As an MD I was sworn to heal the sick and minimize their suffering . It is not the healer's job to kill, but to alleviate suffering. If society is bent on killing, and I am not passing any moral judgement on this, then we should have non-MD lay people whose job is to execute. Let not the hand that heals you be the one that kills you ...

  • Posted By: seigrella @ 11/13/2007 5:10:43 PM

    Comment: As a Medical Doctor I took a vow to Heal NOT to Kill. If society is bent on the death penalty, and I am not making any moral judgements on the issue, tThen we should have trained executors to carry it. Once again, it is not the healer''s duty to end a life but the executioner's.

  • Posted By: sandyd1978 @ 11/13/2007 5:01:22 PM

    Comment: I do worry that an innocent person may be executed. But at the same time, I don't like the thought that there are so many people distraught over the pain a horrible individual may feel as justice is carried out. There was little regard given to the victim of the crime, so I feel very little compassion for the criminal. If that person had killed your child or parent, etc., would their discomfort weigh heavily on your mind? Probably not. I agree though that if the death penalty is abolished, some of the luxuries enjoyed by inmates needs to be abolished as well. They should be given the absolute basics of life and none of the 'extras' they now enjoy.

  • Posted By: JMux @ 11/13/2007 4:34:39 PM

    Comment: I go back and forth on the death penalty. On one hand, I hate the thought of executing an innocent person - but on the other hand, people who do horrible, sadistic things don't deserve to breathe our air. To think that a person who murdered a child gets the opportunity to graduate from college, paid for by the tax dollars of the parents of their victim - how messed up is that? I'd feel better about life in prison without parole versus the death penalty if prison held no luxuries. And I also hate that people seem more concerned with the prisoner, the convicted felon!, than the victim. Talk about jacked up priorities! Perhaps we should let the punishment truly fit the crime. They didn't give any consideration to the victim, so why should any consideration be given to them? They should receive as "cruel and unusual" punishment as they were dished out. I bet that would make criminals think twice about what they're doing!

  • Posted By: giord1la @ 11/13/2007 4:25:07 PM

    Comment: did theses death row inmates murder in a humane way.................NOT

  • Posted By: giord1la @ 11/13/2007 4:24:14 PM

    Comment: I will bet the convicts on death row did not murder in a humane way

  • Posted By: buster @ 11/13/2007 4:02:28 PM

    Comment: So was it not "cruel and unusual punishment" that the victims went through?? This makes me so angry. These men/women lost that right when they killed. Let them suffer so they can feel what their victims went through. I don't feel one ounce of sorrow for anyone who is put to death.

  • Posted By: William.Demuth @ 11/13/2007 3:39:15 PM

    Comment: Good work my fellow humans, you just go ahead and keep rationalizing murder just like your ancestors did, and just as those who might someday kill you are doing right now. Murder is ALWAYS wrong, and can NEVER be undone. For those of you who are screaming out for vengeance, I would thoughtfully understand and might even applaud you if you took your personal assailants to task, but elevating murder to a role of the state is what the Romans did (Supposedly giving us the Christian Church) and what the Nazi's did (Giving us the Holocaust). It's time you collectively grow up. It is the role of the state to be rational and dispasionate in it's justice. You blood mongers do not want an enlightened democracy, you want a theocracy. Better be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

    • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/14/2007 3:51:24 PM

      Comment: I truly hope I get what I ask for! What I ask for is to pay for a sick person care. Rather than pay for one day in jail for a violent criminal. Pay for food and shelter for the poor rather than buy cable TV for the convicted murders. What I want is for us as a society to not tolerate people who state ???you collectively should grow up??? as if to exclude yourself. Society does not exclude any one person we are all part of it because we are all here. You would applaud if we were taking our personal assailants to task? Spend one moment with a Rape victim. Send one moment with the parents of someone who has had there loved ones taken from them. See how these acts have affected there lives and changed there path in life. Of course I could be wrong maybe you are the one that would rather tell a homeless child you can not help because we are paying for prisoners on death row to live like kings. If they have trouble finding someone to push the button call me!!

    • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 2:13:12 AM

      Comment: SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: jeffc5375 @ 11/13/2007 3:01:54 PM

    Comment: Nitrogen asphyxiation - Every condemned individual is aware of impending death in general, as a result of court proceedings, transport to the execution site, and preparation of the execution equipment. At the shortest time scale, however, nitrogen asphyxiation provides little warning of the moment when final unconsciousness arrives. The flow rate, pressure, humidity, and scent of initial air and later nitrogen gas could be made identical. An exchange valve could be designed for silent operation out of the subject???s sight, and it might be operated at the moment of some other distraction, such as opening a screen between the subject and any legal witnesses. This minimal warning before final unconsciousness, combined with the absence of painful physical trauma, make this procedure arguably humane.The painful experience of suffocation is not caused by lack of oxygen intake but rather because of a buildup of carbon dioxide in the bloodstream which is exhaled under normal circumstances.

    When a human (or any other mammal) breathes in pure nitrogen, they exhale carbon dioxide without resupplying oxygen. Nitrogen is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas that comprises approximately 78 percent of the Earth's atmosphere. As such, the subject would detect no abnormal sensation. This leads to asphyxiation without the painful and traumatic feeling of suffocation



    there is the answer to the debate, this is not new, this has been discussed as early as ten years ago, yet no one takes it seriously. either end capital punishment, or implement Nitrogen asphyxiation.stop messing around with this debate that takes up more time and more money.

    • Posted By: William.Demuth @ 11/13/2007 3:50:31 PM

      Comment: Sounds like it came from the lips of Heinrich Himler himself. Cold calm calculating anlysis of how to eliminate the undesirables in the most efficient manner possible. Makes me damn proud to be an American, because nothing is verbotten in the pursuit of homeland security. "Seig Heil"

      • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:34:47 AM

        Comment: Not cold, not calculating, just an engineering solution to a social problem. I did not look to find another such comment when I posted above. If society needs a painless way to kill criminals (or food animals for that matter) this is it. Frankly the method could be used with a special cell, and maybe a few days of delay, so that the moment of death is uncertain and unexpected. Or as Jeffc375 said, as fast as needed. As I mentioned, others have already died this way in industrial accidents.

  • Posted By: dma3045 @ 11/13/2007 2:43:29 PM

    Comment: Some people think and it says in the first part of the article that the victim would feel pain. The inmate is not the victim he is the convicted person. The victim in each case was killed by the convicted several years earlier. We as people need to stop and think about the real victims in the crime that was committed. I bet they felt pain just prior to dying. What about their rights. Know one thinks about them just the convicted inmates rights. The real victim had a right to live, but the inmate did not take into consideration about his/her rights when he/she killed.

    PS, no person who ever was put to death ever came back to say he/she felt pain.

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:50:39 AM

      Comment: If you will allow that anything that looks like it is feeling pain *is* feeling pain, then the criminals have felt pain when the execution is blotched. From bad ax weilders, to poorly done hangings, to frying in e-chairs, to blotched injections there has not been a fool proof way to ensure that the only agony the criminal feels is the terror of waiting to be executed. So now I and another suggest a foolproof way to ensure that only that level of unavoidable psychological pain is felt by the criminal.

  • Posted By: SoSilly @ 11/13/2007 2:42:02 PM

    Comment: Do you think any of the victims of these murderers and rapists were killed without pain and suffering? Were they given an injection to put them to sleep? I bet not. I cannot even imagine the fear the victims suffered. Now everything is about the person in prison. I thought if you committed a crime you lost your rights but it seems to me they have more rights than I do. I guess it makes no difference when the prisoners run the prisons now anyway.

  • Posted By: Lakoma @ 11/13/2007 2:39:01 PM

    Comment: The Eighth Amendment should not be a right that prisoners deserve. What happened to the rights of the victims? Was the rapist or serial murderer considering the victims Eigth Amendment rights? I will graduate with a criminal justice background and most of my professors will tell you that the criminal justice system treats the criminal better than the victim. We need to stop pandering to the person in jail and remember what they did that put them there in the first place.

  • Posted By: niesen*cali @ 11/13/2007 2:12:57 PM

    Comment: In order for "The Decider" to continue his title, he now relies on the young men of this country to face the firing squad on the front line of the Iraq war.

  • Posted By: niesen*cali @ 11/13/2007 2:08:44 PM

    Comment: In order to continue his title as "The Decider", he's gone to extremes to put the young men of this country on death row by facing the firing squad on the front line of the Iraq war.

  • Posted By: skyegale17 @ 11/13/2007 1:58:21 PM

    Comment: be put to death in the same manner you have killed. simple. How could anyone feel bad about killing someone the same way they have killed innocents? Its what they deserve..an eye for an eye...

  • Posted By: skyegale17 @ 11/13/2007 1:56:36 PM

    Comment: be put to death in the same manner you have killed..simple. How could you feel bad about doling out the same punishment to a convicted killer that he has committed against an innocent?

  • Posted By: skyegale17 @ 11/13/2007 1:56:30 PM

    Comment: be put to death in the same manner you have killed..simple. How could you feel bad about doling out the same punishment to a convicted killer that he has committed against an innocent?

  • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/13/2007 1:55:45 PM

    Comment: Let's see: If the state put's to death an innocent man, have they in fact not committed murder???????? Therefore: those involved in the murder of that innocent victim should be put to death!!!!! Shouldn't they????? According to the death penalty supporters and the eye for an eye supporters they should be!!!! Let's see, who should we execute???? The judge??? The prosecutor???? The 12 jurists???? The police??? The witnesses who gave false testimony?????? They are all culpable in this scenario I've created for you death penalty supporters. They all helped to have an innocent man executed!!! Shouldn't they all suffer the ultimate penalty???? They are guilty of convicting an innocent man to death!!!! WHAT SAY PEOPLE??????
    Or is it okay because it was state sanctioned murder and therefore the same rules don't apply????? All those involved get a Get out of the gas chamber free card!!!!! Yea that's right don't do as I do, do as I say!!!!!!! Ther'e's a great quote!!!!!!! What's good for the goose is good for the gander!!!!! Justice is not blind in this country!!!! Just some of the "eye witnesses"!!!! Our justice system is about money!!!! Those that have it can get afair trial those that don't fry!!!!

    • Posted By: pismoclam @ 11/13/2007 8:36:24 PM

      Comment: I don't know????????do you???????Why the long use of question marks?????????are you trying to hammer home a point????????? If someone kills one of mine, don't worry about a judge or jury. Worry about ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 2:07:57 AM

        Comment: Of course I'm trying to hammer home a point!!!!!!!! Duh!!!!!!!!!! You are probably one of the same people that don't want the government running your health care, because they might screw it up!!!! However, you have no problem letting them mete out the ultimate penalty correctly!!!!!!!! That's the point!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: blpatterson @ 11/13/2007 1:41:37 PM

    Comment: I am for the death penalty in certain situation's. I live in Nebr and we have had Starkweather, Jubert and a few others. I was only about 10 or 11 when Jubert killed the 2 boys. In this instance he deserved the death penalty. I also remember in those years how scared I was and how there where other boys going missing and they where never found. I figure if you kill a child then they need to pay the price with your life.

  • Posted By: star222 @ 11/13/2007 1:37:01 PM

    Comment: HEL DO LIKE CHINA. ITHINK IT WAS THEY CURED THER DRUG PROBLEM THEY HOP E.GON IN START SHOOTING ALL THE BUZZARDS. LOT LESS TO FEED .MONEY IN THE STATES BUDGET TO PUT FOWARD TO CHILD HELTH CARE .AND SCHOOL.

  • Posted By: KJHeggart @ 11/13/2007 1:17:40 PM

    Comment: It really goes back to a mentality no bigger than "an eye for an eye," It is a tough one. If it were my child, raped and murdered or someone dear to me, the answer would be a no brainer. That said, that is not the everyday philosophy I carry with me on a daily basis. I think we have evolved, yet unlawful savagry begets lawful savagry and we except as a social norm. As a civilzed society who has hopefully learned from history, it is time to set an example perhaps. Besides, who could imagine a hell worse than life in prison with NO chance of parole? Food for thought.

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:53:28 AM

      Comment: And if it was your child raped and murdered, and you got vengeance on the wrong person in your haste to judgement? What a hell to pass on to another! But I tend to agree on the effects on society.

  • Posted By: star222 @ 11/13/2007 1:00:15 PM

    Comment: this is just whay they get. if they no with out a dought this person has killed some one.all the things add up putting he or she at the sene of the crime .then they should pay the price for taking another life.why dont they put this to a vote and let the people of the united states vote it in or out. ifeal like if you put fear in a man orwoman then thell think twise br efor they take some one child and or some one father@..if they are dead then they cant speak for them selves.other than leaving a clue for police to set and rack ther tails to solve the case. DNA TELLS THE TRUTH THAT HOW DEAD PEOPLETALK.. THEY ALSO DIDENT GET WHAT THEY WANTED FOR THER LAST MEAL.MR W. GOT A 2LETER COKE A GALLON OF ICE CREAM. THE WOMEN HE SLATERED LIKE ANIMALS. DIDENT GET TO SAY GOOD BY TO ANY ONE.ALL THEY DID WAS PRAY SOME ONE WOULD COME BY TO SAVE THE BUT IT NEVERHAPPNEDALL THER FAMLEY HAS IS PICTURES.

  • Posted By: s_man @ 11/13/2007 12:07:30 PM

    Comment: Raise your hand if you didn't want Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden killed. Are any of you raising your hands? Think about the day when those planes crashed into the World Trade Center. Did you think the death penalty was inhumane then? Please don't say that situation is different. Imagine you are the mother/father/sister/brother etc. of a murder victim. Do you consider the death penalty inhumane now? If the death penalty is not the answer then what is? I honestly don't have any suggestions and I don't think anyone else does either. We all agree that criminals must be punished for their crimes but how do we do that? I'm sorry sunshine_bright, but "abolishing mankind's aggressive, violent, and immoral innateness" is not a viable suggestion especially since the topic of discussion was the political/judicial use of the death penalty. I believe there will always be violence in the world so now we have the task of determining ways to deal with it.

  • Posted By: sunshine_bright @ 11/13/2007 11:55:44 AM

    Comment: Mankind is barbaric. Shake off the body hair and evolve! Violent of thought, aggressive of nature, rebellious and mean of spirit, we are commiting mass euthanization anyhow. We argue whether or not to commit legal murder. Meanwhile we continue on our barbaric march to self destruction. Of course there should be no death penalty. No one pays in advance to enter this place , no one should should have to pay to get out. Wake up your hearts, humanity. the time is here for real enlightenment. let the truth set us free, lest it kill us all.

  • Posted By: sunshine_bright @ 11/13/2007 11:47:04 AM

    Comment: the death penalty is a barbaric relic of mankinds' aggressive and bloody evolution; a process still continuing. mankind is generally violent of thought, aggressive of nature, and rebellious of spirit. until the subjects are adressed in our learning institutions, along with racisim, the blood will flow and the retributions will follow. we are still barbarians. gadgets and psuedo intellectualism, plus use of technology morality issues are destroying us as fast as our continued destruction of our domain. the only important question is what will wipe us out first as a people, unless we all reach for humane enlightenment. the death penalty should be abolished along with all of mankind's aggressive and violent and immoral innateness. live in peace and simplicity and let us all live in peace.

  • Posted By: s_man @ 11/13/2007 11:16:01 AM

    Comment: Unfortunately, the U.S. Judicial system is not perfect which is one cause of the ever-increasing crime rates in America. Criminals who actually committed a crime get off on technicalities, the innocent are imprisoned or sentenced to death. Yet what stops crimes from being committed? The death penalty was supposed to instill fear in those who commit severe crimes. Does it instill fear? I'm not so sure these days. However, I have been studying the death penalty in other countries. When the death penalty was taken away from some countries, the murder and capital crimes rates increased dramatically but when the death penalty was reintroduced those rates dropped again. However, those countries were smaller and considered "developing" countries. In a country the size of the U.S., I'm not so sure the death penalty has much effect. Criminals are no longer afraid that they will receive the death penalty. A new solution must be found and fast before the U.S. crime rate goes up any further. I think that the first step is to examine the judicial system and maybe even reconstruct it.

    • Posted By: arizoniac @ 11/13/2007 1:36:10 PM

      Comment: The reason the death penalty is not an effective deterant is due to the time lapse between sentence and carrying out the sentence. The average stay on death row is over 10 years, if they are even executed at all. If someone was sentenced to death had 6 months in which to file an appeal - deny the appeal - and execute that person - I bet it would that would work to deter crime. Better yet take em staright from the court room to lethal injection - that would save millions of dollars of tax-payers money.

    • Posted By: arizoniac @ 11/13/2007 1:34:44 PM

      Comment: The reason the death penalty is not an effective deterant is due to the time lapse between sentence and carrying out the sentence. The average stay on death row is over 10 years, if they are even executed at all. If someone was sentenced to death had 6 months in which to file an appeal - deny the appeal - and execute that person - I bet it would that would work to deter crime. Better yet take em staright from the court room to lethal injection - that would save millions of dollars of tax-payers money.

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 2:09:51 AM

        Comment: It's got nothing to do with the time lapse. They hung them the next day in the old west!!! Guess what??? It didn't stop crime back then and it won't stop it now either!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: s_man @ 11/13/2007 11:14:24 AM

    Comment: Unfortunately, the U.S. Judicial system is not perfect which is one cause of the ever-increasing crime rates in America. Criminals who actually committed a crime get off on technicalities, the innocent are imprisoned or sentenced to death. Yet what stops crimes from being committed? The death penalty was supposed to instill fear in those who commit severe crimes. Does it instill fear? I'm not so sure these days. However, I have been studying the death penalty in other countries. When the death penalty was taken away from some countries, the murder and capital crimes rates increased dramatically but when the death penalty was reintroduced those rates dropped again. However, those countries were smaller and considered "developing" countries. In a country the size of the U.S., I'm not so sure the death penalty has much effect. Criminals are no longer afraid that they will receive the death penalty. A new solution must be found and fast before the U.S. crime rate goes up any further. I think that the first step is to examine the judicial system and maybe even reconstruct it.

  • Posted By: freechris1983 @ 11/13/2007 10:54:57 AM

    Comment: I dont agree with the death penalty. I agree that people should pay for their crimes but it is unfairly used. People with money get off all the time for the same crimes people without money get the death penalty for. A murder is a murder so who should decide if this murder is worse than that murder when in the end someone loss their life. Kill them all or let them all live. Anyone can apologize for what they did and anyone can learn from thier mistakes. But what makes a robbery killer get the death penalty but a pedophile killer get psyciatric help and 20 years whats the difference.

  • Posted By: freechris @ 11/13/2007 10:53:01 AM

    Comment: I dont agree with the death penalty. I agree that people should pay for their crimes but it is unfairly used. People with money get off all the time for the same crimes people without money get the death penalty for. A murder is a murder so who should decide if this murder is worse than that murder when in the end someone loss their life. Kill them all or let them all live. Anyone can apologize for what they did and anyone can learn from thier mistakes. But what makes a robbery killer get the death penalty but a pedophile killer get psyciatric help and 20 years whats the difference.

  • Posted By: TiffaHeart @ 11/13/2007 9:06:16 AM

    Comment: I strongly believe in life imprisonment ... we are living in the "enlightment" era so why the hate, revenge and barbaric punishments? Regardless of the way the crime had been committed taking a life for another does not equal to making it right for a closure. This is another murder but done in the court of law and witnessed by families of victims. Does this justify an eye for an eye?! The system and the courts realized that many guilty on death row have been exonerated of their crimes through DNA. Moreover, life imprisonment is harder punishment than doing a quick one with the death penalty. Maybe we should not judge too quick or think that the death penalty is the solution to solve high crime rate or the manner which it was committed when (at the moment) our emotion was on "high". This is a compassionate nation not a murderous one which do away with criminals in the most barbaric ways and making it a public spectacle like in some Mid East countries and Asia.

  • Posted By: corso @ 11/13/2007 7:37:42 AM

    Comment: only individuals are allowed to feel all the disgust and repulsion for a bad crime. NOT THE STATE. it's a legal issue. .the state cannot be allowed "to feel". cannot have revenge. cannot kill. therefore NO capital punishment.

  • Posted By: corso @ 11/13/2007 7:34:11 AM

    Comment: no to capital punishment. simply because "the state" cannot have revenge. the state cannot "feel". the state cannot kill.

    • Posted By: pops @ 11/13/2007 11:47:32 AM

      Comment: How about the families of the victims?They want revenge,they feel.They want the state to execute those
      low lives.I would like to see public executions,by GUILLOTINE.[I feel for the Victims]Lets see if this is not a deterrand.

      • Posted By: lgillette @ 11/14/2007 3:00:07 PM

        Comment: I'm with you Pops...easy for others to speak against the death penalty and lethal injection, or others means of due execution when they have not been the victim of a muderous act. Why is someone so quick to plead for the lives of the guilty when the guilty did not listen to the pleas of the innocent?

      • Posted By: maylene1925 @ 11/13/2007 8:59:44 PM

        Comment: Would you be willing to be the test case for the function of the new GUILLOTINE? By that I mean, strapped onto the bed ot the device and then have the blade fall and chop off your head? It would be a useful test case, and could be televised and then voted on by the people of the country. Since, you are so sold on your idea, why don't you give it a try? You'd die for a good cause, and if the guillotine were rejected, you might pick up the Darwin award.... Come 'on pal, go for it!

      • Posted By: maylene1925 @ 11/13/2007 8:55:06 PM

        Comment: That's find as long as we can use YOU to test the guillotime. Need to make sure that it works before adopting it for sanctioned use. Are you willing to be the test case? You'd die for a good cause...

      • Posted By: star222 @ 11/13/2007 1:10:34 PM

        Comment: hell yea

  • Posted By: GINGERMAN @ 11/13/2007 7:22:33 AM

    Comment: What ever happened to An Eye for an eye?!. To often these groups complain about what kind of pain and unusual punushment these prisioners go through!. BULL CRAP!. WHAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT IS LEFT FOR THE VICTIMS THEY LEAVE BEHIND!. RAPE MURDER. MOLESTATION OF CHILDREN BEATING TO DEATH AND IT GOES ON AND ON!. VICTIMS ARE LEFT WITH THESE CRIMES AGAINST THEM FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES AND THEIR FAMILIES!. When are these people going to pay for what they do?!. And then we HAVE to PAY FOR THEIR SCHOOLING IN SIDE MORE BULL!. COLOR TV!. EDUCATION THEY RECIEVE FOR FREE!. WHEN WE ARE TAXED TO DEATH AND CHARGED AN ARM AND AN LEG FOR EDUCATION. MORE AND MORE CRAP!. WHEN ARE HONEST PEOPLE GOING TO BE CREDITED FOR LIVING CRIME FREE!.

    • Posted By: William.Demuth @ 11/13/2007 7:55:04 AM

      Comment: So now we are bound by the laws of a Baylonian Dictator named Hamurabi, who violently ruled his land as a self apointed god appoximatley 3800 years ago? Before Christians try the scripture routine they had better make an effort to be better informed. "Lex Talionis" as a theory of law assumes the DIVINITY of the state, and is clearly illegal, immoral and archaic. Either it is immoral to kill, or it is not. If it is ever acceptable to kill, whom among us shall be given the power to determine who is or is not worthy of life? While I agree prisoners have far to many costly luxuries, the same principal could be rationally (and actually have been) applied to anyone on welfare, social security, or any other form of public support.

  • Posted By: bob j @ 11/13/2007 4:37:13 AM

    Comment: should have to prove beyond a shadow of doubt,,not just reasonable doubt ,so no mistake. then execute right away ,say within 90 days. and bring back guillotine , no pain ,absolutely instant. it come down swoosh,,clunk,, head roll off on floor ,you dont feel nothing ,you gone ,have convict mop up floor and you all done,,Next?

  • Posted By: aztexinv @ 11/13/2007 4:15:20 AM

    Comment: Why shouldnt we Exacute them by what ever means for did they care about the suffering iof those they killed that answer is no

  • Posted By: june_bug_777 @ 11/12/2007 7:57:26 PM

    Comment: Child rapists and molesters can not be rehabbed. They should be killed.

  • Posted By: lucky @ 11/12/2007 5:29:52 PM

    Comment: This is about BUSH! He's the govenor of texas and he enforce the state laws,so that makes him accountable with the rest of the people thats all 4 death 4 an death.So do u call them god Angel4justice.But the article is about lethal injestion not BUSH. VOTE HILLIARY CLINTON (D).

    • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 5:54:28 PM

      Comment: Lucky, I would never vote for that moronic fool! She is a disgrace to our country and no she doesn't need to be there. she doesn't know what she is doing! She is in with the Chinese, if you recall the deal a few months ago and hasn't given any of that $$ back and she is trading with them, however, they are not trading with us like agreed. And they have so many IOUs on us due to her and that husband of hers! No I won't vote for Clinton!!!!!!!!!! Get more info on her too, please, before you vote for her!

      • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/13/2007 9:26:15 AM

        Comment: This is way off of the topic but you have made me curious. How exactly is a U.S. Senator trading with the Chinese? If you are talking about any campaign money she might have gotten you are wrong, it was returned. That, however, would have nothing to do with being "in with the Chinese" or thier trade policies with the U.S. What I.O.U.s do they have on us due to Bill Clinton? You are far off topic with this rant and I am not even sure what you are talking about. Maybe you should get more info? And no, I am not a Clinton supporter. I do support the truth though.

        • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/13/2007 11:41:25 AM

          Comment: Dude, this is off the topic but lucky and i were having our conversation. no one said you had to get into it. go support whomever the truth or not, i don't care but it effects us all if you don't vote for the one that is truth and i strongly support the truth as well so dont' come back at me with that crap. got it? get your facts straight!

          • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/13/2007 11:48:11 AM

            Comment: In the first place, I didn't think that this was a board for private conversations so I can get into it invited or not. In the second place, I was asking a perfectly rational and reasonable question and not attacking anyone, so coming back on me in such a hostile way seems a little over the top. There was no "coming back on you with that crap" Simple questions based on factual information; I just asked you what you were referring to with the attack on Clinton and the Chinese. If you want to have a private conversation about the Presidential election maybe you could find a board that is set up for that purpose.

    • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 5:51:33 PM

      Comment: Oh if you only knew lucky........ hillary hell no I am not voting for that no moral, ugly, country betrayl fool! she is a moron and no woman needs to be president and hillary def. does not need it. We cannot make it with her. The nation will shut down. It's already bad enough!

      I can't beleive the idiots in today's world. I bet our forefathers would roll over in their graves if they knew!

      • Posted By: ruger14 @ 11/12/2007 6:05:33 PM

        Comment: Don't worry they are rolling over!

        • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/13/2007 9:28:23 AM

          Comment: Once again, off topic. What does this have to do with the death penalty? No woman needs to be President? Why not? Is there some defect in women that would cause them to make bad leaders?
          If the nation has not shut down under Shrub I am fairly certain that Hillary Clinton won't shut it down!

          • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/13/2007 11:46:48 AM

            Comment: A woman president?? She would only care about the children, which is a great thing, yes, but that is not the only thing a woman could do, she had to be able to retalitate against the countries that are causing us war and soga! She wouldn't do anything about the war but pull us out and that is why we are ok now, we are over there! If we pull out of the war and come back here and let it be, do you really honestly believe they will stop? No come on! She has no clue what she is doing. She makes me sick and I hope she doesn't get to become our president but if she does I am not concerened, someone will assiante her I truly beleive. If Clinton became president, I strongly beleive someone would get rid of her, she is not for this country! She is wrong for us as president. I would rather see her impeached instead of dead but someone out there in this decadent world would get her gone!! Not everyone is going to put her with her. She is saying one thing and will do another once elected and in office. But go ahead support her but don't get on her bad side, she and Bill have people killed all the time when they get nervous about someone spilling their news. google search list of dead people on clintons and when you type that in, see the list that comes up before your eyes!!!!! HA! It's sad but true!

            • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/13/2007 3:42:13 PM

              Comment: Wow, you are a mysogynist too! I have worked for many women in my life and I have always had good experiences with them. What children would Hillary be taking care of exactly? Her daughter is grown and they have no grandchildren. So, in other words, you have no idea what you are talking about. The assasination talk is just asinine, no one would go gunning for her just because she is a woman or because they don't like her. It takes a lot of time, money, and planning to pull off the assasination of a President these days so that is just stupid. I have always loved that "Bill and Hillary have people killed all the time" garbage, it's just as stupid as the only care about the children line.
              You have no idea what on earth you are talking about yet you tell me to Google dead people and Clintons and