JUSTICE

Injection of Reflection

There's wide support for a death penalty, but those who carry it out are increasingly uncomfortable.

By Evan Thomas and Martha Brant | NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Nov 19, 2007

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  • Posted By: pmksky @ 12/26/2007 8:03:49 PM

    How can one expect civilization to evolve when a government is more worried about an offenders rights instead of the victims justice. The death penality is justified if it is protecting the innocent. For example, repeat offender pedophiles....they rob children of their innocence and take away thier life so to speak. Abusing children is like a drug to them, an addiction. No ammout of rehabilitation can change that. The prisions and jails are overcrowding, releasing dangers back into society, because human life has seem to lost value to many...not every case deserves the death penality, but the death penality does highlight just how softened the system has beome and criminal are taking advatage of it. For all of those who mention God...have you ever read the bible....it is filled with horror stories of atrocious crimes...some even committed via Gods request...with cruel punishments to teach us that their are severe consequences for breaking the law.

  • Posted By: Phylmore @ 12/14/2007 2:56:48 PM

    The only way I could be in favor of doing away with the death penalty is if we do away with abortion. Until then lethal injection is the way to go.

  • Posted By: audreyfitz @ 12/07/2007 5:57:38 AM

    Death Penalty is wrong, wrong wrong. No matter what angle you look at it from... we can debate the flawed system of so called justice that sees some people get life in prison while others get the death penalty. We can debate flawed trails that see innocent people being killed in the name of justice. We could discuss power hunger lawyers who won't give an extra 1o minutes over to someone's case and instead authorises the execution!! We could look at the contracting living conditions in the prisons of lifers and compare them to the living conditions on death row - to see the diffrence of our values to these people!! Its a disgrace, we should be ashamed of ourselves to let this happen. If your not doing something about this state authorised murder means you are aligning yourself with it.!! May God have mercy on our souls and strenghten us to fight to STOP IT. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and treat your neighbour as you yourself would want to be treated - and that means regardless, there is no get out clause to this command. Peace
    audrey

  • Posted By: tharpeg @ 11/29/2007 1:48:22 PM

    Why do the death penalty? I see it as your killing somebody else. I see it as the law say's they are guilty that's enough, just leave them in jail. But you want to go beyond the point, beyond that, your killing another human being. God see's this and God will punish those. If they are guilty them they will be punish by God. But a judge, who just want's to get paid and see people off in jail is just wrong too me, that's what I think of a judge.Someone who is working for the Government, and one last thing I think it is horriable to think of new ways to kill people. I wish who ever thought of this will go to hell. And for just reading this article makes me want to go into politics and change everything.

  • Posted By: The Vera @ 11/17/2007 10:23:39 PM

    I, personally, am somewhat ambivalent about the death penalty, but I do agree that if it is to be carried out, it should be painless.

    Everything I have ever read and heard about carbon monoxide indicates that it is painless. People simply "fall



    asleep and never wake up". If this is so, why hasn't this method been explored? (If it has, I haven't heard about it)

    • Posted By: William.king1 @ 11/20/2007 1:57:29 PM

      This has been explored. The Nazis had mobil execution vans in which the exhaust was re-directed into the compartment "transporting" the condemned. For those supporting the Death Penalty what could be more fitting than that they take their cue from the true prfessionals of death.

      • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/20/2007 7:26:39 PM

        I invoke Godwin's Law, and you lose.

        Actually there are likely many things that can be compared with the Nazi's practices, some of which should not be ignored because of the connectation. In anycase I am avocating N2, not Co.
        Sean

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/18/2007 11:53:26 PM

      CO2 creates a need to breathe rapidly. N2 does not. CO2 (carbon dioxide) or CO (carbon monoxide) can create panic like states. And the substitution of CO2 for air is thus detectable. N2 (Nitrogen) substituted for air is not detectable. No excessive panting, no turning red, just no O2 (oxygen).

      You description ???just falls over??? is much more characteristic of N2 than of CO2.

  • Posted By: danny7915 @ 11/11/2007 8:20:15 AM

    boo hoo, the poor pestilence is at it again...boo hoo you are going to inflict the punishment that i deserve on me,,boo hoo. I am so tired of hearing the whining and crying of the murderers and rapists of this country that it sickens me. Please give me something gentle to cure my pangs of remorse for them. I guess the only answer to their wailing is to keep them housed in these condos that the tax payers are forced to supply them. Please bring back justice for these slimeballs. If they arent satisfied with just going gently to sleep. Then lets establish a rule that you die the way you killed. Their victims didnt have a chance to choose the way they were to die ! Why are we so concerned about their mode of death. TO HELL WITH THEM, AND THE QUICKEST WAY POSSIBLE. It is high time this country started caring a little more about the victims of these people than about their way of punishment. I feel that the death penalty is way to lenient for this pestilence. They have fed on innocent peoples long enough. The only sure way to stop some of these repeat offenders is the death penalty..Hurray for its advocates,,thank you.

    • Posted By: eversoquick @ 11/17/2007 9:04:12 PM

      NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE LIFE AWAY FROM ANOTHER....THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK IT'S OK WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY. YOU ALL TALK ABOUT HOUSING THEM WITH YOUR TAX DOLLARS, WHAT A CROCK OF CRAP!!! IF THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T USE THOSE TAX DOLLARS FOR HOUSING PRISONERS, THEY'LL JUST USE IT FOR SOMETHING ELSE. MOST OF OUR TAX DOLLARS ARE GOING INTO THEIR DAMN POCKETS AND YOU ALL KNOW IT. YOU ALL HAVE THE PERFECT EXCUSE TO JUSTIFY YOUR BELIEF IN THE DEATH PENALTY, THESE MEN/WOMEN WHO MURDER ANOTHER ALSO HAVE AN EXCUSE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE... WHAT MAKES YOURS BETTER? THE BOTTOM LINE IS NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE A LIFE. NO ONE. EVERYONE WILL BE JUDGED ACCORDINGLY!!!

    • Posted By: NORMLKIP @ 11/11/2007 9:56:34 PM

      Have you not yet realized that the problem with these killers is they have no conscience. So it wouldnot matter to them how they die!

      • Posted By: lovelocklady @ 11/11/2007 10:40:05 PM

        Enwell Danny 79`5 why don't you get permission to whack them all yourself. Then you could feel justified for being such a great guy.ter Your Comment

        • Posted By: adirondack_1 @ 11/12/2007 7:19:46 AM

          There always will be opponents to the death penalty. Personally I feel the system always can improve however the penalty of death has an overriding concern, that a vastly larger benefit is gained by having the knowlege the penalty will apply in certain cases versus the criminal calculation that life behind bars is acceptable given the life he took was the reward he sought . This isn't about mistakes , it is about the penalty that some can never accept against those who can and do demand, require and expect it. The ultimate justice must be served upon those commiting the ultimate criminal act.

  • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:26:11 AM

    Ok,
    so breathing is in part controlled by the CO2 in the blood. In a pure N2 atmosphere, there will be less will to take a breath, and taking a breath will be natural. No panic, no pain. Just no O2. Maybe put a bit of NO2 (laughing gas) into the mix and then you have a painless way to die. And you never need to tell the criminal when the normal air flow is there and when the N2 only air flow is there. If the criminal evidences pain reactions while sitting in a chair when there is normal air flow, then s/he is faking. If the criminal starts pain reactions with normal airflow and laughing gas, they might be faking; Then flush out the laughing gas, and put (coin flip) normal or N2 in.Eventually fakes will be exposed, real pain will be noted (the pain of breathing air???) and the method validated.
    This could be used to kill food animals, thereby taking some of the sting out of the PETA/vegan arguments.

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:42:26 AM

      Arthur C. Clark's Childhood's End poses a challenge: how to live if you must suffer the pain of the death of the animal you are eating. This method should even pass that hypothetical test.

      • Posted By: bob j @ 11/17/2007 7:30:16 PM

        ah,,sounds also very good way,, laughing gas ,man die as he laughing,, maybe give observer witness some too,(without the nitrogen) then every body laugh ,one big happy party, i must tell friends in china about this revalation.

  • Posted By: SWesterhout @ 11/16/2007 4:32:45 PM

    Your article questions whether the public is ready to resort to executing convicts by a administering "a massive dose of barbituates--the prefered method for putting down sick pets." For clarification, the first drug of the 'three drug cocktail' administered during lethal injection is soduim thiopental, a barbituate.

  • Posted By: linda8615 @ 11/16/2007 10:00:04 AM

    if those in charge of administering the three drug cocktail are uneasy about their jobs,they should find new ones. and if there is a need for this job, i would gladly apply. i don't 'botch' needle insertions....

  • Posted By: linda8615 @ 11/16/2007 9:58:09 AM

    if some folks consider it a problem for them to give lethal injections to those that are truly guilty and convicted of heinous crimes, give me the needle, i can plunge with the best of them...

  • Posted By: KJHeggart @ 11/13/2007 1:17:40 PM

    It really goes back to a mentality no bigger than "an eye for an eye," It is a tough one. If it were my child, raped and murdered or someone dear to me, the answer would be a no brainer. That said, that is not the everyday philosophy I carry with me on a daily basis. I think we have evolved, yet unlawful savagry begets lawful savagry and we except as a social norm. As a civilzed society who has hopefully learned from history, it is time to set an example perhaps. Besides, who could imagine a hell worse than life in prison with NO chance of parole? Food for thought.

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:53:28 AM

      And if it was your child raped and murdered, and you got vengeance on the wrong person in your haste to judgement? What a hell to pass on to another! But I tend to agree on the effects on society.

  • Posted By: dma3045 @ 11/13/2007 2:43:29 PM

    Some people think and it says in the first part of the article that the victim would feel pain. The inmate is not the victim he is the convicted person. The victim in each case was killed by the convicted several years earlier. We as people need to stop and think about the real victims in the crime that was committed. I bet they felt pain just prior to dying. What about their rights. Know one thinks about them just the convicted inmates rights. The real victim had a right to live, but the inmate did not take into consideration about his/her rights when he/she killed.

    PS, no person who ever was put to death ever came back to say he/she felt pain.

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:50:39 AM

      If you will allow that anything that looks like it is feeling pain *is* feeling pain, then the criminals have felt pain when the execution is blotched. From bad ax weilders, to poorly done hangings, to frying in e-chairs, to blotched injections there has not been a fool proof way to ensure that the only agony the criminal feels is the terror of waiting to be executed. So now I and another suggest a foolproof way to ensure that only that level of unavoidable psychological pain is felt by the criminal.

  • Posted By: Braes @ 11/14/2007 10:06:29 PM

    Thou shalt not kill. In the first Murder trial we record Cain not being executed, but shunned for life. I am not a Catholic, but the comments of below from Pope John Paul II are fit and true. What we do when we kill an offender is barbarism. If we retain this process, I suggest using a single drug, Fentanyl. We know that there will be no suffering whatsoever, as it is a morphine analogue. If you push enough into an IV the condemned will simply die of apnea post consciousness. (Stop Breathing) They will not feel the cardiac arrest. The 3 drug cocktail and obviously botched examples sicken me. I do not believe I am made safer by spending millions to kill a person we already have in a cage. It is not a deterrent, it is vengeance. Even Christ stopped a stoning. Given the sickening cases of actual innocents being released from Death Row, I do not trust the judgement of mankind where killing is concerned. Let God decide to take them, after they have worked on a prison Farm at hard labor, for the decades of penance a life without parole or commutation would deliver.

    • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:38:50 AM

      You have a bad translation. I have been assured that the original said "Thou Shall Not Murder." Please correct your statements in light of a better translation.

  • Posted By: jeffc5375 @ 11/13/2007 3:01:54 PM

    Nitrogen asphyxiation - Every condemned individual is aware of impending death in general, as a result of court proceedings, transport to the execution site, and preparation of the execution equipment. At the shortest time scale, however, nitrogen asphyxiation provides little warning of the moment when final unconsciousness arrives. The flow rate, pressure, humidity, and scent of initial air and later nitrogen gas could be made identical. An exchange valve could be designed for silent operation out of the subject???s sight, and it might be operated at the moment of some other distraction, such as opening a screen between the subject and any legal witnesses. This minimal warning before final unconsciousness, combined with the absence of painful physical trauma, make this procedure arguably humane.The painful experience of suffocation is not caused by lack of oxygen intake but rather because of a buildup of carbon dioxide in the bloodstream which is exhaled under normal circumstances.

    When a human (or any other mammal) breathes in pure nitrogen, they exhale carbon dioxide without resupplying oxygen. Nitrogen is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas that comprises approximately 78 percent of the Earth's atmosphere. As such, the subject would detect no abnormal sensation. This leads to asphyxiation without the painful and traumatic feeling of suffocation



    there is the answer to the debate, this is not new, this has been discussed as early as ten years ago, yet no one takes it seriously. either end capital punishment, or implement Nitrogen asphyxiation.stop messing around with this debate that takes up more time and more money.

    • Posted By: William.Demuth @ 11/13/2007 3:50:31 PM

      Sounds like it came from the lips of Heinrich Himler himself. Cold calm calculating anlysis of how to eliminate the undesirables in the most efficient manner possible. Makes me damn proud to be an American, because nothing is verbotten in the pursuit of homeland security. "Seig Heil"

      • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:34:47 AM

        Not cold, not calculating, just an engineering solution to a social problem. I did not look to find another such comment when I posted above. If society needs a painless way to kill criminals (or food animals for that matter) this is it. Frankly the method could be used with a special cell, and maybe a few days of delay, so that the moment of death is uncertain and unexpected. Or as Jeffc375 said, as fast as needed. As I mentioned, others have already died this way in industrial accidents.

  • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:20:42 AM

    The course of action we take depends on our intent. If we are out for justice or vengence, we will have the criminal be paid one for one as s/he has done to the victims. But there are two arguements against this. One is that by lower ourselves to the criminal's level, we just further the cause of brutality, and sow the seeds of more brutal murders. The second is that it does not deter, (see pickpockets of old London picking pockets of perowho ahve been distracted by the hanging of a pickpocket), and we can not really know if we got the right person.

  • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:18:38 AM

    The course of action we take depends on our intent. If we are out for justice or vengence, we will have the criminal be paid one for one as s/he has done to the victims. But there are two arguements against this. One is that by lower ourselves to the criminal's level, we just further the cause of brutality, and sow the seeds of more brutal murders. The second is that it does not deter, (see pickpockets of old London picking pockets of perowho ahve been distracted by the hanging of a pickpocket), and we can not really know if we got the right person.

  • Posted By: seanearlyaug @ 11/16/2007 12:14:21 AM

    There is a way to kill that does not hurt. Details follow.

    NASA had an accident a large number of years ago where, IIRC, 3 technicians wandered into large space filled with nitrogen. They died. They were said not to suffer, and to go without obvous signs of distress. While one can not remove the psychological pain of being killed, the physical can be entirely removed. Introduction of laughing gass could further ease the pain. Introducting some uncertainty of when the normal air is replaced with the nitrogen (since I believe there is no way to tell) would allow the element of surprise, possibly further reducing the
    See:
    www.csb.gov/safety_publications/docs/SB-Nitrogen-6-11-03.pdf
    hss.energy.gov/CSA/analysis/jit/JIT_2006-04.pdf


  • Posted By: handyman @ 11/15/2007 6:51:19 PM

    Take them out the same way they did thier victims. Another death sentence put on hold today. Guy kills 11 yr old boy and left him in a foot locker. I am tired of all the bleeding hearts. Take them out and use my tax dollars for better things.

  • Posted By: Hamgem' @ 11/15/2007 3:30:46 PM

    I've been researching this topic since there has been so much controversy regarding it. What Ihave found sickens me. Criminals who have admitted to crimes are appealing the death penalty. If given lethal injection for raping and killing an 11 yr old boy or raping a woman in front of her 2 yr old son and then killing them both is cruel and unusual punishment, then what would you call the crimes committed against these victims? What about the consititional rights of these victims? Did they ask to be raped and killed? Did they deserve it? No they didn't! So why are so many citizens hung up on the humanity of these criminals? I'm not, I say they are getting off easy by lethal injection, they don't have to suffer the way their victims did!

  • Posted By: Hamgem' @ 11/15/2007 3:28:40 PM

    I've been researching this topic since there has been so much controversy regarding it. What Ihave found sickens me. Criminals who have admitted to crimes are appealing the death penalty. If given lethal injection for raping and killing an 11 yr old boy or raping a woman in front of her 2 yr old son and then killing them both is cruel and unusual punishment, then what would you call the crimes committed against these victims? What about the consititional rights of these victims? Did they ask to be raped and killed? Did they deserve it? No they didn't! So why are so many citizens hung up on the humanity of these criminals? I'm not, I say they are getting off easy by lethal injection, they don't have to suffer the way their victims did!

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