Injection of Reflection

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  • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/15/2007 10:23:45 AM

    Once again If you are going to tell me that some of the individuals do not deserve to suffer. they do not deserve to die. Then I will tell you, you have no idea what you are talking about. many of these convicted criminals are wouth redemption they are beyond reform. to be reformed you would first need to feal guilt for what you have done. they have not guilt they have no remorce. you speak of cost to execute the person but what this story fails to mention is the cost to keep them allive. the cost to execute them would be far less if there were not so many people in this world who think they have more rights than the people they killed. imagine the pain suffering and utter fear a 10 year girl must feal while being raped and killed then tell me they have the rights you mention

  • Posted By: thanhvanevc @ 11/14/2007 11:29:55 PM

    If they killed someone they have to pay . That s very fair for some one pass away... I know thats a hard lesson for those evil but they get what they done for others people.That also a lesson for other people to learned or to see before they start to do stupid thing a for anyone else.

  • Posted By: votenic @ 11/14/2007 7:40:20 PM

    2008 Presidential Candidate Weekly Poll

  • Posted By: bob j @ 11/14/2007 2:32:08 PM

    my sympathies to mr Igillette,,it seems that the problem here lies with the judges and courts ,not performig their duty as prescribed by law , too many judges let thei personal feelings interfere with their good sense,( if any exist). what is needed is carefully written and prescribed laws,and a tribunal of judges ,(not just one) to enforce the written law. too many judges let their ego trimuph ,over duty and try to make law to suit themselves or what they feel is pubic opinion rather than to interpret the law as it is written.

    • Posted By: lgillette @ 11/14/2007 3:05:23 PM

      Although sympathy is NOT is not what she is after, a thank you is still extended. What is clearly needed is due justice from the western days..."Guilty sentenced constitutes a public hanging".

      • Posted By: bob j @ 11/14/2007 6:34:50 PM

        ms Igillette,sorry for the (mr) ,but no way to know,, yes agree,my earlier post recommended the guillotine ,but hanging would suffice. its just i believe the thought of guillotine would strike more terror into criminals ,the thought of being separated from ones head, and possibility ?? of remaining concious for a few seconds and realizing it ,,(see google) ,,as a deterant , i say maximum of 90 days of conviction and sentence ,but again ,must be absolute proof ,no circumstantial. this must be writen into law.

  • Posted By: William.king1 @ 11/14/2007 5:09:56 PM

    A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary. (Pope John Paul II, St. Louis, MO, January 1999)

  • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/14/2007 4:33:26 PM

    OK here is the deal. I have read many of the comments below and as well as posting my own comments I have to point out that this whole argument that the death penalty is wrong because humanity is barbaric and immoral is only valid if the people making these comments are also willing to admit that they are part of humanity and thus barbaric and immoral themselves. This should really not be a surprise to anyone since we glorify violence on an epic scale. If this were not the case movie like Saw and Jackass would simply not exist. We love violence and we love watching other people in pain. Using this as an argument is simply insane. If we were not a barbaric race we would not have murder, rape and other violent crimes. Maybe you few are the ones that have not inherited these tendencies from our ancient ancestry. Then again maybe you watch ultimate fighter on Friday night and get exited every time a person starts to bleed.

  • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/14/2007 4:32:57 PM

    OK here is the deal. I have read many of the comments below and as well as posting my own comments I have to point out that this whole argument that the death penalty is wrong because humanity is barbaric and immoral is only valid if the people making these comments are also willing to admit that they are part of humanity and thus barbaric and immoral themselves. This should really not be a surprise to anyone since we glorify violence on an epic scale. If this were not the case movie like Saw and Jackass would simply not exist. We love violence and we love watching other people in pain. Using this as an argument is simply insane. If we were not a barbaric race we would not have murder, rape and other violent crimes. Maybe you few are the ones that have not inherited these tendencies from our ancient ancestry. Then again maybe you watch ultimate fighter on Friday night and get exited every time a person starts to bleed.

  • Posted By: William.Demuth @ 11/13/2007 3:39:15 PM

    Good work my fellow humans, you just go ahead and keep rationalizing murder just like your ancestors did, and just as those who might someday kill you are doing right now. Murder is ALWAYS wrong, and can NEVER be undone. For those of you who are screaming out for vengeance, I would thoughtfully understand and might even applaud you if you took your personal assailants to task, but elevating murder to a role of the state is what the Romans did (Supposedly giving us the Christian Church) and what the Nazi's did (Giving us the Holocaust). It's time you collectively grow up. It is the role of the state to be rational and dispasionate in it's justice. You blood mongers do not want an enlightened democracy, you want a theocracy. Better be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

    • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/14/2007 3:51:24 PM

      I truly hope I get what I ask for! What I ask for is to pay for a sick person care. Rather than pay for one day in jail for a violent criminal. Pay for food and shelter for the poor rather than buy cable TV for the convicted murders. What I want is for us as a society to not tolerate people who state ???you collectively should grow up??? as if to exclude yourself. Society does not exclude any one person we are all part of it because we are all here. You would applaud if we were taking our personal assailants to task? Spend one moment with a Rape victim. Send one moment with the parents of someone who has had there loved ones taken from them. See how these acts have affected there lives and changed there path in life. Of course I could be wrong maybe you are the one that would rather tell a homeless child you can not help because we are paying for prisoners on death row to live like kings. If they have trouble finding someone to push the button call me!!

    • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 2:13:12 AM

      SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: StillHere @ 11/14/2007 3:34:53 PM

    Were to Start? This is just a broke sprocket in a justice system that does not turn anymore. The justice system must get a complete overhaul if we are to survive as a country. Capital punishment is a necessary evil. This should not even be a difficult choice. If a prisoners sentence results in a life sentence with no option for parole then an execution should take place. This should be an immediate and final response. This can only take place though after other problems are fixed. There is no such thing as justice anymore. The process of determining who is innocent and who is guilty is now based on fiction and has nothing to do with fact. A lawyer should not be allowed to have crucial evidence removed from the case based on technicalities and legal maneuvering. If a young girl is raped and the DNA evidence is removed from the case because the lawyer argues that the DNA sample was collected with out the proper paper work this is not justice. If a person is wrongfully convicted because the evidence to clear his name is blocked there is no justice. These are the things that must be fixed before we can tolerate the death penalty. The justice system is simply broke. It no longer functions to the purpose it was intended by our founding fathers and must be corrected. The reason lawyers and judges are so reluctant to use capital punishment is because they acknowledge that the system is broke. They have no idea if the person is guilty or innocent and after the legal maneuvering is done the only impression anyone is left with is one that clear shows justice is dead. If the figure of justice were created today this would not be a blind lady holding the scales this would be a half blind half deaf person who can have the scales tipped with the correct maneuver or dare I say the right amount of money.

  • Posted By: corso @ 11/13/2007 7:34:11 AM

    no to capital punishment. simply because "the state" cannot have revenge. the state cannot "feel". the state cannot kill.

    • Posted By: pops @ 11/13/2007 11:47:32 AM

      How about the families of the victims?They want revenge,they feel.They want the state to execute those
      low lives.I would like to see public executions,by GUILLOTINE.[I feel for the Victims]Lets see if this is not a deterrand.

      • Posted By: lgillette @ 11/14/2007 3:00:07 PM

        I'm with you Pops...easy for others to speak against the death penalty and lethal injection, or others means of due execution when they have not been the victim of a muderous act. Why is someone so quick to plead for the lives of the guilty when the guilty did not listen to the pleas of the innocent?

      • Posted By: maylene1925 @ 11/13/2007 8:59:44 PM

        Would you be willing to be the test case for the function of the new GUILLOTINE? By that I mean, strapped onto the bed ot the device and then have the blade fall and chop off your head? It would be a useful test case, and could be televised and then voted on by the people of the country. Since, you are so sold on your idea, why don't you give it a try? You'd die for a good cause, and if the guillotine were rejected, you might pick up the Darwin award.... Come 'on pal, go for it!

      • Posted By: maylene1925 @ 11/13/2007 8:55:06 PM

        That's find as long as we can use YOU to test the guillotime. Need to make sure that it works before adopting it for sanctioned use. Are you willing to be the test case? You'd die for a good cause...

      • Posted By: star222 @ 11/13/2007 1:10:34 PM

        hell yea

  • Posted By: sundrips @ 11/12/2007 1:22:33 AM

    Stop the killings, all killings. How sick our Nation and our President are!

    • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 4:56:41 PM

      What does the President have to do with the death penalty? Why do people insist on ragging on Bush about everything? LA state "ragged" on him for the natural, again, NATURAL disater when Katrina came through back then. What you do not know I would guess is Clinton gave all our of top secrets on nuclear war fair and missles to China when he was in office. check the archives, google it if you want. But also he got an American company to teach/train them on how to make it and guess what, they are pointing directly at the US! Oh,also, sundrips, did you know that there is a list of dead people that the CLINTONS had or some they murdered themselves, when they thought they were going to tell their secrets..?? google search, list of dead people, clinton, and about 60 folks will be shown to you! Let's get off Bush he isnot that bad. I do not back him on evreything, NO but this isn't about him.....

      • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/13/2007 4:12:52 PM

        Oh good! More of the delusional rantings of our favorite conspiracy nut, angel4justice! Clinton gave China all of our nuclear secrets? And all of our missle secrets? And set up American companies to train the Chinese on making and using that technology? And he and his wife had people killed? And you know all of this from Google? Wow, that is one seriously unimpeachable source you have got going for you there! Almost as good as an eyewitness or real proof, right? If you believe everything you read on the 'net you need more help than anyone I know could offer.
        All of the accusations that you come up with are false; they are the products of some serious conspiracy fanatics and they stay alive because people like you believe them. And that's just nuts....

        • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 4:23:53 AM

          angel this guy is a total basket case!!! I feel really sorry for his family!!! I hope he doesn't have children and if he does, I hope he is not a big influence on their lives. Otherwise they could very well grow up to be sick and twisted individuals like himself!!!!!!!!! God help us all!!!!!!

          • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/14/2007 9:33:12 AM

            commuter, I agree. Some of the things this guy has posted are sick and twisted. I started off trying to argue the point with him that I am not so munh anti death penalty as I am opposed to the way it is handled in this country. Now I have given up because this guy is a nutcase!
            After all of the innocent people who have been released from death row in this country we can't even pretend that the system is working in such a way that we can ensure all of the people we put to death are truly guilty. Until we can be positive of guilt there is no way we should put people to death. We need to make damn sure that there are no innocents swept into this system and we need to make sure that people do get thier day in court in new evidence is found!

            • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 12:33:20 PM

              Angelus1967, That's been my point exactly the whole way through this board. Apparently, the nutcases like angel 4justice can't read and interpret what people are saying. Then if he doesn't like your opinion he has lash out through name calling and threats to your family! I'm glad to see there are some sane and rational individuals left like yourself. What you stated is exactly my point, the system is flawed, period!!! Did I ever say in any of my posts that I had sympathy for the murderer and none for the victims???? I did say I believe the death penalty is not as big a deterent to crime as some people believe it is.

            • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 12:33:16 PM

              Angelus1967, That's been my point exactly the whole way through this board. Apparently, the nutcases like angel 4justice can't read and interpret what people are saying. Then if he doesn't like your opinion he has lash out through name calling and threats to your family! I'm glad to see there are some sane and rational individuals left like yourself. What you stated is exactly my point, the system is flawed, period!!! Did I ever say in any of my posts that I had sympathy for the murderer and none for the victims???? I did say I believe the death penalty is not as big a deterent to crime as some people believe it is.

  • Posted By: lgillette @ 11/14/2007 12:22:05 PM

    I, and my family, have been waiting for justice to take affect for close to 25 years. John Visciotti murdered my 22 yr old brother November 8, 2002. He was sentenced October 21, 1983; and received on death row October 26, 1983. There has been NO activity to move the process along. The US Supreme Court reversed the Ninth Circuit Court's ruling on the penalty phase in the later part of 2002. However, Visciotti and his counsel contends that the Ninth Circuit still has to rule on the same issue, ineffective counsel at the penalty phase, based on matters not considered in the US Supreme Court's opinion. In 2003, the Ninth Circuit ordered briefing to see if there was further for them to decide - this briefing was completed that summer AND they still have not decided, thus the case has not been remanded back to the District Court for further proceedings. Last year, Judge Real set this case for evidentiary hearing on three issues: ineffective assistance of counsel at the penalty phase (again), preservation of Visciotti's blood sample, and constitutionality of lethal injection. This first issue, ineffective assistance of counsel at the penalty phase was already decided by the US Supreme Court in 2002 (they still are the higher court, right?); we filed a petition for write of mandate with the Ninth Circuit asking the court to vacate the order. We, again, had to get the Supreme court to step in, and the Supreme Court stayed the hearing and sent it back to the Ninth Circuit for a final ruling. All briefing in the Ninth Circuit was completed in June 2007 - we are waiting for a ruling form the Ninth Circuit...and most likely, whoever loses will appeal to the Supreme Court - again! And now we await to see what the Supreme Courts ruling will be on the constitutionality of lethal injection? This entire process is hopeless and far too frustrating on a murdered victim's family. Our system basically caters to the guilty and not the innocent. I only wish to have had 25 more years with my brother, Timothy Dykstra NOT 25 years of anguish and hurt. The State appellate courts have rules requiring decisions to be made within a specified period - where are the rules for the Federal Courts? Oh right, they have none! Someone get them off their "collective arses" and get this system working.

  • Posted By: lgillette @ 11/14/2007 12:05:31 PM

    Waiting on Justice...waiting to say farewell to a cold blooded killer! I, and my family, have been waiting for justice to take affect for close to 25 years. John Visciotti murdered my 22 yr old brother November 8, 2002. He was sentenced October 21, 1983; and received on death row October 26, 1983. There has been NO activity since last year; unless of course you want to call senseless apeals activity (tax payers dollars at therir best). The US Supreme Court reversed the Ninth Circuit Court's ruling on the penalty phase in the later part of 2002. However, Visciotti and his counsel contends that the Ninth Circuit still has to rule on the same issue, ineffective counsel at the penalty phase, based on matters not considered in the US Supreme Court's opinion. Last year, Judge Real (Ninth Circuit Court Judge)set this case for evidentiary hearing on three issues: ineffective assistance of counsel at the penalty phase, preservation of the killer's blood sample, and constitutionality of lethal injection. The DA's office believes that the first issue, ineffective assistance of counsel at the penalty phase, was already decided by the United States Supreme Court in 2002, and have filed a petition for writ of mandate with the Ninth Circuit asking that court to vacate the order for
    the evidentiary hearing. They had to get the Supreme Court to step in, and the Supreme Court stayed the hearing and sent it back to the Ninth Circuit for a final ruling. All briefing in the Ninth Circuit was
    completed on June 22, 2007. We are waiting for a ruling from the Ninth Circuit, in the case identified above. Most likely, whoever loses that ruling will appeal to the Supreme Court. This entire process is hopeless and far too frustrating on the victim's family. Our system basically caters to the guilty and not the innocent. I only wish to have had 25 more years with my brother, Timothy Dykstra NOT 25 years of anguish and hurt. The State appellate courts have rules requiring decisions to be made within a specified period - where are the rules for the Federal Courts? Oh yeh, they have none! Someone get them off their "collective arses" and get this system working.

  • Posted By: Beau de Malte @ 11/12/2007 2:02:28 AM

    My argument is based on our society. WHO CREATES THE KILLER. My son until the age of 12 was a happy,
    active outgoing youngster, with a great future. However, at school he was encountered by a teacher who had an unpleasent past - and found my son as great target. He abused him verbally until the boy lost his self esteem and is now struggling to cope with life. He is going down a difficult road and instead of the great futrure which beckoned he is now faced with a real danger of looking into alcohol, drugs and low life existance. The experts want to oput him on medication which side effects will destroy him, and possibly make him worse - we have decided not to do this instead we are giving him love and care. He is slowly getting back to normal. If however we had taken a diferent road - what would we have created ? Had he been left to the dogs - and he ended up oin the wrong side - would he or that pathetic teacher been responsible for the outcome ? That is what we need to discuss here and not if the death penalyts is right or wrong !

    • Posted By: Widgit @ 11/12/2007 2:08:44 AM

      Although you sound like you are going through some pain here, there are many that get ridiculed and taunted in school. They do not all become predators and killers. We also have to allow for the individual's ability to maintain a reasonable self-esteem. When we are out there in the world, most of us have encountered negative situations..........more than once...........that does not give us an excuse to molest, kill, and torture others.

      • Posted By: christopherkidwell1 @ 11/12/2007 2:30:01 AM

        This woman has a good point. Most of the serial killers in society today are raised in extremely religious families, as well as most of the murderers themselves being raised in conservative families.
        It seems that liberal families are much less likely to make these damaged-individuals, simply because we state to our children that there is no reason to kill someone else or physicallly attack someone else outside of a sport like boxing or karate.
        That is what I told my daughters, and it seems to have worked well because they are VERY non-violent individuals.

        Oh, and to the person below this post who says that 'child molesters recommit'...... of COURSE pedosexuals do! For christ's sake man, we are simply NORMAL people who are attracted to people who you have a problem with us being attracted to because you think children being sexually active 'makes them grow up too fast'..... but then you whine about them not growing up fast enough!

        It is simply time to allow children to be propositioned for sex in front of other people, and that would solve the problem of children truly being 'forced' into sexual situations against their will.

        • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/14/2007 9:37:36 AM

          christopherkidwell1 I foir one am very surprised that you have not gotten any feedback about your terribly disturbing post. You have daughters and you are advocating being able to proposition children for sex? You are lucky that no one has tracked down your computer address and turned you in. Have you not read the tone toward child molesters and rapists on this board? Your kind are reviled by all of us, even the ones who are not necessarily pro death.
          You need some help......

      • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 5:33:21 PM

        That is so devastating! I am so sorry to hear of your son, and the misfourtune he had to endure at those times! I hope and pray he is normal again one day as you put it. I am so sorry for your family as well!

        God blesses and heals!

  • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/12/2007 2:34:02 AM

    What's wrong with being a pacifist!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS WAS A PACIFIST!!!!! All you supporters of the death penalty seem to support JESUS too!!!!!!! If there were more pacifists in the world it would be a lot better place to live in!!!!! Probably a lot less killing both sanctioned and unsanctioned!!!!! Don't pile on with all the "BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL" crap either!!!!! Just cause your a pacifist doesn't mean you are against justice and punishment!!!

    • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 4:46:39 PM

      Cdog... I do not really understand what you are meaning to say but I support Jesus, yes and I support strongly the death penalty. If I rape your girl and then stuff her in a bag and dispose of her body, and I am convicted would you NOT want me to get the injection?? PLEASE! If everyone believed in Jesus then you wouldn't have this crap now! It's an ungodly world we live in and you are reaping the benefits of kicking God out! This is what happens when GOD is pushed out! I truly hope I do not offend you but I am little concerend what you meant by that statement about pacifiers!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 3:47:17 AM

        You need to read your bible dude, Jesus was a pacifist!!

        • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 4:44:29 AM

          Let me explain so even your simple little mind can understand!!!!!! Jesus Christ - Pacifist! Mahatma Ghandi - Pacifist! Martin Luther King Jr. - Pacifist! All these people achieved their goals through peaceful methods!! Hence the word pacifist!!! They didn't kill!! WHY you ask???? Very simple!! Because bloodshed begets bloodshed!!!! It's that simple!!!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 3:45:40 AM

        Angel4justice, Let me say this!!! you are a twisted and warped individual.I think maybe you are possibly a closet sadistic killer talking about raping peoples daughters and stuffing them into bags. The answer to your question is No I wouldn't want to kill you for that! I would like to beat you to within an inch of your life and have you beg for mercy every waking day of your life!!!!! That's punishment!!!! Because when I was done, guess what I will be back the next day and the next day!! to do it all over again!!!!! By the time I was done with your twisted sadistic little self you'd be praying for the death penalty!!!!!!!!

        • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 4:37:25 AM

          Oh, one other thing, When I get done beating you within an inch of your life everyday!! Then I'll let you go back to your prison cell to be raped and sodomized by the other prisoners every night of your pathetic little life!!! You've heard the stories about what they do to child rapists in prison haven't you???? Now that's Justice!!!!!!!!!! Then when you are finally freed of your torturous exsistence here on this earth may god have mercy on your soul! I doubt that he would though!!!!!!

    • Posted By: arizoniac @ 11/13/2007 2:10:22 PM

      God has never been a pacifist. Plagues, 40 days and 40 nights or rain, etc. Why should we be pacifists. When god got tired of human sin he wiped out everyone - not just the guilty.

  • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/12/2007 12:40:39 AM

    The bible also says if you eat shelfish you should be put to death!!!!! You should also stone prostitutes to death!!!! The bible is contradictory!!!!! You can make your case either way by quoting the bible. Canada and Europe don't have near the crime or murder rates per capita that we do!!!! They are very "liberal"!!!!! They don't have the death penalty!!!! Where is your argument for supporting the death penalty, because it deters crime!!!!!! That's b.s. and you all know it!!!! You right wingers are looking for nothing more than Revenge!!!! Not Justice!!!!!

    • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 4:58:56 PM

      THEN PLEASE COMMUTERDOG, TAKE YOUR DOG WAYS AND GO LIVE IN EUROPE OR CANADA IF YOU ARE SO FOR THEM! I BET THEY DO NOT WELCOME YOU!

      LIBERAL IGNORANCE!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 4:26:36 AM

        Right wing arrogance!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 3:31:38 AM

        Hey MR. right wing ignoramous/angel4justice!!!!! I can call people names too!!! I,ve been to Canada many times and guess what they welcome me with open arms!!!! My parents also have a summer home there. Guess what they do have??? A clean environment. They have health care for all. Their crime rate/murder rate is so much less than ours per capita it is pathetic!!! Here is the kicker!!! They don't have the death penalty!!!! Imagine that!!!! Guess what they do have Mr. NRA, effective gun laws!!! Oh by the way!!! Sticks and stones!!!!

    • Posted By: swoods03 @ 11/12/2007 12:50:55 AM

      yes, and thats under the old covenant, and a lot of things listed in the book of Leviticus(where im thinking your taking that right out of context from) is stated for health reasons. Think about it, shelfish still kills people todat who eat it....and if casual sex( saying casual sex because prostitution is illegal in most places in America now) stopped, aids and std's would not be transmitted as heavily as they are...

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/12/2007 1:42:06 AM

        What's wrong with The Old Testemant it's the word of God isn't it???????????

    • Posted By: swoods03 @ 11/12/2007 12:59:37 AM

      also, im not looking for revenge, or justice, im looking for safer streets for my children....no the death penalty will not ensure that...but i'd feel alot safer if known murderers were not walking free or given the option of parole, or the chance to break out of prison...because every prison has escapees sometimes...

  • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/12/2007 2:24:46 AM

    I would like nothing more than to see some of these people who have committed heinous crimes put to death!!!! Some don't deserve to breath another second!!!!! The problem is if the death penalty is on the books it is fallible period!!!!!!!!! Why, because we are human and we are fallible period!!!!!!!!!!! Death is final!!!!!!! You can't reverse it!!!!! If we kill an innocent man then we have bastardized the mantra of our system of justice and the credo it is to uphold!!!!!!!!!! JUSTICE IS BLIND!!!!!!! Ther's a good quote for this topic!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 5:30:52 PM

      Oh Ok now that's different. I thought you were saying all people should not ever never ever get the death penalty. I am menaing if they are convicted and or admit to it or what have ya'! I do see your point about death being final, of course, but look at the man that killed the 9 yr. old girl and finally was in court about it, if they don't give him the death penalty, he has life, her death is over. as you said, it can't be reversed. And her daddy had to sit there and look at him (the killer) and listen to all what he had done to his daughter, and he can't ever tell her goodbye. who cares if it is final for him, it's final for the 9 YR OLD! besides he was like 50s something, she was again, 9 YRS OLD! he has lived, she never got to live out hers, and never will! But an innocent man, no I don't think anyone wants them to get penalized, we all mean only the wrong doers! I mean come on....... of course someone who didn't kill someone doesn't need to be killed. Only if they (we) know they did it. Then I say yes! GUILTY and do it! Like one girl said, it is leverage and not to mention, if someone is in jail for life they have nothing to lose if there is no higher deal, like, as in the death penalty.And like she said they could "shank" the guards and all, why not just get them gone? They are going to kill if they are in there for 20 yrs and more and have life, what do they have to lose? Nothing without the death penalty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God bless the innocent!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 4:19:27 AM

        Before you put your hands on the keyboard and insert your foot in your mouth you need to read what people are saying!!!! I will make it clear to an obviously narrow minded individual like yourself!!!!! My point is that the system is FLAWED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think there are alot of people that should not take another breath for the crimes they committed!!!! However, until the system is 100% flawless!!!! Which it never will be, then the death penalty is not an option!!!!!! That is my point J___ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Now if you want to create a scenario that provokes thought , all well and fine. Don't personalize it by threatening my wife and daughter!!!!

  • Posted By: Mentalbil @ 11/12/2007 3:29:00 AM

    In Saudi Arabi gold can be left out in the open square because the punishment for stealing it is harsh enough. Stop the death penalty and innocent persons will die at a much higher rate!!

    • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 5:23:20 PM

      PLease thank you! I so love that comment. Exactly. They do not have the crimes there because punishment is so severe. When can the US get the picture, oh when we get the liberals to stop feeling sorry for the killers, rapers, murderers, etc.! that's when the world would be a better place, so thanks to people like commuterdog, we can't have that. They then, need to go there to live!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 3:51:18 AM

        Oh no they don't have crime in Saudi Arabia, They only blow themselves up and kill scores of innocent people. You think the death penalty deters those fanatics!!! Grow up dude and get a life!!!!!!!!!!

    • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/12/2007 1:02:42 PM

      Do you want to live in a society like Saudi Arabia????

  • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/12/2007 1:12:06 PM

    Let's see: If the state put's to death an innocent man, have they in fact not committed murder???????? Therefore: those involved in the murder of that innocent victim should be put to death!!!!! Shouldn't they????? According to the death penalty supporters and the eye for an eye supporters they should be!!!! Let's see, who should we execute???? The judge??? The prosecutor???? The 12 jurists???? The police??? The witnesses who gave false testimony?????? They are all culpable in this scenario I've created for you death penalty supporters. They all helped to have an innocent man executed!!! Shouldn't they all suffer the ultimate penalty???? They are guilty of convicting an innocent man to death!!!! WHAT SAY PEOPLE??????
    Or is it okay because it was state sanctioned murder and therefore the same rules don't apply????? All those involved get a Get out of the gas chamber free card!!!!! Yea that's right don't do as I do, do as I say!!!!!!! Ther'e's a great quote!!!!!!! What's good for the goose is good for the gander!!!!! Justice is not blind in this country!!!! Just some of the "eye witnesses"!!!! Our justice system is about money!!!! Those that have it can get afair trial those that don't fry!!!!

    • Posted By: pops @ 11/13/2007 2:27:41 PM

      Your childlike arguments make me believe,that you have not reached maturity yet.Name me some cases,
      of inocent people having been executet in the last 40 years.Then compare them with cases of murderes
      getting off,because of a technicality.Certain deathrow inmates,will allways claim innocents,and our system
      will sort them out,if this is the case.If everything failes,inmates can request several Polygraph -tests,performed by differend examiners[paid for by family members,or the inmates attorney.]Even if those tests are not admissable in court yet,they are very accurate.If the inmates laywer would wave the results,of lets say four or five independent tests in the face of appeals judges[behind closed doors]make the news media aware of the situation,he will allmost be assured a new trial.[I personaly experienced this cenario,with an aquaintance of mine .It was a so called rape conviction,not a murder conviction] The victims,have a right to demand the death penalty for the violator.And when ever you become the victim,your inmature silly defense slogans for murderers,you should remember for ever.

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 3:09:55 AM

        Actually, I find my arguments to be thought provoking, not child like!!! Lots of people are ranting eye for an eye on this board, I am just trying to play the devil's advocate in the scenario I presented. If that's child like then so be it!!!!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 2:58:06 AM

        Obviously we may never know! Probably because they're DEAD!!!!!!!!!!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 2:54:54 AM

        As we speak, I just read the paper and they are reviewing a death row case here in Georgia. Apparently the man who may be guilty of the actual murder framed another man, who is currently on death row, In order to get a plea deal! Imagine that. If the man is proven not guilty, it'll be a good damn thing it took the state 18 years to try to put him to death for a crime he didn't commit!!!!! That's my point!!!!! As far as not being mature, you have a right to your opinion, I am just trying to spark some critical thought that apparently alot of these Neandrethal's on this board are totally incapable of doing!!!!

  • Posted By: chargeon2 @ 11/12/2007 4:45:20 PM

    Being a resident of NJ, the first state likely to abolish the death penalty, and a strong proponant of capital punishment, I recoil at yet another story, slanted by the liberal press, aimed at casting dispersions and doubt on the efficacy of capital punishment. Here are two more key reasons why we need to keep the death penalty protecting society. First, if you were a corrections officer guarding a prisoner already sentenced to life imprisonment and thiis prisoner decides to "shank" (stab) you to death, what additional punishment might that sicko prisoner receive...maybe a second life sentence? That will sure make everyone think justice was served. Also, in a recent New Jersey case, a male nurse who committed multiple murders confessed to some murders and provided details to the police, only because they plea-bargained with him, by promising they would not seek the death penalty. Take away the death penalty, and you lose one more leveraging tool our police really need. I'm quite sure the states can get enough willing executioners, if they pay enough. Some of us would work for free. Having said that, I am not 100% comfortable with the death penalty, as it stands now. In order to avoid executing "innocent" people, I would not want an execution that stemmed from the testimony of a jail house snitch, for example. Too much opportunity there for a "bad" conviction. However, take the case of John Wayne Gacey, the serial murder. He was convicted on strong forensics, including bodies buried in his home, and on his own confession. Why should someone like that be allowed to stay alive?

    • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/12/2007 5:11:51 PM

      EXACTLY! GREAT POINT! Thank you! people just like the idea of being opinated when they are senseless and morally wrong. let me force commuterdog's woman to sleep with me and I just repeatedly rape her over and over and she can't get to him and he can't get to her, and you think when I am not caught he wouldn't want me dead! I would hope so. Have some morals as well as gumption! Love the post, great point!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 2:40:20 AM

        Oh by the way, I doubt my wife would let you sleep with her, you don't seem like her type!!!!!!

      • Posted By: commuterdog @ 11/14/2007 2:37:31 AM

        Hey F___head, I mean Angel4justice. If you want to threaten me and my wife it just shows what an ASS you truly are!!!!! I have the exact same feelings everyone else does when a heinous crime is committed. If you read my previous posts, I even stated that I used to be pro death penalty! My point is that the justice system is screwed up and too many mistakes have been made!!!! If you end up putting an innocent to death then the system has failed!!!! Many people of late have been exonerated from death row and found to be not guilty!!!!! Until the system is 100% accurate and it never will be then the death penalty is not an option!!!!!!!

      • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/13/2007 3:46:59 PM

        Morally wrong? It is morally wrong that I think we don't need to kill people? You make take a personal shot at commuterdog and his wife and you have got the nerve to call some of us morally wrong?
        There is nothing senseless in not seeing the point behind killing people when locking them away for life is cheaper and just as effective. There is nothing senseless or morally wrong in anything that I, and several other people, have said. We do have good, valid points. And I don't see most of us putting on the caps lock and yelling when someone asks them a question.

    • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/13/2007 9:43:28 AM

      John Wayne Gacy WAS executed on 5/10/94. I am not sure what good it did but he was executed. Does that make you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing the state took his life and got it's revenge? There aer very few absolutes in this world and until we have a "perfect" justice system I am not at all comfortable with the death penalty. Too many people have been found actually innocent (as opposed to realesed due to a technicality) for me to accept that this is a solution to even the worst monster.

      • Posted By: Angel4justice @ 11/13/2007 11:49:12 AM

        John Wayne Gacy (March 17, 1942 - May 10, 1994) also known as The Killer Clown, was an American serial killer.

        He was convicted and later executed for the rape and murder of 33 boys and young men between 1972 and his arrest in 1978, 29 of whom he buried in a crawl space under the floor of his house, while others were found in nearby rivers.
        ABSOLUTELY I FEEL LOTS BETTER KNOWING HE IS WAITING JUDGMENT! LOOK WHAT HE DID, LOOK AT HOW MANY LIVES ARE NOT ONLY GONE, AS HE TOOK THEM, BUT THE FAMILIES REMAINING!!! HELLO? YEAH WE NEED THE DEATH PENALTY!

        • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 11/13/2007 4:23:12 PM

          I know who Gacy is and that he was executed. I told you that, remember? I was trying to answer your question as to why someone like that should be allowed to live by telling you that he had NOT been allowed to live. Of course at that point I also thought you might be at least somewhat rational; now I know better. You are as bloodthirsty as the people you say deserve to die but I will ask you this.
          What, exactly, was accomplished by putting Gacy to death? Or Ted Bundy (another serial killer executed in 1989)? Or any of the others? No serial killer once caught and convicted is EVER going to walk the streets again. So why kill them?

        • Posted By: star222 @ 11/13/2007 1:23:47 PM

          BOBBY GLEN WILCHER GOT WHAT HE WANTED FOR HIS LAST MEAL. BEST I CAN RECALL .HE GOT A 2LEATER COKE GALLON OF ICE CREAM .THE TWO WOMEN DIDENT GET S---.BUT DIRT TREW IN THER FACE.NO MORE GRANNY TO GO SEE AT THANKS GIVING.LOOK AT WHT IT COST TO FEED EACH OME OF THOSE SOB .STICK THEM .OR FEED THIM POISEN . JUST LIKE WHAT THEY DID TO THE ONES THEY KILLED .THEY DIDENT HAVE A CLUE THAT THER LIVES WERE GOING TO END THAT DAY

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