The (White) House of Shame

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  • Posted By: hkmcs @ 11/16/2007 12:17:23 AM

    Oh boy, t9900 is quite an angry person, isn't he? Responding to any posts that are anti-war and anti-conservatives. I'm pretty sure t9900 will attack me as well after I posted this, but I understand any further response will fall on deaf ears. Anti-war, anti-conservatives or not, sounding angry, aggressive, responding to posts like t9900, calling people "dumb" and "illogical" doesn't always make one smart or logical, and certainly not right. Just state your opinion once, without constantly attacking other people's opinions (and hogging the page to look for anti-war comments), will be quite enough and civil.

    • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/16/2007 9:52:12 AM

      So it is wrong to stand up to ignorant people. You refuse to listen becuase you disagree, isn't that called being arogant?. You assumption that I am "an angry person" is quite wrong, I'm sorry to say, and saying antiwar/anti conservatives are not agrresive and do not use names is an understatment. You must have not read many anti-war/anti-conservative comments.
      Your right, calling people dumb or illogical does not make one smart or right but doesn't make them wrong or stupid either. And I will continue to take on your ignorant opinions until you start thinking logicaly. Its quite obvious your attacking the way I express myself. So its obvious I'm going to attack your opinions.
      I'm not going to ignore your comment, no matter how much you want me not to, to prove some kind of point. I stand up for myself and I will state my opinion unitl it gets through. considering the high level of ignorance here, that may be close to impossible.

  • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/15/2007 9:45:03 PM

    Let me get a show of hands people. How many of you think that wars are cheep, quick and bloodless? Do any of you think leaving Iraq and creating a power vacuum for our enemies to enter will bring less negative effects than, staying and paying the money and lives until Iraq is either stable or has a strong and stable government, police force, and military, which will eventually lead to people liking us and respecting us more. If we leave, the hate will not, and the jihads cause will be furthered by their victory, which can be very disastrous in the long run.

  • Posted By: blessedone @ 11/15/2007 9:05:36 PM

    i never call people names no matter what they are, and thanks for leting me know what you are. it always come from one's on mouth, because what's in you will eventually come out of you. Patients

    • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/15/2007 9:24:00 PM

      You use interesting argument skills. "When you have nothing else, use their spelling, grammar, or how they argue against them." Yes I made that quote up myself and no I do not follow it but its commonly used by other people. How someone argues (if they are aggressive or use 'names') does not make them any more wrong or any more right. It's what they present content wise.. If you base peoples arguments based of this and not facts and content then...you can't argue.
      Also arguing aggressively or using names does not show you "what I am". Once again its the actual content, not how it is presented.

  • Posted By: Gerry McDonald @ 11/15/2007 3:51:20 PM

    The public is not heedless; our government is heedless of the public. All the critical newscasts, and editorial criticisms, including this article, have no effect on the inaction of Congress or the intransigence of the administration. John Locke wrote that the tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy. Although the citizens believe that we are a democracy, the government behaves as though the USA were an oligarchy. We have complained and criticized, and we have replaced congress-persons, but the actions and inactions of the government have not. Do you have any suggestions?

    • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/15/2007 9:14:57 PM

      I disagree with your statement. We were never, ever a democracy. We are a republic, which is much more oligarchy (democracy is to democratic as oligarchy is to 'I don't know??' I have no idea, in fact I think there is no would that could fit) than a true democracy. And it's not "bush and his cronnies" (that wasn't to you specificly, but to those who would blame that for problems that even thier side had caused or failed to prevent) who have made it this way and it hasn't become this way over time. It was our founding fathers.

  • Posted By: ghostcommander @ 11/15/2007 7:52:36 PM

    Please read "The 12 Year Reich" by Richard Grunberger and books and articles by Victor Klemperer. Also, Google "the 14 points of Fascism" and "Fascism Anyone" by Dr. Lawrence Britt. Fellow Americans, we are in trouble and we must educate ourselves to the threat that Bush/Cheney, The GOP, the RNC, and the brown shirt pseudo journalists that rubber stamp any and all propaganda that the right wing extremists spew out.

    • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/15/2007 8:54:24 PM

      Excuse me but is this the only thing you ever read? Tell me where you get your sources from about the GOP? These authors and their biased work. Many Americans really need to find more than one/one-sided source(s) before they get their facts straight. Tell me why you think the GOP and right-wingers are such an "evil" group of people with such "evil" ideas? Is it because you do not agree with them (becuase thats the only logical choice, if not your mind must be warped), because guess what, if you knew what fascism is, you would know that fascist parties do the same thing you and these hypocritical authors are doing. Labeling the opposition as evil and/or communists (or in your case fascists). Interesting isn't it. Do you even know what right wing people believe in.
      Oh and many Democrats are also right wing. Believe it or not most Americans are right wing. Most Republicans aren't even past the half-way marker on the right side. Being a right wing extremist does not mean you are fascist or authoritarian. There are right-wing and left-wing authoritarians and right-wing and left-wing non authoritarians.

  • Posted By: sheilab @ 11/15/2007 5:52:32 AM

    T9900 struck a nerve did I. How do you spell hypocrote T9900. If anyone is ranting and raving without logic it's you or do you not think your comments about this article is a clear example of your hyprocrisy. Clearly you are without understanding, because the things you accuse me of are the very same things you are ranting about in your post.

    • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/15/2007 10:05:50 AM

      Uh what? Do you know what you just typed? I never said you have to have a first-hand experiance to rant about something. You did, and if you think I said that then you must have missed the other words in my comment. You really need to read the entire comment, not just the things you mid wants to read. Are you druck right now? If not, next time please try to make sense.

      • Posted By: sheilab @ 11/15/2007 7:41:53 PM

        Again defensive or we. I never said you said that and clearly you failed to understand my comments which are simply people who rant like you tend to imply so much through your venom and when anyone asks what I asked immediately the are offended. We can go around in circles, but tell me what really would be the point.

        • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/15/2007 8:36:30 PM

          Really come on. Have you read a darn thing I first posted? In fact have you read a darn thing you posted? And of course I'm defensive. If you weren't so ignorant you would know your being defensive too. Take a minute or two to read what my first response to you was. I did not take offense to your question. I took offense to your ridicules stereotype and illogical statement. Please know what your opoment is saying before you enter a rgument with them. It really helps.

  • Posted By: blessedone @ 11/15/2007 7:57:56 PM

    its good to be a little angry sometime, it don't have to be venom. or do it, me my self i am a Offense type of guy. and by the way this is just food for thought. so lets get off the marry-go-round before it even start

  • Posted By: blessedone @ 11/15/2007 6:19:40 PM

    Yes I do have a suggestion, which is the perfect assimilation of all our suggestions. We know what we got to do in our heart as men, and what is understood doesn???t need to be explained. Someone said the threat to knowledge is not ignorance; the real threat is the illusion of knowledge. We all know the war in Iraq is just a divergent so money can be made and channel to the intended parties that are involve.
    Surely we can gather millions and millions of men to go and march upon Capital Hill, and at the end of that demonstration and day when everybody goes back home while the Washington department of sanitation cleans up behind the protestor. I guaranty you that the next day it will be business back as usual upon Capital Hill, and not one dam thing will be change even though several million men came to Washington to ask and protest for change. And the reason for that is simple, because it isn???t the nature of a coward to do anything heroic, you can bring twenty million cowards together and not one heroic display will take place; because it???s not their nature to do anything heroic. And then again one man can come and change not just a country but maybe even a world. I say that to say this, we are in need of a few good men.

  • Posted By: blessedone @ 11/15/2007 3:38:23 PM

    This is my poem, it???s an original and from the heart.


    When we first receive that grand lady which we know as the statue of Liberty that stands so proudly in Ellis Island, I do believe that someone knew in advance that this country would become the biggest whore in the world who would take it in any position and in any way it could the more the merrier. The bigger the better as long as it was financially pleasing.
    Our American flag has become awfully bloody for administration purposes only. Now we must ask ourselves as a people when will the blood stop, or is it an endless cycle.

  • Posted By: blessedone @ 11/15/2007 3:24:06 PM

    Our country has always been split and divided; it???s like two opponents of a chess game. Its like the negative and the positive, it just exist. And this division is what created the war in the first place in our country between the north and the south, and the war continues to be fought within the shadows of our every day existence on all fronts. The secrete adversaries that stands on opposite sides of this board game of our every day to day life, moves us like chess pieces. They move the media, corporation, politics and etc.
    Now the energy boys are the new bullies on the block, President Bush and his cronies are the new intimidators. They are rapping our country treasure while basically all the politicians on capital hill stays out of these bullies way like the true cowards they are. And I believe we can all understand that perspective, because we have all been on the play ground; which gives us the nature of knowing a bully situation. Bush and his cronies has rape and looted this county financial well being in such a gangster way that everyone that makes up our system establishment is petrified of these financial thugs. President Bush and his cronies main objective now is to make the economy collapse under the stressful financial strain that they created, and if the country goes into a system collapse of another depression like 1929; Check-Mate the south has wow this long exhausting conceal battle which has been fought every day since the civil war and the old southern master mentality will exist as supreme. (What! you stand by and let be done to others, will be done to you).

  • Posted By: fullofhope @ 11/15/2007 2:40:10 PM

    i love how we vote in crooks to office, let crooks run the countyry, buy up all the crooks merchaindise, and then cry that the crooks are cheating us out of the American dream. Your sons are not forced to fight, and no draft has strength without soldiers to round up those unwiling to fight the crooks wars. Oh how we cry obese tears from ingroant eyes and ignore the cries of the innocent with deaf ears full of music from those nifty ipods. America is a dream deferred, and the revolution a waste of time and money. We are a fat, lazy, complacent society who care more about crappy actors than genocide across the world. A day will come when the cries of the innocent will reach the ears of God and his heart will be moved with such compassion that this rock of evil will be destroyed and has he brings the forgotten home, those fat and uncaring will suffer the flames of eternal hell. I care not for religion, war, racism, or any of the issues that divide man against man, brother against brother. I care that my children have a chance to grow up and see a world of people deserving of the precious gift of life. America is not the only country that loses sons and daughters to war, nor is this country more grand than any other because we are also steeped in corruption and greed. But like every circle we will come around once again to the days when we would not go quietly into the night, and not vanish without a fight. And maybe in that day the spirit of our fathers who fought so hard for the freedom we now have to overeat and over indulge, will spur us on to make a brave new world for our future generations. Or maybe not. Maybe the " TERRORIST" that is all those who dont care about the well being of their fellow man will overrun the world as they already are and we will perish in hate until the creator comes.

  • Posted By: DEUCEISLOOSE @ 11/15/2007 1:31:25 PM

    Fully understand the monetary costs, but has has this Bush War done for the young men and women serving and their families. It is convienent to state police officers, televisions, etc. But what about the hardships endured by our military members and families. How does that equate to the child that doers not get to see his mother or father for 18 months or worse never gets to see them again. Please do not just wave a flag and pretend you know the monetary cost if you have never served. There is much more that goes into the equation that pure money.

  • Posted By: mpham @ 11/15/2007 11:03:15 AM

    Iraq and Afghanistan war to the USA is likely to be the Afghan war to the USSR. When the dollar falls, the 80% American that now can live on charity of US allies no longer can do so. Read this Chinese art of war

    1. Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war,
    where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots,
    as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand
    mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them
    a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front,
    including entertainment of guests, small items such as
    glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor,
    will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day.
    Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.

    2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory
    is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and
    their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town,
    you will exhaust your strength.
    3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources
    of the State will not be equal to the strain.

    4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped,
    your strength exhausted and your treasure spent,
    other chieftains will spring up to take advantage
    of your extremity. Then no man, however wise,
    will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

    5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war,
    cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

    6. There is no instance of a country having benefited
    from prolonged warfare.

  • Posted By: All American NYC @ 11/15/2007 10:43:21 AM

    I really enjoyed every aspect of your article "(White) House of Shame." I wish the "Mainstream Media" would cover this aspect of the cost in this manner! Breaking it down in terms of Flat Screen TV's, Police Officers, and Educational Costs, so that the American People can comprehend the reality of the "Mirage" in the Desert that we have been sold. Listen, im not a scholar or a political figure head. Im just a regular guy, born and raised in this Country who feels more and more powerless over decisions made for us, whether "We" agree or not! The Media is just as much a part of the problem, as is the Administration! Where are the "Checks and Balances" in our Democracy? The "Checks" seem to be "blank" and the "Balances" seem to be a "Bling" coated PR campaign, wrapped in a "Brand" and slapped on the Forehead of every Corporation that either has something to Gain or Lose. What about what the "American People" have to Gain or Lose? UGH! It makes me want to claim the highest amount of exemptions on my taxes, to with hold them from the government, then direct that amount to charities that benefit the progression of my Community!
    ALL AMERICAN TODD, NYC

  • Posted By: twerner @ 11/15/2007 8:33:03 AM

    Seems the conservatives in America have constructed a robot that spews vitriolic hatred and viciuos language at the so called Libs everytime somebody brings up the total costs of this sensless war in Iraq. Come on- radical pan-Muslim caliphate would have emerged if Gore had become president ? You can??t be that gullible or stupid ! I do like the comment by hairamerican who demands Bush needs to be held accountable in court. I agree: Unlike Hitler who shot himself, Bush cannot be counted on to do the same. Too bad. WERNER

    • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/15/2007 10:11:25 AM

      Tell me. What should Bush be charged for? The death of Iraqi civilains and US soldiers? If thats the case then we have to charge our soldiers and military commanders too. Oh and ALL of our leaders of our country and military and the world who have led their country or forces during war. (Its called sarcasm. Just so you can't try to twist around against me) BTW, your hatred of conservatives, not conservatives themselves, is only stalling progress in America.

  • Posted By: jabailo @ 11/15/2007 12:54:13 AM

    Why is it that Libs only argue the cost of war. We all know its expensive. But never for a second do you think about the opportunity cost of not going to war! What if, we had elected Al Gore...we would have sat on our hands for 7 years while he formed a panel with the UN, the EU, SEATO, the IPCC, the GSA (Girl Scouts of America) and meanwhile a radical pan-Muslim caliphate would have emerged with nothing to threaten it. Do you want to live in that other world???

  • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/14/2007 11:33:56 PM

    For your information I will be joining the military when I can. Sucks when your wrong?
    Please stop using this stuff to counter-arguments like mine. It really shows how little you have to counter others arguments. Its just pathetic. Plus it makes you look like a hypocrite. According to what you just said, you must have a first hand experience about the topic before you can rant about peoples opinions of that topic, which means a lot of people needs to shut up and not rant about peoples opinions (which would include you). Then you basically go on to contradict yourself again. You have no firsthand experience of someone who rants about peoples opinions about Iraq and Bush yet you rant about it. Until you go interview or actually know these people, shut up or talk to them(that would be using your logic) (Oh and not all people can join the military. Does that mean they can't rant if they can't sign up? Once again you making yourself look like a fool)
    BTW, does your last statement have a point? It doesn't give you a free card to rant about others people's opinions on Iraq (which would apply to your rant of sign up or shut up) and it certainly doesn't make you look any less than an armchair warrior who does nothing but rant when someone writes an opinion about Bush or Iraq or anything for peets sake that you do not agree with. If you still plan on using your logic, either sign up or shut up. If you want to go the educated person way, then please continue but use better logic.

  • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/14/2007 11:33:29 PM

    For your information I will be joining the military when I can. Sucks when your wrong?
    Please stop using this stuff to counter-arguments like mine. It really shows how little you have to counter others arguments. Its just pathetic. Plus it makes you look like a hypocrite. According to what you just said, you must have a first hand experience about the topic before you can rant about peoples opinions of that topic, which means a lot of people needs to shut up and not rant about peoples opinions (which would include you). Then you basically go on to contradict yourself again. You have no firsthand experience of someone who rants about peoples opinions about Iraq and Bush yet you rant about it. Until you go interview or actually know these people, shut up or talk to them(that would be using your logic) (Oh and not all people can join the military. Does that mean they can't rant if they can't sign up? Once again you making yourself look like a fool)
    BTW, does your last statement have a point? It doesn't give you a free card to rant about others people's opinions on Iraq (which would apply to your rant of sign up or shut up) and it certainly doesn't make you look any less than an armchair warrior who does nothing but rant when someone writes an opinion about Bush or Iraq or anything for peets sake that you do not agree with. If you still plan on using your logic, either sign up or shut up. If you want to go the educated person way, then please continue but use better logic.

  • Posted By: sheilab @ 11/14/2007 10:12:23 PM

    T9900 have you served in Iraq? If not, why not? It's easy to spit out a rant like this from the comfort of your home, but it seems to me if you and likeminded individuals volunteered then 1) we wouldn't have to worry about the strain on our troops and 2) there would be more than enough troops to subdue Iraq. Sign up or shut up. I am so sick of you armchair warriors who do nothing by rant when someone writes an opinion about Bush or Iraq that you do not agree wit. By the way 5 members of my family have served in case you are wondering.

  • Posted By: lostinthought @ 11/14/2007 9:53:07 PM

    Regardless of ones stand on the war one thing should be dealt with on a higher priority. Get the servicemen and women home.

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