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The Not-So-Big Ten

The Ohio State-Michigan football rivalry remains swell. But there's no hiding that the conference no longer has game.

By Mark Starr | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Nov 15, 2007 | Updated: 3:00  p.m. ET Nov 15, 2007

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  • Posted By: KevinMich @ 11/20/2007 9:46:01 AM

    Comment: Yes and you forget to mention how every time Michigan has played USC or whoever in the so called Pac 10 almighty, it's always been on the west coast in their own backyard. So it really isn't a nuetral field. Bring your boys to the Big House or to the Horse Shoe and play some football where you'll get numb from the cold and see how it will effect their game. I will also proudly mention since you can only say what you want to say, as for Michigan they own your Pac 10 in all time games. The 64 times Michigan has played the Pac 10, they have pounded your Conference a whopping 42-21-1. Need help finding facts, maybe you should refrain from typing, you might look smarter before doing so.

  • Posted By: KevinMich @ 11/20/2007 9:44:28 AM

    Comment: Yes and you forget to mention how every time Michigan has played USC or whoever in the so called Pac 10 almighty, it's always been on the west coast in their own backyard. So it really isn't a nuetral field. Bring your boys to the Big House or to the Horse Shoe and play some football where you'll get numb from the cold and see how it will effect their game. I will also proudly mention since you can only say what you want to say, as for Michigan they own your Pac 10 in all time games. The 64 times Michigan has played the Pac 10, they have ponded your Conference a whopping 42-21-1. Need help finding facts, maybe you should refrain from typing, you might look smarter before you type.

  • Posted By: DaddyDawg @ 11/18/2007 9:14:38 PM

    Comment: Loved the article.... very enlightening, and I would add that the Not So Big or "BigLess Ten (IMHO) has essentially become a one team conference, as evidenced by Michigan ("MeatChicken)'s 1-6 record against tOSU under Tressell and tOSU's recent 20 game win streak in the BigLess Ten. Can you imagine such a streak these days in competitive conferences like the SEC and Pac10?? The lack of competition within the BigLess Ten, combined with the very weak ouf of conference schedule, ensures that BigTen teams are not battle-tested, relative to conferences like the SEC and PacTen, when it comes time to play bowl games. For example, you cited the BigLess Ten's poor record in the Rose Bowl. Now look at tOSU's record against SEC teams in bowl games... something like 0-8 or 0-9.... either way, tOSU hasn't been competitive because it doesn't play a competitive schedule during the regular season. 'Nuff said!!

    • Posted By: KevinMich @ 11/20/2007 09:51:38

      Comment: Go figure, when the SEC or Pac10 can start recruiting a balanced athletic and academic individual, you wouldn't see so many fast running thugs playing in them Conferences. Oh and as for Bowl games, why do the Big10 teams always have to play in opponents home field advantage? Always.

      Quess it is what it is, but I do know this, Michigan owns every conference when it comes to the records.

  • Posted By: Ron Yogman MSU '64 @ 11/16/2007 7:31:54 PM

    Comment: Doofus! Goober! Go back to covering high school football -- down south or out west
    on a nice sunny day.

  • Posted By: Ron Yogman MSU '64 @ 11/16/2007 7:15:19 PM

    Comment: What a smuck piece of journalistic crapola. You conveniently managed to gloss over
    Michigan State's drubbing of "mighty" USC in the 1988 Rose Bowl, as I recall.
    That must have been one of the two victories in a "wndow" you failed to provide
    details on because it would dilute the impact of your imposter message.

    Why not talk common denominators such as Ron Zook who failed miserably
    at Florida but has awakened a winning program at Illinois; or Coach Dantonio
    who in one year has turned around Michigan State, soon to be a NATIONAL,
    yes national powerhouse in football -- as it is in basketball.

    Next time you malign an entire conference do your homework.
    I forget, where did you say you graduated from? Do I detect a bit of bias here, perhaps?

  • Posted By: toakley01 @ 11/16/2007 6:18:44 PM

    Comment: Another bit of biased bi-coastal journalism. These are the same guys that pretend that they actually play football in the Big East and the ACC. They're also the same guys who crowned USC the undisputed champion at the beginning of the season. In my view, the best football in the country is played in the SEC, followed by the Big 10. In the SEC it's speedball, in the Big 10 it's smashmouth brutality. On the coasts, it's city boy/surfer boy media darling football. Some things are true--Big 10 teams could play better non-conference rivals and the SEC's speed is superior to the Big 10 brawn. However, if you put a Big 10 offense on the field playing ball control football, the speedy guys never get on the field. It ain't always pretty, but it is effective.

    I'm also trying to figure out how the author's population movement argument works for the Big 12. I don't see a great exodus of people flooding into Kansas and Nebraska. They also seem to forget that Wisconsin has beaten Big 12 and SEC teams regularly in bowl games for the last several years. I guess it's easy when you have a column and you get to choose only the facts that fit your thesis. Pretty poor journalism, in my opinion.

  • Posted By: Ragstime @ 11/16/2007 5:08:30 PM

    Comment: Very poor piece of "journalism"! A couple of points that just don't seem to get acknowledged Nationally.

    Most of your bowl games are like home games for the PAC 10 and SEC. Big 10 teams are built to win the Big 10 - which involves playing in the North in November. Let's have a bowl game in Chicago, Detroit, or Cleveland every New Years and invite the winner of a warm weather team to play the Big 10 Champ.

    Additionally, why doesn't Vanderbilt ever win the SEC? Could it be that their academic requirements are a lot closer to what you see at Michigan, Northwestern, Indiana, OSU, and Purdue? Rather than Mississippi St. and Alabama?

    The fact that the Buckeyes didn't show up last year after a very long layoff is hardly a reason to suspect that the outcome of those two teams playing 10 times would result in 9 or 10 victories by Florida - OSU layed an egg in a big game - how is that proof that the entire Big Ten is now completely overmatched by every Southern team in the Country?

  • Posted By: mike5048 @ 11/16/2007 4:58:52 PM

    Comment: The point that needs to be made is that you can't judge a conference by one year. For a number of years the Big 10 had several teams in the Top 10. These things are cyclical. In '97 Michigan was co-national champ with Nebraska. Where is Nebraska this year?

  • Posted By: AnonymousUser @ 11/16/2007 3:43:53 PM

    Comment: What a sad piece of journalism. All those stats showing how weak the B10 is without any convincing us how much stronger the other conferences are. This isn't even a "my dad can beat up your dad" piece. This is a "your dad is a wussy...nevermind my dad...your dad is weak" piece.

    Take the Pac-10 and throw them into games in the mid-west in November and see how things go, instead of giving the B10 a nice 1.5 month break and hauling them out to the west coast EVERY YEAR.

  • Posted By: Snowman95 @ 11/16/2007 3:39:35 PM

    Comment: This writer has a perfect assement of it all. That explains why OSU beat Miami in 2002 for the National Championship.

  • Posted By: afan @ 11/16/2007 3:04:15 PM

    Comment: In the last ten years the big ten has one two national championships, one by Ohio State and one by Michigan. Has not Ohio State played in two National Championship games in five years?
    Prior to USC's revival from the dead by Pete Carroll, the Pac10 was a far weaker conference than the Big 10 is now.

  • Posted By: jstross @ 11/16/2007 1:22:07 PM

    Comment: The Acc, SEC and Big East have only played 3 current top 25 teams. That's hardly a big difference. Big Ten teams average more NFL players than any other conference. Only the media darling SEC even comes close, but is still approximately .5 less than the big 10!

  • Posted By: jstross @ 11/16/2007 1:20:00 PM

    Comment: The big East, SEC, and ACC only played 3 teams in the current top 25. Hardly much more than the Big Ten. Only one conference has beaten more than 1 top 20 team, the Pac-10 with 3. Also, there are more Big Ten players in the NFL as an average per team than any other conference. Only the SEC comes close, but still averages app. .5 less NFL players per team.

  • Posted By: tawWie @ 11/16/2007 12:58:38 PM

    Comment: Wow - I'm glad you are not in charge of promoting college football. You could look at any conference and find a "Big 2". I don't see one team winning the national championship every year. A disadvantage Big 10 teams have is that their season ends this Saturday (hard to play football late in the season - snow). The PAC10 will continue playing well into December. A 6 week lay-off VS a 2 or 3 week lay-off does not help Big 10 teams in bowl games. When you talk about UM and OSU you are talking about long winning traditions, a committment to education and excellence. That is why they have a reputation. That doesn't give them a free pass to the National Championship. You could argue that the Big 10 is weaker now, but 2 traditional powerhouses: Notre Dame and PSU (who is now in the Big 10) have been weak lately. Both have won National Championships in the past and play Big 10 teams each year. I am not 100% confident that if Kansas remains undefeated that they will get their shot - that is why I favor 1 extra game after the bowl games to determine the National Champion.

  • Posted By: aengler3 @ 11/16/2007 12:24:00 PM

    Comment: Just like in 2002 when there was no way the Buckeyes could beat "speedy" Miami. Then last year beat a #2 Texas team which the last time I checked was in the south. This column is garbage.

  • Posted By: chuckd94 @ 11/16/2007 11:08:07 AM

    Comment: If the Big 10 is so weak, why did they win 2 out of 3 bowl games against SEC teams last year? Starr, and all of you other closed minded imbeciles, focus so much on OSU's losses while ignoring the "lesser" teams' wins.

  • Posted By: miller43334 @ 11/16/2007 11:02:30 AM

    Comment: I seem to remember the same discussion in 2002. Ohio State was supposed to get blown away by the mighty, undefeatable, Miami Hurricanes of the ACC. The Big10 was far too weak to stand up against a real conference, with faster and more talented players. (Final Score: Ohio State 31 / Miami 24 - OOPS!!)

  • Posted By: miller43334 @ 11/16/2007 10:58:23 AM

    Comment: I seem to remember the same discussion in 2002. Ohio State was supposed to get blown away by the mighty, undefeatable, Miami Hurricanes of the ACC. The Big10 was far too weak to stand up against a real conference, with faster and more talented players.

  • Posted By: DAVEMAN @ 11/16/2007 10:47:16 AM

    Comment: The members of the Big Ten need to all play each other. Like the Pac Ten ,if you dont have a conference championship at least play each other. Drop one of your panzy pushover games and play each other. I thought what a joke last year that Wisconsin didnt have to play Ohio State and finished in the top 5 at the end of the 06 season

  • Posted By: StevenJ1979 @ 11/16/2007 10:06:07 AM

    Comment: It's always fun to play with stats - pick the ones that support your argument, ignore the ones that don't. One of the most dishonest is the strength of non-conf schedule. You need to show what the other conferences are doing. After all, defending champ Florida loaded up with powerhouses Western Kentucky, Troy, Florida Atlantic, and Florida State. True they can't help that FSU isn't the team they used to be, but Michigan can't help that Notre Dame turned out to be a stinker. One thing's for sure, GMs in the NFL don't think the Big Ten is so bad. Here are the conference rankings for the first two rounds of the 2007 and 2006 drafts: Number 1 SEC - 25; Number 2 (the poor lowly) Big Ten - 19; number 3 ACC - 18; number 4 PAC 10 - 16; number 5 Big 12 - 13. And by the way, I think if you bother to check, the Big Ten has a winning record over the SEC in bowl games the past few years.

  • Posted By: hueyfreeman @ 11/16/2007 8:24:00 AM

    Comment: Jimmychips, what SEC are you watching? I'm watching the one that plays fast AND hard. You make it sound as if the SEC plays fast, but weak football. It's not about oldschool, tough football, it's about fielding a winning team, which the Big Ten doesn't do much of. Florida was waaaay better. The only way to prove yourself is on the field, and Ohio State showed us what they and the rest of the Little Ten are made of.

    • Posted By: afan @ 11/16/2007 15:08:34

      Comment: Yea without are number 1 offensive weapon (Ted Ginn Jr) injured on a freak play, after his touchdown kickoff return to start game.

  • Posted By: chewitup @ 11/16/2007 8:19:27 AM

    Comment: I wonder how the Pac10 representative would fare at Soldier's Field for a bowl game in January to play the Big10 Champ. Pretty tough to plan a parade in the winter though.

  • Posted By: jimmychips1 @ 11/16/2007 8:02:20 AM

    Comment: We all know talent has run down south. California has always been a hot spot for sports, including football. The real name of the game here is consistancy. Sure, nobody can doubt or debate that the Big 10's record in bowl games against other conferences has been mediocre, however, that is one game of the season. One game that follows a month long period of no games. Is that really an accurate way to measure talent? We've got a number of games against the pac-10 coming up in the next few years.....is that ok with you? And notice how most, if not all of these games are scheduled in the west......AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON. If you want to know why people still praise and respect the Big-10 try looking at simple facts like this: Football came from our area. Warm sunny starters to a season followed by cold, dark, wet games in the midwest. You want to measure TRUE all american football talent? You bring a USC or a Ducks (whome by the way LOST last night big guy) or another Texas or even a LSU up to play in the Horse Shoe or Big house in 10 degree wet winter weather, away from their warm couzy stadiums and see how they play their fast, pretty boy ball then. People like the Big-10 because it's not always about numbers pal. It's about hardnosed, oldschool tough football. And when it comes to our lose in the BCS game last year, try focusing a little bit more on how absolutely terrible the Buckeyes played along with how great the Gators played. You make it sound like we threw everything we had at them and they just were still waaaaaaay better because their SEC and were little ole Big-10. PS. Have you even played football before cheif?

  • Posted By: Brutus33 @ 11/15/2007 7:38:25 PM

    Comment: You do know schedules are completed before the rankings come out right?

  • Posted By: Brutus33 @ 11/15/2007 7:36:39 PM

    Comment: You're right, no other conference schedules lower tier teams.

  • Posted By: Brutus33 @ 11/15/2007 7:35:15 PM

    Comment: OSU has played Texas, and has USC, OU, VT and Miami coming up. Good enough for you?

  • Posted By: Brutus33 @ 11/15/2007 6:42:17 PM

    Comment: OSU has played Texas, is set to play USC, OU, and Miami. Is that a good enough OOC schedule?

 
 
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