Death in Perugia

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  • Posted By: rosibud @ 11/16/2007 10:58:00 AM

    American racism?? I had to laugh at reading that! Read history people - America is NOT the only country that had , and still can have, a problem with racism! And as for American woman getting away with crimes because they are worshipped? You must be meaning my cat worships me, and my crime is feeding her extra snacks..Look people, anyone of any race can commit a crime, and just because I am a white American woman does not mean I would get away with it IF I was to do something.Let the police decide what they think happened and may the guilty party be held accountable for the crime.

    • Posted By: Controversial Brit @ 11/16/2007 11:08:44 AM

      Just a couple of words for you rosibud OJ Simpson, so much for the law deciding on the punishment, what it always comes down to in the US is how much money you have or don't have.

      • Posted By: lolligagger2 @ 11/16/2007 11:26:13 AM

        Is this really all you could come up with? Is it not the same in your country?

        • Posted By: livurlife @ 11/16/2007 12:26:19 PM

          If it is the same in UK, and I suspect it is, that doesn't make it right. Sorry. Not right at all. But this is not O.J. Simpson. The fact is, in the U.S. there are protections that have been built in to the legal system through especially the 4th amendment. These protections have been eroded more in the past five years than at any other time in the last 80 years. But the right to counsel is still considered fundamental. As is the right to be free from coerced confessions. Here, I think that all three people may not have had the same protections as they would have had in the U.S. (and by the way, some of the best lawyers ARE actually defending people at low or no charge as a matter of course. so even poor people, though not all, are getting very good lawyers - but then many rich people are paying a hell of a lot for lawyers who are no better than the average law school graduate). The fact that they were not protected by the advice of counsel, is very sad. If nothing else, you can see the Italian and British media are using different statements to suggest guilt, but there would likely have been fewer statements and so, likely, more consistent statements made if the defendants, and especially the youngest, the American, had an attorney whom she would turn to and tell the entire truth in confidence (as is the case in the U.S.) and then respond to the police. Here, the media, and it seems the Italian government, are using the various statements to make her out to be a devil. Maybe she is a devil. But maybe she was a young woman, alone, in a country where the language is not her native language and where she could have been threatened by one of the others, or by the police, and she spoke variously out of fear and wanting to tell the truth at the same time. All in all, a horrible event.

          • Posted By: Michamer @ 11/16/2007 1:20:45 PM

            livurlife, Don't be daft. "Maybe she was a young woman alone...she spoke variously out of fear and wanting to tell the truth at the same time." Huh?

            You don't tell the truth and it then comes out in three different ways. The events of last night don't change. If the truth is that I went to visit a friend last night and I'm telling you about last night, it doesn't become, "I was actually at home all night", the third time I tell the story.

            • Posted By: livurlife @ 11/19/2007 4:40:33 AM

              Aside from that a woman was killed, neither you nor I know the events of the night when the murder took place. Its a horrible horrible thing that happened. What I am referring to is the fact that she REPORTEDLY said things differently on three occasions COULD be that on one or more of the occasions she was motivated by fear, or lust, or whatever. That doesn't change that someone is dead and was brutally murdered. What I AM saying is that NOT EVEN YOU can know what really happened and that she should not be made a scapegoat. Why not? 1) because if there were ??thers involved, and everyone believes there were, then all culprits need to be identified and removed from society to ensure that others, your sister or daughter perhaps, are not dooped into the same situation with a similar end, and 2) because failing to determine what REALLY happened (and you cannot know which of her stories, if any, were true) could result in not only failing to find consipirators but even in strengthening their sense that they are above the law-making recurrence more likely, and 3) it is important for society to have faith in its justice system and most will not have faith in a system that has its own agenda and which fails to meet out what the most likely truth is-was.
              So I don't think I'm daft (though saying so obviously identifies you as British), just wanting there to be justice for eveyone's sake. Even if you believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth- you should make sure you have the right eye and the right tooth or teeth first. Do you disagree with that?

      • Posted By: rosibud @ 11/16/2007 11:20:17 AM

        Thanks for the laugh C. Brit!! You are correct that being able to afford the best lawyers sure can get a person out of a sticky situation...Yet I would tend to think that the United States is not the only place where money can buy good lawyers...Have a great day and thanks for your comment!

  • Posted By: homer @ 11/18/2007 3:40:13 PM

    As an American, I am glad that decades after its inception, we have finally shed our moniker of the "Ugly American." Unfortunately, the new nickname will be much worse.

  • Posted By: Dark Advocate @ 11/16/2007 4:00:39 PM

    Hate to tell everyone but 75% of the other world cannot stand the United States. They think we are arrogant ignorant, egotistic, lack of any culture, barbaric, think we are better than anyone else and big time racist. So what does the rest of the 25% thinks of the U.S?

    • Posted By: Gio_Valenti @ 11/18/2007 2:41:37 PM

      If they don't hate it, it's because they haven't come across it yet. They like coca cola though, that's a good usa product...better than all that contaminated water

  • Posted By: michumucho @ 11/16/2007 4:24:45 PM

    What does any of this have to do with America or Americans!? Just because she is American? That is the stupidest thing I have EVER heard of. Some of you people are extremely warped in your mind. People will find any excuse to say something utterly vile and disgusting about America, even some of it;s own citizens who take advantage of their free speech. I have ancestors who died and spilled their blood for this country so stop being so disrespectful. America has plenty of culture and we are the most diverse country there is. People are banging down our door s to live here so lay off. As for other countires hating us..perhaps they are jealous.;ever think of that? Our country gives out more aid and assistance than any other country...yet we are evil? You all are crazy if you think that. Every country has some evil people....if you dont like America you dont have to live hear and if you dont live here mind your own business!

    • Posted By: Gio_Valenti @ 11/18/2007 2:28:57 PM

      It's just this sort of aggressive response that defines you as an American. Think about how you react next time.

  • Posted By: Doka @ 11/18/2007 1:55:25 PM

    Not all Americans that move or study abraod are bad... I have lived in Japan for almost 2 years and I can honestly say that I have never done anything like this. Neither have any my male or female friends. I understand that some people explore some really strange and craxy notions when others are not around, or they are out of their elements... BUT, it is not fair to characterize all Americans with such behaviors. I also undtand that this is truely a great tragedy and feel for the family and friends who have lost such a beautiful and student minded individual...However, if the Amercian girl did it then you can pass judgement ON HER and not the rest of the population!

  • Posted By: Doka @ 11/18/2007 1:48:06 PM

    Not all Americans who go abroad are subjects to sexual and abbrasive behavior... I am an American that lives in Japan and I have done nothing like this... Neither have some of my Amercian girl friends and Male friends. What has happened here is trageic, I will give you that! But not all Americans are bad despite what you may think!

  • Posted By: Sailor5000 @ 11/18/2007 1:26:23 PM

    you boys and girls in Seattle who mixed with this whacko are lucky she didn't slit your throats...she is a piece of trash and deserves to rot in the Itlaian jail system..

  • Posted By: Sailor5000 @ 11/18/2007 1:24:47 PM

    you boys who went out with her in Seattle are lucky she didn't slit your throats....what a piece of trash she is....I hope she roots in the Italian jail system...she deserves it....

  • Posted By: vbabe @ 11/18/2007 1:12:03 PM

    what is it with these students either traveling abroad or vacationing like for instance in Aruba now Perugia, and they're Americans on top of that. As soon as they leave home in America, they act like party animals,oppressed and mixed up. They manage to get others messed up in their sickness or confusion or even kinkyness especially pertaining to drugs, alcohol and sexual encounters. Rather they're the victims or the perpetrators, authorities have to take a long hard look into their profiles on what really makes them tick and get into trouble. Its sad to loose such an innocent, young student wanting to get an education abroad and end up as front page news on some foreign newspaper. I feel sorry for the family, friends of the victim who loved her and will miss her through all this horrible mess. I hope we find out the truth and justice to end this bad and terrible incident. Let justice prevail. Good Luck. May Meredith Kercher rest in everlasting peace.

  • Posted By: Flora @ 11/17/2007 8:24:19 AM

    The unfortunate thing is that the Lumaumba will get the rap for this. There is definately a form of racism that exists in Italy. I believe that if they look into the situation more they will find that the fourth guy is the blame. Yes they were all involved in some weird stuff, but when they invited the fourth guy he wasn't well known and they have no idea his psychological stature.

    • Posted By: synergism721 @ 11/18/2007 11:39:53 AM

      Flora, I hope you are studying law and plan on being a defense attorney. Just like one to blame the myterious "fourth guy" that seems to have vanished. Same argument my kids use when I catch them with their hand in the cookie jar.

  • Posted By: synergism721 @ 11/18/2007 11:33:13 AM

    That the media must resort to reporting a murder across the pond soothes my concerns that this sort of entertainment is common. Yes, it does involve an American, and as a consequence is newsworthy in the states. But for this story to have any legs the reporters will need to give us more of the sex. Otherwise, it is just run of the mill killing and we can find plenty of that on our own shores :)

  • Posted By: Sherwin @ 11/18/2007 2:45:47 AM

    An indescribably tragic occurence. At the end of the day it is not only a life lost but the circumstances leading up to that which make it so agonizingly hard to come to terms with. The family of the victim must be totally devastated. I agree with devonlynn1's post on here which to me is a very powerful one because of its simplicity, sensibilities and very down-to-earth take on the incident - one from which it is otherwise soooooo easy to lose one's perspective on because of its shocking details.

  • Posted By: devonlynn1 @ 11/16/2007 2:33:02 PM

    I am an American girl studying in Europe. I do not do things that are crazy because I am so far away from home and believe there are no consequences. I am not saying that this girl didn't do it and I completely believe that all the evidence points to her guilt along with the two men. But some of the postings on this site have missed the point. Don't bring God or race into this. It is a human story. Many Christians and religious people have committed worse crimes and they had accepted Jesus into their hearts. I believe that more people are killed with 'religious intentions' than otherwise. I am not religious, and I don't commit crimes, so the logic there is inconsistent. I does not matter that the barman was black, the other two people were white. The only thing that matters is that a poor girl was raped and the murdered. She died a slow painful lonely death, and I bet her last thoughts had nothing to do with the religion or race of those committing the crime.

    • Posted By: Sherwin @ 11/18/2007 2:43:19 AM

      An indescribably tragic occurence. At the end of the day it is not only a life lost but the circumstances leading up to that which make it so agonizingly hard to come to terms with. The family of the victim must be totally devastated. I agree with devonlynn1's post on here which to me is a very powerful one because of its simplicity, sensibilities and very down-to-earth take on the incident - one from which it is otherwise soooooo easy to lose one's perspective on because of its shocking details.

  • Posted By: Provos @ 11/18/2007 1:49:49 AM

    This whole discussion bring up the point that everyone is prejudice. Everyone prejudges based on their own experiences. This article is written to play on these prejudices, to sensationalize the story. It is after all designed to sell the magazine. I admit my prejudice, I have come to terms with it but the point is the media will always do what that can to play this up to get interest in the story. There is some circumstantial evidence placing the bar owner near the crime. That and Ms. Knox stating he was there those are the facts we have so far. We know the boyfriend was there by her statement and the possible knife used in the crime was found in his place. It was also stated that he was always seen with a knife. Both Ms. Knox ,her boyfriends, and an unknown set of fingerprints were found at the crime scene. All those are clear facts. My one question is if the British government is not happy about the way the trial is handled can they take over because it was one of their citizens that was killed?

  • Posted By: Real Guy @ 11/16/2007 1:01:31 PM

    In the South, I agree totally with your assertion that race is a myth. The only real, admittedly broad, differences between humans is found in culture. Its culture that drives almost all behavioral patterns. In fact, the National Geographic Gnome project has uncovered DNA proof that all human life can be traced back to Ethiopia. That includes all white, blacks, yellows, browns and any other color one might want to be. I happen to have a granddaughter who was born in Ethiopia and has black skin. However, she is as far from African American culture and behavior as night is from day. Her speech, her behavior, her wants, her needs, her relationship to her adopted, white, southern family is as if she were naturally born to them. So, when "race" is used as a reason or excuse, I think "how stupid is that?" Oh, if that isn't enough proof, think of Tiger Woods. He's black in color and physical genetics only. Otherwise, he's a product of a multi-racial collection of cultures.

    • Posted By: helpfulheroine @ 11/16/2007 7:16:05 PM

      Tiger Woods is actually very Asian in physical genetics and characteristics. He is, after all, mostly Asian. He is not black in physical genetics. He is multi-racial genetically. He is multi-cultural or multi-ethnic culturally. There is a difference.

      You meant that people oversimplifiy race, yet you did yourself.

      • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 11/18/2007 12:27:41 AM

        He wasn't saying that people oversimplify race, he was saying that race doesn't exist in the first place. Tiger Woods is not really "Asian" or "Black." He happens to have genetic variations that Americans LABEL as Asian or Black. But they are just words we have used to describe those various genetic features, they do not describe any actual biological evidence or facts that can be used to determine "race." You might as well say that my sister is a Blue race becuase she has blue eyes and I'm a Brown race becuase I have brown eyes. She has a gene that colors her eyes blue, I have one that colors my eyes brown. You have a gene that colrs your skin darker, I have one that colors mine lighter. It's exactly the same. Every "racial" feature is just that, a genetic variation.

    • Posted By: InTheSouth @ 11/16/2007 1:22:50 PM

      Yeah I was never a racist person to begin with but since I've learned the truth about it, that it doesn't even exist, it drives me crazy to hear people even talk about it. It amazes me that the majority of the world still doesn't understand this truth, even some scientific disciplines aren't aware of it yet. I've heard of psychological studies being done recently trying to determine some kind of differences between "blacks" and "whites" These kinds of experiments are a complete waste of time because "blacks" and "whites" as racial groups don't actually exist lol. As further proof that race is just social you can look at the different racial categories in different countries. They are not all the same. Some countries have racial categories we wouldn't even recognize in America. IIf race were actually real, if there was actaul biological factors to determine it, how could it differ so much between different countries?

      • Posted By: helpfulheroine @ 11/16/2007 7:13:01 PM

        Well, it must exist because I am not white, and I can dance better than all white girls. ha ha. (Although true, this statement is a joke.)

  • Posted By: elibellybu @ 11/16/2007 10:44:48 AM

    Who cares what their gender or race is. All 3 are lying about something and from the mounting evidence, that something is their involvement in this murder. Stick them all in jail.

    • Posted By: Mistress @ 11/16/2007 12:35:17 PM

      i agree

      • Posted By: Provos @ 11/17/2007 10:17:40 PM

        Um, weren't the Jew's slaves in Egypt. Also didn't the British use the Irish as slaves for a long time get over the slavery thing. Were you a slave? No you were not why oh why must it be the race card and the slavery thing. Look into history and you will see that slavery is all over the place.

  • Posted By: kelvinjames @ 11/17/2007 1:04:22 PM

    Who done it and why did they? Curious questions these are. Given that arrests have been made, the 'who?' seems to be, well, a given. The 'why?' offers only more curious questions then even more curious answers. But what stands out is this: Those involved--the victim and the accused--are from three different continents, of four different nationalities and ethnic backgrounds who came together in a quaint little village known for welcoming foreign college students. To this, I remain forever convinced that the world is shrinking and people are depraved.

  • Posted By: okie_magic @ 11/17/2007 12:56:37 AM

    If I had to bet on who did the killing, I would say Sollecito did it. It was his knife and he admitted he liked rough sex. Most violent crimes like this one are committed by males.

  • Posted By: Stormy43 @ 11/16/2007 6:48:29 PM

    It's not about race or nationality, it's a generational thing. The younger types are anti-social and sadistic. All the boys just sit around and look at pornography and all the girls have sex with everyone. They are always looking for a way to cross the line into more extreme behavior. The meltdown in the world is because of the 20 somethings.

    • Posted By: Recu @ 11/16/2007 6:54:53 PM

      Get Real !

      • Posted By: HedleySohn @ 11/16/2007 7:00:16 PM

        I'm pretty sure that she is...

        • Posted By: Recu @ 11/16/2007 7:12:01 PM

          No, no one is really being real here. What this all means is that, this is the time for a change, not a woosie change, not a time out go sit in the corner change. Step back and rethink, and then rethink again and when you think you have it rethink.

          • Posted By: HedleySohn @ 11/16/2007 7:17:34 PM

            Can you elaborate?

            • Posted By: Recu @ 11/16/2007 7:30:09 PM

              Think about it!

              • Posted By: akikmycister @ 11/16/2007 11:21:49 PM

                Maybe this will help? When a statement is made utilizing words like all, always, or everyone, the statement has no validity! What is extreme is this comment. Do you really know what constitutes anti-social behavior ? If you need help look in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th ed. (DSM-IV-TR). I believe after reading the criteria necessary to be Diagnosed with Anti-Social Personality Disorder you will retract your statement that all 20 somethings could really behave this way. Just a thought!

  • Posted By: dottore10 @ 11/16/2007 8:37:02 PM

    I just don't think it is a matter of nationality, in fact in this awful crime different nationality people are involved: american, italian, african - I don't remember the country where the black guy is from - and maybe another one too, that could be even another foreign student from another country

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