MILITARY

A Learning Disability

Little is being done to give vets the educational opportunities their elders enjoyed.

By Dan Ephron | NEWSWEEK

From the magazine issue dated Nov 26, 2007

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Discuss

Posted By: vetfriend @ 03/13/2008 10:06:53 PM

Comment: It is the soldier not the poet not the preacher not the teacher not the reporter not the politician or the protestor that gives us our freedoms. We live in the greatest nation ever because of our military because of the sacrifices they where willing to make and far too many did make. They did it not for a sense of entitlement but because they truly loved their country and to not give them the ability to go to college without putting them into debt is a horrible thing. These men and women deserve so much more.
Posted By: vetfriend @ 03/13/2008 10:02:23 PM

Comment: I think it is absurd that the government will not make a sacrifice for the men and women who give us the very freedoms we possess. For it is the soldier not the poet who gives us freedom of speech, it is the soldier not the preacher who gives us the freedom of religion, it is the soldier not the journalist who gives us the freedom of press. It is the soldier not the protestor who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. Above all it is Americas military that keeps us as the greatest nation in the world and that has and is still providing us with the very freedom we take for granted.
Posted By: jim vaksamides @ 02/07/2008 9:16:58 PM

Comment: time for a new gi bill? only when we win! why encourage gi's to earn a millon and a half more lifetime? to fight for lost souls without hope. to work for corporate intereest? lets wait for the draft to come back. lets put all kinds of donut holes in the bill. why give chidren a chance. to learn earn and return a little. jtv
Posted By: River Rat @ 12/10/2007 5:15:18 PM

Comment: 14 months in Vietnam, two Purple Hearts, Silver Star. Medevacked and discharged. GI Bill paid me $155/month for the 9 months/year that college classes were in session. I worked in an animal hospital cleaning up dog crap for 3 years in exchange for rent. My father, who went across the bridge at Remagen hand-to-hand in 1945 came home to full tuition and a living allowance. The GI Bill is long overdue for an upgrade.
Posted By: evadeva @ 12/10/2007 12:21:59 PM

Comment: I agree with RollingTrip's comment. The Montgomery GI Bill Is tuition assistance. Not pay for everything to include room, board, and stipends.
I have spent 6 years Active duty and have done several deployments and i would never assume the government should now pay for my room and board and complete education expenses for Four years. If you want free room and board you should just stay in and finish your degree on Active Duty. Which is very possible these days with online classes.
Posted By: coll.env @ 12/07/2007 1:03:11 PM

Comment: George bush's main thoughts are for more funding for his Iraq disaster, any other spending is out of context for this Pres.
To hell with America just give me the funding for Iraq !!!!
Posted By: rollingtrip @ 12/04/2007 11:39:19 PM

Comment: Interesting facts but very skewd and weak analysis.

As a veteran who has used the GI bill, along with many of my buddies/employees, I think that these service members need to quit their whining. I graduated last year using the same benefits they get and didn't pay a dime for my Bachelors. My expirience was that the GI Bill payments continued to go up over time as there are many people who do not use the benefit and the remaining funds are reallocated. As for reservists getting less...WHO CARES. They do less. If you join for 4 yrs and work 24/7 you should get more than someone who works one weekend a month and two weeks a year. These guys can cite all the numbers and unique situations that they want. I employee 30 service members (with easily thousands at the organization) who use the benefits ... The only complaints I have EVER heard are the lag times to start the benefit (sometimes up to 3 months) and the customer service (which is mostly alleviated now that they can confirm enrollment online).

Tuition assistance for active members is just that...assistance. If you are provided with a place to live, food to eat, and clothes to wear...why would they pay you more than just TA? Look at it this way...you are being given a chance to learn so that you can come work for me and make more money. When you get out of the military my company will give you TA so you can ask me for a raise when you get your next degree. Still a good deal? YES!

My opinion... suck it up! Grandpa landed on Normandy... reservists: most of you sit in an office or march to the chow hall on the weekend. For those of you who do go to Iraq: You know what you signed up for and come home safe.

Cheers!

In a time where America is suffering financially due to piss poor spending should we really double a benefit that already works?
Posted By: cknge2 @ 12/03/2007 3:41:24 PM

Comment: Thats all fantastic to say that change needs to happen, but the problem is that nothing that will make a substantial difference will actually be passed and put to use until half of those effected are out of the military and moving on to other things while trying to make a better life and reduce debts. No health care... that is a whole other monster.
- Posted By: cknge2 @ 12/03/2007 15:54:05
  
  Comment: Also, the TA that you get while active duty doesn't pay for anything other than the fee for the class itself and other aplicable fees like technology fees or lab fees; not room, board, books or any other extras that some other people were talking about.
Posted By: rugby4u @ 12/03/2007 1:45:56 PM

Comment: this draft dodger president has always shortchanged vets. not only college, but health care. wants to disenroll vets getting health care at va who make over 31k. they pay a fee now, but he wants to kick them out all together
Posted By: texastalker @ 12/02/2007 4:35:30 PM

Comment: His remark about the bonus marchers did not mention that they were fired upon or that they were trying to collect the bonuses before the date promised when the U. S. Treasury was nearly empty during the Depression.
Posted By: Pogey @ 12/01/2007 11:21:40 AM

Comment: Fortunately Illinois paid all tuition if you went to an Illinois state school. Great benefit and incentive to serve. I would like to see that benefit extended to all states. The GI Bill only paid my basic room and board at a state school, but it was definitely helpful. I don't sympathize with people going to private school - anything over the state school tuition should be on your dime. I'm former USMC, so they didn't give me anything as an incentive to join - like they did for the Army and Navy. (this was 1989)
Posted By: arnejat @ 11/30/2007 1:12:26 PM

Comment: Yeah, well you need to accept that you didn't sign up for active, and you don't get the same benefits. You knew the risk and the costs versus the benefits. Also, you need to move into an efficiency and get a damn room mate, and stop whining. Further, you might have to accept the reality that not everyone can go BUCKNELL. Find a cheaper U, or pay the cost. I'm using the MGIB chapter 30 as an Army Veteran, and I was active duty, didn't make BIG MONEY in Iraq, where you have no business spending all that loot with large, tax free, market competitive wages and room and board paid for. I'm a junior now, and I'm going to get my degree with straight A's, without whining, I'm getting the job done. I'm cutting corners where I have to, but hey, I didn't get sent off to a war with hazard pay and tax free pay, for one. He was there for what, one or two years? What did you spend your loot on? Iraqi hunting safaris?
Posted By: LovelyOne @ 11/29/2007 7:21:34 PM

Comment: My boyfriends in the Army Reserves and signed away 8 years of his life to help pay off and finish college, all they are doing is paying back $10,000 of his loan and covering about 1/4 the cost of any classes he takes to finish his degree, i think that's terrible that he signs away 8 years and is going to walk away with $70,000 in school loans instead of $80,000. We don't treat our troops with the respect they deserve. I don't necessarily think that his education should be paid in full but $10,000 for 8 years hardly covers a semester at an average college and does NOTHING for a computer science major attending Virginia Tech.
Posted By: LovelyOne @ 11/29/2007 5:07:36 PM

Comment: My boyfriends in the Army Reserves and signed away 8 years of his life to help pay off and finish college, all they are doing is paying back $10,000 of his loan and covering about 1/4 the cost of any classes he takes to finish his degree, i think that's terrible that he signs away 8 years and is going to walk away with $70,000 in school loans instead of $80,000. We don't treat our troops with the respect they deserve. I don't necessarily think that his education should be paid in full but $10,000 for 8 years hardly covers a semester at an average college and does NOTHING for a computer science major attending Virginia Tech.
Posted By: odis @ 11/29/2007 11:34:16 AM

Comment: I got out of the Army in 1996 and it paid for my entire BS and MS degrees since I already had My AA. It was a very good program for me. It paid me around $1200 a month for 36 month to go to school. I also worked full time, but the thing that helped make it work was the Army College fund that I received on top of the GI bill. I remember when looking at the money aspect of it, the GI Bill would not have been enough alone. Thank God for the Army college fund.
Odis Franklin
Veteran, US Army
Posted By: Infantry Vet @ 11/29/2007 7:56:57 AM

Comment: When I joined the Army infantry in 1982, the post-Vietnam Veterans Education Assistance Program was in effect (VEAP). Although not as good as either the original or current GI Bill, it was enough for me to get a good education at an in state public college. We no longer live in the post-WW2 boomer generation of our grandfathers. This is an era that we may count ourselves fortunate to still have veteran???s benefits. In addition, most of us will not have the retirement pensions, and arguably, the Social Security benefits of previous generations. The global economy has radically altered the realities of American life. This country is now challenged to find its way out of this situation via innovation. We need to manufacture more than burgers and pizza if we want to revive the grand aspirations of our American Dreams. Let's not ask what our country can do for us, but rather what we can do!
Posted By: Sundaygirl @ 11/28/2007 8:58:24 PM

Comment: The government tells our young men and women of age to join the armed forces that the contribute to a college education, that they will be given x amount of money to be used for a college education. I have never heard that that our men and women in the military are told that they will have their college education paid for completely. If the government said, yes go ahead get your college education and we will pay for it, what's to keep someone from making a career out of going to college, because all I've got to do is maintain a good grade average (at or above a 3.0) and I've got my career and the government is going to pay me. For not only have you got your GI Bill, you've got many other grants that give money directly to the student, plus student loans that don't have to be paid back until you finish college. I went to state colleges and got a good education.
Posted By: sheepishsamuel @ 11/28/2007 8:38:15 PM

Comment: God forbit he go to a state school like the rest of the unwashed masses. It goes to show: if you give a Marine a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk (or fine brandy in this case).
Posted By: uncledrunkie @ 11/28/2007 11:22:56 AM

Comment: This article has a few short comings, A few Bloggers here are ignorant to them too. To begin with reservists as long as they are still in the guard or reserves get Tuition assistance of 100% of college costs. If they get out, they get less because they didn't serve full time. They should know that when they enlist. I was active from 98 till 02 in the Navy, I paid $1,600 and received $1,030 a month for 10 SEMESTERS = 5 years. In fact with map and pell, I had enough to pay school, RENT, CAR, FOOD. I got a part time job just because I wanted one. I lived FAT on the HOG for it, now going to work is hard. I also used Tuition assistance to be a Sophomore in college before I even left the military. So any vet that says "Woe is me, I can't go to school" needs to look at the real reason. Furthermore, some MOS/Rates get toppers of up to $1,000 a month MGIB.
Posted By: uncledrunkie @ 11/28/2007 11:20:22 AM

Comment: This article has a few short comings, A few Bloggers here are ignorant to them too. To begin with reservists as long as they are still in the guard or reserves get Tuition assistance of 100% of college costs. If they get out, they get less because they didn't serve full time. They should know that when they enlist. I was active from 98 till 02 in the Navy, I paid $1,600 and received $1,030 a month for 10 SEMESTERS = 5 years. In fact with map and pell, I had enough to pay school, RENT, CAR, FOOD. I got a part time job just because I wanted one. I lived FAT on the HOG for it, now going to work is hard. I also used Tuition assistance to be a Sophomore in college before I even left the military. I also had friends who were Reservists and guard going to school, they had it easy in college too.
Posted By: cwg913 @ 11/27/2007 11:45:15 PM

Comment: The choice of college that you attend is exactly that: a choice. Bucknell is a great university but there are plenty of other colleges and universities in and around Pennsylvania that offer a great education. If you choose to go to a private university then expect to fork over some cash for that education. It's sort of like the housing allowance the military provides. They have a set amount (different for each duty station because of cost of living) that they will give you but if you decide to live above that allowance, the rest of the money will come out of YOUR pocket.
Posted By: cww909 @ 11/27/2007 11:10:38 PM

Comment: i agree with lasthero...why couldn't he have chose a state school? and also looked for other options for scholarships. i went to a state school without the help of family and had to take out loans, which i can live with. but picking a private school and then griping about the amount of money you have to take out in loans? come on, you cant expect the government to fork out $120K + for school.
Posted By: lasthero @ 11/27/2007 4:53:05 PM

Comment: The GI Bill isnt meant to pay for housing and college, just for college. Plus, it is non-taxable, so anyone getting the GI Bill, even if they have a part time job, will qualify for Pell Grants. In addition, it is MORE than enough to pay for state college. I went to ASU, worked part time, got pell grants, and graduated with a 3.92 in 3.5 years, now im in medical school. Enlisting in the Army and the GI BIll are what let me get where I am today.
Posted By: sewwild @ 11/27/2007 3:27:32 PM

Comment: $4 billion is too much for Americans to pay to the young men and women who risk their lives so that we may feel safe in our homes? If we can pay trillions of dollars for a war we can at least compensate those people who go over to fight it. They don't have much incentive besides patriotism to go into the military. Education is one of the foundation ingredients to a healthy society. To give these soldiers an educational incentive to risk their lives and limbs and sanity, sleep in lousy conditions, eat less than marginal food and only get paid pennies, enduring all of that for our country's sake; we owe them a future through higher education, at the very least!
Posted By: sergeant rock @ 11/27/2007 9:48:43 AM

Comment: Jimmy Carter is a lien hypocrite idiotic dirty rotten liar in the first place he signed away the GI bill back stabbing pea brain everyone that gets in to the government these days thinks there better than every one else jimmy carter is the biggest ever that was a president and he's shown it thru the years he goes around to the enemy's of this county and then comes home and tells the American people there no good sobs in that since his mouth is bigger than his brain he does not respect the American military or the county for signing away are rights and are freedoms he got his education from the GI bill all he was a office job pencil pusher in the military coward the military deservers the same treatment . A government job is just a service job it don't make you god when you are elected president wake up America
Posted By: USAFSrg @ 11/26/2007 7:42:59 PM

Comment: As a 25-year veteran of the US Air Force, I am among a small number of people still on active duty who enrolled during the Veteran's Education Assistance program, or VEAP. VEAP was a far less-generous program that offered $2 for every $1 the member contributed. The $100 per month contribution seemed pretty steep to a new enlistee at that time, and I declined to sign up for VEAP. Years later when the more-generous Montgomery GI Bill was enacted, servicemembers who had money in their VEAP accounts were offered the opportunity to transfer to MGIB. However, those who initially declined VEAP were never offered the opportunity to enroll in MGIB. Therefore, as I approach the end of my active duty career, I have zero educational benefits available to prepare for a second career. I've written my Congressman and those on the hill know the situation we are in; but like so many other issues, Congress figures this is a problem that will go away with time (as we all retire) and they can ignore the fact that those of us who helped win the Cold War and Desert Storm will fade into obscurity and settle for a low-skill second career. Hello, Wal-Mart...
Posted By: losjedis1 @ 11/26/2007 12:05:43 PM

Comment: You know it very hard to judge when Cubans are given everything as soon as they get here, as for illegals..The system in the US doesn't give services unless you can legally prove that you have been a resident for 5 years or US documents for Citizens. As for the loss of services for the GI's, that is the government trying to cheat its servicemen, so take it up with your senior or the government. No need to be racist.
Posted By: losjedis1 @ 11/26/2007 11:55:02 AM

Comment: You know it very hard to judge when Cubans are given everything as soon as they get here, as for illegals..The system in the US doesn't give services unless you can legally prove that you have been a resident for 5 years or US documents for Citizens. As for the loss of services for the GI's, that is the government trying to cheat its servicemen, so take it up with your senior or the government. No need to be racist agaist . if you don't like something VOTE and make a difference.
Posted By: Cubie7 @ 11/25/2007 3:42:43 PM

Comment: I believe it is a sad day in the history of this nation when vote seeking Senators and Representatives propose giving benefits to Illegal aliens and their families while veterans make up a 25% of the homeless. As a veteran who has been denied medical benefits it galls me to see the cream of our youth begging on street corners because the same government which sent them to war will not help them. Enough of this crap and let's get help to those brave young men and women who have given their all.

Damaso V. Santana
Miami, florida
Posted By: prairieson @ 11/25/2007 1:44:37 AM

Comment: One additional correction: Hoover did not order an attack on the Bonus Army; infact, he forbade it (in writing). MacArthur disregarded this Presidential Directive (with encouragement from the Secretary of War), an action that likely cost him his automatic reappointment as Chief of Staff and got him banished to the Philippines.
Posted By: russdav @ 11/24/2007 11:04:17 AM

Comment: lets replace bush and set term limits. no more career politicians whose only concern is themsellves. gaining power, money in their pockets from large companies seeking bills that rape the public and make them rich. their hands are in the pockets of our politicians. both parties are guilty.
Posted By: MaxeyDO @ 11/23/2007 3:46:46 PM

Comment: Poor educational assistance is nothing new. Prior to the Montgomery plan there was VEAP. After almost ten years service, including Desert Shield/ Storm I got $211 monthly to cover tuition, book, fees, and living expenses. The benefits now are huge by comparison. If a veteren a school picks carefully, a bachelaureate is easily achievable. I eventually got a doctorate using tenacity and student loans, just like everyone alse!
Posted By: ingenious1 @ 11/23/2007 3:11:12 PM

Comment: To that end, I think there are things we can do for our vets, even if the government refuses to help. Things like offering more scholarship opportunities through private trusts like the one mentioned at the end of the article. Universities could also also voluntarily discount tuition rates for veterans and active service reserves.
Posted By: ingenious1 @ 11/23/2007 3:08:44 PM

Comment: As a recent college graduate I know that pain of student loans, I don't think it's something our vetrans should have to go through. They have put their lives on the lines to protect us from terrorists and to bring democracy and hope to the far reaches of the world, the least we can do is provide for them when they return. If we don't take care of them now I think we will quickly find that we are taking care of them at an exponentially higher rate in the future because we'll be paying for their welfare benefits. Though I do think returning soldiers should look more closely at state schools, there are a lot of great ones out there! It's hard to feel THAT bad for the soldier highlighted in the story, he CHOSE to go to a school that would cost $42,000 a year knowing full well what benefits he would get from the government for his service.
Posted By: rturner2 @ 11/23/2007 1:38:19 PM

Comment: As a vet that is using the G.I. Bill, I think the G.I. Bill is fair. Even though I would like to see them pay more, it is enough to cover costs at in-state public universities in most cases. We have to take what is offered and find a school that fits the budget or otherwise apply for additional scholarships,grants or loans. I agree we all could use additional education benefits, but I think $46,000 a year is absurd.
Posted By: ronaldpen @ 11/23/2007 9:11:11 AM

Comment: As a Viet Nam Vet, I only got anout 2100 dollars a year that was limited to 4 years of full time benefits. After inflation, what would that be worth today. I graduated but worked 20 tp- 30 hours a week and lived at home. It seems to me that the money could be adjusted so Vets could have 4 years of support and work part time and be able to make it. Also. colleges should volunarily forego the costs of some of the tuition, especially if they need the additional students for full enrollment . Book companies (a significant part of the costs) could help also id the college ID identifies that person as a Vet.)

I cannot beleive after all the jaw boning the chickenhawk Bush and his supporters do about how much we owe Vets, he is not standing up ad demanding this. Guess that is part of his being a hypocrite, liar and born again Christian.
Posted By: mfenwick @ 11/23/2007 8:50:48 AM

Comment: All through history the military has been used to defend those in power, NEVER the common people. Yet money is stolen(i.e. taxes) from these people by their wretched governments to fund wars and skirmishes that benefit only those in power. This is why I despise the military as an institution and why I do not feel sorry for military men and women who get a raw deal from the very people they are supposed to be defending! If they are stupid enough to believe all this God-Country-Mom-And-Apple-Pie nonsense then let them die or get their arms and legs blown off. I would like to ask any veteran if living the rest of his life without limbs, eyesight, hearing, or mental stability was worth the sacrifice. Are any of you stupid enough to believe that Bush or any of his cronies, let alone your own congressmen or senators, personally know anyone who has fought in a war and returned normal?
- Posted By: mivie @ 11/25/2007 11:38:29
  
  Comment: I can't belive I gave up 4 years of my life proudly serving my country to make sure *** like you can live the amercian dream. thank you for your support.
Posted By: mfenwick @ 11/23/2007 8:26:00 AM

Comment: Time for a reality check: Just who is going to pay for all this? Yes, that's right; you and I will pay for all this. Our taxes will go through the roof . Besides, who in their right mind would want to go fight somebody els's war anyway? Military men and women are not fighting for freedom, America, justice, blah, blah, blah; they are fighting for the whims of a bunch of politicians in Washington. No, I don't feel sorry for military men and women who get the shaft from the very people they are defending. If they had any sense they would tell Bush and his cronies where they can stick their war and then they would lay down their weapons and walk away from it all. That would solve alot of all this empire-building nonsense and prevent America from taking over the world as it seems intent on doing.
- Posted By: poetwarriorprince @ 03/13/2008 13:57:37
  
  Comment: You know mfenwick, you're not the only one that has this point of view. Very few people realize that it is not the words of the founding fathers that allows you to enjoy your level of freedom. It's only those who risk their blood that maintain the freedom for everyone. Not reporters nor lawyers and politians, but the military because the tree of freedom requires the blood patriots and tyrannts. When you become a slave you will realize that you cannot talk yourself free. You will not be able to buy your freedom with taxes. In a land where the currency is not based on precious metals or land. The value of the currency is directly to the number of people willing to shed blood in its defense.
- Posted By: amvet @ 11/26/2007 11:44:26
  
  Comment: mfenwick must be a Muslim from Iraq and worried about us Americans taking over that piss-poorly run and operated country! Maybe America should take over the world, it would be a much better place to live in. Then we wouldn't have to worry about war and idiotic people like this person making such comments. It's okay to be upset at the politcal parties in Washington, but to be upset at the entire country..........Give me a break!
  Sincerly your American Veteran
Posted By: nicklcowboy @ 11/23/2007 4:12:29 AM

Comment: As a vietnam vet my school fees were not even close to what my father recieved after ww2. I can't even start to imagine how hard it is for our young men today. Yes its time to step up and help these fine men , and it should not matter if the are enlisted army or national guard. They are giving just as much of themselfs as any past generation.
Posted By: mrtrav1 @ 11/22/2007 9:54:56 AM

Comment: Part of the root cause of this problem has got to be the rising tuition costs. Much of the responsibility ought to reside with the universities and colleges that continue to charge these prices sending many graduates into debt. Then they spend years working at a job trying to pay that debt. If the education is as valuable as the price tag universities assign to it, maybe we wouldn't have so much of a problem. Here we're ridiculing the government for not keeping pace with the crazy pace of tuition. Schools ought to waive some of these costs for veterans, or maybe reconsider the real value in the education they're providing people; it shouldn't take more years to payoff student debt than it did to go to school.
Posted By: mrtrav1 @ 11/22/2007 9:53:57 AM

Comment: Part of the root cause of this problem has got to be the rising tuition costs. Much of the responsibility ought to reside with the universities and colleges that continue to charge these prices sending many graduates into debt. Then they spend years working at a job trying to pay that debt. If the education is as valuable as the price tag universities assign to it, maybe we wouldn't have so much of a problem. Here we're ridiculing the government for not keeping pace with the crazy pace of tuition. Schools ought to waive some of these costs for veterans, or maybe reconsider the real value in the education they're providing people; it shouldn't take more years to payoff student debt than it did to go to school.
Posted By: Bookman1 @ 11/22/2007 1:49:21 AM

Comment: With the country spending so much money in Iraq the dollar is not worth what it was in the time after WWII and Korea. THe small amount given to Vietnam Vets was just enough to get them by. Now with the US spending more than they can afford in Iraq, leaves the veteran at the short end of the stick. When will the government adjust the amounts to give these young soliders so that they can have a future. Not everyone wants to be a solider all their life. Remember these universities would rather give a scholarship to bounce or throw a ball than they are to give a financial break to our young men and women who have served our country.
Posted By: nielsetj @ 11/21/2007 8:20:05 PM

Comment: Your article is completely correct in everything except that President Jimmy Carter did not get his college education through the GI Bill. President Carter is a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and did his graduate work as an active duty Naval officer. He was a cadet during WWII; graduating in 1946.
Posted By: bobeckel @ 11/21/2007 1:08:56 PM

Comment: With the exception of WW2 and Korea our treatment of vets has been a disgrace.
My thoughts:
The Traditional Reward For The Heroic Troops!
During the peak of British imperial power Rudyard Kipling penned the poem ???Tommy??? about the attitude of the British ruling class toward their troops, both during hostilities and in the aftermath.

History is replete with the treatment of the heroic troops from Victorian England to the American Bonus Marchers of the 1930???s. With the exception of American World War Two veterans who received the thanks of a grateful nation in the form of the GI Bill of Rights. In the present day, The veterans??? reward for horrible sacrifices has been to be kicked to the curb.

The current Republican Administration has taken special pains to starve the VA of resources to help the veterans return to normal lives. All of the non-WW2 vets to whom I have spoken have complained of shabby treatment by the bureaucracy while praising the compassionate efforts of individual VA employees. During the Iraq war there have been rumblings of this nations??? neglect. Now, Dana Priest of the Washington Post has written an expose of conditions at Building 18 at Walter Reed Hospital. Nightly, further revelations of neglect of seriously wounded troops, both in body and mind, appear on television, both on PBS and on the corporate media.

The response of the high level officials of both DOD and the VA is to claim complete ignorance of the shameful conditions and to blame the troops for not keeping their quarters neat and clean.

On March 1, 2007, we learned that service personnel and veterans have been ordered not to speak to the press if they perceive neglect, but go through the established chain of command. Where has the Rove-Cheney-Bush failed to betray the most vulnerable of the American people?

I heartily recommend a reading of Rudyard Kipling???s ???Tommy???. You can ???Google??? it.

Robert D. Eckel
1775 Meadow Rd.
Southampton, PA 18966
(215) 355-5925
BobEckel@Verizon.net
Posted By: Inquire @ 11/21/2007 11:48:28 AM

Comment: As a Vietnam vet with six years active duty I felt that the $105 per month that I received while going to the university barely paid tuition. I was married and had to work 40 hours a week to support my wife and child.
Had the GI educational bill paid more I would have went on to graduate school.
One bit of sage advice, do not go into engineering. American engineers are being replaced by cheap but incompetent labor from India.
- Posted By: rturner2 @ 11/23/2007 13:46:03
  
  Comment: As a full-time student, the G.I. Bill will pay $1101.00 a month to an accredited institution. For the average school that is between $3,000 to $4,000 per semester. It can be done.
Posted By: Sanddollr @ 11/21/2007 11:25:27 AM

Comment: Having served 21 years as an active duty enlisted Marine 74-95, i provide the following advice to all....
A college degree is essential for a good paying white collar job, and in some cases a blue collar job. Regardless of the path you choose in the future, get a college education. The real point of addressing the issues with Veterans Benefits should begin by looking at the salary structure of Government Employees. from the lowest grade of GS-1 ($16,630) to the highest grade of GS-15 Step 10 ($120,981)(OPM.Gov Salary rates) and does not include the cost of living rates which will take it even higher, compared with the Military pay rates Private ($14,436) to a Colonel over 20 years (98,161) . Yes these get other benefits, and yes they can retire at 20 years, but the retirement is based on their base pay, which I have shown. If we are to address the benefits that the military gets compared to their counterpart the Government emplyee....they are on call 24 days a week, can end up in a war zone, work more than 40 per week, could be expected to be separated from their family for more than 3 or more years on manuevers, training schools, or deployed for a year or more in places where others are trying to kill them.......our civilian counterparts....hmmm, they work 40 hours a week and then get paid extra money, hardley ever are away from their families (State Deaprtment unaccompanied tours excepted), never have to pack-up and move, repatedly over the course of a career, usually don't make enough to even consider buying a home....
If everyone wants to talk about benefits for volunteers who are willing to die for their country regardless of the politics, then compare the benefits to what other government employees are getting as the foundation to work from...

The military volunteers deserve more than empty promises made by people that represent them...
- Posted By: Jay Burnz @ 11/21/2007 12:38:52
  
  Comment: Amen to that! We are fortunate to have attracted the caliber of recruit that we've been attracting for the last 30 years or so. I doubt that the military is going to have as much appeal to this generation's youth unless they make some serious changes that keep today's costs of living at the forefront during their planning. As well as considering tradeoffs that will make recruits at least feel like they have some choices or options to enhance their lives and the lives of their families.
Posted By: atro10 @ 11/20/2007 8:24:18 PM

Comment: As an ex-military i sympathize with the problems that today's enlistee's face. However, please remember that unlike those who were forcibly removed from their homes into the military by the draft, you chose to enter the military. There are many benefits to being in the military as well as the deficits. For those unmarried, your pay is virtually untouched by the expenses that most americans have to cover. Put some of that money into an educational fund instead of a night out with the rest of the guys.
Posted By: jojoc10 @ 11/20/2007 5:00:13 PM

Comment: Sorry, I certainly appreciate your service, I realize my comments might have offended you. However, my point was that those who actually got fired at and went on combat patrols outside of the wire should receive precedence. Once these men and women have been taken care of, then you can go to college. And yes, I do currently serve in the military and yes I did serve in Baghdad.
Posted By: MSTuscg @ 11/20/2007 2:55:19 PM

Comment: As a current active duty member in the military, i think that those who have something negative to say about the "so-called veterans" should serve some time, whether it be over-seas or not- that way, they can understand the hardships ALL of the military personnel go through
Posted By: jojoc10 @ 11/20/2007 3:56:28 AM

Comment: Bottom line...only those who were deployed in support of OEF or OIF should receive any benefits whatsoever. The rest of these so-called veterans can continue to receive the benefits that they get and if they want to get a college education, they can pay for it themselves.
- Posted By: MSTuscg @ 11/20/2007 15:01:59
  
  Comment: Have you even served in the military? Do you know anything about what the CONUS-stationed military personnel deal with on a regular basis?
Posted By: R_DNORTON @ 11/20/2007 12:38:42 AM

Comment: THE GI BILL WAS A GREAT THING. I WAS UNDER THE OLD GI BILL AND RECEIVED A $600.00 A MONTH PAYMENT FOR HALF TIME. I COULD NOT AFFORD TO LIVE ON THIS BUT COULD PAY MY SCHOOL BILLS WITH IT.

THE PROBLEM OF AFFORDABLILTY???SOME STATES HAVE ADDITIONAL BENEFITS FOR THEIR VETERANS, ONE INCLUDED FREE TUISION. (IT BEEN AWHILE AND I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY STILL DO). THIS MAY BE THE WAY TO GO. IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD GET STATES TO HELP WITH THE TUISON COST AT STATE UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES OR MAYBE KICK IN THE ROOM AND BOARD. THIS IS A NATIONAL ISSUE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CARRY THE FULL WEIGHT.
Posted By: R_DNORTON @ 11/20/2007 12:37:08 AM

Comment: THE GI BILL WAS A GREAT THING. I WAS UNDER THE OLD GI BILL AND RECEIVED A $600.00 A MONTH PAYMENT FOR HALF TIME. I COULD NOT AFFORD TO LIVE ON THIS BUT COULD PAY MY SCHOOL BILLS WITH IT.

THE PROBLEM OF AFFORDABLILTY???SOME STATES HAVE ADDITIONAL BENEFITS FOR THEIR VETERANS, ONE INCLUDED FREE TUISION. (IT BEEN AWHILE AND I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY STILL DO). THIS MAY BE THE WAY TO GO. IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD GET STATES TO HELP WITH THE TUISON COST AT STATE UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES OR MAYBE KICK IN THE ROOM AND BOARD. THIS IS A NATIONAL ISSUE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CARRY THE FULL WEIGHT.
Posted By: timmytee2516 @ 11/19/2007 4:25:19 PM

Comment: i am a veteran of peace time 8years served we came in under a program called VEAP wasn,t worth the paper it was written on with the pay a soldier got. These soldiers put their lives on the line for our country and they should be rewarded justly for their future and the future of this country.
Posted By: timmytee2516 @ 11/19/2007 4:21:58 PM

Comment: yeah our government has short change a many of our veterans the program iwas under in the military was call VEAP it sucked and i served eight years and got nothing for college these vets definitly deserve more and veap was not retroactive to the 1985 gi bill unbelieveable.
Posted By: cmcoates @ 11/19/2007 2:39:26 PM

Comment: First, one correction. The GI Bill benefit was not $9900/year for four years. It was $9900, period. But it has increased every year. I noticed the Bush Administration is opposed to an increase, well duh. The Bush administration is and has been, elitist. Anything that is going to help the lower and middle class come up to their level, they will be opposed to. If it had been a proposal for corporate tax cuts, they would be all over it. I have used my GI Bill while still on Active duty and my spouse was able to use hers but it didn't come no where near paying for her BS degree. We still had over $10K in student loans, she used a Pell grant all four years and that was at a state college, (TSUD- Alabama) As a side note, I am a senior NCO, with 19 years in the Army.
Posted By: dewcooper @ 11/19/2007 2:22:37 PM

Comment: When will people stop looking to the government for handouts? I served in the military and realized that the Montgomery GI Bill was not going to send me to Harvard, so I picked a school that I could afford.

This is a two part rpoblem, the first being that most colleges and universities are financially ill-managed (nothing like liberals sticking it to the common man) and that people don't realize that the governemnt doesn't print money. Any increases in spending of any kind comes from OUR pockets. Stop over taxing us and we can afford better things without the governemnt.
- Posted By: mynor142 @ 11/20/2007 10:18:13
  
  Comment: Actually, dewcooper, the government does print money and over the last 8 years has done so at an alarming rate, hence the 40% drop in the value of the dollar since Bush took office. That is the problem with the fiscal policy of this administration, they have grossly increased spending while at the same time offering tax cuts across the board. They have paid for this increase by printing money as fast as they can run the presses. The only reason why the dollar is valued as highly as it is now is that the governments of several eastern asian countries have sustained its value by buying up the dollar. Perhpas if the government had offred you a greater amount under the GI bill then you could have taken elementary classes in economics, finance, and political science so that you could make a logically sound argument.
Posted By: gbagen @ 11/19/2007 12:23:07 PM

Comment: When I came back from Vietnam, my GI Bill was $175/month, with a maximum benefit of 36 months ($6,300). And these volunteers are complaining about therir pay? I started at less than $100/mopnth as a draftee.
Posted By: conheme @ 11/19/2007 10:20:18 AM

Comment: How can the worlds Judicial bodies sit back and see all the rules flouted by the hang picked kangroo court decisions of pakistan supreme court decisions in favor of Mr. Musharraf.These courts follow international jurisprudence .Decisions by these hand picked Judgtes become part of the Archives. Please someone ACT to stop this.
Posted By: JetRanger @ 11/19/2007 1:39:33 AM

Comment: testing
Posted By: SSG L @ 11/18/2007 9:54:19 PM

Comment: The programs that put my father thru school ended very abuptly after Vietnam. I was only offered the Veteran's Educational Assistance Program (VEAP). And for that, the government contributed $2 for every $1 I put in the program, with a ceiling of $2100 for me. The Montgomery GI bill was a welcome improvement, but it's time is past. The WWII program needs to be approved and funded immediately, with a stipend of well over $50. You can retain troops past their initial enlistments by allowing no "use it or lose it" deadline. The program would be life long - with all incentives (Tuition Assistance, for example) remaining in place.

As for some of the comments about "this administration", let's remember that for 8 inglorious years, we had "that administration", and may end up having "that administration" again. "That administration" did exactly nothing on this issue (and it's been around a while). To have a bill that everyone loves stay in committee under "that Congress" and force feed it to the White House (and then override the veto) is just as negligent as some of the comments listed.

Lastly, having served for over 25 years, this country really needs mandatory conscription, not a draft. Every 18 year old needs to serve at least 4 years on active duty (or 6 years for Reserve service) and qualify for the new GI Bill program. There should be no exceptions or exemptions for this service - you can still serve in the Reserve components and go to college. The fact that the services are considering allowing felons with multiple convictions does a serious disservice to the United States.

Iraq / Afghanistan / etc have absolutely nothing to do with anything. Republicans, Democrats, and the rest need to stop fueling rhetoric down all of our throats and start doing what's right for the country. I'm no Democrat, but John Edwards hit the nail on the head when he said "We don't need to replace corporate Republicans with corporate Democrats".

Amen to that.

SSG L.
Posted By: mynor142 @ 11/18/2007 8:07:01 PM

Comment: Quite typical of this administration... You need $60 billion to fund the reconstruction of Iraq? No problem. A couple billion more to pay private contractors to provide security? As long as they vote republican... You need 4 billion to pay tuition and living expenses so that the honorable men and women who have served the citizens not only of this country, but of Iraq as well? Do you think the government is made of oil? Need money to help float the expenses of treating that PTSD you developed in the line of duty? Sorry, its just not in the budget this year - the top tax bracket really need their tax breaks, and if we start giving healthcare to our vets, then people will start thinking that children are entitled to it as well....

The federal government should be ashamed of itself for turning its back on our veterans. Bush has given private men and women tax breaks so that they can "stimilate the economy" by blowing the money at Wal-mart on products manufactured in East Asia, but when it comes to paying back the veterans who have answered his call and are putting their lives on the line on the other side of the world, a decent education and mere adequate treatment for their physical and emotional wounds is just too much to ask.
Posted By: paconportola @ 11/18/2007 3:17:26 PM

Comment: To say we can't to this because it would hurt recruitment is shameful. The best way to end this travesty is to put back a real draft with no easy outs as so many of our "leaders" used in the past. If the civilian population is threatened with the draft, either the new GI Bill is put in place or the citizenry will rise up and end this misbegotten war.
Posted By: FranklinWilliams @ 11/18/2007 12:50:51 AM

Comment: As a soldier overseas who is serving finshing up his last deployements with just months away from being back in the states, it would be nice to see and hear more than "we support you" and "support our troops" from the President and congress. Paying tuition "plus" would be an EXCELLENT way to show support for us soldiers who have served honorably.
Thank you for writing this article and raising awareness.

SGT W.
Posted By: FranklinWilliams @ 11/18/2007 12:50:33 AM

Comment: As a soldier overseas who is serving finshing up his last deployements with just months away from being back in the states, it would be nice to see and hear more than "we support you" and "support our troops" from the President and congress. Paying tuition "plus" would be an EXCELLENT way to show support for us soldiers who have served honorably.
Thank you for writing this article and raising awareness.

SGT W.

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