Kurdistan Goes Sour

As violence elsewhere in Iraq dies down, Kurdish frustration is up.

By Larry Kaplow | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Nov 17, 2007 | Updated: 3:04  p.m. ET Nov 17, 2007

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  • Posted By: rockfish2 @ 11/20/2007 10:29:15 AM

    NO MORE BUSH-SH T,

  • Posted By: 31BSoldier @ 11/18/2007 1:08:19 AM

    How little you people know, those of you who haven't been over here, and have no first hand knowledge of what goes on over here. These extremist groups would like nothing better than to die killing an American, whether it's a Soldier or your small child, they believe it will secure (what they believe) a place in heaven for them. Perhaps you should enlist and get some real world experience, instead of being an "arm-chair expert".

    • Posted By: dh1272 @ 11/19/2007 3:10:35 PM

      Additionally 31BSoldier --- with all due respect - remember that just a little over two hundred years we were the terrorists/insurgents here in America, because the "IMPERIALISTS" (the brittish) were on our territory trying to tell us what to do !!!! Its for all intents and purposes the same thing then as it is now with us in Iraq, We would not have been committing acts as insurgents back then, had they (the brittish) minded there own buisiness and leave us alone to rule ourselves as we saw fit. The very act of going to war there in Iraq, was completely against all the democratic principles we stand for here in the USA, a true democracy doesn't force democracy on another country. Agreeably Sadaam's regime was evil, but he was contained, I think the Bushies should be removed from the seats of government in Washington, but that doesn't me I would advocate destroying Washingtons buildings, infrastructure, at the perril of its citizens to accomplish it. Neither should we have gone over to Iraq !!!!

  • Posted By: 31BSoldier @ 11/18/2007 1:09:28 AM

    How little you people know, those of you who haven't been over here, and have no first hand knowledge of what goes on over here. These extremist groups would like nothing better than to die killing an American, whether it's a Soldier or your small child, they believe it will secure (what they believe) a place in heaven for them. Perhaps you should enlist and get some real world experience, instead of being an "arm-chair expert".

    • Posted By: dh1272 @ 11/19/2007 2:39:54 PM

      31BSoldier !!! What we people do know is that we think very highly of you and all the rest of the soldiers, we are proud of you, you are following oders and being the best you can be. Unfortunately, we also know that the Bushies missled US CITIZENS and you fine soldiers, into believing (only for a short time however, the public has seen this war for what it is) that we needed to fight the terrorists over there, well our Bushies lied, there were no terrorists in IRAQ of any, even miniscule numbers, until the BUSHIES perpetrated this ellegal war, which has made Islamic peoples very angry and rightfully so !!! This War was the origination of terrorists/alquida in Iraq !!! Its been proven over and over, the Bushies made this evil bed we are now laying in !!!!! We must get out !!!!!!

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 11/18/2007 8:35:56 PM

    Why do Americans have to go to there. Why do Americans have to engage into so many wars. Why do Americans have to meddle with other contries? When things backfire, the Americans start to point-fingers. You are NOT the policemen of the world. Can't you promote peace instead of war? Can't you spend the tillion dollars for the betterment of others if not your own countrymen - those involved in katrina, the recent fire in California, the homeless in your country, the war veterans, help to reduce the global warming. If you want oil, buy them through the normal means and not by invading other countries. If you are nice to people, people will be nice to you! Now who is violating other peoples law? America in violating the international law by invading others, yes just like the Romans. Learn from history, note that all so-called superpowers had previously been doomed and wiped out from the face of the earth, remember that.

    • Posted By: dh1272 @ 11/19/2007 2:28:48 PM

      Nawawimohamad ---- I agree with you wholeheartedly !!!!! I have traveled to Europe several times and have read all sides for many years, the whole world wishes we (the USA) would mind our own business. (grant it there have been wars that we were asked to help-ie; the 2nd world war) Most americans I am proud to say are against the terrible war the "BUSHIES" forced on Iraq, and so negatively affected the middle east and most of the rest of the world. I have long said oh how great an opportunity "BUSHIES" had to join in and lead the world in technology developement to get us all off the need for OIL. But no!!!!! the Bushies took us back to an archaic mindset and took us over there to the middle east to CONTROL OIL!!!!!! Anyone who hasn't figured that out by now must be willfully ignorant !!! Nawawimohamad, you are so right too about "BUSHIES" not taking care of our problems here at home, he has been busy vetoeing bills that were passed by our senate and house to invest in our children, heath care, and infrastructure, as well as for our veterans who are maimed because of his damn war. Most of us here in the USA who read and think for ourselves are deeply pained, dissappointed, and angry over what Bush has sold to our military and the public as a was against terrorism, when its actually about OIL !!! We hurt inside over what this damn war has done to the decent Islamic folk in the middle east. Our Governments long time interference in the middle east over OIL has to a very very large degree, brought about the fenominen of the terroists. (even so even these are just a small minority among Islamic peoples) nawawimohamad I would welcome you to come and lets get acquainted, maybe we can in a small way start mending this terrible rift between our peoples. Hopefully our next president will lead our governments to talk, to exchange, to trade, to share good technologies between and for the common good of both our peoples. This kind of activities between us all will bring about awareness that we really are all just alike !!!! please join me at myspace/island camping. (PS !!!! TO THE BUSHIES WHO MIGHT USE YOUR ILLEGAL SURVEILLANCE ON ANY CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN A US CITIZEN AND A MIDDLE EASTERN PERSON ----- FEEL FREE TO READ ALL YOU WANT !!!!!! I LOVE MY COUNTRY> BUT I WANT TO DO MY PART TO SOMEHOW IN A SMALL WAY REPAIR THE DAMAGE YOU BUSHIES HAVE DONE !!!!!

  • Posted By: beannemarie @ 11/18/2007 8:55:33 PM

    Muslum fanatics attacked the US..do you remember 9/11 (how soon we all forget recent history) and Iraq is a means to draw them out and destroy them!

    • Posted By: dh1272 @ 11/19/2007 1:53:31 PM

      How rediculous beannemarie !!!! Even Bush has quit saying that there was a connection between Iraq, Alquida, and 9-11. He quit saying it because it was disproved early in his illegal war for control of oil !!!! We !!! The US Government is why there is Alquida and terrorists in Iraq !!!!! Bush couldn't have handed Alquida and the terrorists a more welcome recuiting reason than his damn war !!!! I know you want to feel that your sons ( who I have great respect for) are fighting for our freedom so you can feel good about it, but you and them will come to the factual realization that IRAQ HAD/HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR FREEDOMS HERE IN THE USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: krisofl @ 11/18/2007 11:18:28 AM

    To 31B soldier- I am former army, 101st, during Iran hostage crises. I know of the "tribal" and religious sects in the ME. You are correct- many would kill in a heartbeat, in the of jihad. Americans would call those creating the problems "cultist". Now factor in the worthless "son-in-laws" or cousins who get high ranking jobs due to family ties, and viola- instant criminals. We would call them "mobsters". My main question-- what country "thinks" they would become the savior of the ME with interferring, creating chaos? Hint- it is not ours. Our main problem is we cannot conceive of tribal counsels power in ME countries since we pretty much elimanated native americans. We let rich people win elections, who have no comprehension of another countries society. Btw, I am an Independant running, and as poor as the next, as I refuse campaign contributions. However, I spend my time--reading, everything. I know the tactics the Persians are using. Almond Joy is quite delusional. He is aligned with another fruitcake, Chavez. Chavez has boughten over $3 billion worth of military weapons/ vehicles from Russia. Chavez is aligned with Castro. How easy is it for Iran, to transport to Venezula? Very. How close is Venezula to the USA? We need to secure our borders, become "neutral", sit back and just watch, with our only threat of "our finger is posed over the button". State our intolerance for political bullshit, atrocities against any human, and the blantant disregard of humans to justify their actions, wheither it be killing an animal, destroying habitat, etc. You see, if we tell countries we are becoming "neutral" (unless attacked, then we will release the fury that will be compared to the wrath of God),and withdrawing our funding of their governments, what do you think would happen?? Do you even know the amount of money we send to foreign governments? I think we could use much of that money here, for our natural born citizens (I am not paying for illegals, of any country, who broke our laws to come here, or to stay here upon visa's expiring--- my husband is in France, awaiting immigration here, so I am not prejudiced against any foreign national- just the ones violating the laws intentionally). The problem is many natural citizens violate their respective laws in their country, and feel they can do it in ours when they come here. No. Americans do it, too. Speeding laws, for example. Or, if you are use to a "tribal law" system, and not a "government law" system, you cannot comprehend our law system, nor that of a developed law system in any country, including Europe. If that 'tribal law' system is based on religion, well, they think any other foreign country is all infidels. Until they actually get to personally know one of us. I hope you and all the other soldiers in these war times are safe, and do not lose your morals and values in assisting innocent people. Not all are evil.

  • Posted By: bohdansz @ 11/17/2007 4:11:55 PM

    My heart goes to all the sufferers of the world. The world today, despite so many advances, is fool of evil more than ever before. The poor are poorer than ever. The peace is more distant than ever. The reason is human greed and absence of human solidarity. We are far away from the day, when Lazarus and bill Gates can sit at one table, as equals!

    • Posted By: beannemarie @ 11/17/2007 7:18:15 PM

      Leo, you must not be talking about Kurdistan because if you knew anything about that area you would know that most Kurds don't even care about any war going on in Baghdad and htey are for the most part going about their daily lives as a free civilization,due to the fact that the US issued a no fly zone for this area. Having been there in March on a Medical Mission and having visited Halabja I can honestly say that the gov. does neglect this area and that the people there are probably fed up with not getting any help.
      The fact that most demonstrators are taking to the streets to demonstrate peacefully and voice their
      opinions is a major change and a sign that Iraq can function as a democratic society. I have been there and I saw building going on, I saw and stayed at 4 star hotels with wonderful srevice. I met and talked with governors,mayors and heads of political parties and the common people and it was nothing like you described. I am just a concerned american citizen. I am a ER RN, I have a son in the inf. over there and another son that is a Marine and they are not uniformed assassins, they are trained soldiers that defend this, your, country and your lifestyle. One of the reasons I went to Iraq myself was so I could see for myself. so please do not believe everything you hear on the news, it is one sided. If you really wasnt to know then go see for your self or talk to those who have been there... JMM

      • Posted By: sullivanguynn @ 11/18/2007 10:51:37 AM

        "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword" and "The pen is mightier than the sword" are both true. The problem is when our leaders have no ability to communicate the principles of our constitution they revert to old roman empire behaviors that will eventually destroy them and our land.

  • Posted By: Extremist Moderate @ 11/17/2007 9:41:14 PM

    I can't speak as to the veracity of the rest of your comment beannemarie, but you are absolutely incorrect in stating that your sons are defending my freedom. My freedom faced no threat from Iraq, and I cannot seriously believe you feared Saddam Hussein had the intent, let alone the capability of actually making war on us over here. That's insane. Your sons are implementing, quite patriotically I'm sure, the economically driven foreign policy goals of our current administration. Nothing more.

    If they truly wish to challenge the greatest of the current threats to our liberty, its here in the U.S. they should be, asking how our government can justify withholding travel safety studies (funded by taxpayers) just because the corporate airlines might not like it. Perhaps your sons could track down some of the billions of public dollars this administration, and the corporations they subcontract everything out to, can't seem to account for....and clearly could care less about "losing."

    For the first time in our history, the government can now imprison its citizens without telling us why, and legal counsel is a priviledge instead of a right. Iraq never came close to posing this level of threat to our freedom, our primary danger is already here at the homefront. So bring your sons back home, where they can actually serve this nation and its citizens instead of the rich politicians in D.C. and their corrupting corporate masters.

  • Posted By: beannemarie @ 11/17/2007 7:31:46 PM

    Leo,
    The area that is being spoken of in this artical is in Kurdistan that is northeren Iraq. Most Kurds do not even follow what is going on in Baghdad. Most don't even care. The Kurds, you see, are living afor the most part in a free and democratic society, due to the no fly zone that the first Bush ordered. This prevented Saadam from killing and tourturing any more Kurds. It is estimated that he and his regime murdered up to a million Kurds. The fact that most demonstraters are peaceful and are allowed to peacefully demonstrate is a major move to a democratic society. You see, I went to Kurdistan myself in March 2007. I met with Governors, Parliment, Mayors and ordinary people and I did not see any of what you are describing. In fact what I saw was a new nation being built. I saw people lots of people out at the market. I stayed in 4 star hotels with excellent service and good food. What on earth was I doing there you might ask. I went on a Medical Mission, I am a ER RN and a mother of an Infantry soldier that is there now, plus another son that is a Marine. And by the way they are not ubiformed assassins they are trained soldiers that defend your freedoms ( if you are American and even if you are not) and your way of life. So although you may think you know what your talking about, unless you have been there yourself ( and I am talking about Kurdistan) then please do not believe everything you read or see on the one sided news.

    • Posted By: leodelaney @ 11/17/2007 8:42:04 PM

      I am a wounded Korean Veteran who fought in a war that truly defended our freedoms because we had a real enemy, The Soviet Union at that time. It bears no comparison to the farcical Iraq War which is without reason and which far from defending my freeedom makes me less secure and my nation more troubled. Also I was not talking about conditions in Kurdistan, which according to you rivel those in the Garden of Eden. I was talking about the political and ethnic unrest which has existed between the Arabs and the Kurdish in that area for millenia, and about the revival of the Kurdish Turkish animosities which is now taking place. And I believe you reinforce my point when you say that the Kurdish Paradise could not have existed save for the United States no-fly zone that kept Arab-Kurd fighting in place, something that will be without effect on the Kurdish-Turkish fight. You underscore the point that only the US presence keeps even the slightest bit of order in the area and that once the US leaves everything will fall apart. And that departure can be next week or 20 years from now, the result will be the same because what little success there will be will come only at the expense of imposed will by a nation that is willing to sacrifice its youth and its treasury for the meaningless task of stopping the inevitable in that region.

      As for my comment about "uniformed assassins" I firmly believe that those who invade anothers land based upon lies and untruths, kill its people, topple its government, destroy its cities solely because a psychotic and malevolent leader wants it that way are indeed " uniformed assassins. We are not liberators we are conquerers and the troops of a conquering invader, who are there without reason or need are indeed assassins. Actually Mark Twain said it best (and that's his phrase) a hundred and fifty years ago.

      "Man is the only Patriot. He sets himself apart in his own country, under his own flag, and sneers at the other nations, and keeps multitudinous uniformed assassins on hand at heavy expense to grab slices of other people's countries, and keep them from grabbing slices of his. And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"- with his mouth."
      - "The Lowest Animal

  • Posted By: dealer4519 @ 11/17/2007 7:17:39 PM

    I am afraid that I agree.....George W. Bush brought peace, happiness and dignity to Iraq with his use of uniformed assassins to solve all the problems. The sad fact is that those uniformed assissins are US soldiers and they THINK they are fighting for their country. How can we tell them this is not their fight to win without reliving the nighmare of the Vietnam Vets coming home?

  • Posted By: leodelaney @ 11/17/2007 5:25:29 PM

    Considering that this has been going on in the area for 4000 years it is not a suprise that it continues even after George W. Bush brought peace, happiness and dignity to Iraq with his use of uniformed assassins to solve all the problems. And then we blame the people of Iraq and the government we set up because the violence continues and the government is unable or unwilling to contain it. The government we set up over the Shiits, Sunnis and Kurds has no interest whatsoever in seeing the violonce end, and to the contray, exist solely because of the violence. They are little more than a puppet of the United States occupation and if the violence ends those occupiers might leave, assuming they get a new leader with greater intelligence than the bag of anvils they are presently led by. Anybody with a knowledge of the situation and of History knows that puppet governments fall immediately upon the defeat or departure of the invaders and then there is horrible retribution taken upon those who collaborated. So the last thing the al Malaki government wants to see is the end of the violence with the resultant US departure and they will do everything they can to see that never comes. The United States has two choices in the disaster Bush and the Republican Party has presented to it. One, get out and let the government fall, the current leaders punished, the existing civil war flare up greater and the end result be the Islamic Republic that was inevitable from the day Bush gave the order to invade. Two, stay in there with tens of thousands of troops, get thousands more young Americans killed, spend more trillions, watch while the violence continues around them, then in a decade or so, leave and let Iraq become the Islamic Republic that was inevitable from the day Bush gave the order to invade. Some choice hey? Just shows what you get when ignorance, malevolence, incompetence, stupidity and self indulgence are the guiding principals of your actions.

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