Utah’s Cross Controversy

It didnt show it but my comment below is in response to Perla @ 11?17?2007 @ 11:27 pm.

Tell me, when you drive down any road and see a white cross what do you think of?? -- ----Is it--man those lunatic christians are out on the loose again trying to make us believe and trying to force christianity on us, or do you think ---- Oh somebody must of died there or someone is being remembered there. and feel a little sense of sadness? Atheists please find something better to do with your time and effort!!!!!

If the State of Utah said, "If you want to commerate the death of someone on the side of the highway, the only acceptable symbol is a cross." This would, in my opinion, be a violation of the first amendment.

Posted By: hitesman143 @ 11/17/2007 8:01:48 PM Comment: "God needs to be put back in public places, When He was taken out of the schools, this country started going down hill. I am happy these crosses are put up and I pray that they are left where there at."

This proves the point I was making earlier. If Christian thugs get away with these 12 foot high crosses on public property, next they will demanding all school children must pray to the Christian God. It's obvious Christians are bullies who are constantly trying to force their religion, and their religion only, into our government and into our schools, every chance they get. This is why they must be fought in court every single time they try to break the law. These Christian thugs are traitors to our country and they must never be allowed to get away with anything.

JoeRandom said "While I am usually strongly opposed to the government making any show of religion or religious symbols, the article did say that it was a private organization that was paying for an erecting the markers, albeit on public land. This is a difficult choice. If the program specifically offered the families of the deceased troopers their choice of symbol, religious or secular, that would go along way towards solving this problem for me."

No, that doesn't work. There should be absolutely no compromise here. The First Amendment is sacred and there can be no violation of it. There must be no religious symbols on any government property and there can be no exceptions. Let the Christians get away with these 12 foot crosses, and they will try to get away with something else. Christians have no respect for our constitution so nobody should respect Christians. They must be kept under control or else this country will slowly become a theocracy. There must be absolutely no compromising with thugs, including Christian thugs who try to stick their religion into everyone's else face.

Look at jdave1430a's comments. He denies our wall of separation and that is typical of Christian thugs. These people who deny our First Amendment can't be compromised with. They must be kept under control. They are constantly trying to break the law, so patriotic Americans who respect our Bill of Rights must fight them in court every single time they try to get away with something.

The issue is not about atheists wanting to control other people. The issue is that if the government is using religious symbols, then it is violating the anti-establishment clause of the 1st Amendment. I do not want the government telling me what is the "correct" religion or the "correct" way to pray or the "correct" way to worship. Religion, its practice, and its expression must be left soley in the hands of individual people. For any government (federal, state. local) to use the symbols of a particular religion in any way violates everyone' right to freely practive the religion they choose for themselves.

While I am usually strongly opposed to the government making any show of religion or religious symbols, the article did say that it was a private organization that was paying for an erecting the markers, albeit on public land. This is a difficult choice. If the program specifically offered the familes of the deceased troopers their choice of symbol, religious or secular, that would go along way towards solving this problem for me. But still, I would have to ask, what difference does the trooper's religion make in the honoring of the trooper for his duty and sacrifice?

"But this is a little bit picky, even for them." No, it's not a little picky. There can be no violation of the First Amendment. No government in America can be endorsing any religion. Christians are out of control in this country. Every time they get away with something they try to do something else to violate our laws. The only solution is to not let them get away with anything. The crosses have to go and I'm sure they will go. Christians always lose in court because they are always wrong. It makes me mad taxpayer money is going to be wasted trying to defend these illegal crosses. If somebody wants to make a fool out of himself and put up a cross on his own property, he can do that. But public property is for everyone, and the government can't favor any religion. Anyone who says a cross has nothing to do with religion is a liar. The Christians who want these crosses are bullies who think they can do anything they want because they are the majority. This country doesn't work that way. The law must be obeyed by everyone. There's plenty of alternatives to a cross, which proves Christians are trying to get away with something here.

It is hard to understand why these atheists feel so offended when people express ideas other than theirs, yet they have no problems trying to force their ideas on all others.

The cross has long been used as a memorial marker for places of death or a grave marker even if the deceased was a christian or not. Even the Nazi's used crosses to mark their graves in the battlefield, and christians wern't too far below the Jews on the Solution list. As a christian my self, I must ask why any religious symbol offends the extreme atheist? Don't give me the old "separation of church and state" grind, I believe there is more to it or they wouldn't make such a big deal of it. I ask those who are offended to examine them selves inside as to why. The constitution grants freedom of religion (or none at all), not freedom FROM religion. If it bothers you so much then the advice I have for you is the same advice I got from a member of the gay community; "if you don't like it then don't look at it". As a christian I don't agree with their lifestyle but I won't deliberately go out of my way to give them greif, it's their choice and I won't denigrate them for it. Besides, atheists should practice what they "preach"; they don't like God to tell them what to do, and I don't like the atheist to tell me what I can and cannot do!

The cross has long been used as a memorial marker for places of death or a grave marker even if the deceased was a christian or not. Even the Nazi's used crosses to mark their graves in the battlefield, and christians wern't too far below the Jews on the Solution list. As a christian my self, I must ask why any religious symbol offends the extreme atheist? Don't give me the old "separation of church and state" grind, I believe there is more to it or they wouldn't make such a big deal of it. I ask those who are offended to examine them selves inside as to why. The constitution grants freedom of religion (or none at all), not freedom FROM religion. If it bothers you so much then the advice I have for you is the same advice I got from a member of the gay community; "if you don't like it then don't look at it". As a christian I don't agree with their lifestyle but I won't deliberately go out of my way to give them greif, it's their choice and I won't denigrate them for it. Besides, atheists should practice what they "preach"; they don't like God to tell them what to do, and I don't like the atheist to tell me what I can and cannot do!

It is so eary for Christians, no matter what demonination, to say that using a cross to mark the location of a fallen trooper is fine. You are deluding yourself. This marker is clearly and precisly a religious statement no matter what you want to call it. For the state to allow this on state land is insulting to say the least. Again the so called "open minded" Christian community is being closed minded. If you want to mark these locations, put up a simple marker indicating who the trooper was and how the trooper died. Please keep your religius beliefs and symbols in your own house or church and stop trying to foist them on everyone else Your lack of compasion for others is an insult to the fallen troopers families.