President of the Debate Team

Why Clinton's skills might actually hurt her campaign.

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  • Posted By: pdmack @ 11/23/2007 11:57:49 PM

    This is spot on. Speaking as an Iowan, we see the candidates enough in person that we just measure sound bites against what they have already told us. Hillary comes across as too polarizing and duplicitous. Obama comes across as the only candidate telling the truth when you take the time to listen.

    • Posted By: Steven Daytona Beach @ 11/24/2007 5:31:08 PM

      I hear this comment time and again. Please tell me why Hillary is polarizing? Exactly what issue or issues is she "polarizing " on? Is it healthcare? Is it women's issues? Is it her foriegn policies? Is it her domestic agenda? @What exactly do you mean by "too polarizing"? Have you met Hillary Clinton? Have you gone to one of her speeches? Which one of these speeches makes her "too polarizin"? nd what exactly did she say that makes you feel she is "too polarizing"? Is this a gut feeling? Or are you just repeating the media hype? I think if you really understood where she stands on the issuesand compared them to Obama's stances, you would find that Hillary is the one more towards the center and Obama is the one to the far left. With this being the fact, how do you think that someone so far to the left is going to reach out and bring those so far to the right closer to his views? The fact is, he is not going to be able to do it, and that is exactly what the media wants. Without conflict what would they have to report on and how would they sell newspapers?

      • Posted By: pdmack @ 11/25/2007 1:44:31 PM

        Steven,

        Thanks for your considered thoughts. I will do my best to address your valid questions.

        I have a few theories as to why and how she is polarizing, but I think that question is secondary to the fact that it is true. The best evidence for this is the polls that show how many people actively dislike her. It is also my personal experience that most people around me have strong feelings about her, positive or negative. They find her to be a symbol of the culture war. They listen to her openly anti-Republican rhetoric and feel compelled to take sides.

        You ask a bit about my feelings, and I am not sure that is really the point either; I will answer, though. She comes across as a political opportunist more than any of the other candidates. She defends taking money from Washington lobbyists but claims they do not hold any sway. She will not push for the release of written records from her time as first lady, even though one would think it would support her experience attack. She is applauded for her great political skills yet, as you point out, has a relatively moderate record. To me, it is as if she has to compromise a lot to overcome how negatively people feel about her. Frankly, it is quite a puzzle to me why Democrats would pick the most polarizing and least liberal option. She seems more eager to fight Republicans than to govern, and I base that on her own words. (You might have noticed a lot of this in the speeches at the JJ).

        You are correct that Obama is more liberal. This is judgment is based on his voting record, which is very consistent. Amazing that he can be more liberal and appeal to more Independents and Republicans (interesting Time magazine story this month about how his approach transcends traditional party lines, there is also evidence for this in the latest ABC poll).

        Assertions that this is all media conspiracy are not very persuasive. We all have the idea that our candidate is not getting a fair shake, and I think we are all often right. This actually points out a contradiction in your position. The places where candidates are the most well known are increasingly rejecting Clinton (Iowa polls have Obama ahead and in NH polls she has dropped dramatically). More likely from my seat, the media has conspired against you.

        Best,
        Paul

        • Posted By: Steven Daytona Beach @ 11/26/2007 10:41:49 PM

          These same polls said the same exact thing when she ran for the senate, and they were proven wrong. I have my own theory about this: people say they do not like her or she is too polarizing, because they have never met her or taken the time to find out exactly how much she has accomplished in her public service career. These people have an intense dislike for her based on nothing more than biased media reporting. Nothing more than propaganda based on a hatred by the media and republicans for her husband. Many republican senators had this same dislike for her as she was entering the senate, but soon found her a very effective and likeable senator, willing to compromise to accomplish things. If this is opportunism, then I am all for it since it gets things done. As for taking money from washington lobbyists, I defy you to show one piece of legislation that she has authore or co-sponsored ( and yes, there are nearly 100 pieces of them) where she voted for something that would favor a corporation over working class people. Further, how much different is it that Obama takes money from state lobbyists - whom he HAS pushed legislation for - than Hillary taking money from Washington lobbyists? You also mention her papers- that are in control of the National Archives- yet you fail to mention all of Obama's missing papers from his years as a state legislator. (see his Meet The Press interview for confirmation of these last 2 points) To help you understand your dilemna about why democrats would chose a moderate over a left-winger, most people in this country, be they democrats, independants or republicans are very much the middle of the road on issues. Only the most radical elements, unable to compromise to get things done are far left or far right. You only need to look to the current administration to see how much gets accomplished when you feel so strongly about your position that you are unable to compromise. I'd call compromise an asset that benefits the people of this country as opposed to your characterization of it as opportunism. You mention polls, but you fail to mention that they were taken right after 2 weeks of intense media hype about her Philly debate performance. I think you will find the next polls out will have her back on top. I really don't think the media is conspiring against me in anyway, as you put it. But you aren't being very honest if you say that the media is not scrutinizing her and parsing her statements more than any other candidate. Finally, I don't know how aware you are of politics and the things that get said in a campaign. But if politicians were to hold what someone said in a campaign speech against the person that said it after the election, we would never get anything done in Washington. You need only to do some reading on what republican senators had to say about Hil;lary after her first couple of years in the senate.

    • Posted By: linkunlovr @ 11/25/2007 6:45:28 PM

      Even tho Hillary Obvama and Edwards get alol the time and focus in the debates there is no doubt in my mind nbthat the only one who really won was Dennis Kucinich. There isn't a nickels worth of difference between Hillary Obama or Edwards. They all get the big money from corporate mogulos and why do you suppose that is. Becasue they w ant change? Hah!

  • Posted By: luckygamble32 @ 11/25/2007 4:21:36 PM

    im tired of the Bush's. as for the Clintons, if electing Hillary means Bill is first husband, then bring them back.

  • Posted By: msstacey123 @ 11/25/2007 12:07:09 PM

    Is anyone tired of having Bushes and Clintons as presidents?? I think it's time to break this seemingly neverending cycle between these two families and bring in someone new.

  • Posted By: kcormier @ 11/23/2007 12:51:36 PM

    What is wrong with this country? Could someone tell me someone would ever put Hillary in the same evaluation of management skills as Laura Bush!??? Read about Hillary and her history and you will know how very smart she is and why we need her as President! These people that loath the Clintons so much should read a bit about the stupid costly investibation into someone's personal life which a President had no responsibility while in office to put on a witness stand! Wake up America.....the middle class has been sold out by the Bush administration and all of his cronies......read some new books which are out!! Wait until America finds out what has been going on with this administration..when is Ms. Rice being investigated about her behavior??
    kcormier

    • Posted By: combinedsun @ 11/25/2007 12:01:09 AM

      (Hillary Clinton) Hello, Iam Hillary Clinton and the most experienced candidate in the democratic race.
      (Combinedsun) why do you say so?
      Hillary Clinton) Because i was married to Bill Clinton.
      (Combinedsun) why do you think being married to the former president gives you more experience as a candidate?
      (Hillary Clinton) because we went travelled around the world together and i waved at people and i eat in the finest places, you can never imagine.i also worked on the famous health plan for America and supported my husband to sign Nafta into law?
      (Combinedsun) Didnt you just say Nafta was a mistake and didnt your Health plan for America Fail?
      (Hillary Clinton) this is where you are trying to play gottcha! this country is the war because of Georce Bush and i will end it!
      (Combinedsun) that dont answer my question, can you place answer my question?
      (Hillary Clinton) your questions are coming from a Repulican playbook and so i wont answer.
      (Combinedsun) any final words mrs Clinton? seems you have come out and trashed the current leader of Iraqi and called him incompetent, dont you think this will haunt you when you become presdent because you will have to deal with him or the Republicans you have trased without mentionin to your audience that without the Rpublicans support our country will still be in the same place?
      (Hillary Clinton) Normally i dont answer qustions, but i will answer this one, this is an all boy's club trying to come after me Becase iam ahead in the polls!

  • Posted By: Gitano @ 11/23/2007 5:29:16 PM

    Best debater does not mean best president, neither does understanding the klieg lights if one were so desparate as to quote the war criminal in residence. Hillary may be a skillful debater, but that is a quality akin to acting. One may be a great actor, and unable to balance her checkbook or into Scientology. She is a political pro if thats important to you. She has a passing aquaintance with the trappings of power. But there is something really missing and the drivers license question revealed it. She lacks character which is telling the truth when it might cost a vote. So did her husband. She lacks the ability to self-efface except when politically expedient and no amount of smiles and laughter fills the void. She has failed several character tests which roughly translates into what one does when no one else is looking, law firm records, cattle futures, travelgate. She is in a nutshell, another Washington pol when another one is the last thing needed. The place is overrun now with ego-ridden, know-it-all, tireless power seekers and maintainers. The country needs a house-cleaning. Hillary undoubtedly left that chore a long time ago to others, and she wont go back. Of that crowd the best bet for the Republic is Obama. Hes green, but educable. He would say more to the world about America by simply showing up than Hillary would ever by winning debates, ala Tricky vs Khruschev. He would given a chance tell America the truth which is what it needs ala JFK after the Bay of Pigs or confronting the racism of the South even though he didnt want to. Hillary would just parse it all to death with her great debating skills until nobody cared much anymore, like they do now listening to the moron in the White House. Hugo Chavez gave an 8 hour speech on all the channels in Venezuela a while back. It was the only time the TV's were turned off. If the greatest thing you can hope for in the next President is not to commit the country to an asinine war like the rodeo clown did, then that's a bar that needs to be set higher. And oh by the way, how did Hillary do judgment wise on that vote?

    • Posted By: Aware! @ 11/23/2007 9:38:51 PM

      KISS

      • Posted By: combinedsun @ 11/24/2007 11:39:51 PM

        I still dont get it, can you the Clinton supporter tell us why she is the most experienced candidate and what does her experience mean to leading this great country? does experience equal sound judgement? we are in a war right now and it was the experience of Hillary and other democrats that led us to war? secondly in your own thinking..do you think Clinton has a chance to unite this country or divide us further/?have you seen rattling statements she has made against the republicans? well let's say what one thing has she said that has a chance to unite this country? Obama has a real chance to change how things run and so does Edwards but if you far left people elect Clinton, let's watch and see a new Republican come in office

    • Posted By: Steven Daytona Beach @ 11/24/2007 10:31:24 AM

      Another one living in Obama's fantasy land! You attack Hillary for the driver's license issue (as if that is somehow an issue) yet you don't mention Obama's convoluted answer. You attack her for "travelgate" and "cattle futures" yet you fail to mention that when fully and overzealously investigated by a republican congress and a republican prosecuter there was never one charge proven. You also fail to mention Obama's avoiding the isuue of the people he met with and the missing records of his time in the Illinois senate. You claim he will tell the truth given the chance, yet he can't clearly state his position on social security, produce the records of his meetings with a federally indicted real estate broker -the same one he bought his house from in a sweetheart deal -. As a matter of fact, I have yet to hear one coherent, qualified position on a single issue from the man. You also attempt to paint Hillary in a bad light with the same old tired arguement about her vote on Iraq. Yet, again, you fail to mention that in an interview after the Democratic Convention of '04, Obama stated that he didn't know how he would have voted since he wasn't there and wasn't privvy to all the information that was being put forth to congress. Then on Meet The Press, he said "well, I didn't think I should attack the party's nominees"! If there ever was a moment in time that defined Obama and his "truth-telling" it was then on MTP. He admitted to saying something he didn't believe, just to satisfy the party and media. You attack her debating skills and liken them to acting. The way I see it, a person that can debate is one that shows KNOWLEDGE and PREPAREDNESS on all the issues thereby showing that you will be well-studied on these very same issues when it comes time to lead. I question I often pose in these forums, yet have never received an answer to, I will pose once again to you: why is it that you and all the other Obama supporters who latch onto the soundbites of "the politics of hope" and "changing Washington politics" never put forth an arguement as to why your candidate is best suited to take on the job of president, but only attack Hillary with hollow arguements as to why she shouldn't be president? Please get off the slime and fear-and-smear politics of the republican playbook and state your candidate's position on the issues and why you support that position.

  • Posted By: Monkeyshines @ 11/23/2007 9:25:41 PM

    A Hillary nomination will garauntee another republican president.

    • Posted By: combinedsun @ 11/24/2007 11:29:11 PM

      Atleast someone knows..a hillary nomination will guarantee Rudy or Romney because she is such an easy person to crucify using her own words and past.As an idependent i want change and change that should come from the democratic win but if the democrats elect Hillary, they lose my vote, id give it to anyone other than Clinton but gie me Obama or Edawards and we on the same page

  • Posted By: ClaudeM @ 11/24/2007 10:13:23 PM

    People, we cannot place all of our gold on an Iowa caucus vote. I hold no special brief for any of the candidates but believe by the time these people get through perhaps 5 to 10 states, we will have some inkling as to how the public IN GENERAL feels about them as candidates. Keep your powder dry.

  • Posted By: mbrandenburg @ 11/24/2007 8:29:29 PM

    Hillary Clinton merely conveys a canned response to debate questions. She has no emotion whatsoever making you question whether she really believes what she is saying. The issue of her polarization is very accurate on all of the premises of position. Obama has a much better chance to unite this country with his likeability on both ends of the spectrum. This is an overlooked factor by the far right and far left who do not want this unity to exist (so it seems). At the end of the day looking at what's best for country does not include a self-fulfilling Hillary Clinton. Our country has a better chance to grow an adapt into the new world stage that is not orbiting around the US.

  • Posted By: Just Jean @ 11/24/2007 1:58:38 PM

    I think we need to watch Iowa very carefully. It is the one state where the leasding democratic contenders have had pretty much an equal chance to make theircharacter and their positions known. Obama is leading there, more and more as they get to know him. I think it is amovement that is destined to succeed for the good of the land.

    • Posted By: Steven Daytona Beach @ 11/24/2007 5:18:56 PM

      Watching Iowa and judging it to be a trend is so far off base. First, and probably least important, is the fact that Hillary was never expected to do well there. Do you remember the early Hillary-bashing media frenzy when one of her camp[aign aids suggested not to bother with Iowa? Second reason to ignore the Iowa vote, is they get a "do-over". In other words, if their candidate doesn't get at least 15% of the vote in a first round ballot, they get to change their vote to one of the candidates that did get at least 15%. For this reason, it is far from indicative of how the rest of the country is going to vote. And finally, I believe that once the American people wake up and realize the propaganda that the media has been trying to push down our throats, and they begin to seriously look at the candidates and their positions on issues as opposed to who has the best soundbite, you will see that gap between Hillary and Obama, on the national level, widen even more.

  • Posted By: Redbud9 @ 11/23/2007 11:50:02 AM

    There are so many reasons to loath Hiliary Clinton. This article simply adds another reason to dislike her. She is conniving, deceitful, power hungry and entirely phony. Hiliary is ahead in a crowd of mostly unqualified candidates (John Edwards never managed an organization in his life, now he wants to run the COUNTRY! - He spent his first term in the senate running for president.) Calling herself qualified on the basis of being First Lady makes Laura Bush qualified as well I guess. And having served a term in the Senate is helpful, if being qualified is measured in the length of service in the Senate or House, than most everyone else running is more qualifed than she is. Nothing will unite the Republicans more than a Clinton candidacy. I for one am so very very very sick of the Clintons, and their dishonesty. At this point, my campaign call is "anybody but Hiliary".

    • Posted By: mort72 @ 11/23/2007 1:19:06 PM

      This was the same attitude when Hillary ran for the senate from N.Y. The Republician "Hillary can't win machine"was running full tilt with the same lame reasons not to go with her. Guess what??? Yeah!! Thats why they address her as Senator Clinton today and her opponent is called" Oh ,whats his name.

      • Posted By: Steven Daytona Beach @ 11/24/2007 11:16:29 AM

        Kudos mort! Not only did the republican attack machine and the media say she wouldn't win the first time, they went all-out to defeat her the second time. The second time she won almost 70% of the vote and over 30% of the republican vote! Now to me that sounds like not only can she lead and lead effectively, but she can also bring the opposing parties together. Funny, this doesn't sound like "polarizing", "divisive", or "unelectable" to me. Where do these so-called "journalists" come up with this stuff.? What I find most troubling is that you hear so many other people repeating this fabrication. Yet when you ask them to name even just one single issue she is divisive on or polarizing on, that can't come up with an answer. The only area she is divisive on is that alot of republicans hate her...just like in New York....but when they see what a great leader she is, they will change their tune, just as they did in New York

  • Posted By: George ~Bush @ 11/23/2007 1:03:29 PM

    Hillary is a rank amateur who is only onstage because of her powerful husband. There are many more capable women in politics.

    Her one asset is a loud cheering section in the media.. You claim that the Nevada debate was one of the "five best ever" in the front of the article, yet go on to illustrate some of her many blunders in it. Yes, it is a complete amateur mistake for her to complain about mudslinging , and would lose her a lot of points in a "real" debate. Yes, it was boorish of her to claim that she is winning. You left off her stupid statement that the %5 of the country making over $90,000 were only "middle class" which she blundered into simply to be contrary to Obama's statement. That one statement will cost her dearly -- yet you then go on to gush about her great performance!

    If you want to see how outclassed Hillary is, just look at the C-Span video of the Jefferson-Jackson dinner. The headline was that Obama hit it out of the park (in what was truly one of the 10 greatest political speeches in modern history) but the story not covered is how awful and shrill Hillary was. Even Richardson (who is no great speechifier) outclassed her. Her speech was truly cringeworthy, she looked like a bad actresss playing the role on a daytime soap opera.

    • Posted By: Steven Daytona Beach @ 11/24/2007 10:59:40 AM

      Too funny! Actually it was 6% of the country that makes over $95,000. And of that percentage 3% make between $95,000 and $200,000, which are the people Obama wants to raise taxes on. Now granted, to a farmer in Nebraska or a witress in a diner in the backwoods of Mississippi, $95,000 is alot of money and would probably consider themselves rich if they made that much money. But to the people that do make that money, the majority of them live in a metropolis.like New York City, Boston, Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, etc., where $95,000 is barely making ends meet. And if you have a wife and a child or two to support, it is nearly impossible to survive. The $20,000 a year that would make the farmer or waitress "rich" wouldn't even cover the cost of rent in these cities. Not to mention the cost of food, transportation, utilities, and the such. You also mention the J-J Dinner and the speeches, claiming Hillary was "shrill". Well, I watched those speeches and in my opinion Hillary was poised calm and very effective in the points she was trying to make. And to me it sounded more like Obama was angry, I mean did you see the veins popping out of his neck and forehead? Seemed he was the one shouting and trying to force his opinion on the audience. One of the 10 greatest speeches? Can you rewatch that video and tell me exactly where he put forth one policy and how he expects to acheive that policy? I heard a lot of angry fluff and attacks yet not a single substantive issue. Another supporter of "the politics of hope" that can't define why Obama is a better candidate, but just attack, attack, attack.

  • Posted By: mcaoile @ 11/23/2007 11:43:03 PM

    Yeah, right. For the likes of you she will never be a winner. A Hillary win is still a Hillary lost. Obviously her debating skill becomes a Hillary liability.
    On the same driver's question that she was crucified it becomes an ???issue that doesn't lend to a yes or no answer' when it comes to Obama.
    That Obama guy is a sweet talker. He actually reminds me of Jimmy Carter. Long talk on ???Change??? but short if not incompetent on delivery.
    OK, he is against the Iraq war but he was not there in the Iraq vote. So where was Obama in the Iran vote? Initially, he had something more important to do but now admits to a mistake.
    That???s the Obama judgement that no one seems to pick on but can one imagine Hillary missing in action?? A Hillary evasiveness?
    Face it America, of the bunch-the Obamas, the Edwards, the Giulianis, the Romneys et al ,this woman Hillary ??? she is the best man for the job!

    • Posted By: Steven Daytona Beach @ 11/24/2007 9:57:41 AM

      This is the exact reason people are turning off to the MSM and getting their information from the likes of Jon Stewart and the internet as a whole. Headlines that read: "Clinton attacks Obama On Foreign Policy Experience"(-where she did nothing more than challenge his premise that living in a foreign country at the age of 10 gave him experience in foreign policy) and "Obama Strikes Back" ( where he did not answer the charge, but changed the subject to attack her on her Iraq vote). They accuse her of acting like she has already won the nomination, when actually she is out every day, trying to convince voters she is the best candidate. It seems the MSM are the only ones trying to portray her as the "inevitable" choice. They try to claim she is too polarizing or devisive. Yet you never hear them state one issue on which they believe she is polarizing or devisive. As a matter of fact, Hillary is much more to the center on issues than Obama. It seems to me if there is a chance of anyone bringing the country together on issues, it would be the one that has a more moderate view as opposed to one that leans way left. It is funny how it was the top story for 2 weeks when Hillary attempted to explain her position on the driver's license issue (never saying she supported drivers' licenses for illegals, only that she supported what the governor was trying to do) and when Obama gave such a convoluted answer to the same question, he got maybe a couple hours of press time. Again, mcaoile raises another valid point with regards to Obama's ability to deliver a speech filled with promises of changing the way of politics in Washington". Yet he has never delivered a speech on the way he plans to acheive this. For anyone to believe that a person so far to the left on issues is suddenly going to bring the republicans on board with him, is living in a fantasy world. Has anyone ever put Obama under the microscope the way they have Hillary? I believe if they did, they would find that he is the one that is polarizing, offers absolutely no substance in those Utopian soundbites, and doesn't stand a chance against the republicans in the general election. Further, people attack Hillary on the last debate, saying CNN is the "Clinton News Network" and they gave her softball questions. What puzzles me is why it was okay for Tim Russert and Brian Williams to launch an all-out attack on her in Philly and set up Obama and Edwards to join in on the "pile-on". So now they are attacking her on her debating skills. As far as I'm concerned the debates are a great way to judge the candidates. They show how dignified Hillary has been, how knowledgable she is on all the topics, and how well prepared she is. MSM seems to have picked their favorite candidate, and it shows through with everything they say (or don't say, as is the case with why they feel Obama is their preferred choice).

  • Posted By: -PC- @ 11/24/2007 4:14:36 AM

    I fail to see where she won the debates as well.

  • Posted By: colejm @ 11/24/2007 12:50:28 AM

    I watched all the debates, and I have to disagree . I think Hillary has been really bad,and very polarizing in all the debates. I used to like Bill and Hillary, but when you see the two of them up against someone who is truly honorable ,there is no contest. Barack Obama is very genuine , honest ,and earnest. Truly the best person for the job. Obama 08

  • Posted By: lilyhammer @ 11/23/2007 10:45:54 PM

    Despite crediting Senator Clinton with winning the last debate, you imply that Senator Obama is responsible for her shrinking lead in New Hampshire, because of voters' supposed preference for his professorial approach -- a creative characterization of his bungled immigration response. You must be referring to a recent CNN/WMUR poll that has Senator Clinton's lead over Senator Obama going from 43-20 to 36-22. You will notice, however, that Senator Obama's total only went up 2 points -- far less than the margin of error. So, there is no evidence that Senator Obama is making any headway in New Hampshire, much less that he is taking votes from Senator Clinton. This sort of slanted analysis reveals the same sort of bias you showed on the Diane Rehm Show when, you put forth the unfounded and subsequently refuted argument that Democratic voters would prefer a candidate who promises unconditionally to meet with a figurehead like Iran's Ahmadinejead, rather than one pursuing more effective and robust diplomacy. Two possibilities: either you have a dog in this fight or you are trying to fabricate a horse race where this is none.

  • Posted By: lilyhammer @ 11/23/2007 10:45:13 PM

    Despite crediting Senator Clinton with winning the last debate, you imply that Senator Obama is responsible for her shrinking lead in New Hampshire, because of voters' supposed preference for his professorial approach -- a creative characterization of his bungled immigration response. You must be referring to a recent CNN/WMUR poll that has Senator Clinton's lead over Senator Obama going from 43-20 to 36-22. You will notice, however, that Senator Obama's total only went up 2 points -- far less than the margin of error. So, there is no evidence that Senator Obama is making any headway in New Hampshire, much less that he is taking votes from Senator Clinton. This sort of slanted analysis reveals the same sort of bias you showed on the Diane Rehm Show when, you put forth the unfounded and subsequently refuted argument that Democratic voters would prefer a candidate who promises unconditionally to meet with a figurehead like Iran's Ahmadinejead, rather than one pursuing more effective and robust diplomacy. Two possibilities: either you have a dog in this fight or you are trying to fabricate a horse race where this is none.

  • Posted By: Monkeyshines @ 11/23/2007 9:25:38 PM

    A Hillary nomination will garauntee another republican president.

  • Posted By: Aware! @ 11/23/2007 9:16:48 PM

    Messiah Obama may arouse some sentiment, but he will never be president. He won't take the heat a woman candidate will because people, including the media, are more afraid to appear raciest than sexist. Obama offers nothing new - just politics plus served with a velvet dagger. Wake up!

  • Posted By: Monkeyshines @ 11/23/2007 9:12:03 PM

    Please nominate Hillary thus ensuring another republican president. Dotshock, she is not a strong woman. A strong person has thier own principals as a base from which they form thier own opinions and make important decisions. Public opinion polls dictate her opinions and decisions, explaining her vote for the war and her actions regarding the drivers licesne issue. As far as the topic that started this conversation I don't see her as "winning" these debates. Does being loudest or most annoying constute winning? I don't see her as having made a point describing who she is and why she is the most qualified person for the job I just hear her and the party telling me that she is. I beleive the party has already made the choice, debates and elections are just formalities to pacify you silly, foolish, little people.

  • Posted By: Aware! @ 11/23/2007 9:06:23 PM

    Messiah Obama may arouse some sentiment , but he will never make president. He won't take the heat of a female candidate because people are more afraid of appearing raciest than sexist! However, he really has nothing new to offer - just politics plus with a velvet dagger!

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