IRAQ

There’s No Place Like … Iraq?

Actually, yes. Refugees are returning—but it's tough to resettle them without worsening sectarian divisions.

By Larry Kaplow, Rod Nordland and Silvia Spring | NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Dec 3, 2007

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  • Posted By: motown67 @ 12/01/2007 6:23:36 PM

    The latest report by the Iraqi Red Crescent says that they estimate between 25,000-28,000 Iraqis have returned to Iraq from Baghdad since September. The Iraqi government claimed over 40,000 returned in just October. A UN survey from November of 110 families returning, said that 46% came back because they were out of money, 25% said they were coming back because of tighter visa rules by Syria, 14% said because of improved security. The UN also said that 28,000 Iraqis were newly displaced in October alone.

  • Posted By: faminchin @ 11/26/2007 12:40:08 AM

    I don't understand what Americans expect out of Iraqi's?

    America is fighting two wars in two different countries, and have lost 3,800 troops doing so. I hear people say that's unacceptable? While I hate to see any living human being lose their life, do you not realize that during the same 5 year period while America has been fighting these two wars, that 2,500 law enforcement officers have been killed right here on the streets of the United States! Is there a war taking place in America? Is 2,500 law enforcement officers being killed on the streets in your country acceptable, while 3,800 troops fighting two different wars is not?

    You say Iraq is out of control.....I say the United States is out of control! So before you are so fast to critize Iraqi's, you should look in the mirror at the things that are happening in your own country! It seems to me that you are holding Iraqi's to a much higher standard than your willing to accept for yourselves!

    • Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 12/01/2007 2:23:30 PM

      In response to Faminchin - I support the cause in Iraq and believe we should keep troops there until the job is done. But I have to correct your statistics. You said 2,500 law enforcement officials have been killed in America over the past 5 year period. That statistic is WAYYY off. There have been 784 deaths among law enforcement officials in America over the past 5 years. This includes gunshots, traffic fatalities, and "other causes" (heart disease, cancer, etc.). These deaths have occurred while policing a populace of 290,000.000. Compare that to the 3800+ casualties for our soldiers in Iraq alone (population 27,499,638 ) and there is a huge difference. Don't minimize our soldiers' sacrifice in that country.

    • Posted By: Sean Denton @ 11/26/2007 4:04:29 AM

      "America is fighting two wars in two different countries, and have lost 3,800 troops doing so. I hear people say that's unacceptable?"

      Come on, if you're going to say that American soldiers are dying in two *separate wars* then you may as well as get the toll right. That's 3876 Americans killed in Iraq and 469 killed in Afghanistan, making a total of 4345 killed in the "war on terror".

  • Posted By: jameskbachman @ 11/30/2007 12:58:21 PM

    Yes, returnees will be relatively safe if they return to neighborhoods that are predominantly of their own sect. Separation of the sects will be necessary until some kind of reconciliation takes place. De facto division of the country is taking place, whether anyone wants to recognize it, or likes it, or not.

  • Posted By: robertb689 @ 11/30/2007 1:25:05 AM

    Won the sarcasm contest. Liberals always do, mocking their heritage and their soldiers all the way to the guillotine, gulag, whatever.

  • Posted By: isaidit @ 11/28/2007 4:07:14 PM

    We have won in Iraq, and the pages of history will place our commander-in-chief, George Bush, right where he belongs, along side Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar, because just like them, his bold vision has changed the world for the better. He has liberated the Barbarain lands of Mesopotamia, and the returning Iraqi refugees are merely the latest evidence of that. The Iraqis have also voted when we told them to, chosen from candidates that we have preselcted, and were happy to do it. And in time, just like the their Kurdish countrymen, they will also come to embrace Israel and zionism too. The dems and the media need to acknowledge what ordinary Iraqiis have: that George Bush and the neocon ultrapatriots have delivered them from the darkness of a backward culture and wrong way of thinking into the light of the glorious culture of the west and the American way of life. Face it, all you democrats and mainstream media people, the surge has done what our great leader said it would: it has bought the Iraqis, the vast majority of whom are docile and peace loving, enough time to run the small handfull of outside agitators/ bad apples out of town. And now that they've done that, the attacks have ceased and refugees are coming home. We won, and its only the beginning, because the neocons got it exactly right- everybody wishes their country was exactly like America, and would welcome our intervention, collateral damage and all.

  • Posted By: motown67 @ 11/27/2007 10:46:10 PM

    According to the New York Times "Pressure for results: The Politics of Tallying the Number of Iraqis Who Return Home," from 11/26/07, the Iraqi government claim of 40,000+ Iraqis returning to Iraq was fabricated. According to the article the government is counting every person crossing the border as a "returning refugee."

    "But in interviews, officials from the ministry acknowledged that the count coveredd all iraqis crossing the border, not just returnees. 'We didn't ask them if they were displaced and neither did the Interior Ministry," said Sattar Nowruz, a spokesman for the Ministry of Displacement and Migraiton."

  • Posted By: mohalhuss @ 11/26/2007 6:37:42 PM

    You all guys discuss the number of american casualties only without considering the number of other lives lost in this war.
    the optimistic estimation of lost lives in Iraq gives a number around 200,000 casualties.
    this number means an increasing hate and violent actions to be taken against american and other troops existing their in those countries.
    additionally, all related countries foresee this new experience with skepticizm and doubt about how successful the changes that took place in the name of democracy.

  • Posted By: t9900 @ 11/26/2007 9:39:00 AM

    faminchin, I agree with you about having to stay in Iraq until the Iraqis have a working stable democracy but I disagree with you about the US as being out of countrol. Please remember the US is the 4th(?) largest country in land and the 3rd largest in population. Of course we have high crime and of course 2,500 officers died (as you say) in the past 5 years but we also have an extremly large population, much larger than smaller nations that have less crime than we have. The US is in no way out of control. Those dark streats you talk about make up about .001% of the country.
    And where do you get your facts that Americans critize Iraqi's? The media? The only ones we critize are the ones causing violence and preventing democracy. We also critize Americans that cause violence here. Iraq is very out of control, 10 times more out of control than the US.

  • Posted By: cingi @ 11/26/2007 8:20:55 AM

    THIS IS AN URGENT ACTION ALERT:


    S 1959 "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007" must be stopped at all costs.

    Pick up your phone today and contact your US Senator's office to instruct them to vote "NO" on S.1959.

    Full PDF text of the bill:
    http://tinyurl.com/3a3y2z

    If this bill is passed, and becomes law, your words and actions could be considered terrorism. S 1959 EVISCERATES FREE SPEECH, and empowers the govt. to declare ANYTHING they deem an "extremist belief system", instantly make you a terrorist, resulting in stripping of US citizenship, torture, and/or execution, with no habeas corpus rights, no ability to challenge even in the US Supreme Court.

    Contact your Senator and let them know they will be looking for another job if they vote yes on this bill, which is now introduced into the Senate as S.1959 THIS BILL **MUST NOT** BECOME LAW, PERIOD.

    If this becomes law, your words could be considered "promoting an extremist belief system", and all they have to say is that you are using PLANNED OR THREATENED *FORCE* (DOES NOT HAVE TO BE VIOLENCE) --FORCE by exposing CORRUPTION, CRIMINALITY against "THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF THE UNITED STATES, *****OR ANY SEGMENT THEREOF" READ THE BILL MANY TIMES AND VERY CAREFULLY--YOU ARE THE TERRORIST (WHICH MEANS THEY CAN STRIP YOUR CITIZENSHIP, AND HAVE YOU TORTURED AND EXECUTED).

    Senate is back in session today, do not hesitate, call, fax, email your Senator ASAP.

  • Posted By: Athiest @ 11/26/2007 8:17:52 AM

    I'm all for world peace but come on people.Wake up and smell what has been cookin.It ain't chicken. If all the democrat b-s and republican b-s would hurry and hit the floor then we could get to the business at hand .Pay us Iraq! We have suffered to gain your freedoms and now we want ours.

  • Posted By: faminchin @ 11/26/2007 7:29:14 AM

    I know not what web site you get your information from, but I got mine here:

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2006/table72.html

  • Posted By: Sean Denton @ 11/26/2007 4:10:38 AM

    Jeez....people like famichin and nyyankee4 need to take a long hard look at the world and research the definition of "realpolitick" and see how the real world works. It's not simply "right versus wrong" and most wars are *not* fought for mere humanitarian reasons. Get your heads out of the sand.

  • Posted By: Sean Denton @ 11/26/2007 4:09:51 AM

    Jeez....people like famichin and nyyankee4 need to take a long hard look at the world and research the definition of "realpolitick" and see how the real world works. It's not simply "right versus wrong" and most wars are *not* fought for mere humanitarian reasons. Get your heads out of the sand.

  • Posted By: J.P.S. @ 11/25/2007 11:13:42 PM

    I am sorry but, I have to make one more comment before I explode. All of the people that think that going to war in Iraq is going to save the world (GET REAL) Do you realize that this country that we just willy-nilly decided to take control of was run by a tyrant for a reason. Look at what you have now. Do you think Saddam was like he was because of Iraq or do you think Iraq is like it is because of Saddam? He is gone and this country is still out of control. He had control only because of fear. I don't think he was a good person by any means but, we would have to do the same thing that he did in order to have control. I hope that someday we will have a population that the majority can read and write (English) and can reason. You don't have to have a college education to know what's right. Proof Positive! Most of your elected officials have a college degree, look what they are doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!J.P.S.

    • Posted By: nyyankee4 @ 11/26/2007 12:15:02 AM

      Yeah, we should all be like JPS and stick our head in the ground and pretend people don`t hate us and people wont hijack aircraft and won`t kill american civilians or gas japanese people in a subway. And we can pretend that this wasn`t planned while Clinton was in office while distracted by his stupid sex acts and subsequent perjury when he should have taken these animals out. But no, it was left to GW to deal with and act he did. The Taliban had it coming and so did Saddam. People like JPS would be the first to complain that Bush did nothing to take out Saddam when we had the chance if he had aquired WMD or invaded his third country! It took 10 years to of war to get the US truely independent and functioning, so its no surprise its been nearly 5 years and finally turning the corner in Iraq. Anytime a dictator is removed its a good thing for the world in the long run. The only peoples rights being constrained are those engaged in our destruction and I dont recall any "constitutional rights" being extended to enemy combatants or terrorists. I feel bad for
      people like JPS, they are like Sheep being led to the slaughter.

      • Posted By: Sean Denton @ 11/26/2007 4:06:03 AM

        People like yourself who think the Iraq invasion was rightly justified by the Bush administration are the sheep. Get over yourself.

  • Posted By: faminchin @ 11/25/2007 8:40:50 PM

    "It amazes me how we can not accept or see the facts. We went into a country that had relatively decent structure and we turned it into a BIG MESS."

    You should try telling the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's that Saddam murdered how much better of they were before...geezzzz

    What amazes me is that there seems to be nothing but good news coming out of Iraq, and our media manages to turn the good news into a political hit piece! Do Americans hate Bush so much that they want to see a nation turned over to radical Islamic terrorist by pulling out?

    I have people there, things are so much better than they ever have been before. God Bless America and thank you for saving my people and allowing Iraq to experience freedom for the first time in two thousand years! God Bless America!

    • Posted By: Sean Denton @ 11/26/2007 4:00:04 AM

      Famichin, you apparently assume the US invaded Iraq for the betterment of the Iraqi people. When has the US ever committed military forces solely for the betterment of another country? Not too many times; and especially not in the case of Iraq. If President Bush decided to invade Iraq on the premise of "freeing the Iraqi people" as he often likes to claim, then why isn't half of Africa under US occupation right now? It's this kind of simplistic "right versus wrong" thinking that unnerves me.

  • Posted By: Sean Denton @ 11/26/2007 3:51:59 AM

    Wow, people are naive about how international politics work....

  • Posted By: philly6000 @ 11/26/2007 3:47:37 AM

    faminchin said that 2500 law enforcement officers were killed in the last 5 years. That number is way way way off the mark:
    http://www.nleomf.org/TheMemorial/Facts/killedlod.htm

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