Attempted Theft

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: miran @ 12/08/2007 12:34:23 PM

    Please accept that there is more democratic practice than in USA. Don't always think US is more democratic. Demcracy here is collapsing.people feel more scared than anywhere in the world. Please admire Chaves because he is more democrtic than Bush. He gives power to the people to choose tha reform. Bush didn't give chance to Saddam.
    _Miran, NY

    • Posted By: jperk80 @ 12/08/2007 12:49:22 PM

      More denial of facts. For all of your doomsday warnings, where is one piece of evidence of our crumbling democracy? Do we not have a scheduled election coming up in less than a year? Have we heard of anything delaying or halting these elections? Has Bush taken our right to vote away? By the way, we aren't a pure democracy. We are a democratic republic. We elect representatives to make decisions for us, ie: the Iraq war. So to say bush didn't give us a chance to vote is just ignorant of our constitution.

      • Posted By: GreatDane @ 12/08/2007 11:32:41 PM

        Uh.....people here are more scared than anywhere? What do you base that statement on? I'm not scared. I'm 63 years old. Healthy. Enjoying life. Read approximately 10-15 books a month on subjects including history, geology, spiritual life, politics, the rise and fall of the Soviet Union, the discovery and development of radar. How many books have you read this year? Upon what are basing your own fear? Sheesh. If you would start living life as it is available in this great country instead of buying into the message of the fear mongers, you'd be a lot happier. Try it. Ann

  • Posted By: tyler214 @ 12/08/2007 6:08:53 PM

    RWaters - The point is not that the US is better or worse than other countries, but that Americans seem to consider themselves special, above the rules of law and custom. Take any tactic - say supporting a dissident group in another country. The US does that in Venezuela, against Chavez, so it is a good thing to do. But if Chavez does it in another country against US interests, then it is a bad thing to do. How about arming a terrorist group fighting a foreign occupation of their country. US in Afghanistan against the Soviets - good. Iran in iraq against the US -bad.

    Chavez may not be the most democratic leader in the world, but the offense which enrages the US government and media is his refusal to follow US dictates and sell his country's oil on terms more favorable to the US than to Venezuela.

  • Posted By: carolrhill @ 12/08/2007 5:44:07 PM

    Am I surprised? Not at all.
    Bush did it hear but he got away with it of which is so sad. Now look what mess we are in.

  • Posted By: RWaters @ 12/08/2007 4:27:57 PM

    I can't help but notice that most of the people who come on these boards to bash Bush or the US in general are usually ill-informed about the facts and driven primarily by heresay and emotionally-based opinions. In contrast, most of the people refuting those "useful idiot" points of view come with facts, reason and a historical perspective.

    The most rediculous are the people claiming that Venezuela, under Chavez, has a more true democracy than the U.S. ... This after you should know what Chavez just tried to push through: ending of term limits, the ability to control media under "emergency" rule (state of emergency being of course determined by the dictator), further nationalization of private enterprise, etc... I doubt most of the useful idiots with BDR (Bush Derangement Syndrome) really understand these things anyway, for they are more interested in parroting heresay and rumor and can't get over the fact that Gore lost the election in 2000 even though multiple recounts confirmed the vote.

    I, too, wanted Al Gore to win in 2000, but I refuse to let emotion and heresay impede my better judgement of the facts. Since 2000, I have become appalled at the lack of integrity much of the left-leaning public that I so much would like to identify with seems to represent.

  • Posted By: Woodrow @ 12/08/2007 1:58:29 PM

    Throwing his weight around , threatening other countries, meddling where he doesn't belong. I initially thought the article was about Bush. "where is one piece of evidence of our crumbling democracy? " How about sworn testimony before congress by a software developer who created a program to electonically switch votes. Ask Ohio or Florida voters how confident they are that there votes did or will count ! Talk to soldiers overseas and ask if they are CERTAIN that there votes were not discounted by RNC judges over residency rules.
    "Has Bush taken our right to vote away?" Not our RIGHT to vote, just our abillity to make sure our vortes count.

    • Posted By: jperk80 @ 12/08/2007 3:52:00 PM

      Yeah, that sworn testimony held up well. That's why Bush is being impeached right now, right? Funny how national polls by independent pollsters and investigations backed the results of the 2004 election in Ohio. Also strange that a judge in the RNC's pocket would not allow military votes in order to help Republicans, since the military vote is largely Republican. Floridians had their vote counted a total of 3 times(initial tally and two recounts) in 2000, same result every time. It was also unoffically counted a fourth time and Bush still won. Move on. Please.

      • Posted By: ysidro @ 12/08/2007 4:07:23 PM

        No. Gore wins win all disputed votes are counted.

  • Posted By: alexrc @ 12/08/2007 11:06:03 AM

    This article is terribly irresponsible. I am very disappointed at Newsweek for associating its name with this, even if it is only on the web. There is no evidence of Chavez meddling with the vote; he lost and he accepted the loss that same night. The opposition can and has verified the tally of votes. They are still celebrating and are making future plans based on the results.
    On the other hand, it is a known fact that Bush needed the Supreme Court of the United States to stop counting votes in Florida in 2000 in order to "win" the presidency--with less than half of the popular vote. Write about that, Casta??eda.

    • Posted By: jperk80 @ 12/08/2007 12:19:58 PM

      Clinton won both times with less than half the popular vote. Look it up

      • Posted By: alexrc @ 12/08/2007 12:40:55 PM

        You are missing the point (on purpose, I am sure). In both elections, Clinton got more votes than any other candidate. In 2000, Al Gore had more votes than Bush.

        • Posted By: jperk80 @ 12/08/2007 12:52:35 PM

          You're right. I missed it on purpose. But you miss the point that popular votes don't matter, and for a good reason. It's not perfect, but it's the fairest system we could create. It's simply not fair to blame Bush for winning within the system, just as it would be unfair to criticize Gore if he won within the system.

          • Posted By: ysidro @ 12/08/2007 4:04:20 PM

            The Supreme court stayed the recount thus selecting Bush to Be the President. This would have been seen as a coup in any other country. By the way if all disputed ballots were counted Al Gore would have been elected.

  • Posted By: bbb0b @ 12/08/2007 3:18:55 PM

    One poster talked about software to change votes. I seem to recall some involvement of Venezuela government agency with a funding interest in that. However, most jurisdictions are taking steps to negate any such attempt at stealing our democracy no matter who tries it. The best route for dealing with that is getting involved in your states efforts to provide effective audit trails of electronic voting so that such attempts can be detected.

  • Posted By: steama @ 12/08/2007 2:02:16 PM

    Why does this article and most of the posters miss the entire truth about this event?

    What outcome was in Hogo Chavez best interest? If you think it was passage of this constitutional amendment you have been riddled. Sure this was a fixed situation only 180 degrees backward from what the article is saying. Now Hugo can say to the World, see I am not a dictator, and see the Venezuelan people are free to decide the destiny of this nation. Duh, get it now? You see nothing if free in a dictatorship. Nothing escapes the top dog and EVERYTHING is pre-determined. Nothing has change in Venezuela at all. Hugo Chavez is remaining is power. Hugo was GROSSLY underestimated by this article and people need to wake up that this leader is possible more shrewd than Castro ever was.

    So is the author blind or maybe something worse?

    I hope you all at least enjoyed The Hugo Show even though most everyone missed the plot.

  • Posted By: Caligorante @ 12/08/2007 1:55:26 PM

    So what, Bush stole the election twice and America stood by and let him get away with it. Plus his brother intimidated elderly black voters and was behind who knows how many other tactics to sway the vote.

  • Posted By: Caligorante @ 12/08/2007 1:51:50 PM

    So what, Bush stole the election twice and Americans let him get away with it.

  • Posted By: Parliament @ 12/08/2007 4:57:25 AM

    Why don't you guys write about the colossal corruption of the current heads of U.S government before dealing with what is going on elsewhere. While it may be true that Chaves did attempt such a move on the recounts of vote, though you have provided no such proof other than speculation, you should also write a comprehensive review on how corrupt Bush and his buddies won the election and have been implementing their rotten-core politics at home and abroad. I just may start giving you some credibility on these articles if you have the guts to shed a light on what's going on at home. Thanks!

    • Posted By: UnionFree @ 12/08/2007 1:07:02 PM

      I think there have been thousands of times more articles about Bush and his cabinet. We should share all dishonest practices with the people. The US press documents all of these things from: Clinton having and affair and committing perjury, Clinton pardoning nearly 100 criminals on the last day of his presidency to the current administration awarding contracts to Cheney's old company and someone from their administration revealing the identity of a CIA spy. I have not seen the U.S. press leave any story untouched (here or abroad).

  • Posted By: miran @ 12/08/2007 12:35:27 PM

    PLESE ACCEPT THAT THERE IS MORE DEMOCRATIC PRACTICE IN VENEZUELA THAN US.

  • Posted By: alxpenguin @ 12/08/2007 12:21:45 PM

    This article is very blunt ,but nonetheless, Id say its quite accurate. Still its not a great idea to present certain things as as definite truths (such as saying that the military forced him to accept defeat, even though I believe this really is the case) withouth presenting solid proof.

  • Posted By: kingmoumou @ 12/08/2007 12:00:48 PM

    Chavez proved more democratic than the Bush clique by conceding to a popular outcome. What did USA do? Although Al Gore won 500 000 votes more than Bush, he was not allowed a recount. Allan

    • Posted By: jperk80 @ 12/08/2007 12:17:13 PM

      These complaints become tiresome after 7 years. First off, the popular vote means nothing, the electoral college was set up to keep all states relevant in national elections. Second, Gore not only got his recount in Florida, he received two. It was only after trying to get a third recount, that the Supreme Court ruled that the other two were sufficient. By law he was really only allowed one recount, so he got special treatment. The best part is that even after all this, several independent and partisan groups completed the third recount. Take a wild guess who won? The guy in office. Like him or not, baseless accusations about this stolen election lose all credibility when facts are reviewed. As for this article, I'd be inclined to agree but where's the evidence?

  • Posted By: alexrc @ 12/08/2007 11:05:11 AM

    This article is terribly irresponsible. I am very disappointed at Newsweek for associating its name with this, even if it is only on the web. There is no evidence of Chavez meddling with the vote; he lost and he accepted the loss that same night. The opposition can and has verified the tally of votes. They are still celebrating and are making future plans based on the results.
    On the other hand, it is a known fact that Bush needed the Supreme Court of the United States to stop counting votes in Florida in 2000 in order to "win" the presidency--with less than half of the popular vote. Write about that, Casta??eda.

  • Posted By: padmasambhava @ 12/08/2007 10:46:40 AM

    Well if most of you had ever been to his country, you would know how our media is biased, especially Newsweek. Chavez conceded and was somewhat humble about it and you guys call it a victory for freedom when your own freedoms here have been striped away. In fact the opposition in venezuala has more freedom than all Americans. Newsweek is poor journalism as is most of the mainsteam american intellectual right and left. They should print fact not fiction.

  • Posted By: gecko79 @ 12/08/2007 9:26:42 AM

    Even as I read this article, rumors of saber-rattling persist as the radical wing of the Pro-Chavez constituency maintain a defiant attitude towards the final referendum results.
    Chavez' expletives in referring to the opposition's unquestioned victory show little inclination on his part to admit that last Sunday he was measured, weighed and found lacking. We can only hope that the Armed Forces, which prevented a coup to the 1999 Consitution, will maintain this position and repel further attacks to Venezuela's already weakened democrtatic institutions. As far as the Bolivian, Cuban, Argentinian and Nicaraguan regimes, there is little hope that they will support the Opposition's determining victory as longt as they continue to receive funds that could be used to improve the lot of poorer Venezuelans and is used to purchase political allegiances instead.

  • Posted By: upsetwithhope @ 12/08/2007 7:13:10 AM

    El General Isa??as Baduel acaba de alertar a la sociedad civil y en general al pueblo de Venezuela, sobre la posibilidad de que el gobierno de hugo Ch??vez intente aprovechando las vacaciones decembrinas y el receso de la oposici??n en actividades pol??ticas, de emitir un Boletin Especial del CNE con resultados favorables al Bloque del SI e imponer la Reforma de la Constituci??n, lo que representar??a un golpe de estado.

    Las declaraciones las emiti?? hace 10 minutos en el programa de Marianela Salazar, 99.1 FM M??gica,.

    Baduel indic?? que la sociedad venezolana podr??a encontrarse con esta sorpresa en medio de las fiestas decembrinas, lo que impedir??a comerse las Hallacas.

    Por su parte, Marienala Salazar le precis?? a Baduel que ten??a informaci??n de sus fuentes, seg??n las cuales el presidente Ch??vez estar??a pensando en tirarse un Autogolpe, lo que facilitar??a todo su ofensiva contra la victoria del Bloque del NO.

    Salazar le inform?? adem??s al General Baduel, que en el Consejo Nacional Electoral existe el rumor de que rodar??an cabezas y saldr??a la Rectora Tibsay Lucena, siendo sustitu??da por Sandra Oblitas, del ala radical roja, lo que facilitar??a la emisi??n del Boletin planteando la Vuictoria del SI.

    El resto de la entrevista gir?? en torno a las palabras escatol??gicas del tipo aqu??l,lo dicho por el Ministro dela Defensa de que Baduel era tr??nsfuga, etc.



    ____________ _________ _________ _______




    http://www.contacto cuba.com/ http://www.cubarepr esion.blogspot. com http://www.derechos humanoscuba. blogspot. com
    http://www.therealc uba.com http://www.cubalibe ral.org/videos/ CHE_Anatomiadeun Mito.wmv http://www.cubapord entro.com/

  • Posted By: upsetwithhope @ 12/08/2007 7:07:21 AM

    Si quieres libertad, lucha por tus presos
    Por: Alejandro Pe??a Esclusa



    En esta ??poca navide??a, hay muchas y muy poderosas razones para exigir la libertad de los presos pol??ticos y el regreso de los exiliados, entre ellas las siguientes:



    1. El oficialismo debe reconocer la derrota con acciones concretas. A pesar de haber fracasado el 2D, Ch??vez no quiere reconocerlo, e insiste en imponernos el Socialismo del siglo XXI a toda costa y por cualquier medio. El pueblo debe hacerse respetar, oblig??ndolo a entrar en cintura. La liberaci??n de los presos pol??ticos y la anulaci??n de juicios a los exiliados ser??a una clara se??al de retorno a la democracia y, por tanto, un precio justo que Ch??vez debe pagar por haber intentado legalizar una dictadura. ??O es que acaso pretende mantenerse en el poder hasta el 2013, dejando todo ese tiempo presos a sus adversarios?



    2. Liberar los presos levanta la moral y fomenta la unidad de la oposici??n. Cuando alguien cae preso o se ve obligado a exiliarse por buscar el beneficio del pueblo, la sociedad debe mostrar su agradecimiento luchando por su libertad. Eso levanta la moral del movimiento y alienta a otros l??deres a dar la batalla. Por el contrario, cuando se deja morir de mengua a los h??roes, la sociedad se envilece y el resto de los dirigentes se desmoraliza, temerosos de ser abandonados a su propia suerte cuando les toque la desgracia. Adem??s, ??ste es un tema que unifica a todos los sectores de la oposici??n e, incluso, causa simpat??a en muchos chavistas.



    3. Luchar por tus presos garantiza tu propia libertad. Actualmente, todos estamos en peligro, unos por estar en la lista Tasc??n, otros por no ser socialistas, aquellos por poseer tierras, ??stos por no usar franela roja, y as?? sucesivamente. Cada vez que alguien es perseguido, debemos sentirnos inmediatamente identificados y solidarizarnos como si fuese un hermano; porque, sin previo aviso, cualquiera de nosotros puede convertirse en v??ctima y, llegado ese momento, necesitaremos de los dem??s la misma solidaridad que hoy se nos exige.



    4. Luchar por la justicia te ennoblece. Luchar por los exiliados y por los presos pol??ticos no s??lo los beneficia a ellos y a sus familiares, sino sobre todo a ti mismo, porque te enaltece y te convierte en mejor persona. La celebraci??n de la Navidad es una ??poca propicia para reflexionar sobre el sufrimiento de otros y para regalar libertad a quienes tanto la merecen.



    Por todos estos motivos y muchos otros que aqu?? no mencionamos, hacemos un llamado a todas la organizaciones, partidos pol??ticos, gremios, academias y, en fin, a todos los venezolanos de buena voluntad, a realizar un esfuerzo especial para obtener la libertad de los presos pol??ticos y el pronto regreso de los exiliados. Pr??ximamente, plantearemos algunas estrategias para lograr este noble objetivo.

  • Posted By: worryandconcern @ 12/08/2007 7:01:02 AM

    Si quieres libertad, lucha por tus presos
    Por: Alejandro Pe??a Esclusa



    En esta ??poca navide??a, hay muchas y muy poderosas razones para exigir la libertad de los presos pol??ticos y el regreso de los exiliados, entre ellas las siguientes:



    1. El oficialismo debe reconocer la derrota con acciones concretas. A pesar de haber fracasado el 2D, Ch??vez no quiere reconocerlo, e insiste en imponernos el Socialismo del siglo XXI a toda costa y por cualquier medio. El pueblo debe hacerse respetar, oblig??ndolo a entrar en cintura. La liberaci??n de los presos pol??ticos y la anulaci??n de juicios a los exiliados ser??a una clara se??al de retorno a la democracia y, por tanto, un precio justo que Ch??vez debe pagar por haber intentado legalizar una dictadura. ??O es que acaso pretende mantenerse en el poder hasta el 2013, dejando todo ese tiempo presos a sus adversarios?



    2. Liberar los presos levanta la moral y fomenta la unidad de la oposici??n. Cuando alguien cae preso o se ve obligado a exiliarse por buscar el beneficio del pueblo, la sociedad debe mostrar su agradecimiento luchando por su libertad. Eso levanta la moral del movimiento y alienta a otros l??deres a dar la batalla. Por el contrario, cuando se deja morir de mengua a los h??roes, la sociedad se envilece y el resto de los dirigentes se desmoraliza, temerosos de ser abandonados a su propia suerte cuando les toque la desgracia. Adem??s, ??ste es un tema que unifica a todos los sectores de la oposici??n e, incluso, causa simpat??a en muchos chavistas.



    3. Luchar por tus presos garantiza tu propia libertad. Actualmente, todos estamos en peligro, unos por estar en la lista Tasc??n, otros por no ser socialistas, aquellos por poseer tierras, ??stos por no usar franela roja, y as?? sucesivamente. Cada vez que alguien es perseguido, debemos sentirnos inmediatamente identificados y solidarizarnos como si fuese un hermano; porque, sin previo aviso, cualquiera de nosotros puede convertirse en v??ctima y, llegado ese momento, necesitaremos de los dem??s la misma solidaridad que hoy se nos exige.



    4. Luchar por la justicia te ennoblece. Luchar por los exiliados y por los presos pol??ticos no s??lo los beneficia a ellos y a sus familiares, sino sobre todo a ti mismo, porque te enaltece y te convierte en mejor persona. La celebraci??n de la Navidad es una ??poca propicia para reflexionar sobre el sufrimiento de otros y para regalar libertad a quienes tanto la merecen.



    Por todos estos motivos y muchos otros que aqu?? no mencionamos, hacemos un llamado a todas la organizaciones, partidos pol??ticos, gremios, academias y, en fin, a todos los venezolanos de buena voluntad, a realizar un esfuerzo especial para obtener la libertad de los presos pol??ticos y el pronto regreso de los exiliados. Pr??ximamente, plantearemos algunas estrategias para lograr este noble objetivo.

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse