Whether or not Mitt Romney scores political points with his religion speech, he eloquently defended the notion that religiously informed morality has a role to play in civic discourse.
Comment: Mixing religion and politic is dangerous it is a fact! the middle east is a good example. religions have to stay out of politics. Period!
Comment: There are people who abuse the term or concept ???freedom of religion??? without really understanding the true depth of the words involved. Lets start with the word religion. What is a religion: the belief, habit, ritual, thought, or faith? I believe all synonyms would apply to the definition of the word. Religion could be how I tie my shoes, my political ideas, my thoughts on science, or my feelings toward a particular brand name (in some cases consumerism qualify as religion). Many only argue that religion is strictly a word with a monopoly pertaining only to God or the Church. If you can make the argument that even atheistic approaches that of a religion; then one has to accept that my views on foreign policy or free trade qualify as a religion. Religion is a single or series of repeated behaviors and or thought. That is why we have a freedom of speech, privacy, and the freedom of religion within the constitution. All the concepts of the document from our revolutionary era uphold one another. They cannot exist without the other. These rights are all a form or relative or thought. They are all an attempt to protect the freedom of thought. Such wording of the constitution has to be interpreted with the full meaning of the word. For words are ideas, concepts, or theologies in and of themselves. Now think about the word freedom. I hope we all understand what freedom is. As well we should also think about what we do not have the freedom to do. There are many thoughts that are originated within Biblical religion that people do not have the right to do; consider many verses of Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Revelation, and other books of the Bible. (I would hope we all know which verses they are) We do not have a total freedom for Biblical Church based religion. If we did, we would be living in a world of chaos, torture, and general madness including witch burnings, stoning, forced conversion, or beheadings. There are concepts in the secular world that are beliefs which are illegal they are the current laws on the books. Those laws are a record of what belief or thoughts you shall not hold. So beware when Biblical religion claims they have the power, the right, or the protection to conduct their actions when in conjunction with the government. There are some who would claim that Biblical religion has the freedom of religion as to fuse with the government or take on the responsibilities/functions of government with tax dollar support. My faith-based program is the issue and unconstitutionality of faith based programs and any vicarious use of those programs for the potential of converts via the heading of people to faith based services. The Church should function independently from government at all times. This serves the society in protection of the true freedom of religion, our freedom of thought.
Comment: The term Secular has been tainted by many in the US to mean Atheism with out thinking about why government is Secular. Secular government is the removal of religion from state, the removal of religion from reason, logic, and law while respecting its existence outside of government. Secular Government protects the freedom of religion by not including it in the laws that govern the nation. Steven Waldman (speaking of faith NPR) could not be more incorrect when he mentions the founding fathers personal belief as proof that religion or the church should fuse with government. State written prayers, church/religion, or state belief systems violate the individuals right to believe as they choose. Steven Waldman should realize that a secular government keeps any singular form of religion from taking control of the government. A secular system of democracy is the cornerstone to the foundation of the amendments that allow citizens the right to believe in any or no religious system. The separation of church and state or the anti-establishment clause of the constitution allows Christian religious conservatives to practice their faith as they see fit. As well it protects the Buddhist, Hindu, or any other religion, the freedom of religion does not mean that any one religion has a right to use the state as a tool for self-advancement. The argument that the separation is a gray area is a fallacy. A nation is either secular or theocratic. There is no gray area. The separation of church and state was not intended for the flourishing of any one religion. It was intended to keep all belief free by keeping the state out or belief. There is no mention of any sectarian definition of God used in any historical document of the US, nor should there be. Waldman should remember that there was no founding faith outlined in the declaration of independence or the constitution. I would ask Waldman who???s God does it refer to? Does religion truly make for improved civic or individual behavior patterns? Some of the worst elements of society have been devoutly religious, Hitler, the BTK killer, the leaders of the Christian and Muslim crusades, the witch hunters of Europe and early America, Bin Laden, and on and on it goes. Yes there was Stalin and Poll Pot but they pale in comparison to the religious violence perpetrated over the millennia. So I would argue that the founding fathers knew history well and that is why they created a secular government even while they may have been religious themselves. It is sad that many Christians hear the term religion and think only of themselves. How greedy and self-serving. We must realize that secularism rejects religion in government while recognizing its right to exist separate from government, in the privacy of your home and places of worship. It recognizes God given rights while not recognizing any particular organized religion.
Comment: There are people who abuse the term or concept ???freedom of religion??? without really understanding the true depth of the words involved. Lets start with the word religion. What is a religion: the belief, habit, ritual, thought, or faith? I believe all synonyms would apply to the definition of the word. Religion could be how I tie my shoes, my political ideas, my thoughts on science, or my feelings toward a particular brand name (in some cases consumerism qualify as religion). Many only argue that religion is strictly a word with a monopoly pertaining only to God or the Church. If you can make the argument that even atheistic approaches that of a religion; then one has to accept that my views on foreign policy or free trade qualify as a religion. Religion is a single or series of repeated behaviors and or thought. That is why we have a freedom of speech, privacy, and the freedom of religion within the constitution. All the concepts of the document from our revolutionary era uphold one another. They cannot exist without the other. These rights are all a form or relative or thought. They are all an attempt to protect the freedom of thought. Such wording of the constitution has to be interpreted with the full meaning of the word. For words are ideas, concepts, or theologies in and of themselves. Now think about the word freedom. I hope we all understand what freedom is. As well we should also think about what we do not have the freedom to do. There are many thoughts that are originated within Biblical religion that people do not have the right to do; consider many verses of Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Revelation, and other books of the Bible. (I would hope we all know which verses they are) We do not have a total freedom for Biblical Church based religion. If we did, we would be living in a world of chaos, torture, and general madness including witch burnings, stoning, forced conversion, or beheadings. There are concepts in the secular world that are beliefs which are illegal they are the current laws on the books. Those laws are a record of what belief or thoughts you shall not hold. So beware when Biblical religion claims they have the power, the right, or the protection to conduct their actions when in conjunction with the government. There are some who would claim that Biblical religion has the freedom of religion as to fuse with the government or take on the responsibilities/functions of government with tax dollar support. My faith-based program is the issue and unconstitutionality of faith based programs and any vicarious use of those programs for the potential of converts via the heading of people to faith based services. The Church should function independently from government at all times. This serves the society in protection of the true freedom of religion, our freedom of thought.
Comment: THATS WHATS WRONG WITH THE WORLD! RELIGIOUS FANATISISM!!!
Comment: Mormons are bible thumping on this post....tsk tsk tsk. Jesus Christ has been all over this world and taught his beliefs. He taught that there should be truths, and justices for your fellow man. I dont think I recall ever hearing though that the Mormons were the ownly TRUE church on this earth. So for a church to go around twist this thought into someones head is just sick. Mitt Romney is running for Pres. not the next prophet. Any president that gets elected wont openly use his religious preferences to run the country, if so then thats where congress and other house leaders come in. JFK was highly religious and was doing a great job until he got nailed in Tex. The United States of America was built on some sort of religion, and I dont recall which religion blatantly help form the Declaration of Independence, or any of our fine documents that make our country what it is today. So I wouldnt care what religion the candidate was if I feel they could run the country fair and for the whole people then they are the right person for me.
Comment: Dear...soccerchicky? Historically, God hides marvelous, wonderful things from the wise and prudent, and reveals them unto babes. Light escapes perception in the darkness. And they who despise light have taken away, even that light which they have. "Whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. For John (the Baptist) came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a wine bibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children," (St Matthew 11:16-19). Infact, the Lord and His followers have historically been persecuted and misjudged for "there crazy behavior." I'm sorry you've had bad experiences in the past with either Mormonism or else Mormons. I am a Mormon, aka, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints; from my birth I've been taught to adore and to emulate the very Messiah, who knows us both by name. I urge you to give His church a second chance, "if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him...But let him ask in faith nothing wavering, for he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed," (James 1:5-6). "Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ," (Moroni 7:19)(The Book of Mormon). love, Conner.
Comment: This article is to mumbo jumbo for me! I feel it was to confusing to read and went no where with it's information! I am a rebublican and I feel very strongly that I will not be voting for a a president who is a Mormon. I do think he has great ideas, and plans for the future, but I cannot bring myself to vote for someone of this faith. I have first hand experience with the Mormon church and there crazy behavior. Is this going to effect his election. I believe it will.
Comment: Romney is a winner! the other poster william demuth has some serious issues going on.I hope you come back to reality and realize that someone loves you.
Comment: Flip flopper Romney and his fellow mormons believe some pretty kooky stuff. THOSE are the serious issues! Obama has more character in one toe than romney ever will.
Comment: From the beginning of time, religion has been a way for people to raise their morals and values. Religion gives them something to look to, to believe in. I may not be a very religious person myself, but i respect those who are. Though i am not sure exactly what "Mormon" is, i will stand beside any president that has good values and believes in something, over someone who does not.
Comment: Religion is the primary historic justification for war, human rights atrocities and genocide. From Auschwitz to Darfur, from the witch trials of Salem to the cross burnings at Selma, religion has been used by ignorant men to justify the brutalization and murder of millions of innocents. Our evolution will not be complete until we purge it from our gene pool.
Comment: I am tired of reading from those who are prejudice against someone just for having a belief system. America is falling apart because too many people break down those with a moral fibre in their souls. Some of the best people I've ever known were Mormons and I'd trust my life and my country in their hands any day. Plus, over half of these prejudice comments have nothing to do with being a president. Some people have a bone to pick with someone else, not Mitt Romney.
Comment: I am tired of hearing from those who are prejudice in their own way demean those with a moral conscience. The reason Mitt Romney even talks about his religion is because too many narrow minded people focus on that and don't look at anything else. I think this world is falling apart because so many people are trying to take religion out of life. I'll applaud anyone who tries to build America back up through their beliefs. Some of the best people I've ever known are Mormons and I'd love to have any of them run this country.
Comment: Mitt is an idiot. All he can focus on it seems is religion. He makes wierd and illogical statements like, "I would never have a Muslem in my cabinet." Or, "America needs a man of faith as president. We can all agree on that."
Mitt is far too narrow minded to be president and we do not need four more years of a small mind. I mean we already went through the dumbest president administration. We really need a break from ape like leaders such as Mormon Mitt
Comment: Give me one president who has never made a weird or illogical comment. And do you mean he's ape like because he has two eyes, a nose, and a mouth? Seriously, grow up. Recess is over.
Comment: Grow up? You support a redneck who believes in a hodgepodge religion that has the worst of all the other bogus religions, and you want someone else to grow up? Crawl back into your cave and wait for Jesus.
Comment: Havent we had enough of incompetent presidents little girl?
Comment: Why is it that these guys who can't wait for the chance to stand on the podium, put their hand on the Bible, and swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, are also so willing to violate the part of the Constitution where it says that there shall be no religious test for political office. We have had enough abuse of the Constitution by the current administration and their religious views. The only doctrine that is important it is one stated in the Constitution. You guys are really in for a surprise when it turns out that God is a black Jewish woman who is really P.O.ed
Comment: And boy will she be mad! LOL!!!
Comment: is the union of church and state, like what happened in the past, still possible today? how?
Comment: is the union of church and state, like those in the past, possible today?
Comment: 2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll
http://www.votenic.com
The Only Poll That Matters.
Results Posted Every Tuesday Evening.
Comment: 2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll
http://www.votenic.com
The Only Poll That Matters
Results Posted Every Tuesday Evening.
Comment: Religious bondage is no more or less onerous than any other form of bondage. Cates misquotes Madison by trying to equate looking down on religious bondage as being distrustful of religion. Religion means a lot to me, but I still am very opposed to muslim extremists that would pledge death to followers to convert to Chritianity. It was because of religious persecution and imposed religious tests in this country that led the founders to inscribe the "there shall be no religious test" in our founding documents. Besides Cates, it is people like you that want to force all public expressions of religion out of the public square and behind closed doors. More than anything, most Americans would agree with Romney that it was not the founders' intent to drive a belief in God from our courts, from our money and from public expression. May I remain able to openly practice religion as you are able to openly ridicule it.
Comment: How can one be free if one cannot choose to follow, emulate or worship something or someone? Be it a God, Car, Sun, Statue, Beads, Cow, nothing, ambiguity or whatever symbol, being, spirit or object it may be. Without being able to engage in worshipping something is man truly free? "Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom", seems to be a fundamental truth. Peoples belief and worship of something, whatever system or ritual it may follow, form a set of beliefs and values, for some even an obsession like an avid sports fan who believes that a sport is all important and consuming and worth modeling his behavior on a super star of a particular sport. Attending a weekly sporting events on Sunday with thousands of others or watching it on TV. Rules are explained by commentators if there is doubt or confusion, the games occur on a regular schedule, there is a rule book, and statistics are kept to judge how a particular player is doing. A father and a child can look up to or admire what a sports figure does, so much so, that he even wears part of his uniform that displays his name. Without freedom to choose to play the sport, go to a game or watch it on TV, or dress in the sports gear, know and understand the rules, or model his life on the sports star is man truly free? Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom.
Comment: We should all remember that the separation of church and state was established to protect America from the church not the church from America.
Comment: Mitt Romney's mistake was to say "I believe in Jesus Christ" at the end of his speech. That was unneccesary.
Comment: it was neccaesary, he said what he believed in. He does not want to be president to put his religion on us. he wants to help the Americans. Why are people so respectful to other religions but not respectful to the Latter Day Saints.
Comment: They are ALL cults, and a national embarrasment
Comment: With Soledad Obrien having one of the first presidential debates on the importance of faith, I think this is the wrong direction for the country to be heading for our campaign tactics. Religion should not have a place in politics. With all of this discussion of faith, when we are facing such differences in the world's eye. Why bring more attention that "we are different"! We should concentrate on the real issues and the belief in humankind.
Comment: 2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll
Comment: Let's just imagine that Romney is not in the lead, not even close and Huckabee is by far the obvious ticket holder. Would this be different? Would religion be such an hot issue with Huckabee, he is an ordained minister of the Baptists faith. Why does Romney have to explain his beliefs and Huckabee does not? Media is feeding off anything right now to get a story. If Huckabee was the obvious nomination they would be after him just like Romney.
Comment: wrong huckabee is baptist. baptists do not have secret handshakes in the temple where they covenant to give all of their time talents all the lord has blessed them with or all that the lord may bless you with to the church of jesus christ of latter day saints for the building up of zion. ( bow you head and say yes.)
Baptists don't have their prophet on larry king live saying we don't have anything to do with polygamy we gave that up 100 years ago all the while they are marrying people polygamously in the temple daily. My mother in law is married for time and all eternity to her husband who is also married for time and all eternity to his dead first wife. That's not polygamy? Yeah we're gonna trust the mormons.
Comment: Polygamy is defined as having more than one spouse at the same time. Unless you believe in the Mormon temple ordinances of marriage for time an all eternity (which you clearly do NOT) then you clearly can not argue for something that you do NOT believe as a basis for making another argument.
So, either you believe in the mormon temple ordinances (in which case you spit in the face of God for making light of something that is clearly personal and sacred to them), or you do not. which is it?
Comment: Prophecy of Joseph Smith from 175 years ago:
the time would come when the Constitution and Government would hang by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the Latter day Saints will step forth and save it.
Yep, after the last 8 years our constitution is looking pretty haggered. Mitt is here to save us.
Comment: Mitt Romney maintains that ???Freedom requires religion??? ??? ? I don???t think so. Our founding fathers had it right ??? "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect." - President James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774
Mr. Romney is not fit for the noble position of president precisely because of his irrational and delusional dependence on religion.
An educated adult man should not believe in Santa or gods, to do so is a delusional mental illness. Additionally, mixing religion and politics is decidedly un-American and should not be tolerated.
http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2003/04/religion-is-mental-illness.php
A delusion is defined as a false personal belief based on incorrect inference about external reality and firmly sustained despite of what everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary (DSM-IV, p. 765)
Comment: I served in the U.S. Army 1st ID 3rd Brg 2/2 C company in Kosovo and Irag as an infantryman. When a person is near death they cry out to or exclaim a supreme beings name, why is this? There is no such thing as an atheist. No one can claim to be an atheist, people use their or a supreme beings name in conversation to help express an emotion. In their truly dying moment you will use a name to cry out to, its always a loved one and supreme beings name. Always.
Comment: You got to much Morphine in you dude. Don't assume we all see your hallucinations.
Comment: Because he is an irrational despot in league with the clergy. Intelligent people don't believe in ghost, gods or fairies. President Jefferson said it best:
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813
--Thomas Jefferson to Horatio G. Spafford, 1814. ME 14:119
Comment: How does your exchristian site define intelligence? I wonder, because it seems to differ from the definition of intelligence that the rest of us use. Without the intelligence of belivers in gods, you certainly wouldn't have the technology to have shared such a comment. In fact, you probably wouldn't have had access to the information that has helped you form such an opinion. My guess is that you would be foraging for food, clinging to survival, and thanking the gods for sparing providing you food. Just a guess.
You certainly are entitled to your beliefs, even without ridicule. But so are we. It is so incredibly unintelligent to claim that anyone who has faith is unintelligent.
Comment: Religion is absurd. Believers in false Gods are tragic at best and dangerous at worst.
Comment: Your criticism of Mitt Romney is based solely on your militant anti-theism. Your citation of James Madison's letter is irrelevant, Romney is not advocating religious bondage. Your citation of the DSM is likewise irrelevant, as frankly, there is not inconvertible and obvious evidence to the contrary to all religion. Romney is advocating constitutional religious free excersice, "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor abridging the free excersise thereof...". (U.S. Constitution, Ammendment I) If Romney's belief in religion disqualifies him from being president of the United States, why is it constitutionally protected?
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