A New American Holy War

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  • Posted By: scgeoff @ 12/13/2007 12:47:10 PM

    Abraham Lincoln handled a religious litmus test perfectly when he was running for Congress in 1846. He basically told an evangelical minister that his own (Lincoln's) religious views were no one else's business.

    More of today's candidates should do the same. It's time that we remind the Christian Right that the first freedom listed in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constittution is Freedom of Religion. In its own way, the Christian Right is as much of a threat to America as Islamic fundamentalists are.

    To read how Lincoln handled his religious litmus test, click here:

    http://abrahamlincolnblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/abraham-lincolns-own-religion-litmus.html

    There are serious problems facing our country and our world.

  • Posted By: chris_smithatl @ 12/13/2007 12:24:21 PM

    We have lost our moral grounding in the world and have to hold on to our control through military bases. Race conflicts, religious conflicts and divisions will only increase even more in the future. Also, with talkings heads like Hannity, Lou Dobbs and Glenn Beck are further vitiating the atmosphere by pitting American against american. As Ron Paul correctly says 'We have to let go the empire and return to the constitution'. Its the only last resort.

  • Posted By: CA2NY @ 12/13/2007 9:14:38 AM

    Wait a minute! Huckabee did NOT set himself up as a judge of other religions. But by believing that what he believes is true, by default he must believe that an opposing belief is false. It's not a complicated concept. As a Christian, I believe that the Bible is the true and COMPLETE word of God; Mormons do not. We can't both be right on this. And Mormons cannot call themselves Christian if they hold to beliefs that are patently not Christian.

    • Posted By: Seeker @ 12/13/2007 12:08:09 PM

      Mormons also believe the Bible to be the true word of God. Just not COMPLETE.

      Who are you, or any other man, to be so arrogant as to tell God to shut up? ("Okay God, that's enough. Now stop talking to us.")

      Look into the history of the Bible. It was not compiled all at once. Books were added and removed over the years, and edited, augmented and redacted. The reason for all this editing was NOT to further the will of God, but to further the very earthly ambitions of whoever was in power at the time.

      Nor were the books written in the order in which they appear in the modern Bible. Revelation, the last book, the one that says "Don't add to the book," was written before the other writings of John -- and before I, II Peter. The inclusion of Revelation was debated by the early church, and it wasn't added to the Bible until much later than all the rest. So, did Revelation "add to the book," or did the other 55 books of the Bible "add to the book" of Revelation?

      The "don't add to the book" warning also appears in Deuteronomy, and in the Temple Scroll of the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's an ancient copyright notice, nothing more. "The book," to John, was Revelation. The Bible didn't exist yet when he wrote those words. Once you know the history of the Bible, it is disingenuous to assert that the canon is closed, using "don't add to the book" as justification for the assertion.

      Nor does 2 Timothy 3:16 close the canon. "All scripture is given by inspiration ..." can also be rendered "Every inspired scripture is given ..." It doesn't limit the canon; rather it leaves it open-ended. And anyway, the words must be twisted beyond credulity to make them say "The Bible is enough." When Paul wrote those words, the Bible didn't exist yet.

  • Posted By: jubalethan @ 12/08/2007 10:24:27 PM

    Are there "theoligical concepts we don't need to go into"? America needs to know that a man running for president embraces a faith that declares that black people descended from Lucifer and white people descended from Jesus. Is it any wonder Romney deosn't want to go there?

    • Posted By: SilenceDogood @ 12/09/2007 2:59:27 AM

      First before you publish something on the web, get your facts straight. "Mormons" don't believe that black people descended from Lucifer. ???Mormons" believe that everyone is equal in the sight of god. Your statement just shows your ignorance on the subject of ???Mormons???. You try to be a member of a religious minority group almost wherever you go, having to here people's stereo types, and opinions about your faith based on misinformation of you are and see how YOU like it. No wonder he didn't want to talk about his religion. Besides, there are some questions that do not need to be answered to see if he will be a fit commander-in-chief. He is vary courageous to do what he is doing. If you are going to bash him, have valid, unshallow reasons to do it. Besides, you should look at a candidate???s platforms and ideas to help change the country not what religion they practice.

      • Posted By: davem3705 @ 12/09/2007 11:50:38 AM

        "Mormons believe that everyone is equal in the sight of god", seriously, how can you make that statement. African Americans and women both are repressed in the church. They are seen as second class citizens not quite equal to their white, male counterparts. Through the use of dogma and psychological warfare, the church leaders have taken bigotry to a new level, a level that still continues to this day. Dark-skinned people are seen as a curse from god, descendants from cain, and eventually can obtain the benefits given to their white-skinned brothers only after achieving a certain level of piousness. However, they will not remain dark-skinned they will now be light-skinned, a sign that their transformation is complete.

        • Posted By: Seeker @ 12/13/2007 11:39:28 AM

          You assert that "African Americans and women both are repressed in the church. They are seen as second class citizens not quite equal to their white, male counterparts." I have heard this repeated over and over, by people who are merely repeating it and don't know what they are talking about. Ask Romney's wife if she are treated like a "second class citizen." Your kids play with Mormon kids; ask their mothers if they are treated like "second class citizens." They will say no. Ask any members of the Genesis Group (an unofficial gathering of African Americans) if they are treated like "second class citizens." Okay, you will get some yeses and some nos from that group, but it's because of the personal prejudices of non-black members, not because of official church policy. Ask Gladys Knight (of the Pips) if she is treated like a third-class citizen, being both female and black. She will most certainly tell you no, as she has told others.

          Repeating something that dozens of other people have said doesn't make it so. Investigate the claim yourself, by talking with some Mormons, before you believe it and repeat it.

        • Posted By: randytayler @ 12/09/2007 12:58:55 PM

          The real issue at hand is whether the religious of this nation are imposing their beliefs on non-believers, or whether Atheists and agnostics are imposing their beliefs on the religious. Romney spoke of tolerance no matter what belief one has - the credentials for president aren't specific dogmas, but morals and values which can be shared by all, and by experience. (And, Davem, what you claim is not what I believe, and I'm Mormon. My wife is my partner, and we run our family as one. We esteem our "dark-skinned" neighbors as ourselves.)

        • Posted By: randytayler @ 12/09/2007 12:58:24 PM

          The real issue at hand is whether the religious of this nation are imposing their beliefs on non-believers, or whether Atheists and agnostics are imposing their beliefs on the religious. Romney spoke of tolerance no matter what belief one has - the credentials for president aren't specific dogmas, but morals and values which can be shared by all, and by experience. (And, Davem, what you claim is not what I believe, and I'm Mormon. My wife is my partner, and we run our family as one. We esteem our "dark-skinned" neighbors as ourselves.)

    • Posted By: dubldoc @ 12/10/2007 8:18:27 AM

      I agree with you, Jubalethan. Anybody who claims "religion defines me" clearly has raised the bar for self disclosure... after all, the man is not running for dog catcher. In any case, I'm scared of religious wingnuts and the paternalistic thinking they represent. Therefore, The Flying Spaghetti Monster (Blessed be HIS name) will now serve as my rational and moral compass... and since his plates are platinum, not gold, my religion clearly must be the only 'True' one!!!

    • Posted By: SilenceDogood @ 12/09/2007 3:06:22 AM

      First before you publish something on the web, get your facts straight. "Mormons" don't believe that black people descended from Lucifer. ???Mormons" believe that everyone is equal in the sight of god. Your statement just shows your ignorance on the subject of ???Mormons???. You try to be a member of a religious minority group almost wherever you go, having to here people's stereo types, and opinions about your faith based on misinformation of you are and see how YOU like it. No wonder he didn't want to talk about his religion. Besides, there are some questions that do not need to be answered to see if he will be a fit commander-in-chief. He is vary courageous to do what he is doing. If you are going to bash him, have valid, unshallow reasons to do it. Besides, you should look at a candidate???s platforms and ideas to help change the country not what religion they practice.

  • Posted By: Bob Gibson @ 12/13/2007 10:21:18 AM

    In living memory of the two most ineffective presidents have both been overtly religious. One was a Democrat (Jimmy Carter) and the other was a Republican (George Bush). So clearly it's not a question of political affiliation. Rather, I think it is a question of competence. In Carter's case is religious principles did not allow him to act properly in the Iran hostage crisis. The attack on the Tehran embassy was by any judgment an act of war and should have been treated as such. Carter's failure to do so laid the basis for a more active phase of Islamic terrorism. Bush on the other hand is demonstrated extreme incompetence in all aspects of his presidency, and yet he claims to talk to God. If indeed he does talk to God, then the only conclusion we can draw is that God has a wicked sense of humor. In the next election we should have a set of criteria which allow us to evaluate the competence of candidates independent of religion or political affiliation. Then we will have a chance of electing a competent president.

  • Posted By: CA2NY @ 12/13/2007 9:22:48 AM

    And one more thing: When he said that he has no evidence or indication that God has handed us a new book in addition to the 66 canonized in 325 A.D., Huckabee was ANSWERING THE QUESTION. The interviewer asked him, "Do you think scriptural revelations from God stopped when the Bible was completed?" He answered the question; what kind of twisted logic is required to conclude that he is judging another religion by simply answering a question. Give me a break, Newsweek. What yellow journalism.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/13/2007 2:52:51 AM

    It is time for change no more divisiveness, OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT.

    • Posted By: VelLorson @ 12/13/2007 9:08:30 AM

      Growing up as a 5th generation Mormon in a faithful Mormon household, I frequently heard my mother criticize the politics of Ezra Taft Benson and criticize the John Birch Society. Eddiewhere's views lead directly to logical contradiction. Presidents of the Mormon church have espoused many different political views so it is impossible for any Mormon to uncritically accept them all. And eddiewhere declares that "ETB speaks for all Mormons and they cannot criticize him." As a lifelong active Mormon, I hereby refute eddiewhere by saying that Ezra Taft Benson was wrong to support the John Birch Society to the extent he did precisely because it fosters the kind of political mental illness eddiewhere manifests in articulating his crazy conspiracy theory.

  • Posted By: APentecostal @ 12/11/2007 12:55:27 PM

    Angelus1967 - Why are you so angry....you have mentioned God more than any of us believers....funny thing. Seems as though we have done our job. Have a wonderfully blessed day. I truly hope that your heart is shown the love of Christ before you leave this planet. I pray that the love of Christ envelopes your heart. Read the autobiography of CS Lewis. It will help you.

    • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 12/11/2007 4:07:28 PM

      I am not angry at all and I don't know what "job" you think you have done. I may well have mentioned god (small g) more than any of you believers but that is the way the conversation has run. It does not mean that any of you have swayed my mind in any way towards your sad little belief system. I am just truly astonished that people have these beliefs in this day and age; there is no evidence that god exists or that Jesus Christ was anything mroe than a man. Infact there is not really much evidence that JC even existed but that is neither here nor there, fact is he was not the son of god and believing in him is ahrdly necessary for me to live a fulfilling and meaningful life.
      Pray all you wish, I have no need for Christ to "envelop my heart", it serves no purpose to worship that which does not exist. Keep your prayers for yourself and use them as you see fit. I have never seen anything that would make me believe that prayer does anything for anyone.
      The biography of C.S. Lewis? Why? I don't recall asking for help, nor do I need it. Any help that I would ever need can come from the earthly plane not from someone/something that doesn't exist.

      • Posted By: APentecostal @ 12/11/2007 4:17:46 PM

        He does exist. He is real. Prayer does work. I challenge you. Try God out for a couple of days. Read the Bible. Pray to God. Ask him into your heart. See what happens. Couldn't hurt, right? You can just prove your point....or maybe, just maybe, the love of the Father that sent his son could save your life. He loves you, not matter what you think or what you do. He simply loves you because he made you. He just wants you to love him back.

        • Posted By: eubankk @ 12/12/2007 1:41:31 AM

          APentecostal - I believe that I have already stated that I cannot change your mind nor will you change mine. I know that you christian are supposed to try and turn all hearts toward JC and the love of god, the son, the holy spirit, etcetera ans so forth for all time. Amen and pass the potato chips. You know nothing of me or any faith that I may have ever had. I HAVE prayed when I was younger (and stupider) and nothing ever came of it. No peace, no answers, no heart filled with the joy of the "spirit" none of that. I have known others who prayed and it was never in any way answered. I have seen "christians" like you go after gays, Jews, Mormons, Muslims, and so many others due to thier faith or lifestyles bring "wrong" that it truly makes me ill to hear you speak about the "love of the Father" due to the incredible hypocrasy that surrounds all of you. It makes all of christianity suspect. We have a President who claims that god is on his side and speaks to him, directing him to start wars for no reason against countries that have done nothing to us, we have religious leaders who suck money from people's pockets to fund elaborate lifestyles, we have christians who protest at veteran's funerals in the name of god because this country accepts the "gay lifestyles, and we have every day christian folks who say that they hate the sin (name yout poison here) but love the sinner. You yourself have told people of faith on this very board, people who do pray to your god, that their faith is wrong because it is different from yours (way to show the love). We have all of these things and what does christianity (or any other religion for that matter) really do for anyone. Nothing at all.
          No, he does not exist, he is not real, and prayer does not work. It may make you feel better and it may justify and validate some of your actions but it does not really work. My life is truly fine and not in need of saving, certainly not by the great being in the sky who has never deigned to show a shred of eveidence that he/she exists. If god is there let him show us something, not myths and fairytales but something real and tangible and touchable. If the Messiah were to come to earth today he would be killed or laughed at and locked in a mental ward because he would doubtless try to spread a message of love and tolerence towards all that, ironically enough, would not be tolerated by the religious people of the world.
          As I said, I will change no minds but leave me to my beliefs and I shall leave you to yours.

          • Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 12/12/2007 7:20:21 PM

            eubankk and shaftels2do, excellent posts. Unfortunately though, you will not change these "conservative christian" minds. Trying to convince an evangelical Christian that Christ was not a magical figure would be like trying to convince their Roman/Greek ancestors that Zeus/Jupiter and their pantheon were not really supernatural, or like trying to convince their Norse ancestors that Thor was not real. It will get you nowhere. Best just to chuckle to yourself when you see these ignorant fools waste their time believing their "god" is the one true one. Someday, mankind will look back at Christianity and laugh to himself that people could be so naive, just as Christians look back and laugh at the nature worshippers in ancient England and northern Europe. Mankind's freedom from the mental chains of superstition will come.

            • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 12/13/2007 9:03:23 AM

              Shankardada2 - we can only hope that day will come soon.

        • Posted By: shaftels2do @ 12/11/2007 5:12:35 PM

          I have not stated in my posts what my personal religious affiliation is. That is because it is not pertinent to this discussion, and a private, personal matter. "Funny thing" that a Christian assumed that I am an atheist because I have stated that I am not a Christian, and I have mentioned the right to be an atheist in the USA. I am not an atheist. The need of some Christians to dominate others, as discussed in this article in the realm of public office, is exactly the point I have been making in my posts. Perhaps I am Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, B'hai, Sikh, Rastafari, Muslim, Shinto, Spiritist, or something else, and my "holy book" of moral rules and laws is not the Christian Bible. Why can't I "be" without being told that I should believe what you believe? Isn't that the root of what happened on 9/11/2001? The one common thread is that each religion teaches that it is the one true belief, and that all others are wrong. It's a no-win situation. And our founding fathers knew this when they wrote the Constitution.


          As you know, the Christian Bible states in Matthew 7:1-3
          "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
          For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged,
          and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
          Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye
          and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

          By the way, I am a resident of Massachusetts, and have lived here while Romney was Governor. He came to Massachusetts to get himself elected Governor of a state as a stepping-stone to the White House. His complete turnaround on a number of political issues from governing an overwhelmingly Democratic state to running for President in the Republican Party is nothing short of opportunistic and hypocritical pandering to what he now sees as his voter base. What are his convictions? It seems that depends upon who he wants to vote for him. Has he changed his Mormon convictions and beliefs since leaving the office of Governor of Massachusetts? Did his faith influence him as Governor, when it would have been unpopular in this state? But now he has changed is political positions on a number of issues, and is promoting himself as a Christian to attract voters.

          Take note that in our recent Gubernatorial election, Massachusetts's voters did not elect Romney's Republican Lieutenant Governor who was running for his job. We elected an African-American Democrat, who is also a businessman. I think that speaks volumes about what the people of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts think about Romney's administration.

  • Posted By: Northlite @ 12/10/2007 11:58:52 PM

    I had some discussion with the Romney campaign earlier today. They confirmed that if Mitt is elected, there will be a space for religious designation on the National Security Cards which Homeland Security is preparing. Leaving the space blank will not be an option. It must be filled in with a branch of our Christian religion, as specified in the Constitution, though exceptions will be made for observant believers of other faiths. Certain job postings, particularly those for journalists, and events will be limited to cardholders whose religion is in keeping with our Founding Fathers. There will be a special individualized scale based on still to be selected factors to determine observant people of faith from those merely professing a faith or born into a faith. I was impressed with Mitt's compassion: there was some talk between the Tabernacle and leading Evangelicals about rounding-up atheists, agnostics and impertinent journalists(and possibly gays) and sending them off to re-education camps, but Mitt put the kibosh on that. Nonetheless, he told us that Jesus will be returned to the head table of our nation, as is so clearly spelled out in the Constitution, the Bible, and the Book of Moroni. Go Mitt! We are a Christian Nation. You lead and we will follow. Praise be to Jesus.

    • Posted By: heavensway @ 12/11/2007 6:08:25 PM

      YOU HIT ON A VERY THOUTFUL ITEM WHEN MENTIONING AN ID CARD, I DO KNOW THROUGH MY MANY WORKING YEARS THIS,MORMANS ARE A CLAN ,THEY DEMAND A TITHE TO BE A MEMBER IN GOOD STANDING ,IF LATE/PAST DUE YOU HAVE TO PAY BACK TITHE, THEY KEEP THEIR OWN HUGE WEARHOUSES FULL OF FOODS/NEEDS BUT FOR THEM ONLY, THESE ARE EVEN IN UNDISCLOSED PLACES, IT HAS BEEN SAID IF WE HAVE A FAMINE THE MORMONS WOULD SERVIVE, NOT YOU AND I ,TO THE WORK PLACE ITS KNOWN THEY WILL ONLY IF GIVEN HIRE THEIR OWN, I HAVE SEEN THIS WITH A WHOLE TOWN HEADED BY MORMONS, SO IF MITT GETS IN YOU WILL SEE THEIR MEMBERSHIP GREATLY INCREASE, ITS CALLED SECURITY IVE HAD MANY TELL ME THEY FEEL SECURE FOR THAT ALONE,,,SO YES YOU BLIND WILL FOLLOW,,, ,

      • Posted By: VelLorson @ 12/13/2007 8:58:58 AM

        Nonesense. I have been a Mormon all my life and all my great and some of my great great grandparents were Mormon as well. Heavensway is badly ill informed. Tithing is voluntarily paid. In 52 years of attending Church, I have never once heard of a requirement to pay back tithes if one has not previously tithed. Mormon warehouses are regularly opened at times of disaster to help people of all faiths. None of their locations are secret. Does Heavensway believe that all the employees at Mariott Hotels around the world are Mormon? The business is Mormon owned but employs people of all creeds or none as do most other Mormon businesses. We Mormons are too big of cheapskates to pay the bigotry tax one must pay if one hires on a non-economic basis, hiring a less qualified worker or paying a wage premium for an attribute (religion) that has no bearing on ability to do the job.

    • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 12/11/2007 12:05:24 PM

      Horse****. There may well be plans for a national ID card but do you really think that people are going to stand for the requirement that the religion space be filled out with a christian religion? And that there will be jobs which can ONLY be filled by a member of the correct religion? A sliding scale for faith? TAlk between the tabernacles and evangelicals about rounding people up for re-education camps? Where the hell did you get all of this? NONE of this can or will happen in this country! There are many, many people who would take up arms before they would allow it! This is not a christian nation and never has been and never will be! This is some great propaganda that you have come up with but it is utter and complete horsepucky. These statements (including the "go mitt!") are the very reasons that so many of us feel that christians are out of control and deserving of our comtempt. Christian love indeed, this all sounds like hatred against every group that doen't believe as you do!

  • Posted By: cedarchopr @ 12/13/2007 2:14:40 AM

    After reading Mr. Meacham's article, I am strongly convinced ALL of the Republican candidates suffer from this ongoing controversy handcrafted by the media between Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney. The party has the appearance of being divided about something as fundamental as a candidate???s right to a hold certain religious beliefs, and the media, even Mr. Meacham, continue to fan the flames. It???s such a pity that Huckabee has been drawn in by the repeated questions and requests for commentaries by the media on any religious topic because it only puts him further at odds with Romney on the basis of faith. What a complete mistake! Mike, when you really want to hit a homerun, it???s tempting to swing at every pitch that comes across the plate, but the repeated ???curveball??? questions from the media about this divisive topic will only cause you to strike out. Remember, those with other religious views, such as other Christian faiths, those of the Jewish faith, or Muslims, or Buddhists, and yes, Mr. Meacham, even those who believe that any religious view of any sort is complete foolishness ??? these people are watching you very closely. They will remember that while you were drawn in by religious divisiveness, the Democratic candidates were answering questions about the economy or the war. Please avoid the curveballs! Wait for the right pitch!

    And please, people, let???s use that spellcheck!

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/13/2007 1:24:42 AM

    There are many reasons Mormons will not come forth even though they know of the corruption in the Mormon church. One is due to their belief in Mormon scripture which they associate with the Mormon church. The leadership has usurped power and authority over this scripture. Thus, the members of the Mormon church think that God expects them to support their misguided leaders. This is much the - rationalization that many Americans make about our government. They all know of the corruption, but rationalize that it is unpatriotic to talk against the government or ungrateful to complain when they enjoy superficial prosperity."

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/13/2007 1:24:14 AM

    The Mormon president Ezra Taft Benson (considered a prophet by Mormons) was a fan of the John Birch Society.
    The Taft is Heusen???s name is because Ezra Taft Benson is a descendent of Alphonso Taft, who along with one of the Russell family started the Order of the Skull and Bones (legally it has been known as Russell Trust).

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/13/2007 1:23:22 AM

    Do you know that 80% of the world's capital is owned by 12 families. They already run the world through organizations like the Paris Club; who inturn fund the IMF and World Bank. Look at the power oil companies have on the world. You are confusing conspiracy with reality. You have to prove what you say if not it means nothing. But thank you for your commentary EUB. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft_family-If you go to this website or url, you will notice the development of the Taft family one of the most poweful families in America. Along with a few other families, they were able to establish a number of fraternities which contorl both parties political machinery.

  • Posted By: GiantRobot2 @ 12/12/2007 11:05:47 PM

    Mike Huckabee facts:

    1. He will Eliminate the IRS:
    This means you will receive 100% of your paycheck.

    2. He will drastically reduce Gas prices:
    Switch to alternative fuels, changing supply/demand.

    3. He will reduce global warming.
    Switch to alternative fuels, no carbon dioxides.

    4. He will reduce threat of terrorism.
    New fuels cause middle east gov. crack down on them.

    5. He will reduce rising Health care costs.
    New programs that prevent diseases, not just fix them.

    6. He will lead up not just hard right or hard left.
    Excellent communicator, will bring parties together.

    7. He will lead with principles rather than money.
    He cares everybody not just those on Wall Street.

    8. He will give Hope to America and enthusiasm.
    He plays bass guitar in a band, dynamic personality.

    9. He will carry out his goals, not talk about them.
    Lost 110 pounds, kept it off, ran 4 Marathons-26.2m

    10. He knows the American people is the real boss.
    As Governor, his picture frame only shows citizens.

    Vote for Mike Huckabee, otherwise you will not be able to enjoy these benefits

    Since the other candidates don't have anything to say on what they can do for America, they take the easy road and resort to taking cheap shots at Mike. Don???t fall into their trap any longer with negative attacks, let's show the critics and the naysayers that Americans have pride and we are ready to elect an honest, humble, trustworthy man for US President.

  • Posted By: madest @ 12/12/2007 8:50:25 PM

    Go ahead and ignore Ron Paul. I don't trust you. Your polls were wrong in 2000 and 2004 and they're wrong again. Heap all the hope and praise you can on Huckabee. Only thing he's missing is integrity.

  • Posted By: Madame Degarge @ 12/12/2007 3:24:16 PM

    God help us all, should a Hindu run for president in the future. The MSM and the other candidates would spend half the campaign parsing the Upanishads, looking for gottcha moments, regardless of the unfortunate Hindu???s merits and qualifications.

    The central issue should be competency, fairness, and the ability of the prospective candidate to think outside their religion, rather than to strictly adhere to scriptures written thousands of years ago.

    The ability to solve problems in a rational manner is the key to a successful presidency. As George Bush has so beautifully demonstrated, a ???pipeline to God??? may be the worst possible qualification a candidate can claim.

  • Posted By: Bob Gibson @ 12/12/2007 1:58:29 PM

    I am disappointed that your leading article compares the candidates in terms of their unverifiable religeous speculations. It is also disappointing to read the comments. Are there no substansive issues in this election? When will the American people desert the cloud cuckoo land they presently live in? This kind of rediculous nonesense gave us Bush and all the disasters that came with him. Time for Americans to remove their heads from the dark damp place where they have placed them and face reality

  • Posted By: RealisticOne @ 12/10/2007 12:37:36 PM

    George Bush.
    2nd term as President.
    Man of God and Religion.
    Man of many lies.
    Man of many wars?

    Answer honestly,
    Do you feel safer since he took office?

    I will vote for the candidate who will actually do the right thing, not just talk about doing it.
    Who cares what religion this person might or might not be?

    If your vote goes towards a candidate because or color or religion,
    YOU ARE THE PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY!

    • Posted By: ElliottMMVII @ 12/10/2007 1:22:01 PM

      You don't want to mention that we got to experience 9-11 shortly after GB got into office. Never mind the fact that 9-11 too a long time to plan and execute - and that put the problem with Clinton? Bill had all the girls though - and a nice smile.

      Your "Man of..." peom is catchy and sensationalistic, but falls flat. Yeah, I'm glad he is a religious man. I'm glad he's done what he has to prevent a future 9-11. and yes, he is a man, as any other man, and he has made decisions based on the facts that were presented to him from the advisors and intel that are in place in the government. I am grateful he didn't avoid the issue, do what looked good, and sit back and hope terrorism would go away. Maybe he should have said please? LOL

      On the other hand, I think that your vote should not go to a candidate based SOLELY on race/religion. You should do your homework (how many people do that anymore?) and make an educated decision for yourself. You can NOT judge a person based on color, weight, sex, facial hair or any other trait. Sure, some "religious" people have commited crimes via "the church", but that doesn't make every church-person evil. Ladainian Tomlinson does all sorts of good things for his community even though he is an NFL star. That doesn't makes all NFL players good or bad - and it doesn't make all black people good or bad. All people are different. You may clump groups of people together to make your decision-making easier, but you just might throw out a good candidate for a bad reason.

      There are a lot of problems in this country. I think the biggest one is that it has been too great and too successful - and now it is losing its heart. All of this success has made people lazy and dependent. "What can the government do for me?" "The government is doing everything wrong." Well, Americans voted for the government and the people in it. You want more help? You will vote it in, and they will tax you to pay for it. Then you will cut defense spending to help pay for your laziness and complain about the next 9-11. Everybody wants something for nothing. It just doesn't work that way - and never will. With more and more "entitled" people, the people who are working and paying the taxes are becoming more and more burdened. It can't last forever. And if we get lazy with security again, we will be stung again. Just like in our country, pelpe outside our country ahte our success and freedom because they don't have it.

      Wow. Too much to write here... Good luck and God speed, America - you need it.

      • Posted By: RealisticOne @ 12/10/2007 5:13:40 PM

        Sorry, the "poem" might sound flat because it wasn't meant to be a poem.
        But, since you brought up who is at fault for 9-11, let's examine this a little further.

        Our present President probably didn't even know who Osama bin Laden at the time, heck,, when he found out who he was, he attacked Afghanistan, couln't find him quick enough, so he thought he'd turn our attention elswhere. He made up some lies and started a war in another country called Iraq. Funny how everything we went to war for was actually a lie from an honest christian politician.

        Clinton, yep, it must have been his fault, he had his chance to take him out, and blew it, so let's blame him!
        Funny how we can try to impeach a guy for lying about sex, but to start a war on lies, have tens of thousands of people killed, and you're a hero?

        I wonder, who was president before Clinton? Oh yeah, Bush Sr., could he be at fault? He was the head of the CIA before he was Vice President, he might have known who Bin Laden was, ya think?

        Oh yeah, there was Ronald Reagan, with an ex Central Intelligence Agency Vice President, Mr. Bush Sr.. If I remember correctly, these two guys were responsible for arming Osama Bin Laden and teaching him to fight. These guys were smart, couldn't be their fault either, huh?

        So, was it Mr. Clintons fault all by himself? Or could these other whack jobs we've had for presidents have something to do with it too? Go ahead, you know the truth, you can say it, we all know too.

        Every president since after Jimmy Carter left has had his hand diped into some part of the blame for 9-11, but they are all guilty of lining their pockets with BIG business, and the "churhes" are the biggest businesses in the world, and are all part of the problem when it comes to politics.

        So, when do you think Osama started his planning? My bet would be before we even started arming him.
        On another note, who aremed Saddam? Go ahead, you can say it, they know, LOL.
        Yeah, vote for the one who

        • Posted By: t9900 @ 12/10/2007 11:22:40 PM

          I support Reagan's decision to arm Bin laden 100%, no one could of predicted 9/11 in the 80s and the Soviets were much more of a threat at the time. Try to imagine a world if the Soviets won in Afghanistan?
          No blame should be placed on Reagan, however the blame should be placed forwards Clinton and Bush. More torwards Clinton becuase he had several good chances to kill him and didn't because he didn't want to harm his oil friends.

          • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 12/11/2007 12:33:41 PM

            The Soviets were NEVER the threat they were made out to be! Imagine a world if they had won in Afghanistan? How was the world drastically changed after they won in Vietnam? It WASN"T!!! Clinton did not want to harm his oil friends? Who do you think you are kidding? Or are you just terribly deluded? The Bush family has far more oil friends than Clinton EVER had adn they have not even tried to kill BinLaden! They let him get away time and again. You neo-cons slay me.

            • Posted By: t9900 @ 12/12/2007 10:16:16 AM

              Ah you need a drastic history/geography lesson. And some lessons on tolerance, something you have proved you have none of torwards Christianity or people you don't agree with in pretty much every other comment you have made me. Lets start from the begining. The world didn't change after Vietnam becuase well the Soviets were not fighting. Yes they backed the commies with weapons but they din't have a large amount of forces there or couldn't spread their influence militarily becuase they didn't station forces there. However in Afghanistan, the Soviets were using thier army and could spread the military if they won. and what is bordering Afghanistan? The middleast. And what does the middle east have much more of then SE Asia? Oil. Yes the world would be a lot different if they won.
              Now to move on. Yes Bush has oil friends and thanks for proving that your hate torwards him overshadows you logic. It doesn't matter if the Bush family has more oil friends than clinton but it had nothing to do with what i just said. Your so called good President Clinton has oil firends too, no matter how much you wish it wasn't. And Clinton had many chances to kill Osama. The Bush family had far less. Osama could have been cruised up the *** long ago by Clinton but he didn't want to harm our so called Saudi prince friends. (Why were are so called allies were visiting him is beyond me)
              This comment by you just hit the nail on the head. You intolerance torwards Christians, Conservatives, and Republicans and you ignorance and blind hatred is dividing us faster than slavery was.

          • Posted By: RealisticOne @ 12/11/2007 12:19:48 PM

            I agree that we could not have foreseen 9/11 in the 80's, but we did create a monster.
            I was just trying to make a point that blame goes far beyond one administration.

            Politicians + Big Business + Religion = Trouble

            These three things listed above are wonderful seperate, but together they are destroying this counties focus and future.

            Lobbyists should be outlawed, and our politicians who take their bribes should be procecuted.
            If Big Business put the money it (legally) bribes our politicians with (lobbying), and put it towards paying taxes, this would be a start.

            If the Church wants to play a part in the politics in this country, well then let's tax them too!

            When will we all get our heads out of our butts and realize that our future is in serious jeapardy?
            We need to take this country back to the people and stop trying to please everyone, please the ones who actually deserve it!

            If we keep letting our politicians take legal bribes, we will only bring our self destruction closer.
            By the way, Jesus didn't say that, I did, LOL.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/12/2007 9:05:51 AM

    Do you know that 80% of the world's capital is owned by 12 families. They already run the world through organizations like the Paris Club; who inturn fund the IMF and World Bank. Look at the power oil companies have on the world. You are confusing conspiracy with reality. You have to prove what you say if not it means nothing. But thank you for your commentary EUB. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft_family-If you go to this website or url, you will notice the development of the Taft family one of the most poweful families in America. Along with a few other families, they were able to establish a number of fraternities which contorl both parties political

  • Posted By: Evolutionist @ 12/12/2007 7:46:55 AM

    Althogh these guys are a bunch of religious hypocrites,....Anyone but Hilary '08 and of course Obama Bin Laden should not even have a chance into becoming president.

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