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Disparate Doctrines: Two Faiths in Conflict

The tension between evangelicals and Mormons is as old as the Mormon Church itself. While the two religions share similarly conservative social values, their beliefs clash when it comes to some of the most fundamental aspects of Christianity. The critical differences:

NEWSWEEK
Dec 17, 2007 Issue

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  • Posted By: Happy in America @ 01/12/2008 2:50:36 PM

    Comment: To Cyberella: The devil always gets a free pass. LOL. Just a joke, but on a more serious note, they attack mormons who they know won't ever retaliate because they do live their chirstian values, but can you imagine the uproar in the muslim world and all over this country if anybody dares to comment on Obama s religious belief. Even though we have freedom of speech, there are certain topics in which we are certainly gagged by political correctness in this country. And african-americans and muslims are 2 of them and Obama is both, can you imagine? I do believe there are many good muslim people living their religion the best they know how, but mind you, there are a lot of radical muslims out there ready to murder their fellow beings to gain paradise. Anyways, a candidate s religion should not be a consideration for his running for office, but why do people are so bother by mormons who are quite nice, kind people, living their standards, just because they don't not agree with their beliefs. If they evangelicals worry about doctrine, why are they not worry about muslims running for office? I don't know what kind of Muslimis Obama whether he is a main stream muslim or a radical, but live the Romeny alone because he's a mormon and if you are going to questions candidates belief then be fait, let s talk about Obama and see what his beliefs are all about. The evangelicals prcticallly made Romeny address whether he believed in Christ and whether his church leadership would have any bearings on his decisions were he to be elected. Maybe they should be asking Obama about that too. Fairnes to all.

  • Posted By: cyberella @ 01/07/2008 11:49:54 AM

    Comment: Many of Reagan's advisors were Morman. The Mormon/ Christian religion is not the problem here. Islam is the problem- and the major Democratic candidate is getting a pass on this.

  • Posted By: Nate1991 @ 01/03/2008 10:49:50 PM

    Comment: Mormon Doctrines that go against the Bible:

    -Multiple gods (Doctrine and Covenants 132:37)
    The Bible says:
    Isaiah 43:10
    .......I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
    1 Tim. 2:5
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    2 Samuel 7:22
    Wherefore thou art great, O Lord God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

    -Multiple heavens
    The Bible says:
    John 3:36
    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    There are 2 paths- see Revelation 20:25(those not in Book of Life- Lake of fire) and 21:23, 21:27, and 22:5 (for those in the Book of Life- with God forever)

    -Full salvation requires more than faith in Christ (temple marriage, baptism, etc. needed for highest level of Celestial Kingdom)
    Bible says:
    Ephes. 2:8
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Acts 16:31
    And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
    Galatians 2:21
    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    -Polygamy (doctrine and covenants 132:61-62)
    Bible says:
    1 Tim. 3:2
    A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; see also 3:12.

    -Preexistence
    Bible says:
    1 Cor. 15:44-46
    It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. [45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. [46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


    Mormonism doesn't go against "evangelicals". It goes against what the Holy Bible -proven time and time again by archaeology, history, science, and prophesy- says. I don't see how LDS people call themselves say that they are also Christians who believe the Bible.

  • Posted By: A Blessing4u @ 01/03/2008 9:50:20 AM

    Comment: I would like to say this, I would have rather lived my life knowing that one day i will have made it to heaven, because i choose to be a follower of Christ... living a sanctified lifestyle, than to fine out there is truly a hell and i will spend eternity there because i choose to live a life contrary to the will of God.
    The only reason i see that peole make excuses for man ('not being perfect') is that we don't want to be covicted or have a guilty concious...and we all do from time to time. Our pride want allow us to admit that we are wrong in own vain twisted thoughts and lifestyles and we do need a Savior.
    The problem is the is no one is worthy enough to save me from myself, forgive me and wash me from my sins, and through willful obedience and faith in Christ obtain eternal salvation. No one could do that for man-kind except Christ.
    God creating man is not a show of imperfection on His part...., but mastery. That "beings" that are not terestrial or angelical could choose, could think, make rational decision- Nearly 95% of things that has happened to man has been because of his own pride and willful dis-obedience. We that are christians and non-christian know that there are forces and intities out there that are far greater than ourselves, This epic battle of good versus evil, cops verus robbers....... It's in the cartoons, it's in the movies. No one in the secular world wants to admit. The Bible for all the complaints out there........... The movies and cartoons are stimulated by it (Bible)even if it's twisted and taken out of context... We all know the truth and the infallibilty of the scriptures... For neary every prophecy from Old to New Testament has been fulfilled. We have recieved warning after warning..... That the day is at hand. We are always saying that we want some sign............ That's a lie!!!! We have been given signs and even heard about them, but are a stiffnecked people and refuse truth even when it's right in our face.

  • Posted By: Balance @ 12/31/2007 8:06:01 PM

    Comment: Faith without works is dead. Both faith and works are required to receive salvation in the Lord's kingdom. That is what mormons believe.

  • Posted By: Balance @ 12/31/2007 8:04:50 PM

    Comment: Faith without works is dead. Both are required to receive salvation in the Lord's kingdom. This is what Mormons believe.

  • Posted By: Balance @ 12/31/2007 7:51:47 PM

    Comment:

  • Posted By: blueboy @ 12/26/2007 4:59:15 PM

    Comment: coretheology and other similar posts ar so much alike. A doctrine that never requires people to live up to any of the Lord's standards and everyone gets a pass on conduct just by their faith or belief without action is a sorry, rickety way of life.

    It is kind of the same idea as saying to our war enemies "We are so much better than you and we would never practice anything like torture--but we will anyway, because all is forgiven with a little profession of faith."

    That dog don't hunt. That is the problem with evangelicals, and I was raised as one. They just don't live it.

  • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 12/22/2007 10:27:04 AM

    Comment: Sadly, much of this discussion has deteriorated into ???my good works are better than your good works???. Such is the arguments of children.

    God wants a people of faith, not of works. This theme is constant throughout the Old Testament and New Testament.

    Read Numbers 21:4-8. What did the people have to do to be saved? This is an echo ??? a foreshadow ??? of things to come in God???s dealing with people. The companion verses are John 3:1-16. What must we do to be saved?

    I do not argue over who does what; faith is not to be reduced to a beauty contest.

    Christianity ??? Biblical Christianity ??? teaches salvation by faith alone. In Christianity God saves man.

    Works-based religions (including Mormonism) teach that man must do things ??? be God???s helpers you might say ??? and ???earn??? salvation. Thus, in all other religions, man saves man.

    Faith in God or faith in man. The choice is yours, but be careful which you choose. Your choice has eternal consequences.

  • Posted By: traviso99 @ 12/21/2007 9:43:47 PM

    Comment: Yseult, terryis and JYoung...thank you all for helping me better understand the scripture. I appreciate the posts by each of you and am thankful for the time you invested (well, I hope!) in reading my post, and your well-thought-out responses. Sorry I took off into left field with my post, and I hope it was more than just a waste of your time. I tend to ramble...
    I hope for and have faith we can all work together to make the world a better place, regardless of our belief systems/structures. You each help me believe this is possible.

  • Posted By: Indifference is the essence of inhumanity @ 12/20/2007 10:27:14 PM

    Comment: First of all, I don't believe in judging other people because of their faith. There are many good people in the world trying to do the right thing...whether they be Mormon, Protestant, Catholic, or whatever. I'm not saying that just because someone is Christian means that they are perfect. That is far from the truth. People are not perfect, but many of us are trying to become better. I certainly don't believe in bringing religion into deciding who the best candidate for office is. For those who believe that Mitt Romney is a poor choice solely because of his religion, I would advise those people to go and research his religion on their own as opposed to believing all of the lies out there about the LDS church.

    Second, I agree completely with Yseult and terry1s. God is not imperfect, and by creating man as imperfect beings He gave us the chance to become like Him...IF we live a good life on earth. I find it very disturbing that some people believe that to be saved all you have to do is have a good relationship with Christ. It makes me frightened for the world in which our children will be brought up in.


  • Posted By: Yseult @ 12/19/2007 7:17:37 PM

    Comment: Amen to the last post. Also I want to correct my previous post. Helpmeet does not mean "same as or equal to" as I originally said. It means "Even with or equal to". I apologize for that error.

  • Posted By: terry1s @ 12/19/2007 5:51:22 PM

    Comment: God creating man as an imperfect being is not proof that God made a mistake. It is only proof that perfection is a process which takes work. One does not arrive at perfection just by being created that way. Man would never have learned anything if that were the case. God loves his children and therefore wants us to gain knowledge.

  • Posted By: Yseult @ 12/19/2007 2:56:31 PM

    Comment: Regarding the comments by travis099...God made man imperfect so we could learn, grow and change from our experiences. It doesn't make God imperfect or fallible. It makes him wise. Regarding Eve, you are right that many churches have used her story to subjugate women. If they understood her divine and necessary role in the Fall then they would not use her story as an excuse to do evil to women. In the LDS church Eve is respected. It was necessary that The Fall take place to bring mortality to man...and indeed that mankind could exist (we believe Adam and Eve could not have had children in the Garden being innocent and immortal). Also, some use the term "helpmeet" (Eve was a helpmeet to Adam) to treat women as less than men. A correct translation of the word indicates that a helpmeet is "the same as or equal to". So we can see that Eve was to be an equal partner in her relationship with Adam.

  • Posted By: Yseult @ 12/19/2007 2:49:46 PM

    Comment: Regarding the post by travis099....God made us imperfect so we would learn, grow and change from experiences as a mortal being on a mortal earth. It doesn't make God imperfect or fallible. He did this out of wisdom. If we were made perfect we'd have little to no understanding. Regarding Eve...I agree that many churches use the story of Eve to subjugate women. If they understood her relevant and necessary role they would not use the story to do evil against women. The Fall of Adam and Eve was necessary in order that man be made mortal and that people could be born into the world...Eve is respected in my church for that role. Plus, she was made as a "helpmeet" for Adam. Some use that word as an excuse to say that women should be less than a man but a correct translation of the word indicates someone "the same as or equal to". Eve was an equal partner in her relationship with Adam.

  • Posted By: JYoung9904 @ 12/19/2007 10:55:21 AM

    Comment: Quote from "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis (non-Mormon), bottom of page 176.

    "The command Be Ye Perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were "gods" and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him - for we can prevent Him, if we choose - He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (through, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

  • Posted By: traviso99 @ 12/18/2007 10:22:36 PM

    Comment: @ Have a cuddle
    I like cuddles, by the way. I dig your name.
    I'm not Muslim, Mormon, Christian, any of the above. If I can be pigeonholed, I'm a Deist (I know, evangelicals...a pagan. I'm going to Hell. Boy, if I had a nickel...)
    I believe there IS a God, but in what form I can't say. I don't necessarily believe He's sitting up there on a cloud watching my every move, a 'magic man' in the sky, judging on a whim.
    I don't consider Jesus to be my savior. Last time I checked, he doesn't do my jobs for me, pay my mortgage or raise my kids. I HOPE he's out there, and HOPE he's divine...but if he is, I'm sure he has much more important things to do. There are people still being sold on stage after all. In the 21st Century! Can you believe it?!? Regardless, I'm not dropping everything I'm doing to try to convince you one way or the other. I simply haven't the time--busy living life over here, in the manner in which I believe He would want me to. WWJD and all that (although I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't pay 7 bucks for a keychain).

    I've known many (self-proclaimed) Christians, many of them truly good people. I don't fault or judge them for what I consider to be their narrow-mindedness or their presumptuous attitudes (ooops, there I go judging...I better stop that) toward the rest of us who don't believe the words in their book are infallible. Having said that, I've also met many (self-proclaimed) Christians who are 'exclusive bigoted jerks, killing those they didn't like and believing that's what God wants them to be/do (paraphrasing your description).
    Fact is, it's much easier to preach it than it is to live it. I find that, more often than not, this is what many people do. It's truly a shame.
    I refuse to acknowledge I was a sinner out of the womb for whose eternal sins Jesus was brutally murdered. I have enough on my plate living day to day, taking care of my brother (metaphorically), living a character life, treating others as if my grandmother were looking over my shoulder, and doing my best to raise my children to do the same. I refuse to apologize for a mistake God made in creating a fallible creature. If man is not perfect, his Creator is capable of mistakes. I am responsible for my own actions/mistakes, but not those of an error-prone deity. I'm not Adam so I'm not going to stand trial for his actions. He (and Eve, let???s not forget Eve! The basis many churches use for subjugating women!) ate the apple. I like apples too, but I wasn???t even there that day.
    (3 parter, con't below)

  • Posted By: traviso99 @ 12/18/2007 10:19:38 PM

    Comment: The best I can be is the best I can be--husband, father, citizen. To suggest I am responsible to shoulder the sins of others is pushing the buck. Do no harm, I say. And I apply that to other consenting adults as well. Those who DO harm to others must accept their consequences and suffer the punishment. Those who murder, rape, molest children, etc, have no place in our society and must be removed for the good of society (I have no problem with the death penalty, as long as guilt is beyond a doubt. Let???s start with those who acknowledge responsibility or are caught red-handed, then work our way through the rest by giving them a FAIR TRIAL). Those who kill or harm to protect others will have their day in court (as do the rest). Those who do not, however, may or may not be judged when they become wormfood (the jury's still out on whether a soul proceeds beyond, in my humble opinion). It is not my place to judge those...consequently, I will NOT (caps fully intentional) be judged for my private actions that aren't considered acceptable by "God's laws I read in a book" regardless of the title on the cover.
    Allow me to be clear---I'm not attacking Christianity or any other belief system. I'm merely drawing a line--keep your filthy paws off my silky drawahs (yeah, a Grease reference...sue me. Have a sense of humor.) I won't attack yours, you don't attack mine. You don't tell me I'm going to Hell, I won't assure you your kind is already making THIS Hell.
    (con't below)

  • Posted By: traviso99 @ 12/18/2007 10:12:53 PM

    Comment: con't from above

    I'm not trying to be a god, nor do I care to be. Just the best man I can be. The best father. The best husband. Not perfect, mind you...there's only one fella in history who had that reputation and you saw what they did to Him! Poor guy...I sure hope Christians are right and He IS the son of God. Cause he sure got persecuted for it.
    Mark Twain (again, paraphrasing) said he???s sure that if Jesus came back today, there???s one thing he???s certain he wouldn???t be???a Christian.
    Granted, many others were treated the same, or worse. And still are.
    Maybe everyone should sit back a minute, take a deep breath, and have a cuddle. It can't possibly make the world a worse place, can it?
    I'm going to go cuddle my wife and kids...and tomorrow I'll get up and continue to do my part to make the world a better place. I'll begin by not hating anyone, whether they're different from me or not, in words, beliefs or deeds unless they (mess with kids...those nimrods are going DOWN) or harm others. I'll continue to try to make every interaction with another person a positive one. And I'll continue to teach my children to do so as well.
    I ask that you do the same...but I won't force it on you. I won't insist you're not a good person if you don't. And I won't tell you that you're going to Hell.
    I will say this: If you're going to preach it, LIVE IT. No more passing the buck. Step up and be a man (or woman). Quit forcing your belief system down my throat.
    I'm not a Mormon, nor do I care to be. But I'll say I think you have a good thing going. Y'all LIVE IT. Missionary service. Help your brother. Etc etc. I admire your level of faith.
    I wish I shared that level of faith in something other than myself. But I???m pretty happy the way I am.

  • Posted By: have_a_cuddle @ 12/18/2007 6:37:06 PM

    Comment: Whoops! I slipped into all-caps. I wasn't angry or anything....so, uh, ignore that bit. Lol.

  • Posted By: have_a_cuddle @ 12/18/2007 6:29:10 PM

    Comment: Hey guys : )
    I'm a Muslim, so I probably don't have any right to comment, but I found some things in the Mormon belief system exceptionally comforting. Evangelical Christians apparently believe they can do whatever they want and still get into heaven as long as they have faith--which is highly disturbing when one thinks of the consequences. By that logic one could go along being the most exclusive, bigoted jerk of all time, killing those they didn't like, and still be on God's good side as long as they were 'pals' with Jesus. With mORMONISM ONE HAS TO ACTUALLY BE A GOOD PERSON TO FIND A GOOD PLACE IN HEAVEN.

    • Posted By: Nate1991 @ 01/03/2008 23:13:39

      Comment: No one is a good person. ( Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; ) We're all sinners. That's why Jesus died in our place. (John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. )

  • Posted By: JYoung9904 @ 12/18/2007 6:03:24 PM

    Comment: Quote from "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck, M.D. (non-Mormon), bottom of page 269.

    "If we postulate that our capacity to love, this urge to grow and evolve, is somehow "breathed into" us by God, then we must ask to what end. Why does God want us to grow? What are we growing toward? Where is the end point, the goal of evolution? What is it that God wants of us? It is not my intention here to become involved in theological niceties, and I hope the scholarly will forgive me if I cut through all the ifs, ands, and butts of proper speculative theology. For no matter how much we may like to pussyfoot around it, all of us who postulate a loving God and really think about it eventually come to a single terrifying idea: God wants us to become Himself (or Herself or Itself). We are growing toward godhood. God is the goal of evolution. It is God who is the source of the evolutionary force and God who is the destination. That is what we mean when we say that He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end."

  • Posted By: traviso99 @ 12/16/2007 1:30:49 PM

    Comment: Core theology:

    Mormonism is a cult, if you define cult as "Any religious group that deviates from orthodox teachings of historic Christianity, while claiming to be "true Christians" by way of some special revelation or privilege". There are lots of cults out there, Mormonism being one.

    Sure, maybe by YOUR church's definition.
    John Jay said "REAL Christians will abstain from violating the rights of others."
    Jacob Henry said "Governments only concern the actions and conduct of man, and not his
    speculative notions. Who among us feels himself so exalted above his fellows as to have a right to dictate to them any mode of belief?"

    I pose the same question to you. Do you feel so exalted above your fellows as to have a right to dictate to them your mode of belief? Or to suggest your way is the right way and theirs is the wrong?

    Fact is, though, regardless how you answer that question---whether you're Christian, Mormon, Jew, Muslim...there is only ONE God. There may be different interpretations of His word, but there is only ONE. For you to suggest otherwise is blasphemy.
    SINNER.

    Ahhhh, Christians (and Mormons and Muslims, etc etc) are SO quick to judge. Passing judgment is not your role, sinner. Perhaps to humble yourself is the best remedy.

    It is so much easier to preach it than it is to live it.

  • Posted By: traviso99 @ 12/16/2007 11:49:16 AM

    Comment: I find it comical that the religious backgrounds and denominations play such a big part in y'all's determination on who the best candidate for office is. Oh, to go back to the good ol' days...not 50 years ago, of course, but back to the Founding Fathers, the majority of whom did NOT believe in the judgments proscribed by most Christian churches (regardless of whose teachings you subscribe) and had no intention of having "In God We Trust" on every dollar printed by our treasury. What a buncha hokey. Do your research, vote your conscience. It's a heckuva lot easier to preach it than it is to LIVE it.
    You want a work of literature to help you decide for whom you should place your vote? Try the Constitution.
    "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It
    neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson

  • Posted By: LDS-tkl @ 12/16/2007 1:01:34 AM

    Comment: For those who would like to know what The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints believes go directly to the source. You can ask some missionaries (most are in white shirts and ties and have a black name tag on), you could go to LDS.org, or you could talk to any of your friends or associates who are members. In our last worldwide meeting one of the apostles of the Church addressed many of the subjects that were brought up in this article and in these posts. Here is a link to what he said: http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-775-9,00.html. If you would rather watch it, here is a link to a page where you can choose a video format: http://lds.org/conference/sessions/display/0,5239,23-1-775,00.html. The address that I am referring to is titled "Faith, Family, Facts, and Fruits" by Elder M. Russell Ballard. I would hope that any sincere seeker of knowledge would take the time to go straight to the source for accurate information as opposed to going to someone else.

  • Posted By: vonngirl @ 12/16/2007 12:49:43 AM

    Comment: The Salvation excerpt here isn't quite correct. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that ALL men will receive salvation from physical death. Those who accept the Savior's atonement and show a true change of heart (by repenting of their sins as is taught in the Bible) will also receive salvation from spiritual death, or in other words, they will be allowed to re-enter God's presence (as man was thrust out of God's pre

    • Posted By: vonngirl @ 12/16/2007 01:23:55

      Comment: (Sorry, I can't figure out how to edit my first comment ??? so please allow me to resume: .... as man was thrust out of God's presence). Exaltation is different from Salvation - Exaltation is what the article here defines as being judged according to our actions and behavior here on earth (how closely we followed the Savior's perfect example). To summarize: Physical Salvation from death (or the resurrection in which the body and the spirit are reunited again, never to be separated again) is available to all of God's children regardless of whether they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior or not. Spiritual Salvation (or being able to be in God???s presence again) is available to any of God???s children who fully accept the Atonement of Jesus Christ ??? his suffering that allowed us to receive a remission of our sins. Now this is where there is a difference between Evangelicals and Mormons ??? Evangelicals would say that all you need is to have a relationship with Jesus Christ and accept him as your Savior. Mormons also say that you need to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and accept him as your Savior ??? but accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior is more than just saying, ???I believe??? ??? it is having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, having a change of heart - turning away from your sins to do them no more, and it is also receiving baptism by immersion to receive a remission of your sins and then receiving the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Just being baptized and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ does not automatically guarantee that you will return to God???s presence, however, for being mortal and imperfect, we will continue to sin ??? therefore we must continue to repent of our sins as we recognize them ??? calling upon the name of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from our sins and to forgive us of our transgressions.

  • Posted By: DLounsbury @ 12/15/2007 10:10:31 PM

    Comment: Your quotes of early Mormon leaders is surprising in this regard--they only attacked the doctrine and not the folks who caused them so much grief. This shows a true spirit of forgiveness as Christian ministers were behind the vitriol and mob violence that resulted in early Mormon settlers being kicked out of their homes in three states, murdered and raped. Efforts at government redress resulted in more violence with Governor Boggs of Missouri passed the infamous "extermination order" giving citizens permission to shoot a Mormon no site. I am unaware of any Christian minister who opposed this law. I notice your qoutes are about a hundred years old. Mormons for the most part have moved on. Many of those who say "Lord Lord" and say they are Christians continue to fight Mormonism. Contrary to the approach of Jesus to teach a proactive, non critical gospel, they go negative as did the pharisees and the saducees. It is so sad when we should be mutually aligned against the evil in the world.

  • Posted By: lgcole100 @ 12/15/2007 5:25:53 PM

    Comment: guess what - they're both stupid asses - why ? - because all organized religion - not spirituality -
    is poppycock !

    • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 12/15/2007 19:57:39

      Comment: Clearly from the mouth of a TRUE intellectual.

      • Posted By: Indifference is the essence of inhumanity @ 12/20/2007 22:44:56

        Comment: Amen to that

  • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 12/15/2007 10:19:26 AM

    Comment: Why the tension between the two churches, Christian and Mormon? Some direct quotes from Mormonism might prove illuminative.

    Official Mormon teachings about orthodox Christianity include:

    "...all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." - Joseph Smith

    "We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense...the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century" - John Taylor (Brigham Young's successor)

    "All other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives Baptism, or the Lord's Supper from their hands will highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people" - Orson Pratt, Mormon apostle

    ???The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God.??? ??? Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171

    ???With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world??? ??? Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199

    ???Behold there are save two churches only: the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.??? -Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10

    • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 12/15/2007 13:25:55

      Comment: Recognize that these comments, with the exception of the scriptural reference, came in the midst of intense persecution of the mormons by the self proclaimed "Christians". The took from the Mormons all that they had, they chased them from state to state, they murdered them (including Joseph Smith), and a "Christian" govenor signed into a law a declaration calling for the extermination of all Mormons.

      When one reads these comments fully understanding the context of the times in which they were delivered, they really don't seem all that mysterious to me.

      The true doctrine of Mormonism is that most folks (so called Christians included) will have the benefit of the Grace of God and make it to heaven. Evangelicals are quick to point out that anyone not meeting their precise definition of Christian is going to hell.

      It is a peculiar belief to me. To think that God's grace is sufficient for one who murders, but choses to join your church, but that it isn't sufficient for someone who lives a faithful, Christ fearing life, but somehow couldn't quite get the definition of the eternal nature of Jesus quite right.

  • Posted By: babar8675309 @ 12/14/2007 2:41:26 PM

    Comment: Some similarities between Mormon and Evangelical beliefs: We are all children of God, Brother and Sisters of a Supreme Being. We believe Jesus is the Redeemer of mankind and through His sacrifice and resurrection we can be saved. We believe in loving God, and our neighbor. We believe in helping those less fortunate an thanking God for our blessings. We believe in the ten commandments. We believe marriage


    We believe marriage is ordained of God and is strictly between a man and a woman and that homosexuality is a sin in the sight of God. We believe in not doing drugs and getting drunk. We believe in morality and saving the sexual experience for marriage.
    The press will go on and on about differences between the two faiths because the conflict will sell for papers and is more intriguing to the average person. If we stop and think - Evangelicals and Mormons have more in common than most people will ever give credit in the press. Politically speaking, we hold true almost all of the same beliefs and values.

    • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 12/14/2007 15:49:48

      Comment: Thanks for that post. For all of the differences between Mormons and evangelicals there are far more similarities.

  • Posted By: babar8675309 @ 12/14/2007 2:40:11 PM

    Comment: Some similarities between Mormon and Evangelical beliefs: We are all children of God, Brother and Sisters of a Supreme Being. We believe Jesus is the Redeemer of mankind and through His sacrifice and resurrection we can be saved. We believe in loving God, and our neighbor. We believe in helping those less fortunate an thanking God for our blessings. We believe in the ten commandments. We believe marriage is ordained of God and is strictly between a man and a woman and that homosexuality is a sin in the sight of God. We believe in not doing drugs and getting drunk. We believe in morality and saving the sexual experience for marriage.
    The press will go on and on about differences between the two faiths because the conflict will sell for papers and is more intriguing to the average person. If we stop and think - Evangelicals and Mormons have more in common than most people will ever give credit in the press. Politically speaking, we hold true almost all of the same beliefs and values.

  • Posted By: mickisdaddy @ 12/14/2007 8:53:17 AM

    Comment: 1 Cor 8:5-6
    5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
    6 But to us there is but one aGod, the bFather, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one cLord Jesus Christ, by whom are dall things, and we by him

    Matthew 22:29-30 does not say that they are neither "married" nor given in marriage. It says they are neither "marry" nor are given in marriage. Marital status is decided prior to this point.

  • Posted By: mickisdaddy @ 12/14/2007 8:50:27 AM

    Comment: Matthew 22:29-30
    For in the aresurrection they neither bmarry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the cangels of God in heaven

    It does not say that they are not married.

    1 Cor 8:5-6
    5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are dall things, and we by him

  • Posted By: MCHAM231 @ 12/14/2007 7:27:41 AM

    Comment: If the Pharisees of the New testament could take it upon thenselves to declare that Jesus is not the Messiah, then any group has the right to continue that legacy and state that members of the CHURCH of Jesus Christ are not christian.

  • Posted By: Annie Reader @ 12/14/2007 1:24:33 AM

    Comment: I hope this comparison is more accurate about Mormonism than it is about evangelical Christiainity. A "heartfelt faith" in Christ as the basis for salvation is either an evasion or a misunderstanding of what evangelical Christians believe. Yes, faith in Christ is required, but the real point is that salvation requires God's forgiveness and that the only way to get that is through faith in Jesus, who paid the price for the sins of mankind when He died on the cross. Just believing in Christ as a great teacher who happens to be the son of God and praying directly to Him would miss the point. Also, evangelical Christianity has no prohibitions, per se. Evangelicals look to the Bible for what is right and wrong. They do not follow any church-made rules.

    • Posted By: bigjohn @ 12/16/2007 06:46:14

      Comment: Dear Annie Reader,

      I'm a Mormon and am genuinely interested in your interpretation of the Trinity. I've studied world religions including Christianity, Buddhism, Shinto, Islam, etc. Where does your belief in the Trinity come from and how and where is it supported in the Holy Bible?

      P.S. No Mormon or any child of God will ever return to His presence except through the grace of Jesus Christ after all we can do. In short, we have faith in Jesus Christ, repent, are baptized, receive the Holy Ghost and then "endure to the end by giving it our best effort. Only after doing all that we can do, repenting of our shortcomings, and enduring to the end are we enabled to return to the presence of Heavenly Father through the grace of Jesus Christ. Without grace, no child of God, including any Mormon, will be able to return to God's presence regardless of how good they were on earth.

    • Posted By: bigjohn @ 12/16/2007 06:40:03

      Comment: Dear Annie Reader,

      I'm a Mormon and am genuinely interested in your interpretation of the Trinity. I've studied world religions including Christianity, Buddhism, Shinto, Islam, etc. Where does your belief in the Trinity come from and how and where is it supported in the Holy Bible?

      P.S. No Mormon or any child of God will ever return to His presence except through the grace of Jesus Christ after all we can do. In short, we have faith in Jesus Christ, repent, are baptized, receive the Holy Ghost and then "endure to the end by giving it our best effort. Only after doing all that we can do, repenting of our shortcomings, and enduring to the end are we enabled to return to the presence of Heavenly Father through the grace of Jesus Christ. Without grace, no child of God, including any Mormon, will be able to return to God's presence regardless of how good they were on earth.

  • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 12/13/2007 11:11:44 PM

    Comment: Mormonism is a cult, if you define cult as "Any religious group that deviates from orthodox teachings of historic Christianity, while claiming to be "true Christians" by way of some special revelation or privilege". There are lots of cults out there, Mormonism being one.

    Christians and Mormons worship two DIFFERENT Gods.

    Here are a few differences between what Christians and Mormons believe:
    1Mormon ??? God was once a man like us.
    1Christian ??? God was, is, and always will be God.

    2Mormon ??? Many Gods, an unknown number of them
    2Christian ??? One God. Isaiah 44 ???I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God???Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any.???

    3Mormon ??? Salvation by grace AND works 2 Nephi 25:23
    3Christian ??? Salvation by faith alone. Many verses, one example Ephesians 2:8-9

    4Mormon ??? Men become Gods, have a marriage and children in Heaven
    4Christian ??? ???Men become Gods??? is blasphemy. Jesus said we will be neither married nor given in marriage in Heaven. Matthew 22:29-30

    Mormons and Christians worship a different Jesus as well:

    The Jesus of the Bible: Co-Eternal with God, without beginning or end.

    The Jesus of Mormonism: Created by a God, who was himself also created. At one time this Jesus was not, then, having been created by God, became. This Jesus is thus less than God.

    Each religion has a different Jesus, and a different God. One is Christian, one is clearly not.

    • Posted By: vonngirl @ 12/16/2007 00:58:06

      Comment: I read that Evangelicals believe the Catholic church to be a "cult". Is this true? Because according to your definition of a "cult" it is: "any religious group that deviates from orthodox teachings of historic Christianity". I daresay that in that case, all Protestant religions would be considered cults since the Catholic Church is the only church that hasn't deviated from the original 'orthodox teachings of historic Christianity".

      • Posted By: bigjohn @ 12/16/2007 07:03:32

        Comment: Dear Core Theology,

        I could take the time to refute and/or expound upon each of your points above with other scriptures from the Holy Bible, but I don't think either of us would be converted to the other's beliefs.

        I'd rather celebrate our similarities than argue over our differences.

        1. We both believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit
        2. We both believe in the Holy Bible
        3. We both believe that salvation comes through faith at a minimum
        4. We both believe in the eternal nature of God and Jesus
        5. We both believe that Jesus suffered for our sins
        6. We both believe in the ten commandments
        7. We both believe in the teachings of Jesus as found in the Holy Bible
        8. We both believe in the prophets of the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus' disciples in the New Testament
        9. We both believe in loving our neighbors
        10. I could go on, but isn't it great to think that we have so many similarities between us and that we have the freedom to practice our religions in this great country?

        • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 02/08/2008 20:18:35

          Comment: The differences are what makes one Christian and the other not - just like the differences between a car and a boat make one a car, and one...well..not a car.

          There are a few similarities, but lets face it - there are many significant differences. Momonrism is not Christianity - not at all.

        • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 02/08/2008 20:16:26

          Comment: Um...no. That is not true. Protestants do not consider Catholics "cultists" - though Mormons clearly are.

    • Posted By: LDSsomeone12345 @ 12/14/2007 23:29:22

      Comment: You know, I would never deign to disrespect you so much as to pretend to know what evangelicals hold to be their doctrines or professions of faith. That is because I have never asked an evangelical about it, and thus, don't know. If you ask most Mormons about what evangelicals believe, most will answer that they don't know, and then ask you why you are not asking an evangelical. On the other hand, most evangelicals seem to think that they "know" something about Mormonism. How very wrong the vast majority are. You appear to be no exception to that majority. You obviously have never spoken with a knowledgable and believing Mormon, or else these ignorant sound bite, out-of-context-, fallacious, vastly mischaracterized presentations here would not have been further propounded by you. Before you go bashing our religion, you ought to at least get the truth of it in context from one who understands it, and not merely one who THINKS he/she knows something. What most pastors know about our church wouldn't pass for accurate in a million years, and rank somewhere between complete misunderstanding to out-and-out lies. Educate yourself properly before you bring your drivel to the table and claim to present facts in an accurate light.

      • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 12/15/2007 10:28:29

        Comment: Dear LDSsomeone12345 :

        The doctrinal statements I posted regarding Mormon beliefs were taken directly from the LDS teaching materials. All of them are freely available online at the official LDS websites. If you think I posted something in error, could you please point out what, specifically, I said that you believe to be incorrect?

        Thank you.

        • Posted By: Answers @ 12/17/2007 13:56:59

          Comment: Dear CoreTheology: Not only are some of your statements innacurrate, but so are your interpretations (which you included as part of the statement). First of all, the statement about cults being anything different from orthodox christianity leads one to say that protestentism would then be a cult. Further, so would catholicism, as it is profoundly different in many aspects from the church that Jesus Christ established as recorded in the New Testament. Mormonism, however, is the latter-day restoration of the same church that Christ originally established, but was lost after the death of the Savior and the apostles, which was the reason for the dark ages. It was restored just as it was always given, through a prophet of God.

          Just to mention a couple of others:

          You can read the book of James forwards, backwards and inside out and you can not change the fact that he clearly described faith and works tangibly tied to one another. "Faith without works is dead." It is clearly stated. Knowing (believing) is not enough. Even Satan knows. It is after all you can do, then God's mercy comes into play. The result of Christ's Atonement wasn't that we don't have to live right. He did what we cannot do for ourselves, but we have to do all that we can do for our part to be worthy of his grace. Otherwise we miss the point of this earthly probationary time.

          Lastly, the scriptural description of marriage is taken completely out of context. Christ was speaking to the Sadducees, who didn't believe in life after death, so their question was insincere, and He knew it. He explained to them that there is no marriage in heaven, meaning that marriage takes place on earth and should be sealed by those in priesthood authority. He did not mean that men and women would not live in marriage relationships in heaven. Families should be forever. Try it, That is a good and wonderful doctrine!!!

          All of your comments about God and Jesus and their relationship to each other and to us are based upon an incomplete understanding of the eternities. Some teaching were given to us in light of our temporary life on this mortal earth, and others are given to us in light of our immortality. That is also wonderful doctrine!

          The difference is that some believe that the heavens were closed to prophetic revelation. That was the dark ages, described by Moses in Leviticus as when the heavens would be as steel and the earth as brass. Not much movement there, We are not in "dark ages" with only ancient scripture to guide us. We are just like all mankind, outside of the dark ages, where God's word is given to us for our times and in light of our circumstances. If you go back to orthodox christianity, you will find all of this. There is nothing new here. Even in the old days of prophets the people complained about what they heard the prophets teach.

          • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 02/08/2008 20:21:20

            Comment: Which statement specifically is inaccurate? Your idea of salvation by works is not Biblical. James is NOT saying that you have to work your way to salvation.

            Think about it - if we could be saved by works, then what was the point of Christ's sacrifice? I mean, if I can do it myself, what do I need Him for?

            Your theology is deeply flawed - and it seperates you from Christianity. You have a religion - I agree..but it is certainly NOT Christian.

          • Posted By: Nate1991 @ 01/03/2008 23:09:06

            Comment: Ephes. 2:8
            For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
            Acts 16:31
            And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
            Galatians 2:21
            I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

            I'm sorry, but as Isaiah said, our best works are as filthy rags. We are all sinners who deserve to go to Hell. The good news is that Jesus took our place so we don't have to. "he was smitten for our transgressions, and by his stripes are we healed..."(more Isaiah.)
            Of course, if you honestly believe that, your life will be drastically changed. The reality that Jesus loves you that much to die a horrible, painful, gruesom death, for you, that should motivate you to love and follow him, and want to tell others how they can be forgiven too. If it doesn't, I would question whether you really believe it. I believe that is what James was refering to by "faith w/o works is dead"

            We are all sinners. Nobody deserves to go to Heaven. But Jesus died so we can. That is the Gospel.

            John 3:16-17
            For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

  • Posted By: votenic @ 12/12/2007 4:19:41 PM

    Comment: 2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll

    http://www.votenic.com

    The Only Poll That Matters.
    Results Posted Every Tuesday Evening.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/12/2007 12:49:46 AM

    Comment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft_family-If you go to this website or url, you will notice the development of the Taft family one of the most poweful families in America. Along with a few other families, they were able to establish a number of fraternities which contorl both parties political machinery.

    • Posted By: Shankardada2 @ 12/13/2007 13:34:20

      Comment: eddiewhere, you remind me of the cab driver in "Conspiracy Theory."

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/12/2007 12:16:29 AM

    Comment: The Taft is Heusen???s name is because Ezra Taft Benson is a descendent of Alphonso Taft, who along with one of the Russell family started the Order of the Skull and Bones (legally it has been known as Russell Trust).

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/12/2007 12:06:30 AM

    Comment: The Mormon president Ezra Taft Benson (considered a prophet by Mormons) was a fan of the John Birch Society.

    • Posted By: bigjohn @ 12/16/2007 06:24:13

      Comment: President Benson was an outspoken supporter of the constitution and freedom. The John Birch Society is "dedicated to restoring and preserving freedom under the US Constition".

      "The federal government cannot do the job of the family and the church, because everything it does is at the expense of something else. The only wealth it has is what it confiscates from someone else. The only power it has is what it steals from someone else. The only "services" it provides are at the expense of someone else. This is why our country's founding documents state that the federal government's role was to be very limited and narrowly defined."

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/11/2007 11:56:13 PM

    Comment: t

  • Posted By: votenic @ 12/11/2007 5:04:06 PM

    Comment: 2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll

    http://www.votenic.com

    The Only Poll That Matters
    Results Posted Every Tuesday Evening.

  • Posted By: collateral27 @ 12/10/2007 3:57:51 PM

    Comment: It would be great to see an article that talks about the similiarities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormonism) to other evangelical Christians. It is discouraging to read artcles that promote "Mormons" as not being Christian. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Church carries the name of Christ and the Mormons I've come to know accept Jesus Christ as their only source of salvation and try to pattern their lives after him. Although their doctorine is somewhat different I daresay they pray to the same God evangelicals do and do so through his son Jesus Christ.

  • Posted By: collateral27 @ 12/10/2007 3:44:31 PM

    Comment: It would be great to see an article that talks about the similiarities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormonism) to other evangelical Christians. It is discouraging to read artcles that promote "Mormons" as not being Christian. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Church carries the name of Christ and the Mormons I've come to know accept Jesus Christ as their only source of salvation and try to pattern their lives after him. Although their doctorine is somewhat different I daresay they pray to the same God evangelicals do and do so through his son Jesus Christ.

  • Posted By: The Eagle Spirit @ 12/09/2007 10:33:11 AM

    Comment: I am a firm believer in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. I also believe in the Ten Commandments. If Human Law was based on these commandments there would be no crime, only love for one another as people not money, material goods owned, or who we killed or stole from. There would be World Peace, and no need for Wars.

  • Posted By: The Eagle Spirit @ 12/09/2007 10:29:09 AM

    Comment: There was ten very important laws passed down to us all in the Bible. If The Human Laws were based on the Ten Commandments and fully executed there would be no crime, no rapes, murders, kidnaping or other things that take place. Taxation would not be needed because people would tithe to the church according to the Commandments and all would be taken care of with proper management. Yes we would have to save for our retirements but our necessitys would be shared with our Church families. We were also warned about all the false profits that are roaming the earth today causing war upon war and crimes to be committed, people are dying like flys from incurable disease.

    • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 12/10/2007 15:38:52

      Comment: So if we all followed the ten commandments life on earth would be a Utopia of peace and love. I don't buy it, that is not human nature. Many of our laws are already based on the commandments and that has not gotten us anywhere good. The world is what it is and somethign purported to be god's law is not gonna change that!!

      • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 12/11/2007 15:54:59

        Comment: "Many of our laws are already based on the commandments and that has not gotten us anywhere good."

        What the laws are based upon was not his point. His/her point was that if people actually FOLLOWED the laws that were given. If people actually FOLLOWED the laws that we have today, the world would be a different place indeed.

        The world "isn't what it is". The world is what we make it. To the extent that we see others as idiots or less deserving then ourselves, to the extent that indulge ourselves and seek pleasure and/or gain at others expense, well, then the world isn't such a great place. Fortunately, every person get's to make that decisions for his/herself.

  • Posted By: sheilab @ 12/09/2007 1:40:48 AM

    Comment: So this is what we have become? I find it tragic. I don't care what god someone serves, but what I do care about is any denomination imposing biblical law upon the nation as a replacement to secular laws. I don't believe this is about religion. This is about imposing biblical law and those are two separate issues.

    • Posted By: The Eagle Spirit @ 12/09/2007 10:40:25

      Comment: I agree with you on what religion people follow, however being a false profit teaching followers that killing people makes one a martyr, I could never believe in. A true Religion teaches love (not sex) for one another, to help others in need or with less than you have, not kill because you disagree with their lifestyles. To be a man or woman of the cloth one should live life as instructed in the Ten Commandments and leading others in the right direction. Never making laws that contridict what was passed down in the commandments for the sake of non believers. The non-believers can turn the other cheek or simply join those that try their best to live right.

  • Posted By: votenic @ 12/08/2007 9:17:33 PM

    Comment: 2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll

  • Posted By: jojoc10 @ 12/08/2007 8:45:08 PM

    Comment: It's sad that this is your perception of religion. There is no doubt that there are a lot of poor role models out there for you. I pray that you will indeed find faith in something more substantive than what you have realized in your surroundings. I can assure you that not all Christians are as you described.

    • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 12/10/2007 15:31:30

      Comment: Covers most that I have met. Bigoted, narrow mided people who feel they must pray the rest of us find our way into servitude to an unseen and unknowable being.

      • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 12/11/2007 15:57:22

        Comment: I won't pray for you...i'll just wish you luck. Hope your "life sucks and then we die" attitude keeps working for you.

  • Posted By: lokes1830 @ 12/08/2007 8:20:58 PM

    Comment: evangelicals are some of the most bigoted people I have met. If you look at their doctrine they believe jews, hindus, and people of all other faiths will go to hell. They believe children that are not baptized will go to hell. They beleive mormon will go to hell. Hell everyone is going to hell except their preacher who is gay and had an affair with a man and takes your money to save your sins. Yeah that is the faith I want?

    • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 12/11/2007 16:04:08

      Comment: Well, I can speak for Mormons. Mormons believes that a vast majority of people go to heaven, whether they be Mormon, Jew, Evangelical, atheist, etc.

      I am confused by the Evangelical position and would be interested to learn more about it. As I understand it, they believe that anyone who has not been baptized (I guess into their particular denomination...not sure about this???) goes to hell. Yet, once you get baptized (are "saved") then you go to heaven, regardless of how you behave on earth. Above it says this is true because it is based upon having a "relationship" with Christ. Yet, if someone is baptized but doesn't follow the teachings of Christ after baptism, then I would think they really don't have a relationship with Christ which makes me wonder how it is that they are saved. I'd like to know more.

 
 
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