Disparate Doctrines: Two Faiths in Conflict

The tension between evangelicals and Mormons is as old as the Mormon Church itself. While the two religions share similarly conservative social values, their beliefs clash when it comes to some of the most fundamental aspects of Christianity. The critical differences:

NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Dec 17, 2007

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  • Posted By: manyhats @ 04/10/2009 10:56:48 AM

    limeno, turn your caps lock off. It's extremely rude to SHOUT online. Here's a good netiquette page: http://www.kidsdomain.com/brain/computer/surfing/netiquette_kids.html

    I wish all you posters who are quibbling over obscure points of doctrine could read yourselves with my eyes. Especially the more judgmental among you who call other Christian sects "cults". Sure they don't have any real justifications for their departure from "orthodoxy" (sorry Mormons, your story is too hokey for me) but neither do you. Before you go criticizing another Christian sect be prepared to present a complete list of your doctrinal differences with the Gnostics and a thorough justification of each and every one. That goes for Catholics and Greek Orthodox too.

    Anyway, from my perspective all your denominations are cults. Definition: followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices. You spend all your time debating the details when you would be better off stepping back and looking at the big picture. For instance, with Easter upon us try reading up on Osiris and Mithra. See any similarities to your Christian beliefs in Jesus's resurrection? Of course, your beliefs were taken directly from these pre-Christian religions. Do your own research. Not a one of you has any right to criticize another. All your beliefs are built on thin air. It's no more ridiculous for LDS to say that God has a form than it is to say that Yahweh exists in the first place. For you real believers, do you even know that there is no extra-biblical evidence of Jesus's existence? None at all. Isn't that odd for someone that supposedly created such a stir, and in an era when we have excellent historical records? Just to be clear, you are basing your entire belief system on one book (two for you LDSers). A book that has been edited so many times that is a garbled mishmash of contradictory statements and historical inaccuracies. Here's another definition for you. Gullible: tendency to believe too readily and therefore to be easily deceived.

    Atohanie, you hit the nail on the head with your last comment about viewing other people as "Others". Sadly, promoting this view seems to be the primary function of a universalizing religion.

  • Posted By: Atohanie @ 04/09/2009 12:06:20 PM

    There is tension? Yes, occasionally individuals throw up brief writings detailing the differences, but you can find those differences between any of the different religions within Christianity. Better to talk about the similarities and the work they do together. So there are different beliefs - work on doing more good in yours, and I'll work on doing more good in mine, and we'll make the world a better place.

    Its when you start pointing to anyone as 'them' that you start to get into trouble.

  • Posted By: babar8675309 @ 12/14/2007 2:41:26 PM

    Some similarities between Mormon and Evangelical beliefs: We are all children of God, Brother and Sisters of a Supreme Being. We believe Jesus is the Redeemer of mankind and through His sacrifice and resurrection we can be saved. We believe in loving God, and our neighbor. We believe in helping those less fortunate an thanking God for our blessings. We believe in the ten commandments. We believe marriage


    We believe marriage is ordained of God and is strictly between a man and a woman and that homosexuality is a sin in the sight of God. We believe in not doing drugs and getting drunk. We believe in morality and saving the sexual experience for marriage.
    The press will go on and on about differences between the two faiths because the conflict will sell for papers and is more intriguing to the average person. If we stop and think - Evangelicals and Mormons have more in common than most people will ever give credit in the press. Politically speaking, we hold true almost all of the same beliefs and values.

    • Posted By: limeno @ 04/08/2009 10:35:48 PM

      ANYONE WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT DARK SECRETS OF THE MORMON SECT READ 'THE SALAMADER PAPERS.' READ HOW THE MORMONS USE TO MURDER PEOPLE ON THE WAY TO CALIFORNIA PASSING THROUGH UTAH. THEY WERE AFRAID SOME OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE WANTED TO LEAVE UTAH SO THEY MIGHT TAG ALONG WITH THOSE GOING TO CALIFORNIA. NOT TO BE BLAMED THEY USE TO DRESS AS INDIANS. THESE PEOPLE HAVE A REAL NASTY PAST WITH A NOT SO ROSY PRESENT.

    • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 12/14/2007 3:49:48 PM

      Thanks for that post. For all of the differences between Mormons and evangelicals there are far more similarities.

  • Posted By: Annie Reader @ 12/14/2007 1:24:33 AM

    I hope this comparison is more accurate about Mormonism than it is about evangelical Christiainity. A "heartfelt faith" in Christ as the basis for salvation is either an evasion or a misunderstanding of what evangelical Christians believe. Yes, faith in Christ is required, but the real point is that salvation requires God's forgiveness and that the only way to get that is through faith in Jesus, who paid the price for the sins of mankind when He died on the cross. Just believing in Christ as a great teacher who happens to be the son of God and praying directly to Him would miss the point. Also, evangelical Christianity has no prohibitions, per se. Evangelicals look to the Bible for what is right and wrong. They do not follow any church-made rules.

    • Posted By: bigjohn @ 12/16/2007 6:40:03 AM

      Dear Annie Reader,

      I'm a Mormon and am genuinely interested in your interpretation of the Trinity. I've studied world religions including Christianity, Buddhism, Shinto, Islam, etc. Where does your belief in the Trinity come from and how and where is it supported in the Holy Bible?

      P.S. No Mormon or any child of God will ever return to His presence except through the grace of Jesus Christ after all we can do. In short, we have faith in Jesus Christ, repent, are baptized, receive the Holy Ghost and then "endure to the end by giving it our best effort. Only after doing all that we can do, repenting of our shortcomings, and enduring to the end are we enabled to return to the presence of Heavenly Father through the grace of Jesus Christ. Without grace, no child of God, including any Mormon, will be able to return to God's presence regardless of how good they were on earth.

      • Posted By: limeno @ 04/08/2009 10:23:19 PM

        THERE IS NO 'YOUR INTERPRETATION" OF THE TRINITY OR FOR THAT MATTER THERE IS NO "YOUR" INTERPRETATION" OF ANYTHING IN THE BIBLE, THAT IS THE REASON WHY WE HAVE THOUSANDS OF "CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS " NOW. PRIVATE ENTERPRETATION. THIS IDEA CAME FROM MARTIN LUTHER. UP TO THEN IT WAS THE EDUCATED IN THE CHURCH, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT IS, WHO INTERPRETED THE BIBLE. HOW CAN ANYONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW ALL THE HIDDEN MYSTERIES IN THE BIBLE, BE ALLOWED TO READ THAT BOOK AND EXPECT TO MAKE TOTAL SENSE OF IT. THE EARLIEST EXAMPLE THAT THE BIBLE NEEDS TO BE TAUGHT BY SOMEONE WHO IS IN THE KNOW IS IN ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 8: 26-32 THEN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD SPOKE TO PHILLIP, " GET UP AND HEAD SOUTH ON THE ROAD TO GAZA, THE DESERT ROUTE." SO HE GOT UP AND SET OUT. NOW THERE WAS AN ETHIOPIAN EUNUCH, A COURT OFFICIAL OF THE CANDACE, THAT IS, THE QUEEN OF THE ETHIOPIANS, IN CHARGE OF HER ENTIRE TREASURY, WHO HAD COME TO JERUSALEM TO WORSHIP, AND WAS RETURNING HOME. SEATED IN HIS CHARIOT, HE WAS READING THE PROPHET ISAIAH. THE SPIRIT SAID TO PHILLIP, " GO AND JOIN. WITH THAT CHARIOT." PHILLIP RAN UP AND HEARD HIM READING ISAIAH THE PROPHET AND SAID, " DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING?' HE REPLIED, " HOW CAN i, UNLESS SOMEONE INSTRUCTS ME?: NOW SINCE LUTHER ALOT MAN FOUNDED RELIGIONS HAVE ALTERED THE SCRIPTURES TO COINCIDE WITH THEIR OWN BELIEFS OR IDEAS. GO BY YOURSELF INTO THE INTERNET OR A LIBRARY AND SEE WHAT WAS TAUGHT FROM THE BEGGINING ABOUT THE TRINITY, YOU WILL SEE HOW MEN HAVE ALTERED GOD'S WORD FOR THEIR PURPOSES. IN THE GOSPEL OF JOHN 10: 30 CHRIST SAYS, "THE FATHER AND I ARE ONE," FURTHER ON HE SAYS, "THE FATHER IS IN ME AND I AM IN THE FATHER." THE APOSTLE'S CREED OR NICEAN CREED WAS WRITTEN IN ABOUT THE 4TH OR 5TH CENTURY AND IN THERE IT DEFINES THE CHRISTIAN BELIEF IN THE TRINITY.

    • Posted By: bigjohn @ 12/16/2007 6:46:14 AM

      Dear Annie Reader,

      I'm a Mormon and am genuinely interested in your interpretation of the Trinity. I've studied world religions including Christianity, Buddhism, Shinto, Islam, etc. Where does your belief in the Trinity come from and how and where is it supported in the Holy Bible?

      P.S. No Mormon or any child of God will ever return to His presence except through the grace of Jesus Christ after all we can do. In short, we have faith in Jesus Christ, repent, are baptized, receive the Holy Ghost and then "endure to the end by giving it our best effort. Only after doing all that we can do, repenting of our shortcomings, and enduring to the end are we enabled to return to the presence of Heavenly Father through the grace of Jesus Christ. Without grace, no child of God, including any Mormon, will be able to return to God's presence regardless of how good they were on earth.

  • Posted By: pbmississippi @ 12/31/2008 11:37:13 AM

    James is discussing justification by works when he says faith without works is dead being alone.

    There are 3 types of justification discussed in the New Testament. I want to first define the term justification - it means to be declared just or righteous.

    First, there is justification by blood. This is where sinners are justified in the sight of God the Father by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Jesus shed His blood making an atonement (literally a covering) for the sins of His people. We now stand righteous in His sight, not by our own righteousness which are as filthy rags to Him, but by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. All those justified by blood shall be in Heaven, and the entire elect family is justified by blood.

    Next, there is justification by faith. This is what Paul discusses. Think of justification by blood as a circle enclosing the entire elect family of God. Justification by faith is a smaller circle inside of that. Not all children of God will experience this. Abraham is the example given by the Bible, and the chief text used is Genesis 15:6. God makes a promise to Abraham and Abraham, against all natural evidence, believes that promise. His faith is such that it trusts totally in God. Paul says that being justified freely by faith we have peace with God, and there's your definition for justification by faith. It is a confirmation, an assurance, a peace the individual child of God feels within him/herself.

    Finally, we have justification by works. A smaller cirlce inside of justification by faith, not all of those justified by faith will have justification by works. James says that faith and work go hand in hand. Faith should produce good works. If it does not it is essentially dead to all those around you, they can't see your faith. Works wrought in faith, such as James' example of Abraham sacrificing Isaac, show forth that strong faith to others and thus you are justified by that work. Works not wrought in faith do not please God and are dead works. Faith without works is a dead faith. Thus the two should be working hand in hand right here in time.

    Paul says we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Notice the creation happens before the works. Paul says that if any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold all things are become new. The works don't get you into Christ, they merely prove to others that you are in Christ, and they also please God who before ordained that we should do these good works (notice he did not said would). Also, faith is part of the nine-fold fruit of the spirit, and thus one must be in Christ before he can have faith. So, neither justification by faith or works get you to Heaven. These two things witness to you and those around you that you are a child of God and will one day be in Heaven with Him.

    • Posted By: animal69 @ 04/08/2009 11:42:05 AM


      . . . . . . . . Sounds like you are on track here . . . . . .

      Isaiah 44:6
      American Standard Version
      Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      Young's Literal Translation
      Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: `I [am] the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      Darby Translation
      Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I [am] the first, and I [am] the last, and beside me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      ???This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ???I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.

      . . . . . . . One GOD and no other, well it depends how you use the word ???god???. . . .

      1 Corinthians 8:5-6
      Darby Translation
      5For and if indeed there are [those] called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, (as there are gods many, and lords many,)
      6yet to us [there is] one God, the Father, of whom all things, and *we* for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and *we* by him.
      Young's Literal Translation
      5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many
      6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him;
      American Standard Version
      5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;
      6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      5 For even though there are those who are called ???gods,??? whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many ???gods??? and many ???lords,??? 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him
      .

      . . . Some people could use this to say Moses was GOD now. . . . .

      Exodus 7:1
      Darby Translation
      1And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
      Young's Literal Translation
      Exodus 7
      1And Jehovah saith unto Moses, `See, I have given thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother is thy prophet;
      American Standard Version
      Exodus 7
      1 And Jehovah said unto Moses, See, I have made thee as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      Exodus 7
      1 Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: ???See, I have made you God to Phar??aoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.



      . . . . . . .Seems like you blew it on this one

      • Posted By: limeno @ 04/08/2009 9:18:55 PM

        WERE IN THIS READING IN THE BIBLE FROM CHRISTS OWN LIPS MEANS TO YOU, "HE WILL PLACE THE SHEEP ON HIS RIGHT AND THE GOATS ON HIS LEFT. THEN THE KING WILL SAY TO THOSE ON HIS RIGHT, ' COME YOU WHO ARE BLESSED BY MY FATHER. INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED FOR YOU. FOR I WAS HUNGRY AND YOU GAVE ME FOOD, I WAS THIRSTY AND YOU GAVE ME DRINK...." I DON'T SEE CHRIST ASKING THEM IF THEY HAVE FAITH, DO YOU. YOUR THEOLOGICAL CONCLUSIONS IS WEIRD. YOUR " WORKS DON;T GET YOU INTO CHRIST, THEY MERELY PROVE TO OTHERS THAT YOU ARE IN CHRIST", SO IF ANY ONE WHO IS NOT A CHRISTIAN AND DOES GOOD THINGS, WHAT IS HIS STANDING BY YOUR REASONING?

    • Posted By: animal69 @ 04/08/2009 11:41:05 AM


      . . . . . . . . Sounds like you are on track here . . . . . .

      Isaiah 44:6
      American Standard Version
      Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      Young's Literal Translation
      Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: `I [am] the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      Darby Translation
      Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I [am] the first, and I [am] the last, and beside me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      ???This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ???I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.

      . . . . . . . One GOD and no other, well it depends how you use the word ???god???. . . .

      1 Corinthians 8:5-6
      Darby Translation
      5For and if indeed there are [those] called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, (as there are gods many, and lords many,)
      6yet to us [there is] one God, the Father, of whom all things, and *we* for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and *we* by him.
      Young's Literal Translation
      5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many
      6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him;
      American Standard Version
      5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;
      6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      5 For even though there are those who are called ???gods,??? whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many ???gods??? and many ???lords,??? 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him
      .

      . . . Some people could use this to say Moses was GOD now. . . . .

      Exodus 7:1
      Darby Translation
      1And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
      Young's Literal Translation
      Exodus 7
      1And Jehovah saith unto Moses, `See, I have given thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother is thy prophet;
      American Standard Version
      Exodus 7
      1 And Jehovah said unto Moses, See, I have made thee as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      Exodus 7
      1 Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: ???See, I have made you God to Phar??aoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.



      . . . . . . .Seems like you blew it on this one

  • Posted By: nicolucas @ 04/08/2009 9:04:13 PM

    THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DATES BACK 2,000 YEARS AGO WHEN ST. PETER BECAME THE FIRST POPE.
    JESUS SAID TO PETER, YOU ARE THE ROCK UPON WHICH I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH.
    WE HAVE BEEN CRITICIZED FOR EVERYTHING, INCLUDING GIVING HONOR TO THE BLESSED MOTHER.
    IN JOHN IT SAYS THAT ALL GENERATIONS SHALL CALL ME BLESSED. (REFERING TO MARY).

    BUT REALLY LETS PUT ALL OF MINER DIFFERENCES ASIDE AND STOP ALL THIS CRITICISM. WE ARE ALL CHRISTIANS, CHILDREN OF GOD, JESUS IS OUR SAVIOR, HE DIED FOR US. ALL OF US CHRISTIANS. HE LOVES ALL OF US, SINNERS, EVERYONE OF US. SO WE SHOULD ALL STAND TOGETHER AND LOVE EACH OTHER. WHO CARES WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG. WE HAVE MUCH BIGGER PROBLEMS TO FIGHT. WE NEED TO FIGHT AGAINST RADICAL ISLAM, SO WHY MUST WE FIGHT AMONG OURSELVES. WE NEED TO UNITE CHRISTIANS. WE NEED TO UNITE WITH OUR JEWISH FRIENDS IN THE FIGHT FOR OUR FUTURE.

  • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 12/13/2007 11:11:44 PM

    Mormonism is a cult, if you define cult as "Any religious group that deviates from orthodox teachings of historic Christianity, while claiming to be "true Christians" by way of some special revelation or privilege". There are lots of cults out there, Mormonism being one.

    Christians and Mormons worship two DIFFERENT Gods.

    Here are a few differences between what Christians and Mormons believe:
    1Mormon ??? God was once a man like us.
    1Christian ??? God was, is, and always will be God.

    2Mormon ??? Many Gods, an unknown number of them
    2Christian ??? One God. Isaiah 44 ???I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God???Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any.???

    3Mormon ??? Salvation by grace AND works 2 Nephi 25:23
    3Christian ??? Salvation by faith alone. Many verses, one example Ephesians 2:8-9

    4Mormon ??? Men become Gods, have a marriage and children in Heaven
    4Christian ??? ???Men become Gods??? is blasphemy. Jesus said we will be neither married nor given in marriage in Heaven. Matthew 22:29-30

    Mormons and Christians worship a different Jesus as well:

    The Jesus of the Bible: Co-Eternal with God, without beginning or end.

    The Jesus of Mormonism: Created by a God, who was himself also created. At one time this Jesus was not, then, having been created by God, became. This Jesus is thus less than God.

    Each religion has a different Jesus, and a different God. One is Christian, one is clearly not.

    • Posted By: vonngirl @ 12/16/2007 12:58:06 AM

      I read that Evangelicals believe the Catholic church to be a "cult". Is this true? Because according to your definition of a "cult" it is: "any religious group that deviates from orthodox teachings of historic Christianity". I daresay that in that case, all Protestant religions would be considered cults since the Catholic Church is the only church that hasn't deviated from the original 'orthodox teachings of historic Christianity".

      • Posted By: bigjohn @ 12/16/2007 7:03:32 AM

        Dear Core Theology,

        I could take the time to refute and/or expound upon each of your points above with other scriptures from the Holy Bible, but I don't think either of us would be converted to the other's beliefs.

        I'd rather celebrate our similarities than argue over our differences.

        1. We both believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit
        2. We both believe in the Holy Bible
        3. We both believe that salvation comes through faith at a minimum
        4. We both believe in the eternal nature of God and Jesus
        5. We both believe that Jesus suffered for our sins
        6. We both believe in the ten commandments
        7. We both believe in the teachings of Jesus as found in the Holy Bible
        8. We both believe in the prophets of the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus' disciples in the New Testament
        9. We both believe in loving our neighbors
        10. I could go on, but isn't it great to think that we have so many similarities between us and that we have the freedom to practice our religions in this great country?

        • Posted By: limeno @ 04/08/2009 8:40:24 PM

          THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DID NOT BRAKE AWAY FROM ANY OTHER CHURCH. THE ORTHODOX "CHURCH" WAS THE FIRST "CHURCH" TO BREAK AWAY FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, AFTER THE NEXT MAIN "CHURCH " TO BRAKE FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS MARTIN LUTHER OR LUTHERANS. YOU KNOW LUTHER WAS ORIGINALLY A ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST WHO DECIDE TO CHALLENGE 1,500 YEARS OF ESTABLISHED RELIGION. I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT ONLY GOD COULD FIND RELIGION. WELL LUTHER WAS NOT A GOD. SO LET'S GO ON THE BASIS THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ERRED SOMEHOW AND LUTHER REFOUND THE TRUE WAY, THEN WHY IS THERE SO MANY OTHER PROTESTANT "CHURCHES". NO PROTESTANT I TALK TO CAN EXPLAI THIS TO ME, CAN ANYBODY OUT THERE DO? THE ANGLICAN OR EPISCOPAL CHURCH WAS FOUNDED BY A KING WHO HAD THE HEADS CHOP OF TWO OF HIS WIVES, WAS A GLUTTON, GOT A TITLE FROM THE POPE, DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, BECAUSE HE DEFENDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AGAINST LUTHER. PLEASE PEOPLE DON'T LIVE YOUR LIVES IN TOTAL IGNORANCE, READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELVES ON WHAT REALLY HAPPENED IN THE PAST. ALL NON-CATHOLIC "CHURCHES" HAVE FOUNDED BY FALLIBLE MEN, NOT BY ANGELES OR THE SUCH. EVEN IN OLD TETAMENT TIMES THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO CLAIMED TO BE SENT BY GOD, AND THIS WHAT SAID OF THEM WHICH I BELIEVE IS ALSO APPICABLE TO EVERY " PROPHET" SINCE LUTHER, "LIES THESE PROPHETS UTTER IN MY NAME, THE LORD SAID TO ME. I DID NOT SEND THEM; I GAVE THEM NO COMMAND NOR DID I SPEAK TO THEM. LYING DIVINATION, DREAMS OF THEIR OWN IMAGINATION, THEY PROPHESY TO YOU." JEREMIAH 14: 14-15 OR "THUS SAYS THE LORD OF HOSTS: LISTEN NOT TO THE WORDS OF YOUR PROPHETS, WHO FILL YOU WITH EMPTINESS;VISIONS OF THEIR OWN FANCY THEY SPEAK, NOT FROM THE MOUTH OF THE LORD." JEREMIAH 23: 16-17. IF ANYONE RELLY LOOKS AT THE SCRIPTURES WITH AN OPEN MIND AND THEN TRY TO APPLY SOME OTHER LIKE SCRIPTURES TO ALL THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS THAT HAVE CLAIMED TO HAVE BEEN "SENT", AND THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF THEM , YOU WILL EVETUALLY SAY TO YOUR SELF, THERE IS SOMETHING FISHY HERE. FROM WAY BACK, IF GOD DID SPEAK TO SOMEONE THERE WOULD BE SOMEKIND OF SIGN THAT THIS WAS THE CASE, THAT IS NOT THE CASE WITH THESE PROPHETS SINCE MARTIN LUTHER.

        • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 02/08/2008 8:18:35 PM

          The differences are what makes one Christian and the other not - just like the differences between a car and a boat make one a car, and one...well..not a car.

          There are a few similarities, but lets face it - there are many significant differences. Momonrism is not Christianity - not at all.

        • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 02/08/2008 8:16:26 PM

          Um...no. That is not true. Protestants do not consider Catholics "cultists" - though Mormons clearly are.

    • Posted By: animal69 @ 04/08/2009 11:44:43 AM

      Enter Your Comment
      . . . . . . . . Sounds like you are on track here . . . . . .

      Isaiah 44:6
      American Standard Version
      Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      Young's Literal Translation
      Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: `I [am] the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      Darby Translation
      Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I [am] the first, and I [am] the last, and beside me there is no God.
      Isaiah 44:6
      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      ???This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ???I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.

      . . . . . . . One GOD and no other, well it depends how you use the word ???god???. . . .

      1 Corinthians 8:5-6
      Darby Translation
      5For and if indeed there are [those] called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, (as there are gods many, and lords many,)
      6yet to us [there is] one God, the Father, of whom all things, and *we* for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and *we* by him.
      Young's Literal Translation
      5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many
      6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him;
      American Standard Version
      5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;
      6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      5 For even though there are those who are called ???gods,??? whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many ???gods??? and many ???lords,??? 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him
      .

      . . . Some people could use this to say Moses was GOD now. . . . .

      Exodus 7:1
      Darby Translation
      1And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
      Young's Literal Translation
      Exodus 7
      1And Jehovah saith unto Moses, `See, I have given thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother is thy prophet;
      American Standard Version
      Exodus 7
      1 And Jehovah said unto Moses, See, I have made thee as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

      New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
      Exodus 7
      1 Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: ???See, I have made you God to Phar??aoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.



      . . . . . . .Seems like you b

    • Posted By: LDSsomeone12345 @ 12/14/2007 11:29:22 PM

      You know, I would never deign to disrespect you so much as to pretend to know what evangelicals hold to be their doctrines or professions of faith. That is because I have never asked an evangelical about it, and thus, don't know. If you ask most Mormons about what evangelicals believe, most will answer that they don't know, and then ask you why you are not asking an evangelical. On the other hand, most evangelicals seem to think that they "know" something about Mormonism. How very wrong the vast majority are. You appear to be no exception to that majority. You obviously have never spoken with a knowledgable and believing Mormon, or else these ignorant sound bite, out-of-context-, fallacious, vastly mischaracterized presentations here would not have been further propounded by you. Before you go bashing our religion, you ought to at least get the truth of it in context from one who understands it, and not merely one who THINKS he/she knows something. What most pastors know about our church wouldn't pass for accurate in a million years, and rank somewhere between complete misunderstanding to out-and-out lies. Educate yourself properly before you bring your drivel to the table and claim to present facts in an accurate light.

      • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 12/15/2007 10:28:29 AM

        Dear LDSsomeone12345 :

        The doctrinal statements I posted regarding Mormon beliefs were taken directly from the LDS teaching materials. All of them are freely available online at the official LDS websites. If you think I posted something in error, could you please point out what, specifically, I said that you believe to be incorrect?

        Thank you.

        • Posted By: Answers @ 12/17/2007 1:56:59 PM

          Dear CoreTheology: Not only are some of your statements innacurrate, but so are your interpretations (which you included as part of the statement). First of all, the statement about cults being anything different from orthodox christianity leads one to say that protestentism would then be a cult. Further, so would catholicism, as it is profoundly different in many aspects from the church that Jesus Christ established as recorded in the New Testament. Mormonism, however, is the latter-day restoration of the same church that Christ originally established, but was lost after the death of the Savior and the apostles, which was the reason for the dark ages. It was restored just as it was always given, through a prophet of God.

          Just to mention a couple of others:

          You can read the book of James forwards, backwards and inside out and you can not change the fact that he clearly described faith and works tangibly tied to one another. "Faith without works is dead." It is clearly stated. Knowing (believing) is not enough. Even Satan knows. It is after all you can do, then God's mercy comes into play. The result of Christ's Atonement wasn't that we don't have to live right. He did what we cannot do for ourselves, but we have to do all that we can do for our part to be worthy of his grace. Otherwise we miss the point of this earthly probationary time.

          Lastly, the scriptural description of marriage is taken completely out of context. Christ was speaking to the Sadducees, who didn't believe in life after death, so their question was insincere, and He knew it. He explained to them that there is no marriage in heaven, meaning that marriage takes place on earth and should be sealed by those in priesthood authority. He did not mean that men and women would not live in marriage relationships in heaven. Families should be forever. Try it, That is a good and wonderful doctrine!!!

          All of your comments about God and Jesus and their relationship to each other and to us are based upon an incomplete understanding of the eternities. Some teaching were given to us in light of our temporary life on this mortal earth, and others are given to us in light of our immortality. That is also wonderful doctrine!

          The difference is that some believe that the heavens were closed to prophetic revelation. That was the dark ages, described by Moses in Leviticus as when the heavens would be as steel and the earth as brass. Not much movement there, We are not in "dark ages" with only ancient scripture to guide us. We are just like all mankind, outside of the dark ages, where God's word is given to us for our times and in light of our circumstances. If you go back to orthodox christianity, you will find all of this. There is nothing new here. Even in the old days of prophets the people complained about what they heard the prophets teach.

          • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 02/08/2008 8:21:20 PM

            Which statement specifically is inaccurate? Your idea of salvation by works is not Biblical. James is NOT saying that you have to work your way to salvation.

            Think about it - if we could be saved by works, then what was the point of Christ's sacrifice? I mean, if I can do it myself, what do I need Him for?

            Your theology is deeply flawed - and it seperates you from Christianity. You have a religion - I agree..but it is certainly NOT Christian.

          • Posted By: Nate1991 @ 01/03/2008 11:09:06 PM

            Ephes. 2:8
            For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
            Acts 16:31
            And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
            Galatians 2:21
            I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

            I'm sorry, but as Isaiah said, our best works are as filthy rags. We are all sinners who deserve to go to Hell. The good news is that Jesus took our place so we don't have to. "he was smitten for our transgressions, and by his stripes are we healed..."(more Isaiah.)
            Of course, if you honestly believe that, your life will be drastically changed. The reality that Jesus loves you that much to die a horrible, painful, gruesom death, for you, that should motivate you to love and follow him, and want to tell others how they can be forgiven too. If it doesn't, I would question whether you really believe it. I believe that is what James was refering to by "faith w/o works is dead"

            We are all sinners. Nobody deserves to go to Heaven. But Jesus died so we can. That is the Gospel.

            John 3:16-17
            For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

  • Posted By: limeno @ 04/08/2009 2:34:12 PM

    Ever since Martin Luther and his "revelations" from "God" up to who was just the last person that God "revealed" a "new right way" in the past few seconds, that is what protestanism is all about. It's just blows my mind every time I'm approached by some non-Catholic and talks to me about what Christ taught and about what is in the Bible. You have to be a real retard to believe that God Himself, or an angel, or a prophet, etc. have nothing else to do then to spread confusion among the believers of Christ and Christianity. Why would God, or someone sent in His name, teach some new prophet something that was never taught before, for over 2,000 years now. Where does the Christ say this was to happen, show me something in the Bible that affirms all these revelators were and are to come. I do know that Christ
    said, "See that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah", and they wiil deceive many. Matt 24:4-6. Everyone who knows the Bible knows that the Apostles and writers of the rest of the Bible, came down even more harsh on people who were already teaching different messages from God upsetting the early Church
    and some of the things that were said against them were, " I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called by the grace of Christ for a different gospel, not that there is another. But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let that one be accursed! As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one you received, let that one be accursed!." I think I can safely say that Luther, Calvin, Knox, Henry VIII, the Wesley bothers, John Russel, Joseph Smith, etc., etc.were not angels sent by God
    let alone prophets. Every Christian "religion" outside of the Catholic Church was founded by a human being and all after Martin Luther who started the ball rolling, if this is not the case I have asked proof that all these man founded religions give me proof that they existed before Martin Luther, to give me proof, real proof that they trace their roots to the time of the Apostles, would you believe I'm almost 70 and in all these years not one has come back to my house saying ,Here is our proof that we were there on Pentecost Day, here historical proof that we were there in the 1st century, the 2nd century, and so on. THEY NEVER COME BACK BECAUSE THEY LYING, A LIE HAS NO PROOF. Again doesn't St. Paul say, " BUT EVEN IF WE OR AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN SHOULD PREACH TO YOU A GOSPEL OTHER THAN THE ONE WE PREACHED TO YOU, LET THAT ONE BE ACCURSED!" Sorry I just don;t see any exeptions here, of course those who want to ignore this reading and create their Bible or teachings then does the accurse part apply to them?

    • Posted By: limeno @ 04/08/2009 7:24:40 PM

      i HAD WRITTEN THAT ALOT OF PEOPLE WHO I TALKED TO ABOUT THIS POINT GIVE ABOUT 1,000 DATES THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS FOUNDED ON. YET NOT ONE HISTORY BOOK, OR ANY BOOK WITH INFORMATION ON THIS MATTER SAYS ANYTHING LIKE THAT. PLEASE TELL WHERE YOU GOT YOUR INFORMATION, I WOULD GUESS YOU GOT IT FROM AN ALAMANAC, AN ENCYCLOPEDIA, A HISTORY BOOK, SOME PROGRAM ON TV LIKE THE HISTORY CHANNEL, DISCOVERY ? PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHERE YOU GOT YOUR INFORMATION.

  • Posted By: ID_Neon @ 04/08/2009 5:16:55 PM

    Limeno you need a history lesson, the Catholic Church was not established until 538 AD, when Rome fell as a secular power and the Bishop in Rome was all that remained as an institution in that city.

    So which church was established by Christ? The Catholic? The Coptic? The Greek orthodox? the true answer is ALL OF THEM. And that's the Protestant's point, that is Martin Luther's point, the point is that the Catholic Church, if it diverges from the Scriptures as it HAD with indulgences, and other "traditions", then it is UNCHRISTIAN and Wrong. The Protestants therefore protest the council of Worms which tries to say the Catholic Church has full secular power, and is the intermediary between you and God, Jesus Christ, and the Scriptures. The Protestants simply protested the Catholic refusal to truly reform their errant ways.

  • Posted By: CoreTheology @ 12/22/2007 10:27:04 AM

    Sadly, much of this discussion has deteriorated into ???my good works are better than your good works???. Such is the arguments of children.

    God wants a people of faith, not of works. This theme is constant throughout the Old Testament and New Testament.

    Read Numbers 21:4-8. What did the people have to do to be saved? This is an echo ??? a foreshadow ??? of things to come in God???s dealing with people. The companion verses are John 3:1-16. What must we do to be saved?

    I do not argue over who does what; faith is not to be reduced to a beauty contest.

    Christianity ??? Biblical Christianity ??? teaches salvation by faith alone. In Christianity God saves man.

    Works-based religions (including Mormonism) teach that man must do things ??? be God???s helpers you might say ??? and ???earn??? salvation. Thus, in all other religions, man saves man.

    Faith in God or faith in man. The choice is yours, but be careful which you choose. Your choice has eternal consequences.

    • Posted By: GardenCatFM @ 06/13/2008 10:29:32 PM

      Faith or works? Faith or works? It is an endless debate because each side chooses not to bring in all the scripture, just those to defend their position.
      What is Paul talking about when he says that the law will not save you, but only faith in Christ. Evangelicals define it as all law. Mormons define it as Jewish law. The Bible states that the Law of Moses was fulfilled by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. When earl;y Christians tried to proselyte their beliefs, they were confronted by Jews and others to tried to incorporate their traditions into the "new" Christian faith. Paul was telling the people that a man could not be saved by the law, meaning the Law of Moses. The Law was given to prepare the Children of Israel for the coming of Christ, who would fulfil that law by his sacrifice and give man his law, the Law of Christ. This law did not have in it animal sacrifice and rules for living minute by minute, but asked for a broken heart and a contrite spirit, and following the Savior's commandments. Therefore, law was not done away with, but rather a new law was given, based on faith in Christ, but also commandments (works), which must be obeyed. Through obedience to the gospel, or law of Christ, mankind is saved through faith in Jesus Christ. Christ paid the price of sin and therefore became the author of the way to get back to the Father's presence.

      So when you argue against the law in favor of faith only and try to use the letters of Paul to defend your position, please be honest and admit exactly what Paul is defining law as, and not mixing his words to adapt to a manmade doctrine of faith only salvation, which in reality is not biblical.

  • Posted By: Happy in America @ 01/12/2008 2:50:36 PM

    To Cyberella: The devil always gets a free pass. LOL. Just a joke, but on a more serious note, they attack mormons who they know won't ever retaliate because they do live their chirstian values, but can you imagine the uproar in the muslim world and all over this country if anybody dares to comment on Obama s religious belief. Even though we have freedom of speech, there are certain topics in which we are certainly gagged by political correctness in this country. And african-americans and muslims are 2 of them and Obama is both, can you imagine? I do believe there are many good muslim people living their religion the best they know how, but mind you, there are a lot of radical muslims out there ready to murder their fellow beings to gain paradise. Anyways, a candidate s religion should not be a consideration for his running for office, but why do people are so bother by mormons who are quite nice, kind people, living their standards, just because they don't not agree with their beliefs. If they evangelicals worry about doctrine, why are they not worry about muslims running for office? I don't know what kind of Muslimis Obama whether he is a main stream muslim or a radical, but live the Romeny alone because he's a mormon and if you are going to questions candidates belief then be fait, let s talk about Obama and see what his beliefs are all about. The evangelicals prcticallly made Romeny address whether he believed in Christ and whether his church leadership would have any bearings on his decisions were he to be elected. Maybe they should be asking Obama about that too. Fairnes to all.

  • Posted By: cyberella @ 01/07/2008 11:49:54 AM

    Many of Reagan's advisors were Morman. The Mormon/ Christian religion is not the problem here. Islam is the problem- and the major Democratic candidate is getting a pass on this.

  • Posted By: have_a_cuddle @ 12/18/2007 6:29:10 PM

    Hey guys : )
    I'm a Muslim, so I probably don't have any right to comment, but I found some things in the Mormon belief system exceptionally comforting. Evangelical Christians apparently believe they can do whatever they want and still get into heaven as long as they have faith--which is highly disturbing when one thinks of the consequences. By that logic one could go along being the most exclusive, bigoted jerk of all time, killing those they didn't like, and still be on God's good side as long as they were 'pals' with Jesus. With mORMONISM ONE HAS TO ACTUALLY BE A GOOD PERSON TO FIND A GOOD PLACE IN HEAVEN.

    • Posted By: Nate1991 @ 01/03/2008 11:13:39 PM

      No one is a good person. ( Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; ) We're all sinners. That's why Jesus died in our place. (John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. )

  • Posted By: Nate1991 @ 01/03/2008 10:49:50 PM

    Mormon Doctrines that go against the Bible:

    -Multiple gods (Doctrine and Covenants 132:37)
    The Bible says:
    Isaiah 43:10
    .......I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
    1 Tim. 2:5
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    2 Samuel 7:22
    Wherefore thou art great, O Lord God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

    -Multiple heavens
    The Bible says:
    John 3:36
    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    There are 2 paths- see Revelation 20:25(those not in Book of Life- Lake of fire) and 21:23, 21:27, and 22:5 (for those in the Book of Life- with God forever)

    -Full salvation requires more than faith in Christ (temple marriage, baptism, etc. needed for highest level of Celestial Kingdom)
    Bible says:
    Ephes. 2:8
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Acts 16:31
    And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
    Galatians 2:21
    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    -Polygamy (doctrine and covenants 132:61-62)
    Bible says:
    1 Tim. 3:2
    A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; see also 3:12.

    -Preexistence
    Bible says:
    1 Cor. 15:44-46
    It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. [45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. [46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


    Mormonism doesn't go against "evangelicals". It goes against what the Holy Bible -proven time and time again by archaeology, history, science, and prophesy- says. I don't see how LDS people call themselves say that they are also Christians who believe the Bible.

  • Posted By: A Blessing4u @ 01/03/2008 9:50:20 AM

    I would like to say this, I would have rather lived my life knowing that one day i will have made it to heaven, because i choose to be a follower of Christ... living a sanctified lifestyle, than to fine out there is truly a hell and i will spend eternity there because i choose to live a life contrary to the will of God.
    The only reason i see that peole make excuses for man ('not being perfect') is that we don't want to be covicted or have a guilty concious...and we all do from time to time. Our pride want allow us to admit that we are wrong in own vain twisted thoughts and lifestyles and we do need a Savior.
    The problem is the is no one is worthy enough to save me from myself, forgive me and wash me from my sins, and through willful obedience and faith in Christ obtain eternal salvation. No one could do that for man-kind except Christ.
    God creating man is not a show of imperfection on His part...., but mastery. That "beings" that are not terestrial or angelical could choose, could think, make rational decision- Nearly 95% of things that has happened to man has been because of his own pride and willful dis-obedience. We that are christians and non-christian know that there are forces and intities out there that are far greater than ourselves, This epic battle of good versus evil, cops verus robbers....... It's in the cartoons, it's in the movies. No one in the secular world wants to admit. The Bible for all the complaints out there........... The movies and cartoons are stimulated by it (Bible)even if it's twisted and taken out of context... We all know the truth and the infallibilty of the scriptures... For neary every prophecy from Old to New Testament has been fulfilled. We have recieved warning after warning..... That the day is at hand. We are always saying that we want some sign............ That's a lie!!!! We have been given signs and even heard about them, but are a stiffnecked people and refuse truth even when it's right in our face.

  • Posted By: Balance @ 12/31/2007 8:06:01 PM

    Faith without works is dead. Both faith and works are required to receive salvation in the Lord's kingdom. That is what mormons believe.

  • Posted By: Balance @ 12/31/2007 8:04:50 PM

    Faith without works is dead. Both are required to receive salvation in the Lord's kingdom. This is what Mormons believe.

  • Posted By: blueboy @ 12/26/2007 4:59:15 PM

    coretheology and other similar posts ar so much alike. A doctrine that never requires people to live up to any of the Lord's standards and everyone gets a pass on conduct just by their faith or belief without action is a sorry, rickety way of life.

    It is kind of the same idea as saying to our war enemies "We are so much better than you and we would never practice anything like torture--but we will anyway, because all is forgiven with a little profession of faith."

    That dog don't hunt. That is the problem with evangelicals, and I was raised as one. They just don't live it.

  • Posted By: traviso99 @ 12/21/2007 9:43:47 PM

    Yseult, terryis and JYoung...thank you all for helping me better understand the scripture. I appreciate the posts by each of you and am thankful for the time you invested (well, I hope!) in reading my post, and your well-thought-out responses. Sorry I took off into left field with my post, and I hope it was more than just a waste of your time. I tend to ramble...
    I hope for and have faith we can all work together to make the world a better place, regardless of our belief systems/structures. You each help me believe this is possible.

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