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Watching Torture

A reporter's reflections on 'the pornography of violence.'

By John Barry | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Dec 10, 2007 | Updated: 1:37  p.m. ET Dec 10, 2007

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  • Posted By: John Somebody @ 02/08/2008 4:28:59 AM

    Comment: Any nation state that needs to practice genocidal acts of ethnic "cleansing" in order to exist, has no right to exist. Any nation state that supports such a terrorist genocidal state, (Israel for instance), should get what it's got coming. If that nation state (U.S., forn instance) has a history of exporting terror and corruption, (again the U.S.), then they've got even more to reap of what they've sown. The pity is that innocents get killed as well, which gives the terrorists with tanks and F16's etc. a further excuse to rampage , shouting, " They attacked us first". Note how even now, some Americans still think that Iraq had somehting to do with Al Quaida, before the U.S. invaded Iraq for the second time.

  • Posted By: tcherchel @ 12/16/2007 6:50:23 AM

    Comment: Wow, I thought the article not only significantly rings true but regrettably your whole audience has very evidently reacted in the method that you predicted. Sad, who was it that said "man is a cvilised animal who loses his temper when he is called upon to act within the dictates of reason. I have had also the misfortune to see and know families of people who were tortured, thankfully I was spared the videos (don't need the to know more) but the stories first hand are horrific because they add emotional burden. It is regrettable that such things take place, and unlike what our quick tempered friends believe it is not bound by ethnicity - I assure you that everyone doing the torturing has a very hightened sense of justice (it is amazing to me!!) and can spend hours defending his actions on why .

  • Posted By: tcherchel @ 12/16/2007 6:49:10 AM

    Comment: Wow, I thought the article not only significantly rings true but regrettably your whole audience has very evidently reacted in the method that you predicted. Sad, who was it that said "man is a cvilised animal who loses his temper when he is called upon to act within the dictates of reason. I have had also the misfortune to see and know families of people who were tortured, thankfully I was spared the videos (don't need the to know more) but the stories first hand are horrific because they add emotional burden. It is regrettable that such things take place, and unlike what our quick tempered friends believe it is not bound by ethnicity - I assure you that everyone doing the torturing has a very hightened sense of justice (it is amazing to me!!) and can spend hours defending his actions on why .

  • Posted By: dmateau @ 12/14/2007 10:14:29 AM

    Comment: .How dare you! Why are you on our enemy???s side? You should be ashamed to call yourself an American. How dare you compare what we do (waterboarding) to amputating people???s limbs? When it was all over the news that we were making prisoners stand around naked and wear panties on their head (Sounds like hazing at a frat house) Our enemies were chopping off journalists heads and circulating tapes of it on the internet. America is a big target and our enemies don???t play fair. If we are so politically correct that we start to become irresponsible with our security our enemies will defeat us. I, like a lot of Americans sleep very good at night knowing that there are people who probably aren???t very nice working to keep my country safe just like EVERY other country does.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA!

  • Posted By: bookmdano @ 12/13/2007 7:36:27 PM

    Comment: We are Americans you morons. The point here is that we take the moral high ground and protect peoples rights no matter how disgusting that may seem sometimes. When we start justifying our actions on torture and human rights abuses we become the scum that they are and our Bill of Rights and the Constitution go in the toilet. Did you ever study American history in H.S.? You don't throw everything away when our principals are tested. C'mon, wake up....

  • Posted By: Evolutionist @ 12/13/2007 8:21:56 AM

    Comment: I have these weapins, again to protect my self from non-americans, the blacks, and in the event of a government meltdown I can at least protect my family. The sound that the ak-47 gives off is unreal,...itll make people armed with lesser weapons of choice run for the border. the american government gives me the right to bear arms and protect the ones I love,....protect the country that I love. I dont think the Jews as a whole would die for america, they simply would move to Canada. Its the reason people like myself are THE MAJORITY,..and people like yourself are the MINORITY. If I would catch terrorists in this country trying to blow us up,...I have would gear myself up as If I were a soldier. I have 2 bullet proof vests, and ammo to last me for 1 year. I would personally take the terrorists out and risk my life so the Officers that serve this country would not be in any harm.

    • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 12/14/2007 12:36:23 PM

      Comment: Bulls*** Evolutionist....more macho crap from the man who hates Jews, blacks, women, arabs, christians, muslims, and anyone else he can think of. You would personally take out all of the terrorists so the good police officers (or did you mean military officers?) of this country would not be placed in harms way....which their job calls for by the way. If you are gonna protect all of the cops why don't you take on the task of cleaning up all of the crime in the country, singlehandedly? OR how about just the town you live in? Gotta protect people you know.
      Typical BS from you......

  • Posted By: madhuleo @ 12/13/2007 6:55:57 AM

    Comment: India too didnt lag behind in such State sponsored crimes during the Emergency period in 1975.

  • Posted By: mikeca @ 12/12/2007 9:02:01 PM

    Comment: This is what we should be fighting against..

  • Posted By: reporter21 @ 12/12/2007 7:47:49 PM

    Comment: A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words;
    www.poconocommunitynews.com

  • Posted By: zoeyd @ 12/12/2007 1:58:22 PM

    Comment: Not in my name, and don't give me any *** about 9-11. What a pathetic lot we have turned out to be, the terriorists can claim the soul of an entire nation.

  • Posted By: Evolutionist @ 12/12/2007 11:08:41 AM

    Comment: Another communist/facist/hippie, stop your crying. These people need to be shot and exucuted. Anyone that is remotely involved in US terrorism needs to be shot along with their entire family. US terrorism will not be tolerated....at all. I have a AK-47, Semi-Carbine, 40 handgun to protect myself and my family,...most importantly ....my country. What is the purpose of this article? To make the american govenment look bad? There are many Americans that are high strung over the Jew run media. The US government is doing things right, dont let a few people spoil the whole batch. No govenment is 100 perfect. Funny how Americans never hear , "Thank you for saving our ass from the Germans" Funny how after September 11 the people that "cry" had no voice...no say...and were totally muted (or beat up if they denied the war) I still remember that day...it still hurts....America and its citizens will have their revenge one day...I swear it.

    • Posted By: John Somebody @ 02/08/2008 4:12:22 AM

      Comment: The same attitude of hysterical historical Americans who've been exporting corruption and terror for many generations. A pity such terrorists haven't restricted their vigour to genuinely defending their country. If they'd have done that, they'd have found not many invaders, and found lots of usurpers.Try reading your history.

    • Posted By: danaugust @ 12/13/2007 11:08:01 AM

      Comment: Your point about the Jews is correct, but the rest is kind of a babble. You don't need guns to protect yourself from terrorim, becuase its mostly government propaganda. If you ever have to use the guns it will probably be to protect yourself from a "disturbed teenage gunman" or a common theif. Also why do you support torture? thats rediculous the same government that is torturing these "terrorist" would probably be inclined to turn its evil intentions on you for your anti-zionist beliefs. Only an immoral government tortures and this government fits the bill. I would suggest you read Dr David Dukes "Jewish Supremacism" and check out Dr Dukes web-site. You are probably a real patriot but your anger toward those who don't support the American government is self defeatist. The current American government loves Isreal more than its own people that why we are in the Middle East mess to begin with.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/12/2007 7:43:26 PM

      Comment: You know it's more likely that you will die from an accident with your handgun than from terrorism. :) So put them away. Your family is also at risk. In that case you would go to prison for about a decade. Happy Hannukah. MERRY CHRISTMAS.

      • Posted By: mikeca @ 12/12/2007 8:59:52 PM

        Comment: EVOLUTIONIST, you got an AK47, ?????????????? ?????????????????????? ??????????????? Desinged by Mikhail Kalashnikov. Is it Russian or Chinese made? You hate Jews? you like Tourchering people? You would make a good Communist.

  • Posted By: Mwalimu @ 12/12/2007 12:56:25 AM

    Comment: Did John Barry see The Ghosts of Abu Ghraib? If not, he needs to,. The images in this film are both graphic and, I suppose to some, even pornographic. What???s most disturbing about the Ghosts of Abu Ghraib is that the tortures were committed by Americans, not Iranians or Communists, and that they were authorized by the White House, by a supposedly ???Christian??? president. The wrong people were put in jail for Abu Ghraib. We need to jail the people who ordered those atrocities. Incidentally, for each innocent person we tortured at Abu Ghraib we have generated 10 terrorits.

  • Posted By: zeppo50 @ 12/11/2007 9:22:59 PM

    Comment: Since the US actually executed Japanese prisoners for waterboarding, I think it's safe to say that the torturers broke the law. Whoever ordered the acts should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Studies have consistantly shown that there is very little chance of obtaining any useful information from torture. I'd bet the victim of such torture would admit to being on the grassy knoll in Texas if they waterboarded him enough. When we stoop to torture, we are no better than the terrorists.

  • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 7:01:15 PM

    Comment: When will the responsible leaders be put into trial in Hague? And how long would their sentences be? Who are responsible? The media is too scared to discuss these issues. Bush is a bloodthirsty apeman, he needs criminal care at the highest facility.

  • Posted By: Sailfast @ 12/11/2007 2:21:37 PM

    Comment: Physical Torture, is simply with out justification. It is a violation of the Rules of War, of the Geneva Convention and the common dignity of mankind.
    That is not to say that questioning, using the Pavlovian Method or of the use of pharicology to obtain information should not be used.
    Therein there is the danger that the information gained is or has a questionable validity, however, questioning of the physical type, without reguard to the exact method, is for the same reason, virtually worthless because after a short exposure, the subject will, quite literally sell his soul to make it stop, often telling completely dilusional fabrications in a vain attempt to satisfy the questioners.

  • Posted By: scope213 @ 12/11/2007 2:20:04 PM

    Comment: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/11/agent.tapes/index.html

    end of discussion..read the article that just posted on cnn.com

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/12/2007 7:48:22 PM

      Comment: Thank you it was very interesting. I just wish (off-topic) that CNN would partner with google instead since Yahoo has handed over names of users to the Chinese government, which led to people being emprisoned for numerous years for their political views. I am boycotting Yahoo. Their main server is in China, unlike Google which runs from Hongkong.

  • Posted By: heyoka999 @ 12/11/2007 11:39:28 AM

    Comment: I was waterboarded as part of my military training....go back to sipping your latte in the comfort of your cafe...and please spare us the the BS analogy of abortion vs torture....anti abortionists are cowrds of their own conviction....please stick to the topic.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 7:09:15 PM

      Comment: Waterboarding is a sport, it's not a form of torture. These people are so disgusting. To drown someone to get information is a crime, even for north-American apemen. I am so sorry you had to go through it, and suffer from brainwashed fanatics on top of it. Seriously, where is your compassion?

    • Posted By: offshore250 @ 12/11/2007 12:35:55 PM

      Comment: Your water boarding isn't revelant. The topic is violence to other human beings. If you are ok with violence to the unborn, it is hypocritical to be bothered by torture to a few Islamic butchers. And if you don't think the 2 are related, I have some land in Florida you might like. "cowards of their own convictions" huh?

  • Posted By: offshore250 @ 12/11/2007 11:07:10 AM

    Comment: For a country that allows abortion, what is the big deal about a few terrorists being roughed up? If you can rationalize killing the most defenseless among us, your moral compass is gone so torturing terrorists should be no problem. Just watch a couple of abortions and water boarding will seem like a walk in the park.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 6:56:38 PM

      Comment: And I'm sure most surgeries make water boarding seem like a 'walk in the park'. Especially if you're squeemish. ;)

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 6:54:38 PM

      Comment: Because the fetus doesn't have any nerves or consciousness, it doesn't feel. (I am just speculating about that though, you would have to ask experts). How do you feel about torturing suspects in your area? Is that a risk you think is reasonable? Narcotics kills more people than terrorism, I'm sure it would be juste. Is that a justice system you are willing to accept?

  • Posted By: offshore250 @ 12/11/2007 10:54:43 AM

    Comment: You

  • Posted By: binthere @ 12/11/2007 9:06:47 AM

    Comment: As someone who has undergone torture in many forms, i know that my life will never be 'normal' ever again. Every tiny reminder ,be it a smell or sound, or someone who just resembles one of my torturers sends me into an abyss of terror that many times sinks me straight into a pit of deep suicidal despair. It would be a mistake for any of your readers to think the terror ends when the action stops.

  • Posted By: dogman @ 12/11/2007 8:43:30 AM

    Comment: The Law is the best way to prevent torture. Destroyed evidence is how torture is allowed to remain a tool of the powerful. We have let our democracy become a shell to authortarianism. Kidnapping people and later abandoning them in the middle of nowhere when we discover we took the wrong person-Rendition. Holding Americans in cruel and unusal detention-isolation for months if not years. Torture, secret prisions, and now destroying evidence. Could this be the policies we advocate our Arab allies to use in the Mideast?

  • Posted By: Looey323 @ 12/11/2007 4:30:32 AM

    Comment: I am wondering, after reading the comments, if the attitudes expressed have anything to do with the attacks on religion and especially on Christianity in our country in the last many years. Things like banning the Bible from Public schools, and being politically correct in keep people free from religious beliefs so someone will not be offended by hearing of right and wrong, etc.

    I wonder how many of those who made comments could actually tell me what Biblical Christianity teaches in these situations, or if American is no longer a "Christian Nation" and this is good?

    I read a Quotation once that I liked, and I think is applicable; wish I could remember by whom; perhaps someone can help? Anyhow, "America is Great because America is Good, and when America ceases to be good, she will cease to be Great." Is this not starting to happen?

    • Posted By: dogman @ 12/11/2007 9:02:09 AM

      Comment: As I understand it, aren't the military and CIA the most Ardent Christian-ists? So what is confusing us is how a President who prays hourly can advocated torture and mislead the American people with fear mongering. "If you believe in God out of fear who would surely change your mind if the devil were to appear." Stop attacking the left and condemn the right.

  • Posted By: sot_doc @ 12/11/2007 2:40:06 AM

    Comment: If you have not done so, watch the Battle of Algiers (the three disk, re-release set)!

  • Posted By: sot_doc @ 12/11/2007 2:35:20 AM

    Comment: Tortures bad, okkk!

    • Posted By: 1of1000 @ 12/11/2007 2:07:15 PM

      Comment: The wrong oriented system who brings about the situation is more to be blamed.

  • Posted By: whoislike@yahoo.com @ 12/11/2007 2:11:22 AM

    Comment: An excellent article pointing out what the truth is behind our "enhanced interrogation techniques". Each time I hear about our torturing people at our mercy, I grow more ashamed of being an American. My parents came here after the holocaust and we carried that horror with us as a family, not only the deaths, but the capricious torture that took place within the camps. My only defense against that horror swallowing my life was the ideal that I lived in the United States and that our society, insititution, and laws were constructed in such a way as to prevent abuses. Why this affects me so is now America is no better than Nazi Germany, Iranian Savak, the Soviet Union, and other purveyors of torture and tryanny. Not because the US has sunk to their level, yet, but because I now know that the USA is not a unique country, with a unique character, with a unique ideal. It is a base and gross as any other country and that city on that moral highground is now dark.

  • Posted By: navyet_94f @ 12/10/2007 11:25:52 PM

    Comment: You should be ashamed of yourself...pompus ASS! You accuse without proof our government of torture. You have NO PROOF!! I know the tapes were destroyed (haha no proof), maybe Pres. Bush was the second shooter on the grassy knowl?? Luckily for you there are dedicated Americans (unlike you) who risk their lives and miss their families so idiots like you don't get thrown in jail or disappear (like other countries). You are welcome from a military member. You are welcome, ASS.

    • Posted By: sot_doc @ 12/11/2007 2:52:54 AM

      Comment: navyet_94f is just a little confused, naive, and uninformed. navyet_94f does not yet realize that he/she is defending the freedoms that allow open debate such as this. By the way, be prepared to have a one way converstaion with the Secret Service over that Bush comment!

      • Posted By: dogman @ 12/11/2007 9:12:39 AM

        Comment: You are a disgrace to the Uniform navyet_94f. You enjoy the undermining of American law based on our founding fathers ideals, the US Constitution. Yes, there are dedicated Americans serving us in uniform. Two of which refused to torture. And that is what is happening, people are disappearing and getting threwn in jail without being told why they're in jail or having evidence brought against them. But Bush did call an independent contractor who were paid hansomly to waterboard. I think that is why we kept getting our terror alert level changed. Navy_yet you would make a good officer in blackwater.

    • Posted By: hawkmoon007 @ 12/11/2007 1:10:31 AM

      Comment: Re-read the article - No statement was ever made that torture was or was not on the destroyed tapes - nor was there any claim that he knows what is on the tapes. Look before your leap people. He writes "I THINK I know why...the head of the CIA...destroyed those two videos" and "Why do I SUSPECT this?" and "There MUST HAVE BEEN...interrogators, and an interpreter". Why am I pointing this out? Not because of semantics - because again - the point of the article wasn't to make false claims - it was to paint a picture and draw parallels to what he himself had seen. He's saying "Look, I've seen how bad torture can be and what typically ends up on these tapes...I don't know what's on there...but the fact that they were destroyed should alarm you...alarm you to the point that you realize how serious of an issue this is".

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/10/2007 11:59:40 PM

      Comment: MY god, this is the kind of people that got sent to foreign countries to pollute the environment with their existance. How can he even be in a military. Pretty telling about what the American military is like, they're probably all outcasts. I guess money doesn't always improve people or benefit a country. Talk about torture. He's living proof.

      • Posted By: dogman @ 12/11/2007 9:17:27 AM

        Comment: Hawkmoon007, water boarding has been prosecuted as torture since the turn of the 20 th century. And the good family men looked too cooly on was the point.

    • Posted By: 1of1000 @ 12/10/2007 11:56:18 PM

      Comment: There are proof but you like to be blind. If there there was no picture from Abu Gharib you were talking the same ... IDIOT.

  • Posted By: navyet_94f @ 12/10/2007 11:15:49 PM

    Comment: This story has no basis in reality. The "reporter" has no proof of what was on those tapes. He has decided to make a name for himself and obviously meet an agenda by mentioning thing he saw over 30 years ago. The CIA normally doesn't video interrogations. The tapes existence should never have been revealed. The enemy should not know our techniques. He says torture was on the tapes, no proof...just dragging the U.S. throught the mud.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 12:02:04 AM

      Comment: Well lots of people say the U.S does torture, and surely they will be punished for it, the torturers I mean.

    • Posted By: 1of1000 @ 12/10/2007 11:49:47 PM

      Comment: You'd better practice some reality.
      All professional interrogations are taped for interpretation, they are not sadist they are doing it for purpose.
      Knowing the torture procedure does not help the person under torture.
      Enemies are the abusers of power. "...the strongest man in the world is the man who stands most alone." good job!

      • Posted By: dogman @ 12/11/2007 9:19:31 AM

        Comment: 10f1000 your values are corrupted, repent.

  • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/10/2007 10:29:32 PM

    Comment: be published?

  • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/10/2007 10:08:51 PM

    Comment: This article is purely speculation that is misleading to uncritical minds. It is an example of poor journalism from a perspective of proper conduct. How can this low level of discussion that only speaks to sadisms.

  • Posted By: 1of1000 @ 12/10/2007 9:42:53 PM

    Comment: Iran in early Shah's period did not have any organized intelligence organization, And if you look at the process of bringing such methods of torture to existence you would notice those are not the methods developed in Iran at that time, those torturers were taught some where else (most probably US which had a great relation with Iran at that time). Not blaming US, but anybody has seen the Battle of Algeria would know that it is a common characteristic of all Intelligence system to behave so and later justify it. I am not shocked to hear that these are happening now in US or anywhere else, may be more sophisticated and clean but the nature is the same, to break the person under torture. So in any sense destroying the documents was a huge betrayal to humanity. I do agree that the approach of the article is much tilted to be attractive rather than informative, but may be that's the way to communicate with people in this brave new world.

  • Posted By: 1of1000 @ 12/10/2007 9:42:10 PM

    Comment: Iran in early Shah's period did not have any organized intelligence organization, And if you look at the process of bringing such methods of torture to existence you would notice those are not the methods developed in Iran at that time, those torturers were taught some where else (most probably US which had a great relation with Iran at that time). Not blaming US, but anybody has seen the Battle of Algeria would know that it is a common characteristic of all Intelligence system to behave so and later justify it. I am not shocked to hear that these are happening now in US or anywhere else, may be more sophisticated and clean but the nature is the same, to break the person under torture. So in any sense destroying the documents was a huge betrayal to humanity. I do agree that the approach of the article is much tilted to be attractive rather than informative, but may be that's the way to communicate with people in this brave new world.

  • Posted By: hawkmoon007 @ 12/10/2007 8:44:25 PM

    Comment: Many are missing the point here. This isn't an article about taking sides - it's an article about how serious torture is. Regardless of if and when and where and how and to what extent it's used (be it as the reporter himself experienced, waterboarding, or whatever actually transpired in those tapes), the point is that we should treat the use of torture very seriously and not let ourselves become complacent and apathetic when politicians and the media attempt to lessen the impact of it by their use of anasthetic vocabulary. Nothing should ever be swept under the rug. In a civilized, democratic society, whether we condone the use of torture or not, WE as a people need to come to a consensus on EXACTLY how we stand and not let it be controlled by a handful of elitists that destroy tapes and sweep the details under the rug. We need transparency, and we need to decide as a whole, do we want torture or not? If we do, how much is okay? How much evidence do we need before subjecting someone to it? The only thing that is certain is that we can't allow for the possibility that potentially innocent or at least semi-innocent people are being dismembered or worse without our knowledge and without our consent....enough said.

    • Posted By: navyet_94f @ 12/10/2007 11:21:33 PM

      Comment: We aren't missing the point. If the author of this article just talked about the horrors of torture that is fine. He made statements that torture was on the video tapes. There is no proof of torture...zero, yes the answer is we will never know because the destroyed the tapes. The tapes' existence shouldn't even be known..period. It is called intelligence, counter-intelligence, and you don't want the enemy to know our techniques (I'm not talking torture, but coersion, lying, and manipulation). I have fought in the war, these are serious peopel we are dealing with. I am not saying we should torture, but you don't give them ammo to use on this country......period.

      • Posted By: hawkmoon007 @ 12/11/2007 1:07:21 AM

        Comment: Re-read the article - No statement was ever made that torture was or was not on the destroyed tapes - nor was there any claim that he knows what is on the tapes. Look before your leap people. He writes "I THINK I know why...the head of the CIA...destroyed those two videos" and "Why do I SUSPECT this?" and "There MUST HAVE BEEN...interrogators, and an interpreter". Why am I pointing this out? Not because of semantics - because again - the point of the article wasn't to make false claims - it was to paint a picture and draw parallels to what he himself had seen. He's saying "Look, I've seen how bad torture can be and what typically ends up on these tapes...I don't know what's on there...but the fact that they were destroyed should alarm you...alarm you to the point that you realize how serious of an issue this is".

      • Posted By: 1of1000 @ 12/11/2007 12:16:25 AM

        Comment: I am not saying they should publish all videos they have publicly, but there is no justification on destroying those videos. Experts can judge if it was torture or not. Obviously something has gone terribly wrong.

  • Posted By: jsmith242 @ 12/10/2007 6:49:49 PM

    Comment: i dont believe in or condone any kind of torture, just good journalism but this article clearly crosses the boundaries when comparing the forms the journalist watched. and for the wackos claiming the real terrorists are in the white house or that 9/11 was a government conspiracy you're making the left look like idiots

  • Posted By: jsmith242 @ 12/10/2007 6:39:57 PM

    Comment: how can you compare the anal rape and dismemberment to what you're admittedly guessing here? stop the sensationalist journalism and stick to the facts your comparisons are beyond a stretch....

  • Posted By: visitor @ 12/10/2007 6:35:30 PM

    Comment: The true terrorists are in the white house.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/10/2007 10:40:41 PM

      Comment: I agree that going over to attack Iraq when there has been a problem from Afganistan by Pakistanis shows a volatility that is excessively violent to the entire world. Thousands of people have had their rights violated brutally with unrelated non-sensical motivations. There seems to be no end to this uncontrolled, brutal gorillas audacity and late teenage J.R. rebellion. He will go to hell after he's been to the Haague tribunal.

  • Posted By: visitor @ 12/10/2007 6:34:43 PM

    Comment: The true terrorists are in the white house as we speak.

  • Posted By: diamondk @ 12/10/2007 6:30:40 PM

    Comment: The fact that violence can be categorized as pornography in its primary meaning is sickening. It's not clear from the article how videos of torture are pornographic and how that in itself influenced distruction of the CIA tapes. I think he is correct in relating the two. The "pornography of violence" commonplace in media has eroded our national values in a manner far worse than pornography in the traditional sense.

  • Posted By: ajones55 @ 12/10/2007 6:09:08 PM

    Comment: What is sad is when people in the military US Seanators who has been there and knows what torture is all about comes out against it. Then you have people who have never served a day in the Boy Scouts calling everyone a liberal who doesn't support these methods of interogation. Wow some people are just plain stupid!

  • Posted By: ajones55 @ 12/10/2007 6:07:59 PM

    Comment: What is sad is when people in the military like Senator Mcain who knows what torture is all about comes out against it. Then you have people who have never served a day in the Boy Scouts calling everyone a liberal who doesn't support these methods of interogation. Wow some people are just plain stupid!

  • Posted By: zellison @ 12/10/2007 5:52:27 PM

    Comment: There has never been any acceptable explanation of how much intellegence has really been gained. It is most probably junk because a person being tortured will say anything you want them to say, accurate or inaccurate. It is highly unlikely that one person has been saved through the use of torture. You never hear any facts around that point. America must stop sinking this low.... we are better people than this.

  • Posted By: johnsonism @ 12/10/2007 5:50:07 PM

    Comment: I don't understand... if we're mature enough to condone torture, aren't we mature enough to see it practiced? Anyone who is comfortable with waterboarding should be in a fury over the destruction of these tapes.

  • Posted By: zellison @ 12/10/2007 5:49:24 PM

    Comment: There has never been any acceptable explanation of how much intellegence has really been gained. It is most probably junk because a person being tortured will say anything you want them to say, accurate or inaccurate. It is highly unlikely that one person has been saved through the use of torture. You never hear any facts around that point. America must stop sinking this low.... we are better people than this.

  • Posted By: johnsonism @ 12/10/2007 5:49:10 PM

    Comment: I don't understand... if we're mature enough to condone torture, aren't we mature enough to see it practiced? Anyone who is comfortable with waterboarding should be in a fury over the destruction of these tapes.

  • Posted By: wordwyvern @ 12/10/2007 5:48:10 PM

    Comment: Ok. Now we know what's more obscene, uglier, more disgusting than torture. Its the knuckle-draggers who support it.

  • Posted By: wordwyvern @ 12/10/2007 5:45:22 PM

    Comment: OK, now we know what's more disgusting, more pornographic than the torture. Its the knuckle-dragging idiots who support it.

  • Posted By: pauz21 @ 12/10/2007 5:44:35 PM

    Comment: I really DO care. My ethics and morals say that torture is wrong. I have a grip - a grip on a reality that does not include incessant revenge warfare. What is America if not the ideals of freedom and lawful process written in the constitution? That is the America I would like to see held up as THE example of freedom. Torture has no place in a free America.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/10/2007 11:41:31 PM

      Comment: Um what about outside America? The other 95%?

  • Posted By: Big Brother Loather @ 12/10/2007 5:41:02 PM

    Comment: It is ironic that George Orwell is used as a reference. The use of such torture serves to desensitize citizens to the true horror of torture. How the term "enemy" is used is crucial as well. What happens when someone who is considered too patriotic, too unpatriotic, too conservative, too liberal, too religious, too atheistic or too concerned about torture is considered an enemy of the state? It might happen soon, but the more desensitized citizens become, the more likely it can happen in 15 to 20 years. Long live freedom.

  • Posted By: ProudLiberal @ 12/10/2007 5:37:26 PM

    Comment: To all the RangerBill(s): Why do you always resort to personal attacks? Your argument is absurd. Most parents do help pay for college. Isn't that what we celebrate in America -- the freedom and bounty we have. Have your parents provided nothing for you? Perhaps that's why you come across so cynical and bitter. Plus, what difference does it make. Do you apply the same "silver spoon" standard to Bush or Cheney.

    We could do a tit for tat thing here and I could say that perhaps your parents could have offered you an education so that you might have a broader education to use as a resource in making your absurd points. But, you're too easy of a target. It's so tired to use labels like "intellects" and "liberals" to villify someone. Next time you pray -- think about who you're praying to. I think Jesus wouldn't approve of torture or war or the way we are conducting ourselves as a nation.

    What kind of society are we creating when we villify someone for being caring "bleeding heart liberals" and we rationalize beating up or killing someone for information. Seems like we took Saddam out for the same tactics. What hypocrisy!

    When did education and compassion become a bad "liberal" sensibility? I thought they were noble human attributes. Step back and try to objectively look at your argument -- it's shockingly disturbing.

    • Posted By: RangerBill @ 12/11/2007 12:22:32 AM

      Comment: BTW, brainiac, Cheney is the son of a Soil Conservation Agent for the US Dept of Agriculture--- worked his way through college... humble beginnings. Of course, obviously Bush does come from an austere background. My comment to Johnsonium was not to condemn parental support, it's to point out that opinions not based in any sort of experience are of dubious value. His silence to my questions confirms my hypothesis.

    • Posted By: RangerBill @ 12/11/2007 12:12:10 AM

      Comment: 4-year Army scholarship to Virginia Military Institute, MBA from Boston University, 11 years in the US Army, where I attained the rank of Major... now I am a Vice President at a major financial institution... ProudLiberal--- you ARE a genius, aren't you!!? The funny thing about libs is that my messages, were "personal, cynical attacks"... did you even read what Johnsonium was writing about the military??? And, people who serve? No, of course not, because it doesn't suit your agenda.

    • Posted By: jweiss0001 @ 12/10/2007 5:50:59 PM

      Comment: I agree with you all life matters, even the life of an unborn child. The reason the rest of us can not stand liberals is because you selectively apply your absurdity. There is only one hypocrite in this conversation that is the one that cares more about the life of a blood thirsty murderer than that of a helpless child. Sad!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: Big Brother Loather @ 12/10/2007 5:34:54 PM

    Comment: The reference to Orwell is timely. How one's enemy is defined can be a slippery slope. What if our government chooses to see all protest as an act of war. One could end up on the water board for being too conservative, too liberal, too religious, too atheistic, too patriotic, too unpatriotic. If there isn't a stop put to this and no one speaks up, then all Americans be put at risk. It might not happen soon, but the desensitization to such treatment of human beings will make it likely in 20 to 30 years.

  • Posted By: joetod @ 12/10/2007 5:33:21 PM

    Comment: I still remember seeing Americans jumping for the World Trade Center...I rember Pearl Harbor and the Americans we would do anything to proctect her from our enemies. The motto know is let's be kind to our enemies. How quickly we forget....in seeing them beheading on of us. Let's get a grip and study history and remember what it would be like for us and our families if the enemy ever conquers the USA. You don't want to even go there.

  • Posted By: joetod @ 12/10/2007 5:25:29 PM

    Comment: I really don't care...I still have visions of Americans jumping for the trade center. Get a grip.

    I love America and we should do everything to protect her.

  • Posted By: Oldaq @ 12/10/2007 5:13:51 PM

    Comment: One of the problems in this debate is that the US has a paradox between its self-perception (we are the good guys) and its fears (you are with us or against us), One believes freedom and human rights are the biggest tenant. The second one may come form the Manifest Destiny ideology, we are the choosed ones, therefore all we do is justified.

    Torture is one of those topics that forces a confrontaiton and the resolution of the paradox. You cannot have it both ways in this topic. You are against (case number 1) or you use it as a mean to a nobler, bigger, better, etc. end.

    Is one right and the other one wrong? Depends on your ethics and morals. The thing is you need to accept the consequences of either decision. First oen is a long term approach as a guide to the world, through which you may be hurt. The other one gives a sense of safety (important in our reptilian brain) but creates enemies on one hand and also helps others to justify the same acts (in contradiction with the first one).

    I preffer option 1, although I understand that 2 is far easier to implement and show results to the "histerical masses". One problem with 2 is that the definition of "them" is very fluid.

    Why will people do torture? Are tortures really sick people? Not really, that is why 2 is easy to do. Read about the "Milgram Experiments" or the "Stanford Prision experiments".

    • Posted By: joetod @ 12/10/2007 5:42:36 PM

      Comment: You must be from Harvard and never served your Country...nice words that you can site from you Ivory Tower...I have a gut feeling that you would be the first to throw you hands up and surrender.

      • Posted By: Oldaq @ 12/10/2007 6:37:02 PM

        Comment: Wrong and wrong. All I do is to believe in accountability. Everything has consequences. It is not a right and wrong issue. Choose one but do not expect the results from the other.

        I come from a place where +25K people can be wiped without a question (only 10K if you believe the official numbers), a mass grave, a few comments and all is forgotten. They were different from us, so who cares.

        I have been on both sides of that fence and option 2 will make you feel better on the short time. Grab another person, think of them as an animal and make them pay for your pain. It is emotionally satisfying on the short term, but the pain (which may not be real, you just associate yourself with others misery) will still be there.

        Believing in humanism means you do not surrender as you imply, you have to kill another person in self-defense, but they are always a person.

        There is no right or wrong in here, you can do whatever you want, as social morality or your ethics dictate. Just remember, crazy is one that does one thing and expects a different result..

        My point is that a lot of people want it all, do wrong for a bigger cause and it is right, you will be safe, etc.

  • Posted By: zdhonda93 @ 12/10/2007 5:11:32 PM

    Comment: maybe we should start waterboarding bush and cheney, get some true answers to their involvement in the attacks on 9/11, come on people, the true terrorists are in the white house as we speak.

  • Posted By: zdhonda93 @ 12/10/2007 5:10:01 PM

    Comment: maybe we should start waterboarding bush and cheney, to get the real answers as to what happened on 9/11, come on people, the real terrorist are in the white house as we speak.

  • Posted By: newage_lightbulb @ 12/10/2007 5:07:12 PM

    Comment: "How much do you have to delude yourself in order to torture another human being "

    None at all. It's called war.

  • Posted By: newage_lightbulb @ 12/10/2007 5:06:25 PM

    Comment: "If we had not gone into Iraq, and had instead only gone into Afghanistan - it could have been called justified, and we might have even gained credibility."

    Nonsense. This myth is constantly preached by liberals - it's the same trick they're always running, pretending that 'credibility'

  • Posted By: MellyMel @ 12/10/2007 5:04:41 PM

    Comment: How much do you have to delude yourself in order to torture another human being and then go home at night and sleep peacefully knowing that it was "ok" and "necessary." I don't care if the person is guilty as Satan; they are still a person. They feel like a person, cry like one, scream like one, die like one. In order to torture and kill people who torture and kill people, you have to adopt their mentality to some degree, and in a sense that makes you just like them. How do you establish that cognitive dissonance. How can you live with yourself if you would do that to another human being? I can barely psych myself up to watch fake torture on television...I couldn't imagine doing it in real life, and I wouldn't want to know anybody that did...It's disturbing...mentally.

  • Posted By: FLNATIVE @ 12/10/2007 5:03:37 PM

    Comment: Reading articles like this makes me sick to my stomach. All the bleedin heart liberals in this country who are worried about the "rights" of terrorists who's sole purpose is to destroy our way of life. I'm tired of hearing how the interrogation techniques are "not fair", cruel, and unusual punishment. What was fair about the innocent Americans who were beheaded with a knife by these a--holes and the video published on the Internet? What was fair about the hundreds of innocent victims in the Twin Towers who lost their lives on 9/11. I think all the people who think that using alternative methods of interrogating terrorists (and I would venture to say that the majority of them are KNOWN terrorists) move over to Iraq or Iran and see how long they last. I'm thankful that we have men and women in the military who are willing to go over there and fight for our freedoms.

    • Posted By: johnpp2 @ 12/10/2007 10:53:31 PM

      Comment: And which branch of the government do you work for again?

    • Posted By: johnpp2 @ 12/10/2007 10:53:25 PM

      Comment: And which branch of the government do you work for again?

  • Posted By: MellyMel @ 12/10/2007 5:03:18 PM

    Comment: How much do you have to delude yourself in order to torture another human being and then go home at night and sleep peacefully knowing that it was "ok" and "necessary." I don't care if the person is guilty as Satan; they are still a person. They feel like a person, cry like one, scream like one, die like one. In order to torture and kill people who torture and kill people, you have to adopt their mentality to some degree, and in a sense that makes you just like them. How do you establish that cognitive dissonance. How can you live with yourself if you would do that to another human being? I can barely psych myself up to watch fake torture on television...I couldn't imagine doing it in real life, and I wouldn't want to know anybody that did...It's disturbing...mentally.

  • Posted By: cellojazz @ 12/10/2007 4:58:49 PM

    Comment: I hate droden. Way to jump the gun and outright dismiss them as "non torture tapes". Then to imply those tapes aren't as brutal as those the author witnessed decades ago. We've caught many men, and denied all of them the human rights that we try to champion around the world. Our status and standing has broken in just a couple years. We gave up tremendous amounts of political posture. If we had not gone into Iraq, and had instead only gone into Afghanistan - it could have been called justified, and we might have even gained credibility. Should we have put a gun to the entire region that we had already disaffect through generations of misinformation and hatred. Torture is wrong. For you to deny what you haven't seen, and not be outraged that we now have no way of verifying what our government is doing to other human beings is completely unconscionable. If you are a government employee being tasked with rebutting this article, you deserve the country you are creating.

  • Posted By: FLNATIVE @ 12/10/2007 4:58:02 PM

    Comment: Reading articles like this sickens my stomach. It's not fair to use "torture" techniques to elicit information from terrorist suspects, yet, it's fair for those a--holes to behead innocent Americans on video and post it on the Internet for all to see. I guess it's "fair" what happened to all the innocent victims in the Twin Towers on 9/11. I guess it's fair to the hundreds of families that lost loved ones during that tragic day. Enough of this bleeding heart liberal crap. If you need information from a terrorist and you need to revert to "torture" to get it....go for it.

  • Posted By: jweiss0001 @ 12/10/2007 4:54:23 PM

    Comment: I would like to know how in the world Mr Barry can refer to Khaleed Sheik Muhammed and Abu Zabaydah as "Alleged Al Qaida Operatives". The problems with people like Mr Barry is their memory is way to short and they feel a need to blame everyone one but the actual terrorists. I assume Mr Barry feels the fact that these were two of the people who were responsible for the destruction of the WTC and the Pentagon means nothing. We should put these people in a pretty cell and make sure they get all of their vitamins. Lest Mr Barry and his cohorts forget there were 3000 people killed on 9/11. We did not cause that they did. There are times and people that deserve to be punished and when attacks can be immanent we need to do whatever has to be done to get the information. I assume Mr Barry has a problem with us dropping the Bomb on Japan in WWII, he would have much rather had another 50,000 US Soldiers die just to do the "legal" thing. 9/11 did not bring us to this; our enemies have brought us to this point. We need to stand up and not shrink like Mr Barry wants us to. I guess Mr Barry would have a problem if the ???Water Boarding??? was used to thwart a terrorist attack that may have saved a life of a loved one of his. Mr. Barry does not include in his description of torture videos the films that were shown to us of Muslim Terrorists beheading innocent Americans. I assume he has left those out because he blames us for that as well. Fortunately for us there are men and women in this country that respect the threat and are not afraid to do the right thing to protect us. Appeasement only makes the problem much greater and worse. Shame on you Mr Barry!!!!!!!1

  • Posted By: jweiss0001 @ 12/10/2007 4:54:09 PM

    Comment: I would like to know how in the world Mr Barry can refer to Khaleed Sheik Muhammed and Abu Zabaydah as "Alleged Al Qaida Operatives". The problems with people like Mr Barry is their memory is way to short and they feel a need to blame everyone one but the actual terrorists. I assume Mr Barry feels the fact that these were two of the people who were responsible for the destruction of the WTC and the Pentagon means nothing. We should put these people in a pretty cell and make sure they get all of their vitamins. Lest Mr Barry and his cohorts forget there were 3000 people killed on 9/11. We did not cause that they did. There are times and people that deserve to be punished and when attacks can be immanent we need to do whatever has to be done to get the information. I assume Mr Barry has a problem with us dropping the Bomb on Japan in WWII, he would have much rather had another 50,000 US Soldiers die just to do the "legal" thing. 9/11 did not bring us to this; our enemies have brought us to this point. We need to stand up and not shrink like Mr Barry wants us to. I guess Mr Barry would have a problem if the ???Water Boarding??? was used to thwart a terrorist attack that may have saved a life of a loved one of his. Mr. Barry does not include in his description of torture videos the films that were shown to us of Muslim Terrorists beheading innocent Americans. I assume he has left those out because he blames us for that as well. Fortunately for us there are men and women in this country that respect the threat and are not afraid to do the right thing to protect us. Appeasement only makes the problem much greater and worse. Shame on you Mr Barry!!!!!!!1

  • Posted By: drorlen @ 12/10/2007 4:50:09 PM

    Comment: oops sorry I triple posted

  • Posted By: abzclmail @ 12/10/2007 4:48:23 PM

    Comment: In a world where no one seems to want to play fair. It is that much more critical of us as a society to lead by example and not stoop to those methods. It is this level of integrity that we can only hope will one day work its way into the hearts of those that think they need to do these horrible things. How are we to impose our ways onto others if we become a lesser evil that is still in some way evil. It is only through understanding and education of the masses that we might eventually realize the dream we all hope will come true.

  • Posted By: drorlen @ 12/10/2007 4:47:36 PM

    Comment: I hate Newsweek. Way to jump the gun and outright call them 'torture tapes'. Then to imply those tapes are as brutal as those you witnessed decades ago. We caught the man that planned 9/11 in Pakistan years ago. He was waterboarded and broke in a minute. He gave up a tremendous amount of information. If forces had shot him dead because he drew a weapon apon his capture that would have been legal as it would have been in self defense. But what do we do in self defense when captured people have information that can and will harm us? Should we have politely asked him to give us information that could have saved lives? Torture is wrong, but as of now there is NO proof that what was on those tapes constituted torture and there were members of both parties and members of the govt that viewed and 'ok'ed their destruction. For you to call them 'torture tapes' and compare them to acts of inhumane brutal bloodetting and physical pain is grossly irresponsible.

    • Posted By: johnpp2 @ 12/10/2007 11:06:37 PM

      Comment: If we caught the man who planned 9/11, why hasn't the public been able to hear the enlightening story he must have told upon breaking under water torture? How exactly was it that a crude network of terrorists managed to defeat our NORAD defense systems--the systems for which we sacrifice almost 40% of our incomes so that we can feel cozy and safe? Who screwed up 9/11 so that a bumbling commercial airliner could perform an incredible aerial maneuver and strike arguably the most well-defensed building in the world? And why haven't they been exposed and then fired or jailed? Come on, you can't even give me one scapegoat? That's pathetic! Osama BAD! Bush GOOD!! Pass the mashed 'taters, Bubba!!!

  • Posted By: drorlen @ 12/10/2007 4:46:59 PM

    Comment: I hate Newsweek. Way to jump the gun and outright call them 'torture tapes'. Then to imply those tapes are as brutal as those you witnessed decades ago. We caught the man that planned 9/11 in Pakistan years ago. He was waterboarded and broke in a minute. He gave up a tremendous amount of information. If forces had shot him dead because he drew a weapon apon his capture that would have been legal as it would have been in self defense. But what do we do in self defense when captured people have information that can and will harm us? Should we have politely asked him to give us information that could have saved lives? Torture is wrong, but as of now there is NO proof that what was on those tapes constituted torture and there were members of both parties and members of the govt that viewed and 'ok'ed their destruction. For you to call them 'torture tapes' and compare them to acts of inhumane brutal bloodetting and physical pain is grossly irresponsible.

  • Posted By: drorlen @ 12/10/2007 4:45:02 PM

    Comment: I hate Newsweek. Way to jump the gun and outright call them 'torture tapes'. Then to imply those tapes are as brutal as those you witnessed decades ago. We caught the man that planned 9/11 in Pakistan years ago. He was waterboarded and broke in a minute. He gave up a tremendous amount of information. If forces had shot him dead because he drew a weapon apon his capture that would have been legal as it would have been in self defense. But what do we do in self defense when captured people have information that can and will harm us? Should we have politely asked him to give us information that could have saved lives? Torture is wrong, but as of now there is NO proof that what was on those tapes constituted torture and there were members of both parties and members of the govt that viewed and 'ok'ed their destruction. For you to call them 'torture tapes' and compare them to acts of inhumane brutal bloodetting and physical pain is grossly irresponsible.

  • Posted By: bbmyls2go @ 12/10/2007 4:43:36 PM

    Comment: odd, the link to this story was "what its like to watch THE CIA torture tapes", yet the writer DID NOT watch THE CIA tapes and thus has no credibilityy in declaring the content as being about torture. His story is about foreign torture that occured more than THREE DECADES AGO.
    I love all the speculation and lack of knowlege yet Newsweek feels comfortable posting drivel like this as well as use of a "photo illustration" to further their not so subtle point of view. I expect crap like that in a blog, not in Newsweek.

  • Posted By: mikecobb @ 12/10/2007 4:27:54 PM

    Comment: If you support the torture of prisoners then you must also accept the torture and execution of American Service men captured in this war and future wars. There is no ambiguity. That is what McCain and the Military leadership understand...the approval of torture is a death sentence for many future and current Prisoners of War. Most of what I am reading on the post, in support of our governments actions, is merely a lust for revenge with no practical argument to sustain such practices. These people that are in support of such actions should no longer express anger or dismay at the harsh treatment and means of execution that our servicemen who are captured in battle must endure; it is simply THEIR JOB!

    • Posted By: offshore250 @ 12/11/2007 6:32:49 PM

      Comment: The Islamic butchers were already killing our warriors along with indiscriminate slaughter of their own citizens long before our entry into Iraq or elsewhere and long before there was any water boarding. These are savage barbarians and the so called Geneva Convention or any other rules of the civilized world mean nothing to them. If a little torture will help us get rid of this scourge and save American lives, then so be it. If the rest of the world persists in this political correctness nonsense, they will have to deal with their own Islamic nightmare.

  • Posted By: swanie @ 12/10/2007 4:25:26 PM

    Comment: Transgressors that put God???s organ out of tune, that discompose and tear the body of man with violence, are those inhuman persecutors who with racks and tortures and prisons and fires and exquisite inquisitions throw down the bodies of the true God???s servants to the idolatrous worship of their imaginary gods, that torture men into Hell and carry them through the inquisition into damnation. St Augustine moves a question, and institutes a disputation, and carries it somewhat problematically, whether torture be to be admitted at all, or no. That presents a fair probability which he says against it. We presume, says he, that an innocent man should accuse himself, by confession, in torture. And if an innocent man be able to do so, why should we not think that a guilty man, who shall save his life by holding his tongue in torture, should be able to do so?

    And then, where is the use of torture? It is a slippery trial and uncertain (says Ulpian) to convince by torture. For many says (says St Augustine again) he that is yet but questioned, whether he be guilty or no, before that be known, is, without all question, miserably tortured. And whereas, many time, the passion of the Judge, and the covetousness of the Judge, and the ambition of the Judge, are calamities heavy enough upon a man that is accused. If the Judge knew that he were innocent, he should suffer nothing. If he knew he were guilty, he should not suffer torture. But because the Judge is ignorant and knows nothing, therefore the prisoner must be racked and tortured and mangled.

    Preached at St. Paul's Cathedral in London in 1865 ! ! How times DO NOT change . . . . . . . . .

  • Posted By: swanie @ 12/10/2007 4:24:31 PM

    Comment: Anything that threatens the perceived dependency and trust between the subject and interrogator directly threatens the value of interrogation as an intelligence-gathering tool. Even seemingly minor interruptions can have profound psychological impacts on the delicate subject-interrogator relationship. Any insertion of counsel into the subject-interrogator relationship, for example -- even if only for a limited duration or for a specific purpose -- can undo months of work and may permanently shut down the interrogation process. Therefore, it is critical to minimize external influences on the interrogation process.

    By "external influences," he means the rule of law, the Geneva Conventions, the US Treaty obligations, and the Constitution. Marty goes on:

    The Solicitor General even placed the Jacoby Declaration in the Appendix in the Padilla/Hamdi cases, and cited it liberally in support of its argument to the Court that the Administration should be entitled to detain persons not only for purposes of incapacitation, but also for purposes of long-term interrogations.

    That is why, just as the Jacoby Declaration is the single most revealing document released by the government in the conflict against al Qaeda, so, too, the single most important sentence in any of the Supreme Court's decisions in the al Qaeda cases was a stark rejection of the government's rationale -- indeed, a remarkable rebuke to the Jacoby Declaration -- in Justice O'Connor's controlling opinion in Hamdi. After explaining at length that the laws of war and the Authorization for Use of Military Force permit detention for purposes of incapacitating combatants, Justice O'Connor wrote (542 U.S. at 521):

    "Certainly, we agree that indefinite detention for the purpose of interrogation is not authorized."

    No citation offered, because none should be needed. "Certainly."

    Alas, certainty that we still live in a republic governed by the law is no longer possible.

  • Posted By: johnpp2 @ 12/10/2007 4:11:31 PM

    Comment: The American public needs to see those images. And they need to see the images of dismembered Iraqi children caught in the crossfire of our illegal war. If they aren't willing to face the images, themselves, then they shouldn't be voting and paying for other people to do it. War is a last resort, and it should not be authorized lightly, especially not for the purpose of increasing corporate profits.

  • Posted By: mikecobb @ 12/10/2007 4:10:55 PM

    Comment: I was on the fence regarding "torture" but no more....I will vigorously oppose any type of coercsion by our government....it is not American nor does it illicit valuable information....the victum would say anything to stop the pain. And as I understand waterboarding it is not "simulated" drowning it is actual drowning and resuscitation...a process originally developed by the Spanish Inquisition. As with any process the torturer wil