Watching Torture

A reporter's reflections on 'the pornography of violence.'

By John Barry | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Dec 10, 2007 | Updated: 1:37  p.m. ET Dec 10, 2007

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  • Posted By: John Somebody @ 02/08/2008 4:28:59 AM

    Any nation state that needs to practice genocidal acts of ethnic "cleansing" in order to exist, has no right to exist. Any nation state that supports such a terrorist genocidal state, (Israel for instance), should get what it's got coming. If that nation state (U.S., forn instance) has a history of exporting terror and corruption, (again the U.S.), then they've got even more to reap of what they've sown. The pity is that innocents get killed as well, which gives the terrorists with tanks and F16's etc. a further excuse to rampage , shouting, " They attacked us first". Note how even now, some Americans still think that Iraq had somehting to do with Al Quaida, before the U.S. invaded Iraq for the second time.

  • Posted By: Evolutionist @ 12/12/2007 11:08:41 AM

    Another communist/facist/hippie, stop your crying. These people need to be shot and exucuted. Anyone that is remotely involved in US terrorism needs to be shot along with their entire family. US terrorism will not be tolerated....at all. I have a AK-47, Semi-Carbine, 40 handgun to protect myself and my family,...most importantly ....my country. What is the purpose of this article? To make the american govenment look bad? There are many Americans that are high strung over the Jew run media. The US government is doing things right, dont let a few people spoil the whole batch. No govenment is 100 perfect. Funny how Americans never hear , "Thank you for saving our ass from the Germans" Funny how after September 11 the people that "cry" had no voice...no say...and were totally muted (or beat up if they denied the war) I still remember that day...it still hurts....America and its citizens will have their revenge one day...I swear it.

    • Posted By: John Somebody @ 02/08/2008 4:12:22 AM

      The same attitude of hysterical historical Americans who've been exporting corruption and terror for many generations. A pity such terrorists haven't restricted their vigour to genuinely defending their country. If they'd have done that, they'd have found not many invaders, and found lots of usurpers.Try reading your history.

    • Posted By: danaugust @ 12/13/2007 11:08:01 AM

      Your point about the Jews is correct, but the rest is kind of a babble. You don't need guns to protect yourself from terrorim, becuase its mostly government propaganda. If you ever have to use the guns it will probably be to protect yourself from a "disturbed teenage gunman" or a common theif. Also why do you support torture? thats rediculous the same government that is torturing these "terrorist" would probably be inclined to turn its evil intentions on you for your anti-zionist beliefs. Only an immoral government tortures and this government fits the bill. I would suggest you read Dr David Dukes "Jewish Supremacism" and check out Dr Dukes web-site. You are probably a real patriot but your anger toward those who don't support the American government is self defeatist. The current American government loves Isreal more than its own people that why we are in the Middle East mess to begin with.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/12/2007 7:43:26 PM

      You know it's more likely that you will die from an accident with your handgun than from terrorism. :) So put them away. Your family is also at risk. In that case you would go to prison for about a decade. Happy Hannukah. MERRY CHRISTMAS.

      • Posted By: mikeca @ 12/12/2007 8:59:52 PM

        EVOLUTIONIST, you got an AK47, ?????????????? ?????????????????????? ??????????????? Desinged by Mikhail Kalashnikov. Is it Russian or Chinese made? You hate Jews? you like Tourchering people? You would make a good Communist.

  • Posted By: tcherchel @ 12/16/2007 6:50:23 AM

    Wow, I thought the article not only significantly rings true but regrettably your whole audience has very evidently reacted in the method that you predicted. Sad, who was it that said "man is a cvilised animal who loses his temper when he is called upon to act within the dictates of reason. I have had also the misfortune to see and know families of people who were tortured, thankfully I was spared the videos (don't need the to know more) but the stories first hand are horrific because they add emotional burden. It is regrettable that such things take place, and unlike what our quick tempered friends believe it is not bound by ethnicity - I assure you that everyone doing the torturing has a very hightened sense of justice (it is amazing to me!!) and can spend hours defending his actions on why .

  • Posted By: tcherchel @ 12/16/2007 6:49:10 AM

    Wow, I thought the article not only significantly rings true but regrettably your whole audience has very evidently reacted in the method that you predicted. Sad, who was it that said "man is a cvilised animal who loses his temper when he is called upon to act within the dictates of reason. I have had also the misfortune to see and know families of people who were tortured, thankfully I was spared the videos (don't need the to know more) but the stories first hand are horrific because they add emotional burden. It is regrettable that such things take place, and unlike what our quick tempered friends believe it is not bound by ethnicity - I assure you that everyone doing the torturing has a very hightened sense of justice (it is amazing to me!!) and can spend hours defending his actions on why .

  • Posted By: Evolutionist @ 12/13/2007 8:21:56 AM

    I have these weapins, again to protect my self from non-americans, the blacks, and in the event of a government meltdown I can at least protect my family. The sound that the ak-47 gives off is unreal,...itll make people armed with lesser weapons of choice run for the border. the american government gives me the right to bear arms and protect the ones I love,....protect the country that I love. I dont think the Jews as a whole would die for america, they simply would move to Canada. Its the reason people like myself are THE MAJORITY,..and people like yourself are the MINORITY. If I would catch terrorists in this country trying to blow us up,...I have would gear myself up as If I were a soldier. I have 2 bullet proof vests, and ammo to last me for 1 year. I would personally take the terrorists out and risk my life so the Officers that serve this country would not be in any harm.

    • Posted By: angelus1967 @ 12/14/2007 12:36:23 PM

      Bulls*** Evolutionist....more macho crap from the man who hates Jews, blacks, women, arabs, christians, muslims, and anyone else he can think of. You would personally take out all of the terrorists so the good police officers (or did you mean military officers?) of this country would not be placed in harms way....which their job calls for by the way. If you are gonna protect all of the cops why don't you take on the task of cleaning up all of the crime in the country, singlehandedly? OR how about just the town you live in? Gotta protect people you know.
      Typical BS from you......

  • Posted By: dmateau @ 12/14/2007 10:14:29 AM

    .How dare you! Why are you on our enemy???s side? You should be ashamed to call yourself an American. How dare you compare what we do (waterboarding) to amputating people???s limbs? When it was all over the news that we were making prisoners stand around naked and wear panties on their head (Sounds like hazing at a frat house) Our enemies were chopping off journalists heads and circulating tapes of it on the internet. America is a big target and our enemies don???t play fair. If we are so politically correct that we start to become irresponsible with our security our enemies will defeat us. I, like a lot of Americans sleep very good at night knowing that there are people who probably aren???t very nice working to keep my country safe just like EVERY other country does.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA!

  • Posted By: bookmdano @ 12/13/2007 7:36:27 PM

    We are Americans you morons. The point here is that we take the moral high ground and protect peoples rights no matter how disgusting that may seem sometimes. When we start justifying our actions on torture and human rights abuses we become the scum that they are and our Bill of Rights and the Constitution go in the toilet. Did you ever study American history in H.S.? You don't throw everything away when our principals are tested. C'mon, wake up....

  • Posted By: jcreight @ 12/10/2007 2:04:41 PM

    How in the world can this author jump from having seen two torture films to surety that that is waht the CIA was doing in those films. I've seen more than my share of animated Disney films - can I conclude that the tapes include scenes of 7 dwarves singing?

    Poorly written and unsupported logic.

    • Posted By: hplehmann @ 12/10/2007 2:25:07 PM

      I guess you have not understood anything...and certainly you don??t know anything about torture or human dignity. Keep watching animated Disney films and close your eyes and your mind. You will be clueless unles it will happen to you or to the one you love.

      • Posted By: wordforward @ 12/10/2007 6:24:57 PM

        Do you think that when German POWs were swept up by American soldiers in WWII they were treated with great kindness and care? Would you expect that those men and women who endured the savagery of the holocaust would plead that their German Jailers be treated with loving oepn arms? If the torture of 10 enemy operatives saved hundreds of lives would it not be a fair and acceptable tradeoff? If your own mother sat naked in a cel in Fallujah and the man who knew her whereabouts was 3 feet from you and you knew all you had to do was make him bleed to free here would you then not act? Her an innocent and he a mortal enemy of everything you hold dear? Would you tell them to free this murderer and let your own mother be tortured and die?

        God said in Leviticus:
        Leviticus 24:19-20
        19 "If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

        • Posted By: johnukguy @ 12/11/2007 3:36:16 AM

          God said in Leviticus:
          "Leviticus 24:19-20
          19 "If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him."

          Great, so we know that the god of the old testament is a psycopathic child, So what? As Ghandi put it, considerably more intelligently and pertinently, "If we practice and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless." And please don't make the tired mistake of quoting idiotic parts of the bible in order to justify a morally, realistically and intellectually challenged stance, that just begs another biblical quote that completely contradicts the prior one,

          "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

          8 ?? Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

          9 ?? Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

          10 ?? Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

          Somehow, the bit about, "unless one is positing a completely spurious hypothetical case in order to justify the persecutors..." Perhaps the assembled crowds missed Jesus saying that. ;o)

          • Posted By: wordforward @ 12/13/2007 6:42:46 PM

            As is typical of someone like you, you respond to my query with no response at all. Were you as intelligent as you would have us believe you might have contradicted my reference to the Bible with a quite from Christ's teaching in the New Testament. Although had you attempted such a watery response I would have asnwered that with as much ease I answer this current meandering diatribe.

            Now to the scenario that I provided. Is not your own mother or a bus full of innocent children worth the life of an enemy? A terrorist who fights like a coward and hides behind innocent lives like they were so much sand underfoot. Is his pain or life not worth the innocent life of someone you love?

            Answer me this time instead of throwing out babbling rhetoric and smiley faces.

            I'll be waiting.

          • Posted By: wordforward @ 12/13/2007 6:33:29 PM

            As is typical of your type of individual you respond to me with no response at all. If you were as intelligent as you like to think yourself to be you possibly could have decried my reference to the Bible with Christ's teachings in the New testament. You kind of tried but didn't succeed. Perhaps you will try again after you read this, although I have every confidence it will result in failure much as the previous attempt.

            Having said that, let us try again to get you to wrap your mind around the scenarios I presented you with. Is your own sweet mother's life or a whole aircraft full of people like your mother not worth the extended pain, as horrible and excruciating as it may be, tife of one terrorist?

            Would you not sacrifice your enemy to save your family? Or your nation?

            Can you answer that question without a riddle or a smiley face?

            I wait eagerly to see if you can.

  • Posted By: madhuleo @ 12/13/2007 6:55:57 AM

    India too didnt lag behind in such State sponsored crimes during the Emergency period in 1975.

  • Posted By: mikeca @ 12/12/2007 9:02:01 PM

    This is what we should be fighting against..

  • Posted By: scope213 @ 12/11/2007 2:20:04 PM

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/11/agent.tapes/index.html

    end of discussion..read the article that just posted on cnn.com

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/12/2007 7:48:22 PM

      Thank you it was very interesting. I just wish (off-topic) that CNN would partner with google instead since Yahoo has handed over names of users to the Chinese government, which led to people being emprisoned for numerous years for their political views. I am boycotting Yahoo. Their main server is in China, unlike Google which runs from Hongkong.

  • Posted By: reporter21 @ 12/12/2007 7:47:49 PM

    A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words;
    www.poconocommunitynews.com

  • Posted By: scope213 @ 12/10/2007 2:43:01 PM

    Torture depending on which "side" you're on is really in my opinion a catch 22 situation. If we need to extract information that will save lives...is it justified? Do we just let potential enemies free hoping and crossing our fingers that they won't attack us? We can talk about the morality issues and being a good human being and so forth but bottom line is what do you expect our government to do to maintain security? After 9/11 they were blamed for not doing enough...but now being blamed because they're doing too much. This is our weakness and our enemies know this. On one hand do whatever it takes to protect ourselves but on the other hand make sure we dont' torture anyone and just ask them nicely. It all goes back down that path of "blame everything on the U.S." bandwagon. I wish one day we'll all hold hands and sing "we are the world" but we all know the reality is that every nation is in it for themselves and will try to trump each other when the opportunity is there.
    Torture is torture...but let's not compare water boarding to decapitation and removal of limbs....the reporter paints this picture of the big bad CIA...pls continue to feed the conspiracy inspired anti-government movement in our country.

    • Posted By: fiber artist @ 12/10/2007 3:59:49 PM

      If waterboarding isn't so bad, how come we prosecuted the Japanese after WWII for doing it to our guys?

      • Posted By: bellum_verborum @ 12/12/2007 4:09:45 PM

        because we could, we won!

      • Posted By: bellum_verborum @ 12/12/2007 4:08:16 PM

        because we could! we won!

      • Posted By: scope213 @ 12/11/2007 1:11:38 PM

        Yeah that's sort of double standard I guess...but let me tell you this, the Japanese in WWII were notorious for putting the capital "T" in Torture during it's campaign against China. Pretty much in the same league of what the Nazi's did to the Jews in the camps over in the European side. So you know what, I highly doubt the Japanese war criminals were just prosecuted for only water boarding. It's all in the history books...try searching google this, "Rape of Nanking", fyi.

  • Posted By: zoeyd @ 12/12/2007 1:58:22 PM

    Not in my name, and don't give me any *** about 9-11. What a pathetic lot we have turned out to be, the terriorists can claim the soul of an entire nation.

  • Posted By: Mwalimu @ 12/12/2007 12:56:25 AM

    Did John Barry see The Ghosts of Abu Ghraib? If not, he needs to,. The images in this film are both graphic and, I suppose to some, even pornographic. What???s most disturbing about the Ghosts of Abu Ghraib is that the tortures were committed by Americans, not Iranians or Communists, and that they were authorized by the White House, by a supposedly ???Christian??? president. The wrong people were put in jail for Abu Ghraib. We need to jail the people who ordered those atrocities. Incidentally, for each innocent person we tortured at Abu Ghraib we have generated 10 terrorits.

  • Posted By: zeppo50 @ 12/11/2007 9:22:59 PM

    Since the US actually executed Japanese prisoners for waterboarding, I think it's safe to say that the torturers broke the law. Whoever ordered the acts should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Studies have consistantly shown that there is very little chance of obtaining any useful information from torture. I'd bet the victim of such torture would admit to being on the grassy knoll in Texas if they waterboarded him enough. When we stoop to torture, we are no better than the terrorists.

  • Posted By: heyoka999 @ 12/11/2007 11:39:28 AM

    I was waterboarded as part of my military training....go back to sipping your latte in the comfort of your cafe...and please spare us the the BS analogy of abortion vs torture....anti abortionists are cowrds of their own conviction....please stick to the topic.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 7:09:15 PM

      Waterboarding is a sport, it's not a form of torture. These people are so disgusting. To drown someone to get information is a crime, even for north-American apemen. I am so sorry you had to go through it, and suffer from brainwashed fanatics on top of it. Seriously, where is your compassion?

    • Posted By: offshore250 @ 12/11/2007 12:35:55 PM

      Your water boarding isn't revelant. The topic is violence to other human beings. If you are ok with violence to the unborn, it is hypocritical to be bothered by torture to a few Islamic butchers. And if you don't think the 2 are related, I have some land in Florida you might like. "cowards of their own convictions" huh?

  • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 7:01:15 PM

    When will the responsible leaders be put into trial in Hague? And how long would their sentences be? Who are responsible? The media is too scared to discuss these issues. Bush is a bloodthirsty apeman, he needs criminal care at the highest facility.

  • Posted By: offshore250 @ 12/11/2007 11:07:10 AM

    For a country that allows abortion, what is the big deal about a few terrorists being roughed up? If you can rationalize killing the most defenseless among us, your moral compass is gone so torturing terrorists should be no problem. Just watch a couple of abortions and water boarding will seem like a walk in the park.

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 6:56:38 PM

      And I'm sure most surgeries make water boarding seem like a 'walk in the park'. Especially if you're squeemish. ;)

    • Posted By: Bornita @ 12/11/2007 6:54:38 PM

      Because the fetus doesn't have any nerves or consciousness, it doesn't feel. (I am just speculating about that though, you would have to ask experts). How do you feel about torturing suspects in your area? Is that a risk you think is reasonable? Narcotics kills more people than terrorism, I'm sure it would be juste. Is that a justice system you are willing to accept?

  • Posted By: mikecobb @ 12/10/2007 4:27:54 PM

    If you support the torture of prisoners then you must also accept the torture and execution of American Service men captured in this war and future wars. There is no ambiguity. That is what McCain and the Military leadership understand...the approval of torture is a death sentence for many future and current Prisoners of War. Most of what I am reading on the post, in support of our governments actions, is merely a lust for revenge with no practical argument to sustain such practices. These people that are in support of such actions should no longer express anger or dismay at the harsh treatment and means of execution that our servicemen who are captured in battle must endure; it is simply THEIR JOB!

    • Posted By: offshore250 @ 12/11/2007 6:32:49 PM

      The Islamic butchers were already killing our warriors along with indiscriminate slaughter of their own citizens long before our entry into Iraq or elsewhere and long before there was any water boarding. These are savage barbarians and the so called Geneva Convention or any other rules of the civilized world mean nothing to them. If a little torture will help us get rid of this scourge and save American lives, then so be it. If the rest of the world persists in this political correctness nonsense, they will have to deal with their own Islamic nightmare.

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