Airlines In The Brace Position

WOW, HOSTILITY!!! I'VE FLOWN AIRPLANES FOR OVER 30 YEARS, 24 FOR A MAJOR CARRIER, UNTIL I HAD HAD ENOUGH. NOW I COLLECT THE BIG BUCKS, AND DO NO WORK. IT'S GOOD IF YOU CAN SWING IT. NOW THAT THE AGE HAS INCREASED TO 65, THERE'S ANOTHER 5 YEARS THESE SLEEZY MANAGEMENT TYPES CAN CONTINUE TO PAY ME. LONG HOURS? CRAP PAY? BENEFITS THAT HAVE GONE BY THE WAY SIDE? ALONG WITH PENSIONS? I'M 3 TIMES DIVORCED, BUT HAVE FOUND THE RIGHT ONE AND THE RIGHT WAY....SITTING BACK AND ENJOYING HAWAII. LOOK AT CAL10PILOT ON EBAY. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, GO BACK TO FLIPPING BURGERS....YOUR BREAK TIME IS UP.

WOW, HOSTILITY!!! I'VE FLOWN AIRPLANES FOR OVER 30 YEARS, 24 FOR A MAJOR CARRIER, UNTIL I HAD HAD ENOUGH. NOW I COLLECT THE BIG BUCKS, AND DO NO WORK. IT'S GOOD IF YOU CAN SWING IT. NOW THAT THE AGE HAS INCREASED TO 65, THERE'S ANOTHER 5 YEARS THESE SLEEZY MANAGEMENT TYPES CAN CONTINUE TO PAY ME. LONG HOURS? CRAP PAY? BENEFITS THAT HAVE GONE BY THE WAY SIDE? ALONG WITH PENSIONS? I'M 3 TIMES DIVORCED, BUT HAVE FOUND THE RIGHT ONE AND THE RIGHT WAY....SITTING BACK AND ENJOYING HAWAII. LOOK AT CAL10PILOT ON EBAY. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, GO BACK TO FLIPPING BURGERS....YOUR BREAK TIME IS UP.

I would bet that you are a Pilot wannabe who could not hack it. Most of us "bus drivers" were landing on Aircraft carriers of getting shot at while you were nursing. I wish you could experience how "easy " it is to fly into a crappy little airport in the middle of a snow storm.

The Pilot shortage is all about crappy pay, short nights, long days, and no life. It's a very lonely life and the divorce rate is very high because you are never home. When the pay was decent, and the contracts were not pillaged by Bankruptcy lawyers it was doable. My advice. Find something else. Anything.

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First year FO pay isn't great, but beyond that ,and especially at upgrade, pilots are making well beyond, "minimum wage". The problem is, pilots have this of making $200K/year, and when they are a regional captain, making $70-$80K/year, or more, with seniority, which is considered a very good salary, in this country(USA), as it ranks int he top among income earner, somehow it isn't good enough, and they want more. Those are the people who go into careers for money, and will always be miserable.

I know people who were "smart enough" to become pilots, and went into other careers. Guess what? I am a regional captain, and I make more money than them, and my pay increases each year, where as, their's, is not. People need to stop thinking that the grass is always greener, and do what they love. The money will follow.

As for the shortage. It has more to do with the cost of flight training, vs. the initial first year pay of regional FOs. The pay gets much better after that first year, but it is hard for people to look beyonf that point, when many are having to finance their training, and have to pay loans. The banks want their money, regardless of what year, or seat you are in.

I also think there just aren't as many people wanting to become pilots; has nothing to do with pay, or anything else, just people not wanting to become pilots. Flying is mondane, and normal now days, not like it was years, and years ago. To some, it is the same as taking the bud.

The airlines are to blame for the shortage. If you pay a minimum wage for a highly quaified person and it costs over $200,000 to qualify, the people smart enough to become pilots were smart enough to look at another profession!!!

This is a dumb topic. And a very easy answer. Make the pilot profession something people want to do. Not work them to death and pay low salaries. Raise the salaries and benefits, and one will get applicants. Simple. Pay 300K a year and at least 75K to start out like an Engineer, and you'll get applicants. It's just that management doesn't want to. So stop complaining Airline management.

" seasoned veterans piloting large jets can now command $15,000 per month in some markets".What "markets" are these? Overseas? Many pilots (and other airline employees)in the USA have taken it in the shorts while airline execs get their bonuses and benefits returned to them, even after taking some of these carriers into bankruptcy. The reason that many pilots changes careers after 9-11 is that they saw the pensions go away- sometimes down to nothing, or a fraction through PBGC- and the up to 40% pay cut taken by some pilot groups (NWA) in return for more hours and reduced medical benefits.
I am not a pilot, I was an office worker for an airline until the post 9-11 layoffs. If you think that being a pilot is a glamorous, well paid (for the job done) career, think again. The schedules I saw them work (all flight crew members, not just pilots) were insane. 12,13,14+ hours working, followed by 9 or 10 hrs of rest- in some cases 8, just to get up and do it all again the next day. And the day after that,etc. Those hrs of rest include getting to and from the airport, checking in to the hotel, and getting in to bed, so how much real rest is there?
They aren't even given food on duty any more, so they may have a 60 minute break between flights, but in that time they have to get off the plane, and preflight the next plane plus try to run and find a quick bite. It's no wonder that pilots tend to drop dead shortly after retirement. They miss Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays, anniversaries, school plays, soccer games, basically the majority of their families lives. Their spouses are forced to pick up the slack. All of that for reduced pay, longer hours, more time away.
People need to wake up-until the pay and benefits rebound qualified pilots will continue to retire early, or walk away from the industry. Replacing them are pilots with 250 hrs (the minimum required) commuter pilots. The standard used to be 1000 hrs to get hired as a commmuter pilot. In some cases, pilots are being hired on directly as a captain, with barely over the 1000 hrs. what does this mean for the flying public? If you are on a commuter flight (feeder airline usually associated w/a commercial airline) your flight crew may have less than 2000 hrs total time between them, and little experience with the aircraft. Does this mean they aren't competent? Certainly not, but it does mean they have minimal experience, which coul be a crucial element if there is an emergency.
People- wake up! Airlines need to increase ticket prices, at least covering the cost of the flight, and stop taking the money out of the pockets of the employees. The experience level of your flight crew could be the difference between a safe landing and a tragedy. Pay the people for their experience, they are responsible for the safety of hundreds of lives on their workday. If you think your job is stressful, try that on for size. It is not a bus, you cannot pull over if something goes wrong.

Your item is not quire correct. At Philippine Airlines- pilots have to ( mandatory) go into retirement after being 20 years with the carrier. That is not L. Tan rule- it is one imposed by the Philippines- albeit Cebu is fighting same in court. On the other hand, these are pilots that at heights of their career- and presumably they fly largest aircraft-in light of pay- and transfer - get hired at Cathay Pacific.
Check undersearch window Pilot Central and look under foreigh airlines- you note the Cathay Payscale- and that they hire in the US.
The whole thing is about pay and if your license is transferable. Of course you still have to pass siumulator and a check ride. At Emirates- they hire pilots at a rate of 20 month- and they get mainly British pilots- as Emirates pays more than the Britts. As a result Easy Jet/ Ryanair- recruit - for the right seat - pilots with less than 1,000 hours. This a cycle thats goes around comes around just about every 10 years.
Have a look at the pilots still on furloufgh at American/ at Northwest etc they do not gpo overseas because - its still better to get a job at some outfit in Vegas- than overseas. Michael

Interesting how this article refers to exp'd talent being "poached" from their employer... Almost anybody with solid exp is contacted many time by recruiters today... Exp'd recruiters have client co's who are more than willing to pay above average pay (more than being paid in current job) for exp'd people...
In order for a client company not to have their human talent "poached" (recruited out) it is recommended they pay above average pay and work to "retain" them - many ways to do that. If not, they always risk being "poached" by talanted "recruters" ...

As writen by an experienced "recrutier"....

Part of the problem too is the HUGE initial expense to become a pilot. To get to those 250 hours required for a commercial license to even get hired on by the airlines a prospective pilot could have to pay $25,000+ out of pocket in instructor and airplane fees. This does not even count the normal costs of going to college which a smart pilot would do. It is very expensive nowadays to get involved in aviation.

I'm a private pilot who just flies for fun. I have my private license and my instrument rating and have about 160 hours. I've spent over $15k in training and would need a lot of time to get my commercial license. The costs of aviation are going out of control.

Funny using the word "poaching" when what co's are really doing is "recruiting" experienced talent for their clients - who will pay higher salary for these exp'd people.. if the same co's who are being "poached" paid above average pay to their pilots, the turnover rate would probably be much less - and they would see much "poaching" of their exp'd pilots... Good "recrutiers" always are looking for exp'd pilots, accountants, etc... for their clients - who will often pay above average pay for them...

Word from an exp'd "Recrutier"....

The pilots should be given a better deal and flexibility, then only many people will become pilots. The initial excitement of flying a plane on long distances and visiting places are short-lived by the boredom during flight, jet-lag, inconvenience of variable time zones, leaving the family back home most of the time(or not having a family at all!)limited choice of food available, retraining for new plane models and taking full responsibilty of the plane during these dangerous times. All these take the toll out of your lives within a short time frame. It is not fun at all - pilots are just first class taxi drivers living out of the suite case.