Immigrant Love

The spittle-flecked rage over foreigners in America misses the point. Here's the real issue presidential candidates should address.

By Christopher Dickey | Newsweek Web Exclusive

Dec 17, 2007 | Updated: 1:23 p.m. ET Dec 17, 2007

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Discuss

Posted By: burbank @ 03/02/2008 3:36:43 AM

Comment: If your question is: if gang cause crime, while the vast majority of immigrants help reduce crime, why don't our presidential candicates make gangs-and not immigrants-the issue? The reason Mr. Dickey is the rule of law. We as Americans have no problem with those who come to these shores looking for a better life. We only ask that they do so legaly. If they cannot obey the rule of law when trying to enter this country, what makes you think that they will obey the law once they enter? The answer is that they do not. When immigrants came to this country in the earlier part of the 20th century, they faced the same hardships that any new comer faced who came before them. However, they assimilated and because of the opportunity that this country gave to them and their families they were grateful; a sentiment that is still echoed by today's new comers. Illegals bring nothing to this country but a sense of entitlement. That they deserve what this country offers, but are not willing to obey the law to get it. They are parasites enamored with their own sense of self importance, who feel that they above that which society requires of us all...respect.
Posted By: Kdogg @ 01/11/2008 11:17:36 PM

Comment: Why is it that the only immigrants everyone is talking about are the hispanic immigrants from Mexico? No one seems to be very upset at the American Corporations that are providing immigrants with jobs. There's no complaints when they are digging your ditches or picking your fields. Cheap swaetsuite shops involving asians didnt register to many complaints, and lets not talk about all the asian mesage parlors sprawled across the country. No coplaints there. Nobody's in those places checking for green cards or demanding our government do so! It seems that we Americans are forgeting what Mexico and itt citizens have done for us. Go to Cancoon, Tiajana, or Madamores. I dont hear them complaining about us over there drinking and vacationing and buying cheap goods.
Posted By: wsm6 @ 01/03/2008 5:49:43 PM

Comment: For one thing, MArrying a citizen does not ensure legalization. I have an uncle that married a lovely woman from Australia, and they had a heck of a time! They even contacted the government ahead of time to find out what hoops they would have to jump through to enable this lady to stay in the country during the naturalization process. Because of faulty information, these newlyweds were not able to be with each other in the same country for over a year. After that, the road was still rocky, and by noo means an easy process. I also have a friend who moved to this country at the age of 3. His parents never became citizens, and at the time of his marriage, he was not a citizen either. He started the process in his teens ( when he was old enough to know what was going on) and married an American citizen in his early twenties. He is now married to a U.S citizen, and has two beautiful American children and is still struggling through the immigration process. He speaks English as well as you or I and can't remember any other country, and has struggled to do the right thing in the right way. Yet he has to work twice as hard to earn half the money to support his young family because he is not yet naturalized.

It is certainly not as easy as just marrying a U.S citizen. It is doing a disservice to make it appear to be so.
Posted By: InNM07 @ 01/02/2008 2:17:34 PM

Comment: Wow! another article trying to confuse Legal and illegal immigration. 47 million Latinos here, this is a very good reason to stop all immigration of Latinos. Not because they are bad people, which most are not, but because they have no reason to assimilate or learn English with that many of them here. The bu** Sh** claims tht we can not deport 20 million (pick a number) illegals is brought up by Latin groups that want us to give up and open the border. We can get rid ogf many by just requiring employers to prove they hired only legal residents. This is our country, not Mexico's and we can decide who to let in. We are being invaded while Mexico stops illegals from entering their country on it's southern border (hyprocrites). Concerned citizens of the US must fight governors, senators and Catholic and Latino groups to keep our country. If we loose they will open the border. Ask why don't they protest in their own country? Newsweek should stop letting Sampson and Zakaria spout their ill founded beliefs.
Posted By: pparamo1 @ 12/25/2007 1:25:48 PM

Comment: How' ' pimping to the american public' sound to you as an answer to your question. It was originally used by one of the founding fathers on another one at election time... for some, the need to hate is stronger than the need to love, I call them bigots.
Why don't those 'illegal immigrants' get their human rights recognized ?
White man comes to America, the whole continent, commits genocide on the natives, brings slaves first for cheap labor and then declare that same cheap labor as illegal. do you see any greed in there ?
Posted By: pparamo1 @ 12/25/2007 1:16:14 PM

Comment: How's 'pimping to the american public' sound to you as an answer ? the phrase was used originally by one of the founding fathers on another one..
Posted By: pparamo1 @ 12/25/2007 1:14:34 PM

Comment: How's 'pimping to the american public' sound as an answer ? I
the phrase was originally used by one of the 'founding fathers on another one, to the best of my knowledge, also on election time...
Posted By: pupzone @ 12/21/2007 6:48:17 PM

Comment: Remember, though, that we are from an immigrant decendance. Christopher Columbus never asked the NAtive Americans if he could come over. I still believe in legal immigration, dont get me wrong, but the need for money is what makes people make decisions. Secondly, this isn't all about Mexican Americans. There are other countries immigrating. So why is it all on Mexico?
- Posted By: DonWilliams999 @ 12/22/2007 10:17:03 AM
  
  Comment: Yes, we all are products of immigration. Times change. Would you think it would be a good idea if we had complete open borders, and anyone and everyone in the world who wanted to move to America could? How many tens of millions of people whould come here within just a couple of years, from all over the world? Would it matter if most were low-educated and willing to work for very little money? Would it matter if many came in with diseases that aren't very well tamed in other parts of the world (TB, etc)? We live in the 21st century, not the 19th century.
  
  It's not "all on Mexico." But right now, the majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico. So yes, the majority of the illegal immigration talk will concern Mexico. A while back I took a long taxi ride in Los Angeles, and had a long talk with the taxi driver. The driver was an immigrant from Nigeria. He came legally about 5 years ago. Spoke English quite well. Enjoyed America and wanted to stay here. And was working as part of the system. That is, he wasn't driving cab off the books for $5 an hour. So I don't think he had a negative impact on all the other cab drivers who feel they should be paid a fair wage. So, I don't have a problem with that (even though, heaven forbid, his skin was a different color than this xenophobe!). That's the issue with illegal Mexican immigrants. Many aren't interested in assimilating (I lived in SoCal for a few years, so I know of what I speak). Many will work for substandard pay, thus driving down wages and hurting Americans who would be glad to work at the jobs the illegals are doing - provided they'd get paid fairly. The "spittle-flecked rage over foreigners" (as described in the subtitle of Mr. Dickey's article)? Oh please. The majority of complaints I hear are based in logic and common sense. I haven't encountered a whole lot of "spittle-flecked rage," though of course there is some of that out there.
Posted By: manbearpig @ 12/21/2007 1:38:07 PM

Comment: ""Give me your tired, your poor, /Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, /The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. /Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, /I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
The French should be laughing their diddlies off now
- Posted By: burbank @ 03/02/2008 3:46:42 AM
  
  Comment: To manbearpig: "Give me your tired, your poor,/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,/the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,/I lift my lamp beside the golden door. Which shall be open only to those who OBEY THE RULE OF LAW!
Posted By: shary333 @ 12/19/2007 10:23:37 AM

Comment: so much immigrants bashing.
- Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/19/2007 11:16:51 AM
  
  Comment: No. More like criminal bashing...
- Posted By: DonWilliams999 @ 12/19/2007 11:10:32 AM
  
  Comment: It's not "immigrant bashing." It's criticizing a huge influx of mostly low-skilled labor, much of which has no interest in becoming American. People who feels that the arrival of millions of such people is good for this country, economically and socially, is free to post their defense of open borders here.
Posted By: DonWilliams999 @ 12/19/2007 9:11:06 AM

Comment: The main focus of the article is on immigrants and crime. For those who are disgusted with our open border policy, I don't think that crime is the number one issue (though it is an issue). Economic problems and a lack of assimilation seem to rank higher (and I agree with that). "The jobs Americans won't do"? Many Americans can't do those jobs because employers prefer to hire cheap labor. But it's necessary, right? "Lettuce will be $10 a head without illegal workers." Really? Lettuce costs about $1.50 a head where I live. Much of that cost is post-harvest (shipping to stores, store mark-up, etc.). So maybe 40 cents of a head of lettuce is attributed to picking cost. If you doubled the wages of harvesters, then lettuce would still be less than $2 a head. And many more Americans would be willing to take those jobs. Also, not all illegals are picking crops. I've read reports how the home building industry would "come to its knees" if all the illegals in that line of work were removed. So, is it that Americans don't want to work in the housing industry? Or is because employers choose to hire illegals who are willing to work for lower wages? Read about post-Katrina, where plenty of Americans couldn't get home rebuilding work because illegals were hired for less than $10/hour (Google it, it's all out there). Same with the meat industry. Wages have gone way down over the past twenty years. Guess why. As for assimilation, bringing that up labels one a racist or xenophobe. Why? Why is it bad for a country to have some commonality? There's nothing wrong with an appreciation for one's national background, but when someone clings desparately to it, and refuses to integrate into the new homeland, you know that person doesn't have much of a loyalty to the new country. As an aside, the argument that "it's impossible to round up and deport 12 million people" is a diversion. If there were real, enforced penalties for employers who hired illegals, eventually many illegals would leave (due to lack of employment), and far fewer would attempt to come here (as the job magnet would be gone).
- Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/19/2007 11:16:19 AM
  
  Comment: The replacement of workers is easy - abolish the welfare system for those who choose not to work and stick them in the fields. Also, prison labor works. as well. Yes the cost of some goods would go up (minimum wage plus benefits, taxes, etc.) but the burden on the welfare system would be decreased as would the need to make everything bilingual.
  
  The resistance is a huge issue and one the US should not tolerate. People want to link what is happening today with that of the 1900s. Well guess what - in the 1900s they assimulated! They went to night school to learn English and to become US citizens. We should not have to pay the burden of the illegal immagrants disrespect for America. Yes, America is a blending of cultures. But the outcome of this blending should be one single American culture, and not a mess of fractured 'countries' within our borders.
  - Posted By: DonWilliams999 @ 12/19/2007 5:08:21 PM
    
    Comment: Agreed. We need to quit with the "we're all products of immigrants" talk and look at the reality of the country as it stands today. Come here legally, be willing to be an American, and everything is fine. Hey, if I was willing to move to _your_ country, you can be darn sure I'd accept it as a fact that I'd have to learn your language and laws, and be willing to respect your hundreds of years of history. But don't worry about that. As imperfect as the US is, I'm sticking around right here...
Posted By: DodgerFan @ 12/18/2007 12:14:48 PM

Comment: I am one of those who argued that correlation does not equate causation. It would require a great deal of statistical data collection and analysis to demonstrate causation between illegal immigrants and either increased or decreased crime. The fact that there is an argument about it suggests that the causation effect is weak even if it actually exists. A similar situation exists for establishing causation between concealed carry gun laws and crime rates, or the death penalty and crime rates. I have lived in LA my entire life. I grew up in Pico-Union and later moved to Echo Park, thus having a few decades of first hand observations of street gangs and their effects on the community. The main observation I would like to pass along is that although the gangs are something to steer clear of, the vast majority of the people are simple working class folks who go about their daily lives with little or no thought of the gangs in their midst. Despite all the demagoguery and fearmongering, the gangs are not an unbearable threat to their lives and well-being. Looking at the larger picture, if the national unemployment and crime rates are an indication, it seems difficult to make an objective case that the illegals are creating an unbearable burden. Their use of public services, in excess of what they contribute in taxes, amounts to $10-20 billion per year nationwide. Although that is a lot (1-2 months of spending for the Iraq War), it is hardly unbearable. War supporters like to point out that the war is just a tiny fraction of the GDP. Well, government services for illegals is an even tinier fraction. And if they are given a path to legal status and allowed to pay taxes, their unpaid use of government services would shrink even further. So the use of this argument seems like a disingenuous attempt to mask hatred and intolerance.
- Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/18/2007 1:17:47 PM
  
  Comment: If they are given a path to legal status and pay taxes, they no longer become 'cheap' labor. Because of taxes and benefits, they will be paid more, increasing the cost of goods. Since consumers will not be able to absorb this increase, the farms and factories will close or go offshore (maye Mexico). Regardless, we have just increased our Welfare state by 12 million as these 'citizens' lose their jobs..
  
  And the argument is not about hatred or intollerance, but about obeying the law. You seem to think that someone can pick or choose what laws they follow. Remember that next time a crime is committed against you.
  - Posted By: DodgerFan @ 12/18/2007 4:23:09 PM
    
    Comment: You make some good points about legalization affecting the cost of goods. This shows that reasonable discussions can be had about the nuances of the issue. Having said that, I would like to point out that most of the discussions are not about the nuances, but framed in apocalyptic terms that evoke images of a sinister mass invasion and dire threat to the very survival of our nation. I grew up in a district of LA where an estimated 50% of the inhabitants are illegals from Latin America. You know what? It ain't that big of a deal. And just to the west along Olympic Blvd you got Koreatown. I grew just as accustomed to the Korean bilboards and signs as the Spanish ones. There are many occasions when I enjoy bulgogi for lunch and al pastor for dinner, or vice versa. Like, maybe I'm just one of those crazy laid-back Californians, but I found it easy to just go with the flow.
    
    What I'm trying to say is what's the big deal? If you could wave a magic wand and send all the illegals back home tomorrow, would your life be tremendously affected? If the illegals could wave a magic wand and attain instant citizenship, would it be the end of the world?
    
    I agree that they are breaking the law. But I do not see it as a particularly malevolent form of law breaking. I would like to see our nation display its generous humanitarian side and modify the laws to help those whose only desire is to seek opportunity and a better future. Ain't gonna happen, but I'd still like to see it. Also, I seem to remember something about the punishment fitting the crime being part of the American legal tradition. Amnesty means a general pardon. Most current comprehensive reform proposals involve some form of fines, etc for illegals who want to legalize their status.
    - Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/19/2007 8:51:50 AM
      
      Comment: Why should those who came here illegally, making the choice to break the law and continue to break the law by using illegal documents to obtain driver's licenses, social security cards, green cards, etc., participating in identity theft and driving withou insurance benefit ahead of those who staid in their own countries and continue to try time and time again to gain entrance legally? Sure we can try and paint a rosey picture of the illegal immagrants, but the reality is they are no different than the person who mugs you in order to buy Christmas presents for his family instead of getting a job. They break the law to get what they want with little regard to the rest of society.
      
      And go into any neighborhood and you will find ethnic restaurants owned and operated by nationalized citizens who came here legally. We don't need illegal immagration in order to experience different cultures.
      - Posted By: DodgerFan @ 12/19/2007 10:51:31 AM
        
        Comment: I live among large numbers of both legal and ilegal immigrants. When I walk into a restaurant to order some food, or go about my other daily business, their status makes no difference to me whatsoever. My main point is that the presence of large numbers of immigrants, illegal or legal, has no practical effect on my life. And I'm not talking about some suburban neighborhood with a few isolated ethnic restaurants so the majority population can enjoy an occasional novelty treat and get the illusion that they are experiencing different cultures. I'm talking about entire streets lined with Latin or Korean restaurants and businesses and also chock full of illegals. I look at them and I don't see muggers. I see people who are just looking for an opportunity to improve their lives. History repeats itself. In 1910 15% of the US population was foreign born and there was a backlash. As of 2003 the figure stood at 12%, and there is a backlash. Apparently there is a 10% limit to American hospitality, generosity, and good-will. Reasonable people can disagree on what punishment fits the crime of illegal entry. But it seems unreasonable to protray illegal immigration as a threat to the survival of our nation, or even as having a significant effect on the quality of life for the average citizen.
        
        Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/19/2007 11:08:52 AM
        
        Comment: In 1910 the majority were LEGAL immigrants. I support legal immigration, not those who choose to break the law.
        
        Posted By: DodgerFan @ 12/19/2007 3:18:20 PM
        
        Comment: Legal immigrants in 1910 or illegal immigrants in 2007, what difference does it make on the everyday lives of average American citizens? It is apparent that this isn???t about the survival of our nation or making drastic improvements in the lives of average Americans. It is about a draconian lust to impose harsh punishment on those whose only desire is to seek employment and opportunity. Fines and other penalties short of deportation or imprisonment will not satisfy this lust. What motivates the aptly described ???spittle-flecked rage??? so prevalent these days? Is it merely a desire to impose harsh justice on those whom we could just as easily help? Or can it be something else.....?
Posted By: William.Demuth @ 12/18/2007 10:20:15 AM

Comment: The issue is, and always has been one of culture. If immigrants assimilate they are perceived differently than those who do not. Latino immigrants have elected not to do so or are at a minimum taking their time, and as a result they have been met with a backlash. Liberal Americans have elected to promote a Multi-cultural path, enraging those of us on the ground who see the cost of such idealism. Multiculturalism doesn't work, and societies that permit the divisions to remain ultimately pay a horrific price.

America MUST be united by one language, one economic system and one system of government based on the principals of law, democracy and self sufficiency. If our new neighbors choose to walk a different path, we as Americans need to steer that path back to the fence the jumped over when they came in. American poor are being betrayed by American industry by having their jobs stolen and given to illegal's in the name of profit. Our public institutions are being exploited and our infrastructure overwhelmed by those who don't even claim allegiance. It is time we show them the door, WHILE WE STILL CAN!

All one need due is study France to see our future.
Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/18/2007 9:24:41 AM

Comment: The question should be, 'If immigrants reduce crime, why aren't immigrants reducing gang crimes in their neighborhoods?'
And for the record, the author has yet to show HOW immigrants reduce crime. Just by their mere existance? If these crime-decreasing illegals out number their gangster counterparts 40-to-1, why aren't they taking on the gangs themselves? Or why aren't the rich neighborhoods begging these illegals to move in next door in order to keep them safe?
And aren't gangs a mayor's and governor's job long before they are the responsibility of the President?
- Posted By: William.Demuth @ 12/18/2007 4:35:24 PM
  
  Comment: Immigrants reduce crime by victimizing other immigrants. The victims wont come forward out of fear of deportation, so the crime rate amazingly drops! Your posts seem rational and calm, so I will spare you any anger, but please try not to be so willing to be childishly optimistic.
Posted By: Kersius @ 12/18/2007 9:08:26 AM

Comment: First of all, I assume that we are making the assumption that in the image of crime, we are not including the obvious fact that so-called "undocumented immigrants" are breaking the law simply by being here. People need to take their statistics and put them together. Statistics supposedly show that crime is lower with first generation (especially illegal) immigrants. But statistics also supposedly show that immigrants (especially illegal) are also very unlikely to report crime. Also, it's very difficult to put a hand on illegal immigrants who hide and run from police rather then be questioned by them about crimes that were committed in the neighborhood. This leads to a further lack of faith in the system and fewer crimes are reported. I used to work in law enforcement and I saw it all the time. It's really hard to find out about crime if no one in the neighborhood will talk to police including the victims. Immigrants don't report crime because they're afraid that they'll be arrested and as a result, fewer crimes are reported. (Of course, they shouldn't worry, because in most places nowadays, you can't check their immigration status even if you arrest them.) Thus leading to an image of a lower crime rate. This leads to more gang activity, as people feel 'justice' must be done, and if they can't go to the police, then who do they go to? They go to the gangs. The gangs accomplish the task and again, no one reports anything to the police because they don't want to get arrested for being here illegally in the first place, and now for a second reason, they're more afraid of the gangs then they are of the police. And your contention that the crime in Texas is a result of gang violence spilling over into the US is ridiculous. The gangs wouldn't be coming after people in the US if we didn't have an open border. They don't have a beef with the US citizens, they have a beef with the rival gang members that fled across the border into the US to hide out. The simple fact is, do the crime, do the time, and every single undocumented immigrant in the United States today is a criminal and should be arrested and deported immediately. Anyone who says otherwise is soft on crime. Period.
Posted By: davidanderson @ 12/18/2007 5:10:26 AM

Comment: Yes, one of the causes of crime is gang activity. That is not the issue. Legal immigrants are not the issue. The issue is simple - enter the country legally so we know who you are and what your past is, Employers hire only legal immigrants and citizens. Government resources should aid and not complicate these two goals.
Posted By: gfabela13 @ 12/18/2007 1:11:33 AM

Comment: With the republicans taking an obvious stance of anti-immigration and deportation, I think they should really look at the important issues that are facing this country like, oh, IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN, even HEALTH CARE. But instead they are focusing on something so trivial and less important. Every country is built on the sweat and blood of immigrants, its what makes any country great and its what has made THIS country the greatest country in the world.
- Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/18/2007 9:26:57 AM
  
  Comment: A country that cannot protect its borders cannot protect its citizens. It is as simply as that. And yes, this country was built on the sweat and blood of immagrants - LEGAL immagrants.
  - Posted By: pupzone @ 12/21/2007 6:24:09 PM
    
    Comment: We also have to remember, though, that it all began with an immigrant going to the new land now known as the U.S. I believe in lega immigration, but the process takes too long. Either speed it up or accept the illegal way.
    - Posted By: sakpastica @ 12/30/2007 11:10:11 PM
      
      Comment: Pupzone, people are just talking because they want to, lets see how they can deport all undocumented, and if 'am still alive when this is done, then I'll know America will remain the world most powerful nation 'till the end of time. I came in here from my country 2yrs ago by air yet 'am undocumented, you know what i mean. trust me am just fine without black card or yellow card.
Posted By: who says we are free? @ 12/17/2007 2:03:24 PM

Comment: El Paso, Texas, has one of the lowest crime rates in the United States, and it is majority Hispanic.

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Posted By: burbank @ 03/02/2008 3:36:43 AM

Posted By: Kdogg @ 01/11/2008 11:17:36 PM

Posted By: wsm6 @ 01/03/2008 5:49:43 PM

Posted By: InNM07 @ 01/02/2008 2:17:34 PM

Posted By: pparamo1 @ 12/25/2007 1:25:48 PM

Posted By: pparamo1 @ 12/25/2007 1:16:14 PM

Posted By: pparamo1 @ 12/25/2007 1:14:34 PM

Posted By: pupzone @ 12/21/2007 6:48:17 PM

Posted By: DonWilliams999 @ 12/22/2007 10:17:03 AM

Posted By: manbearpig @ 12/21/2007 1:38:07 PM

Posted By: burbank @ 03/02/2008 3:46:42 AM

Posted By: shary333 @ 12/19/2007 10:23:37 AM

Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/19/2007 11:16:51 AM

Posted By: DonWilliams999 @ 12/19/2007 11:10:32 AM

Posted By: DonWilliams999 @ 12/19/2007 9:11:06 AM

Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/19/2007 11:16:19 AM

Posted By: DonWilliams999 @ 12/19/2007 5:08:21 PM

Posted By: DodgerFan @ 12/18/2007 12:14:48 PM

Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/18/2007 1:17:47 PM

Posted By: DodgerFan @ 12/18/2007 4:23:09 PM

Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/19/2007 8:51:50 AM

Posted By: DodgerFan @ 12/19/2007 10:51:31 AM

Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/19/2007 11:08:52 AM

Posted By: DodgerFan @ 12/19/2007 3:18:20 PM

Posted By: William.Demuth @ 12/18/2007 10:20:15 AM

Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/18/2007 9:24:41 AM

Posted By: William.Demuth @ 12/18/2007 4:35:24 PM

Posted By: Kersius @ 12/18/2007 9:08:26 AM

Posted By: davidanderson @ 12/18/2007 5:10:26 AM

Posted By: gfabela13 @ 12/18/2007 1:11:33 AM

Posted By: dewcooper @ 12/18/2007 9:26:57 AM

Posted By: pupzone @ 12/21/2007 6:24:09 PM

Posted By: sakpastica @ 12/30/2007 11:10:11 PM

Posted By: who says we are free? @ 12/17/2007 2:03:24 PM

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