What Will Israel Do?

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  • Posted By: Magic Marker @ 12/21/2007 12:34:39 AM

    What's the matter with you Betz55? Are you as concerned about the British and the French having a nuclear capability as you might be about North Korea? No double standards, eh? Have you counted the number of times Israel has gone to war to destroy an Arab nation, as opposed to the number of times the various Arab nations have gone to war to destroy Israel? Um, who still demands and insists on the annihilation of whom, eh?

    You didn't live through the Cold War, did you? Early on, it was based on the concept of "mutually assurred destruction". ("MAD") That prevented the political/ideological/psychological conflict from being fought on the battlefields. I'm sure you've have read about it though. We won because we played the game better than the other side; we eventually wore them down in several different ways.

    Your pseudo-knowledge appears to come from the rabid ravings of a small group of propagandists. I've read Mearsheimer and Walt's articles, too. Had I thought they were writing a parody, I would've laughed, but it's not nice to laugh at people who are obviously disabled.

    You're making an ass of yourself, betz55. Until you gain a little knowledge and a lot of insight, please go sit down over there and shut your pie-hole.

    • Posted By: betz55 @ 12/21/2007 11:47:47 AM

      Hi Magic Marker, Thanks for your reply. Still ignorant I see. Did you adjust that merkin like I suggested? Sounds too like you need some more fiber in your diet. You wouldn't be so defensive and insulting if you didn't feel threatened by what I/we were saying. Oh, and by the way Mearsheimer and Walt? Try reading their book, not just their article, make that GED work for you! Here's to more rabid ravings by us large group of propagandist !!!!!!!!! BOYCOTT ISRAEL !!!

  • Posted By: mkea @ 12/21/2007 10:22:23 AM

    I suspect that there was a secret agreement made with Iran and the U.S. agreeing to make announcemnets by the U.S. in a retreat from the Iranian nuclear crisis in order for Iran to stop supplying ieds to Iraq. If you notice there has been a sharp decline in the use of these weapons in Iraq all of a sudden. We look weak in my view of such a possible agreement because Iran killed hundreds of U.S. troops, again, and got away with it. A sharp 96 hour bombing capaign of terror training camps, nuclear sites and ied factories would have led to a shocking change of Iranian attitude towards the U.S.. Their fragile economy and the new fear of the U.S. military strikes for future problems would have led to a 180 degree turn in Iranian attitude and maybe even leadership in Iran. Israel should consider airstrikes, although they can do only lmited ones with their limited resources, on key Iranian nuke sites. This would even be difficult to do with out U.S. okay and as a result of that okay to use the air space of nations such as Iraq and Jordan. Now Israel is in a tight spot because of this military limit on using air space in an Israele strike. Unless they use missiles from Israel to strike at area targets in Iran over a continuous campaign then their military option is limited due also to the new U.S. stance. The launching of missiles from Israel itself will also escalate Iran's efforts to get similar missilies from North Korea to do the same to Israel. It might though lead to Iranian concessions if the Israeli attacks are severe enough. ALso it might lead to Iran's withdrawal of suppling of rockets to Hamas that are killing Israelis every week.

    • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 12/21/2007 11:05:09 AM

      what agreement? Iran is not manf IEDs! as the Iraquis are going twords Iran to there stash of OUR MISSING 4 TONS OF RX EXPLOSIVES WHICH CAN MAKE IEDS TILL MARTIANS LAND ON EARTH!! so find the missing explosive, and then tell me Iran needs to teach, what we taught, to build IEDs as they have enough explosives to finish the job. If we spend 2 BILLION a DAY, and they spend nothing to stay HOME, time is on there side, they have time, location, home field adv, and we spend CHINISES funds daily to stay -no win situation coupled with 4 TONS of missing RX [the most powerful explosive we got] which they have acess to, as we blame the Iranians, dang, Iraquis ain't so dumb and backwoods as we thought!!! Does not matter what WE think, if Israel attacks without provication,[ besides a biblical one] we will have our kids bleed, for the strongest country in the region, who sells China weapons to them against the arms bann, but arming OUR enemies is not taboo for the Jew!

  • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 12/21/2007 10:35:08 AM

    well we have learned nothing!!!
    as we just made every CEO rich, as merrill lynch sells America to China for a large flux of cash!! American going once? oh America allready gone! Sold to the Chineses! who bought our debt!

  • Posted By: William.Demuth @ 12/21/2007 10:02:52 AM

    Many historians enjoy showing parallels between the collapse of the worlds last singular superpower Rome, and the worlds only current superpower the United States.

    Some of these are silly and some absurd, but this circumstance is absolutely painful in it's similarities to the Third Punic War.

    When we will ever learn?

    Beware the men of power with an agenda who might inflame societies for their own aggrandizement. Some of us remember the call Carthago delenda est and the lives and treasure it cost.

    We do not need to create super enemies to still be a super power, but if it is our or the Israelis' desire to pursue a Casus Belli, we WILL find one.

  • Posted By: chandd @ 12/21/2007 10:00:01 AM

    I am not an international scholar on the issue of nuclear proliferation. But I do have an understanding of sphere of influence, financial dependence, and political strategies.
    When one looks at this issue it seems rather obvious that all these points have a place marker in the situation. Looking the other way makes sense when many hidden agendas
    are in motion. I will use you and you will use me and we both profit even if in the end we are light years apart in our individual philosophy. This makes sense when you look at the history of Russia and Iran not pleasant in any way as a matter of fact many atrocities occurred. Russia hopes to use Iran and vice versa they both get what they want at this moment in history and the minute one does need the other the relationship will be discarded.

  • Posted By: betz55 @ 12/20/2007 11:25:01 PM

    AIPAC sure won't like the NIE report that's for sure. It's about time the media starts pointing out and talking about the fact that Israel sits as the absurd and hypocritical gatekeeper to nuclear technology in the Middle East. That Israel has not signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation act and refuses inspections should be brought up everytime the word Iran is brought up. It should also be remembered that when the Israeli's were building their first reactor at Dimona they too were secretly building a nuclear bomb and lied to the US and US inspectors about it. Whatever the neocons insist Iran is doing, Israel has already done it and worse. Israel needs to be dealt with before Tehran.
    It is time for the U.S. to break the grip that the unholy alliance of Christian and Jewish Zionists have on our foreign policy. Israel is upset because we may not do their dirty work. Israel is the biggest and most dangerous destabilizing force in the Middle East. Israel is the rogue nuclear power. Israel is the state that is practicing apartheid. At present, Israel is not a source of stability but a serious catalyst of instability because of its belligerent policies. Israel has proven itself to be the most demonstratively warlike state in the Middle East. They have attacked Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, factions inside Lebanon and currently occupy territory in at least two other sovereign nations using "defense" as justification. Israel is surrounded by 24 Arab countries who to one extent or the other deny their very existence. Israel hasn't complied with a single UN resolution.
    Who would expect Israel to say otherwise ? After all of the Nuclear arsenal they've developed and posses, they are still in fear of a new Middle East War? Maybe they should get serious about negotiating for a change and quit playing games of one-upmanship. Otherwise they are playing their violin again, woe is Israel, that the United States won't comply once again, by falsifying American reports to play into their self created games of fear and scare tactics. When Israel grows up, we'll all know it, but that's a job for them to do, and not the United States of America to do for them. If $30 Billion US Dollars, wasn't enough for them, nothing ever will be, in fact America hasn't been doing them a favor with its support, and has made them actually do nothing for what they get. Too bad Washington, is owned by the Israeli Lobby it perverts any real justice being done on either their behave or America's.


    • Posted By: Braes @ 12/21/2007 9:56:35 AM

      I am with you on AIPAC, and the PNAC neo-cons. Israel is still building settlements and killing Palestinians. So much for Condi's roadmap.
      We have provided Israel several hundred KM of strategic depth at the cost of doubling our national debt.

  • Posted By: LG17a @ 12/21/2007 6:15:25 AM

    nuke iran w ~200,000 or so US troops N civilians in Iraq?

    "why would the NIE release a report like this at a time when America is working hard to pass a third resolution against Iran"
    new processes to keep it from influence of policy makers after Iraq embarresment

    "The actual NIE process makes clear how impossible it would be to cook the books in order to damage the administration. Sixteen separate intelligence agencies contribute to the report and must concur on key judgments. In the case of the Iran NIE, every detail of evidence for the report???s conclusions was looked at repeatedly and from all angles. In the classified version, there are more than 1,500 footnotes describing the sources used. When the draft came to tentative conclusions, the findings were attacked by analysts acting as a ???red team??? to determine if there were flaws in the analysis or whether Iranian disinformation was being used to mislead CIA analysts. This process was repeated over and over again until everyone was satisfied with the results. A final no-holds-barred review took place in the White House in mid-November, attended by Bush, Cheney, Robert Gates, Condoleezza Rice, and senior staff members, where objections to sourcing and conclusions were aired. No agenda-driven judgments could possibly survive the process."

    • Posted By: Braes @ 12/21/2007 9:52:31 AM

      Thank you. Nothing like the process exposed to shed a little light on it. I do not believe Iran is a threat to anyone but themselves. They can't even refine oil and make electrical power. I can not fathom the paranoia.

  • Posted By: chandd @ 12/21/2007 9:52:03 AM

    I am not an international scholar on the issue of nuclear proliferation. But I do have an understanding of sphere of influence, financial dependence, and political strategies.
    When one looks at this issue it seems rather obvious that all these points have a place marker in the situation. Looking the other way makes sense when many hidden agendas
    are in motion. I will use you and you will use me and we both profit even if in the end we are light years apart in our individual philosophy. This makes sense when you look at the history of Russia and Iran not pleasant in any way as a matter of fact many atrocities occurred. Russia hopes to use Iran and vice versa they both get what they want at this moment in history and the minute one does need the other the relationship will be discarded.

  • Posted By: chandd @ 12/21/2007 9:51:31 AM

    I am not an international scholar on the issue of nuclear proliferation. But I do have an understanding of sphere of influence, financial dependence, and political strategies.
    When one looks at this issue it seems rather obvious that all these points have a place marker in the situation. Looking the other way makes sense when many hidden agendas
    are in motion. I will use you and you will use me and we both profit even if in the end we are light years apart in our individual philosophy. This makes sense when you look at the history of Russia and Iran not pleasant in any way as a matter of fact many atrocities occurred. Russia hopes to use Iran and vice versa they both get what they want at this moment in history and the minute one does need the other the relationship will be discarded.

  • Posted By: howdy @ 12/21/2007 5:39:54 AM

    The logic of weapons of mass distruction is harsh. Isreal can't just launch a pinprick against Iran. Taking out the nuke sites will only cause a massive missile counterattack with chem/bio weapons causing the destruction of many an Isreali city. The only solution? Total nuclear anihilation of Iran. Just look at the old version of WWIII 80's style. The west thought that they could have a war and slowly lose in Germany. Then they'd lob a nuke. The ruskies respond with a nuke. Peace? No? OK a couple o nukes this time. Then the ruskies lob a couple back. Eventually peace would break out. The Ruskies had different plans. They would annihilate W. Germany from the start. Hundreds of nukes launched. They hoped the West would let the radioactive death stay in Germany, if not the next step was armaggedon.
    The idea of a surgical strike against Iran's nuke sites is ludicrous. If Isreal attacks it wll be with dozens of nukes nothing less. Were playing harball folks. Stop thinking it little leagus.
    Isreal v Iran

    • Posted By: William.Demuth @ 12/21/2007 9:09:14 AM

      Flawed logic is dangerous if it REQUIRES nuclear war.

      Israel can accomplish it mission through political destabilization and assassination. If Mossad and it's agents where to selectively eliminate four or five figures within the regime, the impetus for change would collapse the whole group. Just create the impression it was Arab versus Arab strife by laying the blame at the feet of the Saudi's and Syrians.

      The key will be in separating Syria and Iran, probably by using Lebanese proxies. Pair that with returning Jewish occupied Syrian land in return for Syrian controlled elements inspiring Iranian trained extremists to turn on their keepers.

      A few truck bombs, and the whole paradigm could be shifted.

  • Posted By: harleybill203 @ 12/20/2007 8:28:14 PM

    I hope Isreal takes the necessary steps even if they have to nuke them till they glow. The Islamic Republic of Iran wants to destroy not only Isreal but all in the world who are not followers of Islam. Just another racist and radical nation that needs to be nuked.

    • Posted By: A Watchmaker @ 12/21/2007 8:51:57 AM

      Utter rubbish, more propaganda for the paranoid new world. If they want rid of all other religions in the world, why are 2% of the Iranian population non-Muslim? Including Hindus, Sikhs,Yezidis, Yarsanis, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians. With latter three minority religions being officially recognised and protected, and have reserved seats in parliment? This is the same kind of insane propoganda that alowed Hitler to cement his cause. If Irans stated goals are religious dominance, why would Budhist China and a mixed religion Rusia want to have anything to do with them?

    • Posted By: candidneshat @ 12/20/2007 9:08:50 PM

      Iranian people donot like their government and we are trying to figure out a way to get rid of Mullas. But if you 're talking about nuking people and a genecide, then I assure you that Israel will actually be wiped off the map as crazy Iranian president says. Without US support, Israel is nothing. You can study history more to see how Persians defended the country throughout a history of a couple of thosands years. Why war? Iranians and Israelis could be the best friends in the mideast where both are surrounded by Arabs. back to a couple of decades ago, the Shah of Iran had the best relations with Israel.

      • Posted By: mongoman @ 12/21/2007 2:41:36 AM

        I absolutely agree with this last comment. The Israelis and Iranians have always gotten along very well. The same goes with the Lebanese. These countries want to raise their standard of living. They like the western world. Turkey, also. There is no need for hate and war and killing in the M.E. But, who's going to stop it?

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/21/2007 6:22:04 AM

    Iran does not have the capability of striking Israel with a nuclear attack. There all talk and not weapons just like Hussein. Does a country have the legal right under international law to strike a nation if they have not been attacked? In fact, attacking Iran does not solve the problem of Russia's vunerable nuclear arIsernal. IF you really want to solve a problem you have to go to deal with the source of the problem which is Russian and it's breakaway Republics. They do not seem to mind sharing their technologies with the highest bidders. Terrorist will take a page out of the Chinese playbook; why re-invent the wheel when we can just steal it and put our sticker on it. We continue to invent that certain countries in The Middle East have the military capbilities to compete with Israel. We are completely taking our eyes of the real threat; the source of nuclear proliferation; China and Russia.

  • Posted By: howdy @ 12/21/2007 5:59:39 AM

    Stoping Iran from getting nukes is like stopping Iran from getting helicopters. There both 50 year old technologies. Seriously its like stopping a kid from learning how to ride a bike. Its too easy. I heard them Iraninans have laser beams! How can they not be building a death star??

  • Posted By: mongoman @ 12/21/2007 5:18:59 AM

    Humans do war. Humans have been at war since they climbed down out of the trees. So it isn't a case of "will there be another war?", it's a case of "when will the next war start?". You can blame Israel, or Bush, or Iran, or North Korea, or the little men from Mars, but it doesn't matter. War is in our genes. We will have war.

  • Posted By: zeejer1982 @ 12/21/2007 4:34:23 AM

    why would the NIE release a report like this at a time when America is working hard to pass a third resolution against Iran, May be they want Iran to moderate it's position by hearing this report, who knows, but one thing regarding Iran is clear here and that is the fact that any attack against Iran would have consequences that will not be containable, if Isreal were to attack Iran, the US would also pay for it and that will bring the US into a direct fight against Iran, not to mention it will make it harder for Arab states to support America against Iran in case of a war, add all this to the fact that Iran has Hez, Hammas and all the those folks, plus it can hit back with it's ballistic missiles, target Israeli interests around the world and has the will to fight for it's dignity as it's history in the case of the Iran-Iraq war has shown it will.

  • Posted By: nader100 @ 12/20/2007 7:26:28 PM

    Clearly the republican US administration is split between neo-cons (Cheney clan) and the pragmatists (Gates Clan). For now the pragmatists have pulled the rug from under any ideas the neo-cons might have harbored about a military confrontation with Iran in 2008. Judging from their unfortunate peformance against Hezbollah in the summer of 2006, taking on Iran alone seems to be way above Israel's pay grade.

    • Posted By: SteveMD2 @ 12/21/2007 3:03:50 AM

      lets just remember that Bin Laen made a fool of Bush, whose Iraq invasion has validated to the Muslim world that we, the USA, are the enemy. And Bush, in his ignorance, lies, and stupidity, fell for Bin Laden's trap, and gave Bin Laden tens of thousands of new followers with his invasion of a muslim country. Bush is the 'religious president' and if you look around the world, including the middle east, Africa, etc, you will see that almost all of the worlds horror spots are based on religious hatred, or tribalism, which is just a variant of religion. Religion is absolutitist. It prevents people from compromising and finding common ground. It is the worlds greatest danger, and we have a bible thumper in the oval office. Maybe Darwin was right, and one version of natural selection is when people do uterly stupid things, like elect a maniac like bush, that civilization dies. Too bad for all the good people, for as Bin Laden showed us how much damage a few maniacs can do, Bush is doing just the same.

  • Posted By: RFFNY1 @ 12/21/2007 3:01:46 AM

    I have a question for Yuval Steintz, who said "Something like this should have been presented to the Israelis through professional channels" ... Did I read years ago, that one of Isreal's agents saw the vehicle with the explosives that killed Americans and was told, let it happen so the Americans can be mad at .......???
    That's just one of the many hypocrital actions I have been informed of. RFFNY1

  • Posted By: SteveMD2 @ 12/21/2007 2:50:13 AM

    Given the catastrophe that Bush has given us with his war based on lies and ignorance in Iraq, I would not be surprised if this is all a setup. Israel attacks Iran. Iran has 20 times the population of Israel, so Bush now has the excuse to get us involved in Iran. Has this maniac learned nothing. Of course not. Underlying his religious beliefs is the concept of the Apocalypse, where billiions could die, civilization collapses, but the Christians believe that Jesus will return and save them, never mind the billion others who will be left to rot. Bush most like ly stole both elections, his family is fascist from before WWII when his grandfather's bank helped pay for the nazi war machine. Wit people like him running the USA, our greatest danger isn't Bin Laden,. It is the man and his gang sitting in the white house, who would chance destroying civilization to avoid admitting how terribly wrong he has been. And thanks to him and his Iraq Catastrophe, Bin Laden still lives.

  • Posted By: rpivarnick @ 12/20/2007 9:25:30 PM

    I don't have any propblem with Iran, I'm for opening up both embassies, full diplomatic ties, and yes, help them with their nuclear program, which Our President Ford christian for them. We don't have to love the Iranians, just like we didn't have to love the russians during the clod war.
    I think the real issue here is Israel feels threatened by Iran becoming an Ally with the United States once again, 5.5 million people,vs 72 million people sitting on the third largest oil reserves in the world.
    AGAIN, the nut job current president of iran did not say he wanted to wipe israel off the map it's called propaganda,
    Israel has a lot of nuclear weapons, how is non nuclear Iran a threat. to a nuclear country with what 200+ nuclear weapons. Hirsch, in all due respect it's only the jews like yourself using america as a platform and the right wing Israeli party. Go find a cure for cancer.
    whining about it. Please tell me America isn't this f##king
    dumb to believe this b##sh#t.

    • Posted By: mongoman @ 12/21/2007 2:47:31 AM

      O.K. America isn't this f##king dumb to believe this b##sh#t. Do you feel better now? Are you perhaps suggesting America should believe the Islamic terrorists? The ones that do all the bombings, murders, tortures, and so forth. Yes, I believe you are saying that. My question to you is, why do you blame the country that wants peace, and not blame the countries that support terrorism?

  • Posted By: SteveMD2 @ 12/21/2007 2:43:58 AM

    We can't know what is in the 'mind' of Bush, but we sure know how he lied to the world and to himself about Iraq, and with his invasion validated to much of the Muslim world that we are the enemy. In effect, he has been Bin Ladens unwitting ally. I would not be surprised if Bush is doing all this, hoping that Israel will attack Iran, then be confronted with a nation attacking them that has 20x their population, giving Bush an excuse to start another war. And for Bush being strong, like Isaiah Eagle Cloud said, so was Hitler and stalin.

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