CAPITAL SOURCES

‘More Than We’ve Ever Done’

A new law lays out an ambitious plan to reduce American greenhouse gas emissions. Can it work?

By Jessica Ramirez | Newsweek Web Exclusive

Dec 24, 2007 | Updated: 12:45 p.m. ET Dec 24, 2007

« Return to Article

Discuss

Posted By: five10man @ 04/19/2008 11:34:01 PM

Comment: It is a shame that "reporting" is done like this, where Ms. Ramirez says that "X is true, therefore what do you think, Senator?" rather than telling us, for instance, about how much it would cost to convert the non-flex-fuel vehicles to run on E85 (less than $300 if the dealer makes a packet on each one.) With this sort of writing, we are left to assume that Ms. Ramirez is an expert in the subject of flex-fuel vehicles, and is competent to quiz the senator and to inform us.
Posted By: Mwalimu @ 12/30/2007 12:32:03 AM

Comment: For research, everyone should read Growing Fuel in the October, 2007 edition of National Geographic. Yes global warming is real. Currently the carbon dioxide is at 380 parts per million, we are increasing that ratio by about 2 parts per million each year. 450 parts per million is the Doomsday threshold - And remember this does not include nitrous oxide, or methane, which is currently being released in record portions from melting permafrost in Siberia. Do the math. Unless we do something drastic, the planet has only about 30 to 35 years to live.

According to National Geographic, ethanol from corn is the least effective and least efficient means of an alternative fuel. Switch grass has more promise and does not complete with food crops, or the current ecological destruction that agricultural corporations are wreaking on the planet. Even more promising is algae, which can been grown by capturing the carbon emissions from coal-burning power plants. This is already being done in Dunkirk, New York by GreenFuel technology. (Check out the MNBC website.) The new energy bill is only a start, but we still need to do a lot more. For those who keep claiming that global warming is some sort of leftist plot to destroy America, I???ve one question to ask. What state of denial are you in? It took the Catholic Church hundreds of years to finally accept Copernicus??? theory as scientific fact,.albeit Copernicus himself was a Catholic monk. This time around we don???t have a hundred years.
Posted By: jbritt @ 12/28/2007 12:29:08 PM

Comment: prtzllogic and supra661 have both raised some excellent points. Maybe global warming is real, maybe it isn't. It is still heavily debated in scientific, political and social circles despite the pronouncements of absolute proof one way or another. By the way prtzllogic, thank you for mentioning water vapor as a greenhouse gas. Everybody freaks out about carbon emissions, but you never see it mentioned that the specific enthalpy of carbon dioxide (CO2) at 20C is approximately 200 J/g whereas the specific enthalpy of saturated water vapor (H20) at 20C is approximately 2500 J/g, 12.5 times the energy content of CO2. I don't pretend that I can create a complex climate model with cloud cover and water vapor feedback effects, but I have been through the calculations of a very simple, conservative thermodynamic model of the earth and the effect of the predicted increases in carbon emissions is still miniscule next to water vapor (1 to 3 degrees C increase in temperature). I'm not minimizing that sort of climate change, but it is time to see honest scientific analysis and explanation rather than alarmists with agendas shouting about Earth turning into Water World by 2010. While I remain unconvinced either way on Global Warming, I do agree with the general direction that the US energy policies are heading. Maybe Global Warming is or isn't real, but I have a gut feeling that humans spewing millions of tons of carbon (and other things) into the atmosphere that would not have gotten there naturally is probably not a good thing and should be avoided. There are other issues that should be motivating us towards a change in our energy policies like pollution and energy independence. Pollution is a real problem that needs to be addressed. Energy independence is a real problem that needs to be addressed. It???s time to focus on the real problems. It???s just fortunate that at least for now global warming appears to be a catalyst for change to move us in the right direction.

Sidebar: Senator Bingaman seems to have bought the plug in hybrid hype and like most Americans seems blissfully unaware of the fact that the electricity flowing into your home is made more times than not from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, etc). Plug in hybrids do little if anything to address carbon emissions without a change in how we generate power. If Congress had passed the Energy Bill with the requirement that utilities generate 15% of their power via renewable means (hydroelectric, wind, solar, etc) (I would have included nuclear on that list as well) then plug in hybrids might make more sense, but for now not so much.
Posted By: supra661 @ 12/27/2007 1:06:50 PM

Comment: Regardless of prtzllogic's commentary on this topic, we still do have a number of crises to deal with in this world we live in today. We really do have to worry about eventually reaching peak oil production capabilities. We really do have to worry about too much deforestation. We really should be worried about climate change causing arctic ice sheets to melt -regardless of the root cause! -Heck, if nothing else, I'm worried sick about air pollution! I drive every week day through the Tampa Bay area over a 50 mile (1-way) commute, and almost every single morning I am greeted with a thick yellowy smog as I drive on the elevated expressway (crosstown/Leroy Sellman Expwy.).... It is DISGUSTING!.... Of course I'm worried about pollution. Our society doesn't even like to breathe or deal with the nasty stuff ite self, so why the heck should we think anyone or anything else should be happy dealing with the messes we make?

Get over the conspiracy theories! Get over the shock/awe tactics of the media today! Take a step way back and look at what you see!! -Our world is a mess, and it would sure be nice to see it cleaned up. This would be relatively easy if we would all just take responsibility for our mistakes and effect some change. As it stands, it's attitudes of persons like "prtzllogic" that allow horrible things to proliferate in a sea of stagnation. I'm tired of hearing the bickering back and forth. Let's all just get up, deal with the reality that we've been crapping in our own collective nest, and work together to FIX THE PROBLEMS that WE HAVE CREATED.
- Posted By: prtzllogic @ 12/27/2007 3:11:06 PM
  
  Comment: I actually agree that pollution is an issue. Despite whatever opinion you may have formed, I am not advocating the systematic destruction of our planet. I am advocating that we deal with the REAL issues, not the politician/media-generated Chimeras. Every resource that we throw at a Pretend Issue (like man-made Global Warming) is one less resource we have for real issues (like air pollution, or illiteracy, or the fact that Americans no longer know how to think for themselves). What I'm advocating is simple: Just KNOW your facts. Know what the real problems are BEFORE you try to fix them. Otherwise, there's a good chance you will make things worse. Almost every intercession man has made into an ecosystem to try to "fix" things has instead upset the delicate balance and made things worse. It's made things worse because of attitudes like, "We just need to do something!" These systems are far more complex than our current scientific understanding. For crying out loud, science can't accurately predict the weather over the coming weekend! Yet people willing swallow computer models that claim to predict the next 50 years. We know part of the equation, and we think we can work from that. It is an arrogant and dangerous attitude. btw, if you actually know anything about climate change, you would understand that the ice sheets are supposed to melt because we're still coming out of the last ice age. The planet goes through cooling cycles and it goes through warming cycles; these cycles have nothing to do with us. They are NATURAL cycles. We should worry about this? Why? You realize that eventually the sun is going to burn out, right? That's actually a much bigger issue, because it will end the life of the entire solar system. Maybe we should worry about that! I'm hoping Congress can come up with a law banning the sun burning out. THAT should fix everything. To reiterate: My point is not that you should bury your head in the sand. My point is that you should STOP burying your head in the sand. Stop being so lazy, and go do some real research from some good independent sources.
Posted By: supra661 @ 12/27/2007 1:06:27 PM

Comment: Regardless of prtzllogic's commentary on this topic, we still do have a number of crises to deal with in this world we live in today. We really do have to worry about eventually reaching peak oil production capabilities. We really do have to worry about too much deforestation. We really should be worried about climate change causing arctic ice sheets to melt -regardless of the root cause! -Heck, if nothing else, I'm worried sick about air pollution! I drive every week day through the Tampa Bay area over a 50 mile (1-way) commute, and almost every single morning I am greeted with a thick yellowy smog as I drive on the elevated expressway (crosstown/Leroy Sellman Expwy.).... It is DISGUSTING!.... Of course I'm worried about pollution. Our society doesn't even like to breathe or deal with the nasty stuff ite self, so why the heck should we think anyone or anything else should be happy dealing with the messes we make?

Get over the conspiracy theories! Get over the shock/awe tactics of the media today! Take a step way back and look at what you see!! -Our world is a mess, and it would sure be nice to see it cleaned up. This would be relatively easy if we would all just take responsibility for our mistakes and effect some change. As it stands, it's attitudes of persons like "prtzllogic" that allow horrible things to proliferate in a sea of stagnation. I'm tired of hearing the bickering back and forth. Let's all just get up, deal with the reality that we've been crapping in our own collective nest, and work together to FIX THE PROBLEMS that WE HAVE CREATED.
Posted By: tiggilee @ 12/27/2007 11:12:17 AM

Comment: Wow prtzllogic, I had no idea there were still uninformed, conpiracy-theorist, buried in global-warming denial yahoos still out there. How sad that I have to share a planet with you. Please try to take care of it - the rest of us would really appreciate it.
- Posted By: prtzllogic @ 12/27/2007 12:22:21 PM
  
  Comment: Sorry I don't share your religion. "How sad that you have to share the planet with me." How sad that you think you're "informed." You're aware, no doubt, of the numerous scientific errors and omissions in Al Gore's Video Sermon? Oh, you're not. Look it up for yourself. Guess what they pushed in the 70's? Global COOLING was seen to be the next big threat. Guess what they pushed in the 80's? AIDS, and the Ozone Hole. Well, AIDS is a real threat, but it still didn't end civilization. As for the Ozone Hole, well, gosh, it turns out he Ozone Hole wasn't caused by aerosols, etc. -- read the current science. The current scientific opinion is that the Ozone Hole was caused by the Arctic being TOO COLD. That's why you never hear about it in the major media anymore. But who cares, right? Now we've got Global Warming to pitch! Half the things they blame on Global Warming are debunked by science a year or two after the media covers them... but they don't cover the retraction. Why not? Fear sells. Read "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton if you want one explanation for what's happening. But if you are already one of the Global Warming Religious Zealots, it's probably too late to un-convert you anyway. You're saving the planet! What would the rest of us do without you? Good luck with your faith, I'm sure you'll save us all. My post is not for the lost causes, it's for the people who still retain some slight ability to think for themselves.
  - Posted By: Froggie76 @ 01/03/2008 2:06:18 AM
    
    Comment: You definitely need to check your "facts" about ozone level depletions. Have some humility and intellectual honesty to check here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion
    
    Global Warming and Ice Age are misnomer for the real events. Climate Change is not.
    Depending on the regions and the seasons, areas will suffer increase alterations in climatic events (ie increased drought or rainfall occurences). Coupled with the endangerment of coastal areas (up to 100km inland from sea) due to sea levels rise and atmospheric pressures (wind currents), which directly affects over 60% of the world population, you have serious food for thoughts (action would be even better).
    
    And please stop this nonsense about the sun. The sun is expected to run out of combustible (hydrogen) in over 5 billion years. 5 000 000 000 years !!!!!!! This current climate change cycle is starting to gather irreversible strength for the next 50 to 200 years. Enough to affect your children or grandchildren for their ENTIRE lives !!
    
    Best regards,
Posted By: judoro @ 12/27/2007 9:32:23 AM

Comment: If the goal is to have more ethanol in the US and the fanger is that we will drive up the price of American corn or use land that could go to other, non cash crop purposes then the solution should be obvious; free trade. We have let dictatorships and exporters of terrorism have access to our market for oil but we do not give that same access to a friendly democracy in S. America wanting to sell us corn. We need to open up our market to Brazil.
Posted By: prtzllogic @ 12/26/2007 11:59:05 PM

Comment: What's amazing is that Congress is passing laws that impact our entire economy based on the biggest global scam in history. Chew on this, Congress: according to ice core data, the earth right now is at its COLDEST point in the last 8000 years. Pop quiz: what greenhouse gas accounts for 95-98% of all global warming? Answer: WATER VAPOR. You know where water vapor comes from? Evaporation. Maybe Congress can pass a law banning the ocean. What's even more disgusting is that the news media and the public eat this stuff up. Welcome to slavery, folks. They're locking the shackles and the global public is willingly handing them the keys and saying, "Give us more!" Try doing some TRUE independent research if you want to know what's really happening. That means get outside the major media and the government-grant driven scientists. Sorry to attack what is a religion for some of you (i.e.- Environmentalism -- we're no longer saving the sinners, we're saving the planet! Aren't WE important!). There is still hope, there are ways out of the cult, but they require logic, research, and independent thought. Best of luck. You can start here (and there's plenty more to find): http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
Posted By: phiomalibumalibu @ 12/26/2007 10:43:50 PM

Comment: It's not only alternative fuels that we need we need to build homes that don't use fuel, and convert existing homes to rely on the sun's energy. Take a look at http://www.ecohouseinfo.com for great information.
Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 12/26/2007 9:41:40 PM

Comment: It is too late, the glaciers are melting!
Posted By: CorbinB2 @ 12/26/2007 8:09:28 PM

Comment: I guess the thing that really bugs me is that the government initiatives for alternative fuels are being presented with 'alternatives to importing oil' being the reason for doing this. Sure they mention emissions once in a while, but that certainly is not what they are putting out front and center when trying to sell this on the hill or elsewhere. Why can't we take the lead on this stuff for a change and do something because it is the right thing to do. If you really want to improve the economy, quit charging or allowing to be charged, outrageous prices for gasoline and let people have more of their money to spend on things they need like groceries and credit card payments and mortgages and while I'm no economist, I'm guessing the economy would improve rather quickly, there would be no more credit crunch and people could qualify for and pay for normal mortgages instead of these ridiculous ARM's that created the housing crisis in the first place AND we might just do something good for the environment in the meantime.

Why aren't more people running for office talking about these things? Our government is being bought and sold for corporate interests and it's time that we as the voting public spoke up about it and said ENOUGH already.
Posted By: Arborlung @ 12/26/2007 6:35:04 PM

Comment: From the perspective of a past farmer I think there is something to be said for hemp. The oilseed production is significant and the waste fiber substancial as well for ethanol. The cultural practices won't prove difficult to develop. The politics is the only thing getting in its way, as part of a rational set of solutions in my opinion.
Posted By: Arborlung @ 12/26/2007 6:32:09 PM

Comment: From the perspective of a past farmer I think there is something to be said for hemp. The oilseed production is significant and the waste fiber substancial as well for ethanol. The cultural practices won't prove difficult to develop as well in my opinion. The politics is the only thing getting in its way as part of a rational set of solutions!
Posted By: Alejandro1962 @ 12/26/2007 11:05:46 AM

Comment: Can America open its eyes? For years, Brasil has used alcohol (from sugar-it's a climate thing) because of a petroleum shortage, and reluctance to import. Now, 90 % of the cars are "flex fuel," they can run on any combination from pure gasoline to pure alcohol. THE BEST PART: who developed the computer / electromechanical technology -Chevrolet, Ford, Volkswagen. The joke is on us, and our wallets. Iraq who?
Posted By: Tired of the Silliness @ 12/26/2007 10:57:16 AM

Comment: "We had several experts talk to us about the implications of going to these levels and nobody suggested that something like that would occur."

What a surprise! The employees of ADM and the ethanol refiners think that this is a wonderful idea. Corn based ethanol is another name for a government subsidy. The only reason that ethanol works in South America is that it is made from waste products from the sugar industry. We are planning to make it from the primary product - food. WIth the heavy use of fuel for cultivation and fertilizer and the damage to the land and water this looks like a loser to me. I can measure the difference in gas mileage on my car when I get a load of ethanol laced gasoline (roughly 7-10% less mpg in a Hyundai Elantra).

If we want energy independence we need to go to a combination non-carbon based fuels such as wind and nuclear with a good dose of carbon fuels such as coal.

It is obvous from America's energy policy that many people in government and the green movement did not pay attention in science class.

Dave
Posted By: Doug_M @ 12/26/2007 10:35:08 AM

Comment: Why corn based? Saw grass or even sugar cane produce greater energy by volume than corn and the crops can be turned around twice in one season whereas with corn you get one harvest per season. This corn based initiative is another example of, the whitehouse representing, the oil industry backing the worst methodology so they can remain viable. Being that specific by naming corn as the product of choice is as idiotic as saying "clean coal technology" is good avenue for power generation.
Posted By: dennis405 @ 12/26/2007 6:23:18 AM

Comment: Bring back the Electric cars General Motors distroyed we now have the way to tax the use of them, besides we now have much better battieries, taxing milage is now beeing tested mostely to find out how the public wil try to cheat the system than to see if it works
Posted By: phiomalibumalibu @ 12/24/2007 5:57:15 PM

Comment: For information on the latest in GREEN AUTOS go to trafficorganic.com