Was it human error? The design of the new exhibit?
Comment: I want to bring your attention to a recent paper: Tiger tales: A critical Examination of the Tiger's Enclosure at the San Francisco Zoo (http://arxiv.org/abs/0801.4407)
Comment: the zoo is all blame for the wall. tigers like tatianna have a right to be wild as any wild animal the should have raech potentail hieght but failed therefore there to blame
Comment: i think no matter what you cant tame a tiger if you do then the tiger could turnon you at any time.
the zoo is to blame as the wall didnt reach the potenial hieght
the kid is to also blame as he was taunting the tiger
Comment: I saw the father of the boy who was killed on the news. He said that it is wrong for a tiger to kill even if it is being taunted. Are you kidding me???!!! Attitudes like that are what leads parents to raise stupid kids doing stupid disrespectful things and getting themselves killed in the process. How about you teach your child that tauning anyone, whether animal or human, is wrong?! Then, you don't have to worry that they will grow up to be the type of person who goes up to a wild animal in captivity and taunts it. It a TIGER people! We shouldn't even have animals in captivity unless they can't survive on their own in the wild. They were here first! Respect them. I feel worse for the tiger being killed b/c of its natural instinct God gave it than for the boy who basically committed suicide.
Comment: I think the PETA people need to be caged.
Comment: i think your exactly right about that
Comment: Many speculate what should have or should not have been done. How a wild animal should or should not react. Who can really say what goes on in a 'caged' animal's mind when they rely and react on instinct. We as the human race have almost pushed away our instinct. We try to reason too much, use logic, or try to push human idealogies onto animals. No matter how you look at it, the human race is at fault. We do try to preserve, others try to profit, and yet others don't care. Many can speak and argue all they want, but actually do they make an impact? Do their actions show the same as they speak, or are they just speaking to be heard. Speaking and actions of a noble cause are worth more than a thousand 'name-calling' comments. We as a society no longer want to take responsibility for our actions, rather sue someone for our lack of responsibility. No, we can blame an innocent animal who has reacted naturally and was killed. Or we can investigate all possible angles and causes and take responsibility for our actions instead of passing the buck and trying to blame everyone else for our mistake.
Humans are to blame for not completely estimating the wild animals reactions to every known situation? Look at our prisons, we can't even predict our own behaviour. Before we blame animals 'wild behaviour', perhaps we should look into our own! Any caged creature can become even more unpredictable.
I feel sorry for the loss of life, on both the animal and the human side, but instead of pointing fingers to individuals, perhaps look at the whole picture.
Comment: Larry1936
I don't aggree with you all the way,the guys involved in this by jumping in the enclosure were asking for it. come on. sorry I can't aggree with it ,if he fell in by accident fine and the resucres tried to help him thats another story . From what I understand the kid got braver than his life coud cash the check for and lost.. to bad for both sides though . just heard all cats there at the SF Zoo are unnderquarantine from the public exhibits until the Investigation is over came from radio news Interveiw with zooologist there. If I was a judge ruling on the lawsuits I'd consider throwing them out but after hearing hard evidence rather than circumstantial.
Comment: this seems to be a warning,let the animals stay in they wild there not ment to be caged up. I believe in preservation and conservation but a zoo is hardly that. there not pets, look at the man in vegas a couple yrs ago, out of the blue his white tiger attacked him during a on stage perfomance.
Comment: maybe this is a warning .let these anmials be wild not caged, yes preservation is needed but zoos,are not my Idea of preservation
Comment: There you go..you never cared to read my post but was in hurry to POST ur comment. Thats why i said and say again you have no banana clue of what is being discussed here.
PS i never invited you to post your comment for my post so i dont feel any necessity to look at what you posted before as it has no relevence of what is being talked here. Period
Comment: Clearly, you didn't read what I wrote. And--if you don't want your postings challenged, then don't post on a message board. That is the whole point.
Comment: Rajji: You seem to be the one lacking a "banana clue" (whatever that might be). If you read MY previous post, I think you'll find that I asked absultely NO questions, out-of-context or otherwise.
Comment: Antgone as far as i know you dont have a banana clue of what we are talking here. You might as well try a diff site or discussion board.
And in case you are unable to...pls go throug my previous posts you'll find answers to your totally-out-of-context questions
Comment: Rajji: You act as though the tiger did something wrong, but she is the only one who absolutely did not. The zoo did, by failing to maintain a proper enclosure. The boys may have, by taunting a caged animal that could not get out (they thought). Society did by continuing to support the practice of caging and displaying wild animals for the benefit of humans. The tiger had no choice at all in the matter. She was caged and kept against her will. Once she got out, she did what any tiger would do. If you are so upset by this tragedy, then you may want to join PETA's campaign to encourage the zoo to close its tiger exhibit and move the animals to a sanctuary. That is the only way to completely ensure that this sort of thing does not happen again.
Comment: Thanks to some ppl who still carry some common sense on their shoulders.
For others i feel sad and total disappointed because however i tried my best i couldnt open their ears or minds.
On the lighter side Ron Paul For Pope cracked me up for his comments.
It was funny and made fun of the ppl who are unable to think outside the *bun*.
And hey better yet
how about that lady at the ticket counter providing a fully loaded rifle with the Zoo ticket.
If you see any dangerous animal roaming around freely, take a shot. Also you can take it to your home and show to your friends that you HUNTED the animal in a ZOO. wow
And if you have any more funny ideas post it...
Comment: The only way we can safeguard big cat exhibits is to post even bigger dogs to guard them. With genetic engineering, I don't see why we can't design 20-ft tall German Shepherds to patrol the outside of the exhibits.
Comment: Rajji: You did not receive one because you are using logic toward illogical people. Most of these posters are members of PETA and see no difference between humans and animals. In fact they probably prefer animals over humans! I am sure that you have seen many of them are more concerned over the death of a tiger than a human, and that should be evidence you are not dealing with people with a full deck. You have posted well, and believe me you are in a majority when compared with the general population, just not on this PETA board! This is also a word to the wise for anyone else reading comments here. Do not waste your time.
Comment: Newsweekmod: You obviously have no logical argument to offer, so you resort to attacking other posters and, of course, attacking PETA. Interesting because PETA had no involvment in what happened at the zoo. As I have observed previously, the most articulate and intelligent arguments on here support the tiger. So--if those are all by PETA members, we may not have the majority of society, but at least we have the most intelligent segment of it.
Comment: Thanks for the responses.
But i am still wondering why some *reasonable* ppl finding hard to realize Zoo is a safe place to visit with your friends and family. ANIMALS DONT GET OUT TO GREET YOU however whatever the case may be. Thats the whole idea of making a Zoo.
I heard the news of a SF woman telling that in the same enclosure 10 years back a different tiger *without provoking* managed to almost reach up to the surface with its front paw hanging just 4-5 feet away from that women's child, when the tiger crossed the moat. How would you explain that.
So how would i rationalize my talk to guy(who is taunting)
1.hey buddy, this is not a *fool proof system* so it might get out and tear the ass out of us.(totally illogical answer, i hate to admit. We are talking about a Zoo not an open Jungle, incase you missed the point)
2.you know, how would you feel if you are being taunted everyday , wouldn???t you feel to come out and settle the score.
Hold on did you mean to say it can COME OUT,COME OUT YOU REALLY MEAN BY THAT. how can you possibly say that.
I am sorry about but i cannot help laughing by this *logical* answer
So i got no success of any reasonable answer to the questions i posed in my previous post so i'll be wrapping it up.
When you see a 350-pd Siberian tiger sitting next to somebody mauling your first instinct/job would be to save that person however you can how best you can neutralize the situation.
We are not talking about putting a collar around its neck or medical examination
This is a real life threatening situation where the tiger has already killed one person.
So you may want to rethink on what you said.
Comment: "But for zookeepers it is not particularly surprising: tigers have naturally aggressive and predatory instincts. So when a flaw in design or human error allows one to escape???two factors likely at play in San Francisco???a death is not altogether shocking. It's the rare but very real consequence of allowing humans to come in close contact with predatory animals. "
So please tell me why these animals are being kept in zoos where people taunt them, then try to sue the zoo when they get injured. I'm not saying that the people who got injured did anything, but think of it this way: if you were in a cage all the time watching people scream, run, eat, and whatever else people do in zoos, would you not want to get out? And once the tiger got out, obviously it's going to attack people, its their natural instinct. All of these problems would be solved if the animals were left in their original habitats, away from annoying humans. Also, if you're going to have a zoo you should have precautions incase something did happen. The tiger did not need to be killed for acting on instinct. Although I understand that whoever shot it was acting whatever way he/she thought was best.
Comment: "Inevitably, there are going to be lawsuits filed," Little said. "Even if they provoked the tiger, a reasonable person would believe that the tiger could not escape. That's what you count on when you go to the zoo. You count on the idea that the animals cannot reach you."
What a crock of crap. No one should ever believe that an intelligent animal cannot find a way around anything. There is no such thing as a 'foolproof' system,' and even if there were, a ???reasonable person??? should know that the ???reasonable??? consequence of provoking a tiger or any other animal is that they will be harmed, perhaps even killed. Anytime you encounter animals or nature, you should expect that while the risk has been minimized, it can *NEVER* be eliminated, and one should always show due caution and respect.
Of course, no one thinks that way. All this hubub regarding a tiger...while the animal that has killed more humans than any other...is the mosquito. And if you limit it to just big furry ones, deer kill more people in the US than tigers, lions, sharks, snakes, and all the other scary critters out there.
Comment: Thank you for this post -- SOME SENSE
Comment: Thank you for this post -- SOME SENSE.
Comment: Why is it so much hard for some ppl to understand that taunting does not count for an animal to come out of its enclosure though it might try mighty hard to jump off from the enclosure.
Let me give you a scenario
Now we all know tigers are fed properly, what it he sees a guy eating big hamburger near its enclosure and it feels little hungry and lets just imagine that it manages to jumps out.
Would you blame the guy eating hamburger or would you blame tiger by violating its natural instincts for the meat.
neither.
so who would be responsible for this situation...you guys are intelligent enough to answer this question.
Ok now when you, i or anybody goes to Zoo how often did we ever came across any sign post reading "Taunting is Prohibited".
Lets just hypothetically say Yes.
What does it mean then?
Does this mean that if you taunt the animal it would get angry and will make a face at you, hurt your feelings by sticking its tongue out or making weird funny noises to irritate you.
No of course not.
Or does it mean that taunting can REALLY HURT the psyche of the animal and it will go into deep depression and somebody has to give him anti-depressant pills to elevate out of it.
No
Or did we ever came across any sign reading "Make no noise and it wont attack you"
Never.
So what exactly would "Taunting is Prohibited" sign post mean. Think about it radically and let me know.
I am an animal lover but i cannot control anyone from not being passionate about it.
Some ppl go to zoo and probably get some kick taunting big cats. Now if i stop someone from doing that what would i say to rationalize my talk.
i would say "the hell would you stop doing that. you are putting ever ones life in danger over here"
Now if he asks me how...you guys tell what should be the best logical answer.
Dont tell me its not ethical and yaada yaada yaada.
And if you still think the old way "taunting is what happened blah blah blah" my advice to you would be refrain yourself from going to the Zoo because that will make it a dangerous place in the world next to Iraq.
Comment: "Taunting is Prohibited" means that you should respect a creature that can kill you, and not antagonize it to the point where it wants to do that. If I commit an action, and it leads to my death, then it's my fault, not the fault of whatever caused my death. Likewise, if I taunt another human to the point where he takes his own life, I'm responsible for that as well.
Comment: Heck, my cat can jump 6 feet straight up, so I'm pretty sure a tiger 20x his size could easily jump 12 feet. That's why it's supposed to be a MOAT, not a ditch. Tatiana could not jump 33 feet across and 12 feet up, nor could she jump 12 feet up while swimming. If the moat was full of water, Tatiana would have been just swimming around under the spot the boys were most likely standing instead of crouching and leaping. I can just imagine the surprise those poor boys felt when a 300lb. tiger suddenly appeared in front of them after leaping up from the bottom of the moat where they most likely could not see her until it was too late. I would not put the blame entirely on the zoo if taunting was involved, though. Just because you think a zoo enclosure is going to keep the animal away from you does not excuse or give you the right to malicious behavior like taunting, just as the schoolyard bully does not have the right to act maliciously because they are the biggest or strongest out there. Opportunity to behave badly does not justify bad behavior. Of course, as in the case of Roy Horn, it could have just been an unusual but innocent action that prompted the attack. Hopefully, the brothers will be willing and able to set the record straight on the events leading up to the tragedy, both human and animal. And finally, those who are commenting about the shoddy journalism job should refer again to the articles. The journalists were quoting the fence heights as given by the zoo officials, not making them up as they went. Don't blame the press for reporting information given to them by the source. It's not like they were in the enclosure with a yardstick and couldn't figure out how to use it.
Comment: Actually, the word "moat" means ditch. Most moats, despite popular culture, were not filled with water.
Comment: dry moat. moat don't = water
Comment: If some fool teases my Ger. Shepherds, provokes them, then CHOOSES to enter our enclosed/ fenced yr or dangle a body part over the fence... hmm, their choice. Same here. The men went into the enclosure after baiting a tiger. No accounting stupidity. Shame for them; shame for the tiger, the zoo, all of us. But only the 3 men chose to knowingly engage in illegal, stupid, and dangerous behavior-- which makes it their fault.
Comment: Some posters reveal that they have never truly loved a child. Tigers are endangered in the wild, but breed easily in captivity. There are over 10, 000 in the U.S, not in zoos. Sad that either died, but not the same.
It is amazing that this very enclosure had $240,000. spent on it this past year, but no one required the height to meet standards. ..?
Taunting
Comment: I am really surprised and sad about lack of proper understanding of what occured in SF Zoo.
I had a dog last year, german shepard which was killed by my neighbour,While i was away gone for grocery shopping. My dog attacked his teenage son taking out part of skin from his forearm that left a deep gash there. He said he had to, otherwise he could have caused more serious injury. My neighbour was kind enough not to sue me. I felt sad about the whole situation.I knew my dog and he was very well behaved never would grab you voilently unless you really piss him off and i wondered whether there was any foul play at the hands of that teen age boy.
It was my mistake that the side porch door to main entrance was left little loose and charlie(my dog) came out.
Now if i compare that situation with SF Zoo, i would have made sure and taken the responsibility that charlie never comes out of his enclosure even if poked or taunted.
So the only responsible person over here in SF Zoo incident is the Zoo autherities, not the tiger and not the guy(s) who may have taunted.
Taunting has absolutely nothing to do with tiger coming out of his enclosure and there is no news of guys HELPING the tiger to come out.Goddamn it, its so freaking crazy to even think like that unless those guys were there to commit suicide. Tigers are generally shy from humans but when kept in capitivity they see them on daily basis and by saying that let me add one more thing You can NEVER be 100% sure the cats will behave exactly the way you want them to when in capitivity.
Lets take an example from recent past of famous personality Roy Horn
On the evening of his birthday, Roy Horn (nearly)faced death in the form of his loyal white tiger reacting in an unprecedented manner.Roy was attempting to get the tiger???s attention by yanking on the leash. The tiger bit down softly on his arm, and Roy reacted by tapping him three times on the nose. At the same time, Roy lost his balance and fell, causing the tiger to grab him by the neck and pull him behind the curtain.
And i can cite numerous expample where Big Cat owners did had an incident time or by leaving few exception as of Ligers i suppose.
So lets sympthise with the victims and thank God we were not there near the tiger enclosure at that time.
Becuase it is very easy to post your comment but very difficult to implement on your *animal protection* principles when you are facing a tiger ready to charge at you.
Comment: Taunting a tiger is tantamount to putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger. Just because you thought you were playing around and didn't think the gun was loaded doesn't mean you weren't trying to commit suicide. They many not have thought they were there to commit suicide, but it doesn't change the fact that is exactly what they were doing when they decided to antagonize the cat. And yes, check the media carefully, there is plenty of evidence that shows that is exactly what they were doing.
Comment: The only thing that seems certain right now is that 2 lives have been cut short. Now everyone is playing the blame game. Who is to blame? Is it the zoo who seemed unaware that the walls were too short in the tiger enclosure, or is the inspectors who 3 years ago failed to note that the walls fell several feet short of regulations? IF, and I repeat IF, the boys were taunting Tatiana then there is blame there also and the 2 survivors will have to live with that fact for the rest of their lives. One thing is definate, Tatiana was not to blame, she did what tigers do, they hunt. IF she was being taunted, it was like dangeling meat in front of Tatiana. When the boys ran she did what tigers do, they pursue their prey. No matter who ends up at fault, it won't change the fact that 2 lives were cut short and no amount of blame can change that.
Comment: This is a tragedy, thats the only thing that seems certain for now. Is the zoo to blame for walls that were definately too short, or how about the investigators who examined the enclosure 3 years ago and never reported any problems that needed to be dealt with. Then there is a large moat that had no water and never has. IF, and I repeat IF, the boys were taunting Tatiana, then there is blame there also. If the boys were partially responsible, then the 2 survivors will have to live with that fact for the rest of their lives, as well they should. One thing that is certain is that Tatiana is NOT to blame, she did exactly what tigers do, they hunt. If Tatiana was taunted it was like dangeling meat in front of her, when the boys ran, she did what was expected, she pursued. Two lives have been cut short and we have to ask ourselves, who is truely responsible? Seems there's more than enough blame to go around.
Comment: I'm really not that surprised to hear of an animal attack at the SF Zoo. Over 25 years ago my toddler son hopped over a low wall near the Baboon cage and ran right up to them before I could manage to grab him. This was with my husband and older son standing there too. Luckily the animal's screeching turned him right around before the nearest one was able to grab his arm! It was an extremely close call that gives me nightmares even now. I think that the zoo should look at all it's animal displays with the idea of protecting the visitors from themselves. Kids get away from their parents all the time. If our society wants to cage wild animals so the public can view them, then both sides of the cage need to be safe. Children are curious and the animals are exciting. I think it's time we phase out the dangerous caged cats and the poor Polar Bears and Elephants that are going nuts from the boredom and captivity...
Comment: The comments I see here are truly amazing. I'm an animal lover, and there are many times when humans should not be given the benefit of the doubt when conflicts between animals happen. This is NOT one of those times.
There is no concrete evidence these boys did anything wrong. As always, the media has been irresponsible. Journalistic integrity is a thing of the distant past. First the wall's 20 feet tall, then 12. First the boys taunted the tiger, then there's nothing that indicated that. Nothing is substantiated before being reported anymore.
The boys are victims and, yes, so is the tiger. As the scene played out, the tiger had to die. The zoo has NO EXCUSE for creating an environment where a huge and volatile carnivore can gain access to someone waving their arms, legs, taking a photograph, wearing red, or anything else any zoo visitor might do. The tiger cannot speak, so let's wait to pass judgment until we hear what the human survivors have to say.
Comment: "The zoo has NO EXCUSE for creating an environment where a huge and volatile carnivore can gain access to someone waving their arms, legs, taking a photograph, wearing red, or anything else..." Um, tell ya what. Why don't you go visit Alaska, maybe in the spring would be good. See this world for what it really is. The environment, this planet, is exactly where a carnivore can gain access to someone...that's what carnivores were made to do. Welcome to the real world, not the imaginary one where most people try to live. We can try to modify it, make things safer, but we can never make it to a place where there is no risk in the environment. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool and deserves to reap what they sow.
Comment: Your comments only prove my point. Yes, there are plenty of dangerous places on the planet but most of them do not involve an admission fee. The wild animals that live there were not placed there by humans for the entertainment of other humans. Yes, anyone is a fool to taunt a wild animal under any circumstances. So what? Despite your comments to the contrary, I've still seen no credible report that that happened. If you have, please cite them.
Comment: I think we need to wait for the results of the investigation. If the boys did anything wrong, I highly doubt that they will admit to it.
Comment: Fine, but this is just one more example of judgment without information.
Comment: Actually, it isn't without information. People on here are responding to information as it becomes available. The final determination of what happened hasn't been made yet, but people are discussing this issue as it unfolds.
Comment: The comments I see hear are truly amazing. I'm an animal lover, and there are many times when humans should NOT be given the benefit of the doubt when conflicts between animals happen. This is NOT one of those times.
There is no concrete evidence these boys did anything wrong. As always, the media has been irresponsible. Journalistic integrity is a thing of the distant past. First the wall's 20 feet tall, then 12. First the boys taunted the tiger, then there's nothing that indicated that. Nothing is substantiated before being reported anymore.
The boys are victims and, yes, so is the tiger. As the scene played out, the tiger had to die. The zoo has NO EXCUSE for creating an environment where a huge and volatile carnivore can gain access to someone waving their arms, legs, taking a photograph, wearing red, or anything else any zoo visitor might do. The tiger cannot speak, so let's wait to pass judgment until we hear what the human survivors have to say.
Comment: think the fault lies on both human error, and may be (I said) may be the young men who might taunted the tiger. The zoo officials kept saying that some official came to check the safety of the habitat 3 years ago. Well 3 years ago, Tatiana was only a cub of 1 year old. She was now older and stronger and could leap much farther. When I look at the picture of the habitat, with the "moat" of 30 feet separating visitor and the tiger, and the wall just above 12feet, I myself would be reluctant to stand there, knowing that the siberian tiger could leap farther and higher ! Poor Tatiana, she was a beautiful and rare tiger ! We ,human suppose to watch over her and protect her from extinction, not to kill her because of our stupidity and carelessness !
Comment: The wall has been there for 70 years, seen millions of people pass by without any problems. Also, it was not "required" to be higher, just recommended--big, big difference. This wall has kept many, many people safe from many tigers, not just this one. I'm not seeing the zoo as the problem here.
Comment: Amen
Comment: I think the fault lies on both human error, and may be (I said) may be the young men who might taunted the tiger. The zoo officials kept saying that some official came to check the safety of the habitat 3 years ago. Well 3 years ago, Tatiana was only a cub of 1 year old. She was now older and stronger and could leap much farther. When I look at the picture of the habitat, with the "moat" of 30 feet separating visitor and the tiger, and the wall just above 12feet, I myself would be reluctant to stand there, knowing that the siberian tiger could leap farther and higher ! Poor Tatiana, she was a beautiful and rare tiger ! We ,human suppose to watch over her and protect her from extinction, not to kill her because of our stupidity and carelessness !
Comment: A very sad day that this animal has lost it's life due to (once again) human stupidity. I read that they are not sure how the animal got out and are looking into it? Is there no security at this zoo whatsoever? Just back up the video tape, there should be cameras all over this type of public tourist spot, especially when they have had an incident with this animal in the recent past. With all the vast access we have to information these days to learn about animals, we don't need zoo's any longer. Unbelivable to think of putting a wild beast in an open area and then parading people by it so they can get the sense of smell and see them day after day. Cats can make amazing leaps and take time to figure out excactly how to traverse obstacles, where this animal was housed was not a good idea. I hope the families are paid an enormous amount of money that won't even begin to start the healing.
Comment: The only human stupidity was that of the "victim". I hope the family doesn't get one cent. In fact, they should pay the zoo for the loss of a rare, endangered animal. There are less than 400 Siberian tigers left in the world, and now, we all have lost yet another young, healthy female of breeding age because their cruel and direspectful son chose to tease and torment a wild animal. It's his own fault.
Comment: The zoo director should think about the comments he makes. How could he say that he was amazed that the tiger could leap over a wall 12.5 feet high when the industry standard is 16 feet? I saw a film of a tiger leaping to attack a mahout riding on the neck of an Indian elephant...and that animal is about 12 feet high...the tiger easily made the jump. Easily.
Comment: Siberian tiger? Bengal tiger? tigress? not all the same..
Comment: when you go to the zoo you take your kids they are going to pick with the animals to get there attention might call out to them snap fingers at the animals ot something that doesnt mean they should get attacked if the animals are attacking fot teasing they need to close all zoos down because anything can be classified as tauting. So if its not safe at the zoo because who knows what a child would do only playing trying to get the lazy animals that just lay around attention ther doesnt need to be one because we dont want our children dying at and excibit they go for excitment not to be mauled to death i would do everything to shut that zoo down sue the safety inspectors and the zoo they will pay..even though it wpouldnt take back the tragedy......
Comment: That's where parents come in; to teach children that it is unkind to tease or taunt animals. Zoos are a great learning experience and the idea of closing them all down because some children don't know how to behave and some parents can't be bothered to educate their children, is just plain silly.
Comment: I agree that all zoos should be closed down. PETA is sending letters to ask this zoo to close the tiger exhibit and relocate the remaining tigers to a sanctuary, if you would like to help with that effort.
Comment: If zoos were all shut down, all of the endangered animals of the world would become extinct even faster than they already are. Even thought a zoo is not ideal, it is much safer than leaving the last remain tigers in the wild for poachers and hunters to brutally murder. I'd rather see tigers bred in a zoo than completely extinct.
Comment: I am really surprised and sad about lack of proper understanding of what occured in SF Zoo.
I had a dog last year, german shepard which was killed by my neighbour,While i was away gone for grocery shopping. My dog attacked his teenage son taking out part of skin from his forearm that left a deep gash there. He said he had to, otherwise he could have caused more serious injury. My neighbour was kind enough not to sue me. I felt sad about the whole situation.I knew my dog and he was very well behaved never would grab you voilently unless you really piss him off and i wondered whether there was any foul play at the hands of that teen age boy.
It was my mistake that the side porch door to main entrance was left little loose and charlie(my dog) came out.
Now if i compare that situation with SF Zoo, i would have made sure and taken the responsibility that charlie never comes out of his enclosure even if poked or taunted.
So the only responsible person over here in SF Zoo incident is the Zoo autherities, not the tiger and not the guy(s) who may have taunted.
Taunting has absolutely nothing to do with tiger coming out of his enclosure and there is no news of guys HELPING the tiger to come out.Goddamn it, its so freaking crazy to even think like that unless those guys were there to commit suicide. Tigers are generally shy from humans but when kept in capitivity they see them on daily basis and by saying that let me add one more thing You can NEVER be 100% sure the cats will behave exactly the way you want them to when in capitivity.
Lets take an example from recent past of famous personality Roy Horn
On the evening of his birthday, Roy Horn (nearly)faced death in the form of his loyal white tiger reacting in an unprecedented manner.Roy was attempting to get the tiger???s attention by yanking on the leash. The tiger bit down softly on his arm, and Roy reacted by tapping him three times on the nose. At the same time, Roy lost his balance and fell, causing the tiger to grab him by the neck and pull him behind the curtain.
And i can cite numerous expample where Big Cat owners did had an incident time or by leaving few exception as of Ligers i suppose.
So lets sympthise with the victims and thank God we were not there near the tiger enclosure at that time.
Becuase it is very easy to post your comment but very difficult to implement on your *animal protection* principles when you are facing a tiger ready to charge at you.
Comment: All zoos are not good zoos, however. I think we should stop having zoos and start having more sanctuaries likes PAWS. It is ridiculous to breed animals in captivity to replace the same species that we are killing in the wild. Animals are not here for our entertainment and one animal is not replaceable by another. They are all individuals, all deserving of a chance to live on this planet, which does not belong to humans. That is what we need to realize.
Comment: To kill the tiger for behaving naturally is wrong. We removed this beautiful creature from it's enviornment and for our pleasure. There was an alternative....tranquilize and then rehabilitate and release in the wild would have been the just and humane thing to do. Shame on the zoo and the police for shamelessly killing this beautiful creature. Zoos can be a wonderful thing but the SF zoo should be shut down and the anilmals placed elsewhere.
Comment: I agree 100% that killing a wild animal for doing what comes natural, is wrong. There was evidence the tiger had been taunted. The wall, albeit not 16 ft tall, was enough to keep Tatiana within captivity. There had to have been extraordinary circumstances for her to not only jump the fence, but to attack those young men. I find it hard to believe these guys were there with good intentions. And now this beautiful animal is dead, and one of her 'victims' is being touted as a hero. Give me a break.
Comment: It is sad the Tiger was shot. However, there have been many posts on other sites by zoologists and zoo keepers that have said tranquilizers take as long as 10 to 15 minutes to work. The drug does not go into the animal intreviounsly, like when humans are put under for surgery. The tiger could have not only killed the young man he had been attacking when the officers arrived, but in 10 to 15 minutes the tiger could have killed many more and it would have been an even bigger tragedy.
Comment: I think it's terrible that this beautiful creature that was taken out of it's environment and caged up for our benefit was then killed for behaving naturally. I don't have a problem with zoos at all but to kill an animal because it is behaving naturally is wrong and an injustice to animals everywhere. Shame on the zoo and the police....how about tranquilizers and rehabilition to release in the wild??? I will certainly never patronize the SF zoo.
Comment: The tiger was born and raised in captivity. It wasn't taken out from the wild. In fact, tigers born in the wild are far, far more likely to be murdered by poachers. That is why there are less than 400 left in the wild.
Comment: It never should have happened. But, gee...bad things happen everywhere anytime - to good people, too! Think of all the trillions of people that have visited zoos? Things are never perfect. Crap happens.
Comment: I don't know if "deserved" is the right word, but certainly "caused" is applicable if they taunted the tiger. It is like driving while intoxicated--you may not "deserve" to die as a result, but you certainly are the cause of your own death.
Comment: It shouldn't have been POSSIBLE to "cause" animal-to-human contact there. And the one that died "caused" his friend to live.
Comment: I think it really depends on whether these boys did anything or not. There is a vast difference between an innocent bystander and someone who was contributing to the subsequent tragedy. Same thing re: his saving of his friend. If they were innocent, it was a very brave thing. If they were at fault, it really isn't. Think about it--if someone sets a house on fire, then rescues a person trapped inside, does that make that person a hero?? Not in my book........
Comment: Just how do you propose we protect everyone all the time? WE can't stop drunk driving. How are we goign to stop stupidity?
Comment: Why do you not get that the zoo's responsibility was to keep the animals and humans SEPARATED, for the protection of both? At this writing, it is only SPECULATION whether the boys "taunted" the animal. It is NOT speculation that the young man that died was trying to save the other fellow, and you do not know whether he had anything to do with causing the situation or not.
I repeat: The obvious CAUSE was the failure to keep the animals and humans SEPARATED. Otherwise, it could not have happened.
Comment: Well, as I said, it depends on what the boys were doing, which is not known at this point. If they were taunting the tiger, they should bear some responsibility for what happened.
Comment: While you don't like the sound of the word "deserved", it certainly is what you keep implying.
Unfortunately, the visiting public is always going to behave in all sorts of ways, both good and bad. Perhaps you don't realize that most of us would rather not visit a place where an animal can get out and kill the humans, even if somebody has provoked it.
Comment: Thank you for the relief of a good chuckle in this debacle and tragedy. I agree completely. It wouldn't have been the relevant issue to me if I'd been standing nearby after the cat was teased. Add me to the list of those who would "rather not visit a place where an animal can get out and kill the humans."
Comment: Well, then, due to a lack of intelligence on the part of the visiting public, I think all zoos should be closed down and all the animals relocated to sanctuaries where they can live their lives in as normal a fashion as possible.
Comment: Here is the web address for the ASPCA. If one's sympathies lie with the animals, they are a far more constructive and venerable organization than PETA could ever hope to be.
http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer
Comment: Depends. If you want to help animals on an individual basis, but not offend anyone, then support Animal Welfare by contacting ASPCA. If you want to significantly impact the way in which humans interact with other species and do not mind stepping on a few toes, then support Animal Rights by contacting PETA.
Comment: I know PETA is urging the Zoo to shut down its tiger exhibit, if anyone is interested in assisting in that effort. The remaining tigers will then be moved to a sanctuary where they can live the remainder of their lives in peace.
Comment: I have read in other posts that in many sanctuaries the large cats are actually kept in cages and do not have near the room they have in zoos. Is that true? Not all zoos are created equal, the really good ones do have very large habitats with extremely large moats and walls.
Comment: It depends on the sanctuary. I know that PAWS is a very good sanctuary.
Comment: If the attack was deserved on the basis of human stupidity, 99% of the people who have posted comments here would be in very bad shape.
Comment: And are you implying that you would be above the 99th percentile?
Comment: Okay. Make it 98%. Now we can include you.
Comment: Can you be generous enough to drop your percentile down to 97% to include me, too?
Comment: It turns out that the young man who was killed was trying to save the life of one of the others.
I have never seen so many stupid comments in my life as I have read here. Yes, the tiger was only being a tiger - and the teenage boys MAY have been acting like teenage boys are known to do, although one of them gave his life to save another. I thought the idea was to keep the animals and the humans, no matter what their age, race, gender, hairdos, national origin or any other proclivities - SEPARATED.
Comment: this incident is entirely a result of the zoo's negligence. the 20 ft moat had no water in it and the 18 ft fence turned out to only be 12 ft, well below the international recommendation of at least 16ft for large cats such as tigers. the reports that the victims were taunting the tiger was probobly fabricated by the zoo in an attempt to cover their butts.
Comment: I find it increasingly curious that after all these years being kept in a zoo that this tiger should choose these three boys on this day to make an attack. Then lay next to them and begin an attack again when one begins to yell for help. Let's request an autopsy on the tiger and see what damage was done to IT before the attack. Yes, very curious, indeed!!
Comment: I have no doubt that the boys tormented the tiger. The dry moat was filled with things that had been thrown at it, not to mention the boy's shoe that fell off as he dangled his legs. Oh yeah, and three troublesome teenage boys hanging out by the tigers AFTER the zoo was closed? That is not innocent behavior.
Comment: The "20 ft" moat was actually 33 ft. Plus, it isn't supposed to have water in it. Tigers swim, so that wouldn't really stop them! Even if the wall was shorter than recommended, it still worked for 40 years. Obviously, something exceptional happened in this case to make the tiger escape. I have no doubt that it was cruelly tormented and agitated.
Comment: i agree u sound so right the zoo is trying to cover up i dont care if they did taunt the animal the tiger should not have been able to get him whatsoever they are responsible for our safety when we are paying our money to come in there environment it should not have been able to get no where near the boy and his friends this is so sad on christmas day may god be with the surviors and family members please they are definitly gonna need it..........
Comment: Lightsout56 If you were any kind of animal expert you know that animals in captivity do not lose their natural instincts but they do lose a fear of humans. During feeding time (as you may see animals in the wild do) they can become agressive and possessive. To feed a Tiger with your hands like that is very foolish and it doesn't mean the animal should be put down. You're an idiot, after all, you have taken wild animals and forced them to conform to living in a small enclosure for their entire life for the simple reason that you and your kids get pleasure from them as 'spectacles then have the nerve to say that it should be killed for showing it's natural instincts even though it was due to human error? I agree that the fencing or the moat should have been safer but if the teenagers were taunting the Tigress I suddenly would feel less sympathetic. It's incredible that people condone human cruelty towards animals but when animals retaliate to that cruelty it's suddenly enought to say, 'if an animal attacks a human, you put it to sleep. Period' Check your thinking, it's flawed and think twice before saying that you love animals, because it sure doesn't show in your comment.
Comment: It wouldn't matter if the victims were taunting the tiger, it is the zoo director's fault for not correcting the fence height for the tiger's cage. The director should be fired. It is too bad for the animal as that is only natural instinct at work.
Comment: By the way, it is only speculation, that the three men were taunting the tiger. They don't yet have all the facts.
Comment: I love animals. However, this animal should have been put down after the first attack a year ago. Studies have proved that any animal that has attacked a human, will most certainly do it again. That goes for dogs, tigers, and all other animals. If an animal attacks a human, you put it to sleep. Period.
Comment: Obviously, you don't love animals. There are less than 400 Siberian tigers in the world, and that is AFTER they have bounced back from being VERY near to extinction. Tatiana was a healthy young female who could have brought many babies into the world to help save her species. Now, because of some idiot teenagers, they are one step closer to extinction.
Comment: Lightsout56 If you were any kind of animal expert you know that animals in captivity do not lose their natural instincts but they do lose a fear of humans. During feeding time (as you may see animals in the wild do) they can become agressive and possessive. To feed a Tiger with your hands like that is very foolish and it doesn't mean the animal should be put down. You're an idiot, after all, you have taken wild animals and forced them to conform to living in a small enclosure for their entire life for the simple reason that you and your kids get pleasure from them as 'spectacles then have the nerve to say that it should be killed for showing it's natural instincts even though it was due to human error? I agree that the fencing or the moat should have been safer but if the teenagers were taunting the Tigress I suddenly would feel less sympathetic. It's incredible that people condone human cruelty towards animals but when animals retaliate to that cruelty it's suddenly enought to say, 'if an animal attacks a human, you put it to sleep. Period' Check your thinking, it's flawed and think twice before saying that you love animals, because it sure doesn't show in your comment.
Comment: 3bears: Whenever, however you die you will be getting exactly what you deserve too.
Comment: I feel angered that three young men have nothing better to do on Christmas Day but to teasea a caged wild animal and than claim to be "victims" They Got EXACTLY what they diserved, too bad they all didn't die. Shame on their so called parents for raising such idiots. I hope they are prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law.
Comment: I absolutely agree!!! It is about time greedy humans stopped abusing animals and the earth. The cruelest, most dangerous creatures on earth are destructive humans.
Comment: Your telling me 1 man deserved to die and 2 almost killed. Because they teased a tiger.. WOW what should they get if they tease your sister...
Comment: Was it true the "victims" were harassing the cat before the attacks?
Comment: Did they have witnesses to the incident? There was mention of the "Victims" harassing the cat before it attacked.
Comment: I haven't noticed in any American press releases what I read in a foreign release. There were footprints on a rail where there shouldn't have been, there was shoe and blood where it shouldn't have been and there was evidence of taunting i.e. pinecones sticks etc. in the pens with the tiger. These boys angered this tiger to the point that when they point got what they were asking for. The story I read speculated that the leg hanging over the enclosure was grabbed by the tiger allowing her to pull herself out. Our press never mentions this because our liberal press would never want to blame these boys who apparently instigated this incident. Then after her escape the tiger NEVER bothered innocent visitors as she tracked the two boys who ran to the cafe. They were the two she was after and apparently for a reason. The sad things is that the tiger was an endangered animal acting on instinct and these boys pushed too far and paid the price for their actions.
Comment: brookschaos, i can pretty much guarantee you that if the police had not shot the tiger, it WOULD have 'bothered' (ie attacked) other innocent zoo patrons... after it was through with the two boys it was mauling in the cafe.
Comment: This whole situation is very sad...I think now is the time to focus on how to prevent it from happening again.
Comment: I'm not replying anymore, It's a waste of time.
Comment: Well, if this comment is to me, then I would just ask that you do not attribute any more ridiculous comments to me. If you want to respond to anything I wrote, please read it first.
Comment: It was certainly a human error. It is our responsibility to care for wild life, free or in captivity. 55 years ago two drunks went , AT MIDNIGHT, into Mexico City zoo, they made a bet. One of them had to take a swim in the polar bears enclosure, so he did. The female attacked him, was shot and died. She, as Tatiana, acted according to her nature. There is no such thing as a vicious bear, tiger, elephant etc. Caregivers must prevent such type of encounters between visitors and animals because humans are prone to harass animals. Why not have tv cameras and tranquilizer shots in a first world zoo? POOR TIGER !!!!! she fell victim of human stupidity. we are 6 thousand three hundred million people and the tiger, AS MANY OTHER, is an endanger species.SHAME ON US HUMANS!!!!!!!
Posted By: carminaburana carmenrm80@hotmail.com 12/27/2007 20:25
Comment: crstardust - You don't know if it the 12 1/2 ft was built to save money - that's an outrage statement....learn facts first. Still, the tiger behaved how nature intented him to be...an animal. The tiger is not human. He can't reason.
Comment: It was certainly a human error. It is our responsibility to care for wild life, free or in captivity. 55 years ago two drunks went , AT MIDNIGHT, into Mexico City zoo, they made a bet. One of them had to take a swim in the polar bears enclosure, so he did. The female attacked him, was shot and died. She, as Tatiana, acted according to her nature. There is no such thing as a vicious bear, tiger, elephant etc. Caregivers must prevent such type of encounters between visitors and animals because humans are prone to harass animals. Why not have tv cameras and tranquilizer shots in a first world zoo? POOR TIGER !!!!! she fell victim of human stupidity. we are 6 thousand three hundred million people and the tiger, AS MANY OTHER, is an endanger species.SHAME ON US HUMANS!!!!!!!
Comment: Doesn't anyone wonder why this tiger picked these three and not the thousands that have visited the exhibit over the years. Its bad that one died and the others are hurt, bu
