A Hero for Democracy?

As Pakistan threatens to fall into chaos, the martyred Benazir Bhutto may become in death what she never achieved in life

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  • Posted By: Ali Tahir @ 01/03/2008 6:30:07 AM

    don't make the world foolish by the name of war on terrorism.

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 01/02/2008 3:10:31 AM

    Both Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto were brought back to Pakistan from exile under US pressure. Since Musharraf is a recalcitrant US dog, the US brought in the other well mannered freshly trained dogs ( or rather a dog and a ***). The terrorists are not an issue here. It is OIL. Pakistan under Pervez Musharraf has agreed on the $7.4billion gas pipeline connecting Iran to India via Pakistan. This will put in a big hole in the bucket on the sanctions against Iran for its nuclear program. The US was not able to pressure India to abort the deal and Musharraf is going through with the project. Benazir neither die for democracy nor for Pakistan - she died for the US.

  • Posted By: Srada @ 01/02/2008 12:21:02 AM

    This is response to most of SKVAM's comments and posts.

    No one will sweat about anything what you said,, its just an example of "Trash comes out of trashy minds ". Better to leave the trash alone.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/29/2007 4:50:10 PM

    THE THIRD WAVE IS COMING. We are in big trouble extremist and children of moderates all around the world are being seduced by the chapter of JIHAD. If you look at the Madrassa's they are brainwashing future genereations in that region with the chapter of JIHAD. IT is like subliminal indoctrination. This is very dangerous. THEY ARE TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO FIGHT JIHAD FOR one hundred years. Obama is the only candidate that can change antiamericanism in that region. It just feels right voting for OBAMA

    • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/30/2007 3:27:51 PM

      There is only one great wave that will be in time victorious: Nonviolence, democracy, and reason, all supported by compassion, forgiveness and redemption. Islam will one day be looked upon as nothing more than a modern version of Baal worship. In Carthage, they used to heat a bronze large statue to Baal and sacrifice living infants in its arms. Islam today kills with even greater coldness, beheading and being proud of it. Rock worshippers of Mecca, turn to the true faith, the faith of nonviolence and reason, whether it be Buddha, Christ, or satyagraha. Yours is a failed religion and the day you open your backward nations to the evangelism of Buddha, Christ, and the philosophies of such great nonviolent reasoners as Socrates and Gandhi, your chains, forged by Mohammed, will be broken and you will be free, free of your tyrannical governments, your hypocritical elites, your mobs who seem never to have heard of the candlelight vigil and only rocks and guns and knives, and most of all, your dead-end faith in a book that tents women to protect feeble minded men from drooling, but stupidly assumes tented women cannot drool as well. Either tent your men in that useless slave rag, the burkha, or all of you become free.

      • Posted By: Srada @ 01/02/2008 12:11:58 AM

        No one will sweat about anything what you said,, its just an example of "Trash comes out of trashy minds ". Better to leave the trash alone.

  • Posted By: tor777 @ 01/01/2008 10:38:57 PM

    How could someone who never had or believed in fair elections within her party ( she was a lifelong chairperson of her party) have the courage to stand in front of the world that she believed in democracy.

  • Posted By: karaswart @ 12/31/2007 5:48:59 PM

    Mahatma Gandhi (PBUH) showed mankind the way of peace. Nelson Mandela (PBUH) and Mother Teresa (PBUH) have shown us to love the 'other'. Religion causes differences among people and is un Godly.

  • Posted By: iqbalchandio @ 12/29/2007 4:02:38 PM

    (List of TOP 10 most wanted Criminals exposed)

    The real actors who planned the plot and killed Benazir Bhutto (chairperson of PPP) are:

    Rtd. Gen. Pervaiz Musharaf President (The most wanted # 1)
    Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi PML ??? Q (The most wanted # 2)
    Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain PML ??? Q (The most wanted # 3)
    Ejaz ul Haq PML ??? Q (The most wanted # 4)
    Chaudry Zahoor Elahi PML ??? Q (The most wanted # 5)
    Former Interior Minister Ali Durani PML ??? Q (The most wanted # 6)
    Bgdr. Javed Iqbal Cheema Interior Minister (The most wanted # 7)
    Major Gen. Rashid Qureshi PAK Army (The most wanted # 8)
    Major Waheed Arshad (DG ISPR) (The most wanted # 9)
    Lt. Gen. Shahid Aziz (DG ISI) (The most wanted # 10)

    Most of the above belong to Pakistan Mulim League (PML Q) and Army plus Agencies.

    Besides the above Top 10 list, other units that contributed furiously in killing Benazir are:

    1. Core Commanders and ISI force men
    2. Agencies and governing establishment who are hidden motives / sponsors to both army terrorists and their trained civilian terrorists (army Al Qaeda), were the most active and sole actors as well as organizers strategically, financially and logistically to assassinate Benazir Bhutto (former Prime Minister of Pakistan).
    3. Dr. Arbab Ghulam Rahim (PML-Q) and Ex. Chief Minister of Sindh who has been a key player in killing Benazir and has been actively involved in the conspiracy against Benazir.

    Also, the latest news on CNN has also confirmed the email Benazir had sent out against President Musharaf where she had said that Musharaf wants to kill her with the support of his allies and army plus agencies.

    O you Pakistanis. Wake up for God sake. Enough is enough. Kick out the filthy and oppressor army and their killer agencies.

    Army and Agencies kill the innocent people of Pakistan. They plan and blast remote control bombs and do target killings and then they call the innocent victims who are being killed in the bombings as attackers and Suicide bombers. Suicide bombers, the biggest myth of the history but no reality. There are no suicide bombers but all the remote control bombs get blasted. They just want to put Islam and Muslims on trail, continue brutal government and to digest the dollars that???s set.

    Please forward this message to as many as possible so every Pakistani and other communities may know who are the true enemies of Pakistan, the real oppressors and terrorists.
    Wake up. Wake up. Wake up. For God Sake. Please.

    • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/31/2007 12:50:28 AM

      And here we see the essence of the Muslim problem: Identify presumed guilty ones, excute them fair and square, and never stop to investigate. If you are listing enemies, list the biggest enemy of Pakistan, Islam, a religion that is actually two religions, Sunni and Shiite, both of which presume to be the final word on faith, both of whom are the left and right arms of a violent faith, both of whom feed killings and murder, and both of whom formed, with Englisher support, the worthless state of Pakistan. The Pakistani people, or should I say elites since they are the ones who abuse the public blind trust, never got rid of the tyrants who murdered 1-3 million Bengalis, all Muslims, thereby nullifying the reason Pakistan was formed, as a Muslim state. India has given greater rights to Muslims than Pakistan. Pakistan should declare a secular state, allow the free flow of religious ideas and with that the conversion of the blindly violent masses, their true liberation can begin. Pakistan, with its murder of millions of Muslims in Bengal, with its persecution of Ahmadis, no longer represents any Muslims anywhere, including in Pakistan let alone Kashmir, an integral part of India, a secular state. Well, now that the dear Muslim reader has read my response, perhaps, he must get back to plotting revenge, the great mission of all Muslims against all Muslims and non-Muslims everywhere. Please, go on...kill in the name of that violent book written by that violent man.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/30/2007 6:21:42 AM

    MUSLIMS THAT ARE MODERATES AND peaceful are susceptible to the indoctrination of the JIHAD chapter. At any time a young MUSLIM can change and carry out an attack in the name of GOD. THIS IS WHY THE CHApter of JIHAD is so dangerous. WE have kids in this country who have grown up in this country, falling under the spell. Suicide bombers are even doctors and lawyers who are citizens in western countries. The crusades happened centuries ago. Your religion has not evolved it is still in the MEDIEVAL AGES and this is a big problem. This is why BHUTTO was so visciously assassinated. IT WAS A TERRORIST WEARING BLACK GLASSES THAT CARRIED OUT THE ASSISSINATION' WOW WHAT A MESSAGE, BHUTTO USED TO WEAR AMERICAN BLACK GLASSES. THERE are MILLIONS OF pakistanis that have rejected western culture and they have sent their message. IT HAS BEEN HEARD WITH A BANG AROUND THE WORLD

    Comment: Is this democracy or a family dynasty. Either you have democracy or you do not. Handing leadership to family members is the source of corruption. What a chocie, corruption and an American runned government or the Military. We need to let people choose their destiny if not we will be stuck where we do not belong. I as an American am distrurbed that we are medaling all around the world, while people on this side are starving, homeless, without health care ectt.... THis is crazy, just because Bhutto dies we would choose a nut like Guilliani.
    Even moderate Muslims are swayed by the JIHAD CHApter. The offspring of these moderates have already carried out attacks in England and have tried in Canada and AMerica.Wow. Homegrown Citizens. What is amazing is how they are influenced by the Iraq war. They turn on the T.V and become enraged. It is like they have smelled "BAD BARBECUE". Their only hope to strike back is JIHAD. Remember Muslims have been indoctrinating their own for centuries. They have finally perfected it. This chapter allows leaders to indoctrinate their people all around the world. The " Ayattolah" has used this doctrine on Salman Rushdie who is an INDIAN. The only way to deal with a nuclear threat, is in private. We should gurantee all countries FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS. However if the people choose an extremist government that wants to use weapons of mass destruction then they must understand the consequences. IT IS THESE SAME CONSEQUENCES THAT have DETERed RUSSIA FROM USING THEIR NUCLEAR ARSERNAL AS MUSCLE. WE WILL Annihlate YOU if you threaten with nuclear weapons. That is why the Middle East Governments threaten Israel because they know better. The same goes for pakistan, any government that takes power after Free and Fair Elections, will be delivered the same message, In addition, they will assist us in the HUNT FOR BIN LADEN. Keeping Bin LADEN alive seems to be making a lot of people rich.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/29/2007 4:49:30 PM

    No one person can bring change, it takes a movement. Bhutto's death could have started this movement. Or it could of ended a movement. Only time will tell. This was prophesized that a woman leader would be assassinated and that it would impact the whole globe. Everyone thought it was a possible referal to an American president. Who thought it would have been Bhutto. THe extremist movement still has uncontrolled grudges against the Clinton's. Hillary Clinton could fuel the extremist cause. This extremist movement views "things" different. I felt bad when I heard the news partly because Bhutto was a women. To us it is an unspeakable crime but to others who belong to powerful extermist movements it is "nothing". These people do not care. We need Obama as president in order to fuel the peace process. Our best chance at peace and security is OBAMA. We need someone who's chief policy makers believe in the movement for peace and prospeity for all. One who understands that our troops are dying and that this issue is more important than their own personal political careers. After the assassination of JFK and Martin Luther KIng, the civil rights MOVEMENT succeeded under the Jonhnson administration in having civil rights legislation passed into law. It was a MOVEMENT that could not be stopped. Bin Laden is a god to extremist, he is their BHUTTO, extremist have no problems committting atrocities. In fact it is their dream, it is their end goal in life. This is why we cannot let these extremist continue to multiply. Obama is our best chance. He is also intelligent enough to know Russia and it's breakaway republics in Central Asia as well as the technological advancement of CHina and it blatent theft of intellectual property is a threat that needs to be dealt with.
    THERE IS A DIRECT LINK BETWEEN BHUTTO AND AMERICAN POLITICS. Her death is a wake uP call to all Politicians and Voters

  • Posted By: Confidant001 @ 12/29/2007 2:23:47 PM

    I agree she had two opportunities as an elected prime minister. But let me refresh your memory and recall reality. When she competed in the elections the first time, the military empire via the ISI created the IJI (Islami Jumhorri Itehad). This was a clandestine attempt to deny her power as Bhutto or any other Politician of stature is considered the threat to the Military Empire and the Bureaucracy. She won the elections, but was denied power for 16 days as the Military and Bureaucratic Mob (aka Ghulam Ishaq Khan the interim President) very craftily negotiated with her to give up as much power as possible. Ghulam Ishaq Khan (like Musharraf now) got elected as the President by virtually putting a gun on her head and was able to keep 95% of the power that typically is in the hands of an elected Prime Minister. Military service Chiefs were answerable to the President and not to her. She became a Prime Minister who was no more than the Mayor of Islamabad/Chairperson of the CDA. ISI insured that the most powerful province of Punjab was ruled by their newly created alliance the IJI (the sole called champion of democracy Mr. Nawaz Sharif played totally in the hands of the Military intelligence). If she started a development project for the poor in his province he would get that project stopped and unlimited turf battles were on the cards. The Generals and the Bureaucracy were so pleased to see these fire works. Everything was going on as per plans.....even better. To add fuel to fire she had a husband who did not do any great service to her by his not so prudent behavior, He was no Dennis Thatcher. She had no support from the powers that have had a major stake in running Pakistan and its eventual callous progress. She was a newly crowned Queen who had no one to groom her. Their were conspiracies after conspiracies hatched because it was impossible to let a leader be created for the country of Pakistan as the Generals and The Bureaucratic elite would than have to return to their not so lucrative jobs and the resources of the country would not have been so easy to plunder. Military Empire and the Bureaucratic elite did their best and succeeded in their effort to make her fall from grace and Benazir Bhutto despite her Charisma but lack of experience was made to look what she was not. This is how the Generals of the Pakistan Army and the Bureaucracy insure that no political leader worth his/her name can politically survive. And if they happen to survive politically and make a place in peoples hearts than they are removed from the scene in some other way.... be it Fatima Jinnah (rig the elections),be it Mujeeb ur Rehman (they would lose half the country in the process). be it Nawaz Sharif (throw him in exile and when he returns deport him, returns again disbar him from taking part in elections) and be it the daughter of the east........rest in peace our heroine.

  • Posted By: Confidant001 @ 12/29/2007 2:21:34 PM

    I agree she had two opportunities as an elected prime minister. But let me refresh your memory and recall reality. When she competed in the elections the first time, the military empire via the ISI created the IJI (Islami Jumhorri Itehad). This was a clandestine attempt to deny her power as Bhutto or any other Politician of stature is considered the threat to the Military Empire and the Bureaucracy. She won the elections, but was denied power for 16 days as the Military and Bureaucratic Mob (aka Ghulam Ishaq Khan the interim President) very craftily negotiated with her to give up as much power as possible. Ghulam Ishaq Khan (like Musharraf now) got elected as the President by virtually putting a gun on her head and was able to keep 95% of the power that typically is in the hands of an elected Prime Minister. Military service Chiefs were answerable to the President and not to her. She became a Prime Minister who was no more than the Mayor of Islamabad/Chairperson of the CDA. ISI insured that the most powerful province of Punjab was ruled by their newly created alliance the IJI (the sole called champion of democracy Mr. Nawaz Sharif played totally in the hands of the Military intelligence). If she started a development project for the poor in his province he would get that project stopped and unlimited turf battles were on the cards. The Generals and the Bureaucracy were so pleased to see these fire works. Everything was going on as per plans.....even better. To add fuel to fire she had a husband who did not do any great service to her by his not so prudent behavior, He was no Dennis Thatcher. She had no support from the powers that have had a major stake in running Pakistan and its eventual callous progress. She was a newly crowned Queen who had no one to groom her. Their were conspiracies after conspiracies hatched because it was impossible to let a leader be created for the country of Pakistan as the Generals and The Bureaucratic elite would than have to return to their not so lucrative jobs and the resources of the country would not have been so easy to plunder. Military Empire and the Bureaucratic elite did their best and succeeded in their effort to make her fall from grace and Benazir Bhutto despite her Charisma but lack of experience was made to look what she was not. This is how the Generals of the Pakistan Army and the Bureaucracy insure that no political leader worth his/her name can politically survive. And if they happen to survive politically and make a place in peoples hearts than they are removed from the scene in some other way.... be it Fatima Jinnah (rig the elections),be it Mujeeb ur Rehman (they would lose half the country in the process). be it Nawaz Sharif (throw him in exile and when he returns deport him, returns again disbar him from taking part in elections) and be it the daughter of the east........rest in peace our heroine.

  • Posted By: jojoc10 @ 12/29/2007 1:04:08 PM

    I think she was most influential while she was alive.

  • Posted By: magua @ 12/29/2007 6:42:12 AM

    I am greatly disturbed by this act of brutality...but is Banazir Bhutto a hero for democracy? She may be an influential democratically elected Prime Minister of a democratic country but a hero for democracy I think she is not. Why? She had two opportunities as a premier and she blew it all. In the first bout she was fired in 1990 for corruption and again in 1996 she was fired for making a big mess of a govt. (the big mess stem from her appointment of her husband Asif Ali Zardari as the Investment Minister from 1993 to 1996). And now she wanted to do it again for the third time...OMG what another big mess she would create should she succeeded...well, I kind of feel no remorse for her demise except by the brutal and painful method she had to go thru!Democratically she will go down in history as a figure that we shall not look up upon.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 12/29/2007 3:34:43 AM

    We are in big trouble extremist and children of moderates all around the world are being seduced by the chapter of JIHAD. If you look at the Madrassa's they are brainwashing futre genereations in that region with the chapter of JIHAD. IT is like subliminal indoctrination. This is very dangerous. THEY ARE TEACHING THE CHILDREN TO FIGHT JIHAD FOR one hundred years. Obama is the only candidate that can change antiamericanism in that region. It just feels right voting for OBAMA

  • Posted By: ParanoidofObama @ 12/27/2007 8:50:40 PM

    The last person we need as president is OBAMA!!!!!!! He was raised as a radical muslim in Indonesia! His father was a Muslim and his mother an Athiest. When his parents divorced and his mother rmarried, his stepfather was a radical Muslim from Indonesia. His mother and stepfather relocatd with Obama to Indonesia where he attended a muslim (Wahabi) school. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging war with us. He is pretending to be a christian in an attempt to downplay his muslim background. HE WILL NOT EVEN SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE!!! I am scared to death at the thought of him becoming president, and so should all of America!!!!!!!

    • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 12/28/2007 10:08:48 PM

      Great, Obama sounds wonderful - just think what electing HIM for our President would say to the rest of the world, particularly those who hate the US for its blind and arrogant ignorance, its total dependency on petroleum that is running out in less than a decade from now (figure about five years), and our FAT, self-satisfied, self-righteous attitude towards the Third World (Developing Economies) that we do little or nothing to help, that we in fact cause nothing but tragedy, trouble, death and violence against --- for no justifiable reason! Not even an idealistic one, like fighting "communism" or the Nazis. Get a life, you armchair ignoramuses!

      • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/29/2007 1:58:24 AM

        It's interesting, your self-loathing. If you hate all America stands for, go live in Pakistan, or Iran, or any number of Islamofascist states, or perhaps you prefer the ideal Koranic life of reading the Koran and doing it's bidding, which includes mistreatment and killing of non-Muslims. Go be an aid worker in an Islamofascist nation and see how long it takes before some Muslim kills you or kidnaps you for ransom. Stop hating yourself and the United States (I'm not a citizen of the U.S., by the way), and start loving ideals and not using the misconduct of one to justify and excuse the misconduct of another. Your illogic is really incredible, you are so easily swept away in the river of your own histrionic emotions, you swoon, faint, and display your political ignorance, clothed as it is in shrill self-hate.

    • Posted By: SirFsUpaLot @ 12/28/2007 2:30:27 AM

      Reply to ParanoidofObama:
      You were paranoid long before Mr. Obama came on the scene. Paranoia is the seat of racism and hate
      in America. Your message is to serve one purpose: Influence the minds of others to think negatively of a
      good and decent fellow. How many has GOD sent to help and redeem mankind, and skum who are full
      of hate and contempt like you have struck them down. Do you think your hatred and contempt for a people
      is any better and acceptable than these terrorists.
      You've been terrorizing us here at home for centuries with bombs and many other methods of death.
      Doe's 'timothy mcvey' come to mind being the most recent large scale terrorist act?
      How many has 'GOD' sent to do good and redeem mankind, only to have the mentally ill who are full
      of rage, take them down. I can think of three immediately!
      JESUS CHRIST
      ABRAHAM LINCOLN
      MARTIN LUTHER KING
      and countless others whose mission was for the betterment of all.

  • Posted By: B. Suleman @ 12/28/2007 12:48:17 AM

    I am a Pakistani citizen and am in Islamabad right now, have been in this city for my entire life. And I just have to say this: WHO DIED AND MADE AMERICA, SUPER NANNY? The US has enough problems of it own to tackle. They just need to stop interfering in what another country is going through. We never asked for this enforced help. Thankyou. We will settle our own problems. The only thing America has done so far, is to enrage the Muslim world further by false accusations and unnecessary interference.

    I'm by no means a hater. But if I don't intrude in the American system "to supposedly set right" your problems such as Bush, increasing crime rate and whatnot, I just don't see why the US has any rights to do that for us.

    Jihad is encouraged in Islam but here's a little simple shocker: Do you know the difference between self-DEFENSE and ATTACK? Jihad is by all means, the former and never the latter. So if anybody is commiting agression under the name of Jihad, they are no more Islamic than Britney Spears.

    Kudos to so many of my Western brothers whose posts above have shown incredible wisdom and moderation.

    • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/29/2007 12:46:25 AM

      Are there Pakistani citizens, or subjects to the lethal military and intelligence services and fodder for the madrassas and islamofascist killing machines?

    • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/28/2007 2:19:42 AM

      What idiocy. The Koran is violent. Jihad may be an act of meditation, but Mohammed repeatedly used violence and encouraged it in his book, the Koran. The brutality of the Muslims in the slave trade in Africa, in the destruction of native civilizations, in the destruction of art and libraries, in the destruction of temples and stupas and churches, is well documented. Pakistan is a failed state; stop blaming others. Indeed, there is no Islam, only Sunni and Shiite, both of whom are more than happy to kill each other as if there is no tomorrow. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword; those who choose a religion of the sword should be man enough to accept it when they lose over and over and over and over again.

    • Posted By: Xalindros @ 12/28/2007 1:26:44 AM

      Ignorance is held by all sides, America and Pakistan. We may dabble in Pakistan's policies and government but we have to due to political interest. Pakistan would do the same with America if they had the power and influence to do so. Yes, we have our own problems but to put it in perspective, our countries problems are relatively weak by comparison. We do not have a country on the brink of civil war and we do not have a country that houses terrorists and nuclear threats. It is a much different situation there and someone must address it since the rest of the world turns their heads away from such problems. Problematic countries do not get better without aid just as a diseased hospital patient does not get better without treatment.

  • Posted By: KIRIT DESAI @ 12/27/2007 10:44:26 PM

    Will State Department ever learn from its seemingly idiotic way of looking at Indian subcontinent? Pakistan was acountry borne out of hate and in order to survive it will have to continue to Hate India. Product of evil Empire of Great Britain, Pakistan is now breeding the terrorism like no other country can. Let us be honest. Policy of West has given birth to religious extremism all over Middle East. India suffered from regious repercussion for centuries by these same religious zealots. West never cared for millions and millions who had their life style and meaning turned upside down. Balance of power in subcontinent was heavily tilted towards Pakistan by all US administrations since 1947. Is there anyone out there who is listening the cries of injustice to India? Where are the balanced minds of US politicians? Tears will be shown flowing on the cheeks of innocent people of Pakistan. Eulogies will be delivered. Bhutto will be made greatre than life. Lectures will be given. But is there anyone who will ever attempt to find and resolutely act to solve this terrorism problem, by simply thinking straight? God, Allah and Bhagwan will be with those who will act like Gandhi.
    Kirit Desai

    • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/28/2007 2:39:07 AM

      Thank you for your comments. It is remarkable to me that such a violent religion, one that has destroyed churches, temples, stupas, art, architecture, set fire to libraries, murdered monks, spread continental slavery throughout Africa, all documented by their court historians and by such scholars as Max Weber the sociologist and Joseph Campbell the mythologist can be passed off as a religion of peace. These Moslems will never be nonviolent because their book, the Koran, and their founder, Mohammed, support violence. Gandhi believed in dialogue and the Moslem barbarians do not. Socrates says the unexamined life is not worth living and without dialogue we have no unexamined life, only monologue which over time becomes self-deluding. Moslems believe themselves persecuted, but they hate each other with a vengeance, Sunni and Shiite. Buddha, Christ, Gandhi, these are the people of nonviolence; Mohammed, an apostle of violence. There is no people of the book, as Moslems like to say. You are quite right in noting that only nonviolence supports reasoning; violence, in the words of Socrates, negates reason, hence Islam is an irrational religion. It is useless to blame the followers, as they love to with the Crusades which lasted 100 years and that intermittently, when they brutalized India for nine hundred years; no I blame the founder of that violent religion and its founding book. The Moslems fear dialogue, that is why they ban evangelism by any other religion in their pathetic dictatorships they call nations.

      • Posted By: leodelaney @ 12/28/2007 4:28:11 AM

        Diodn't the Christians do the same thing for about a thousand years? Islam is no different that Christianity when it comes to destructive behavior.

        • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 12/28/2007 10:04:44 PM

          Yes, Christians are just as bad, and so are the Jews, let's face facts. Israel has been in defiance of UN Reolutions for many decades now, but we jump all over Iraq for the same UN resolution "defiance" that in fact didn't exist. Nobody has worse double standards than American politicians, except perhaps our voting public, led in the entire farce by the assinine press who calls itself "free" - it's a pawn to dumb us all down and keep us afraid, a pawn of the US Government, whoever is in power, Democrat and Republican alike. Wake up and smell the frickin' coffee!

          • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/29/2007 12:43:18 AM

            Of course, followers of all religions can be hypocrites and violent, but the words of Jesus or Buddha are not the words of the violent, killing Mohammed. Yes, I know it feels good to say all faiths are equal, but they are not. By the way, it's not the coffee you need to smell, it is your profound ignorance and with it the sweet smell of a book you have opened. You do know what a book is don't you?

    • Posted By: nancylove @ 12/28/2007 1:14:18 AM

      senseless where does india comes in the discussion

      • Posted By: Mel Vilander @ 12/28/2007 4:58:06 AM

        senseless what do you think pakistan was before 1947?

      • Posted By: Mel Vilander @ 12/28/2007 4:56:33 AM

        Senseless what is pakistan before 1947?

  • Posted By: leodelaney @ 12/28/2007 12:10:15 AM

    All of this is nonsense because it is inevitable that within five years, regardless of who is in charge now or who may be in charge next year, Pakistan will become an Islamic Republic. Nothing can stop this. The Age of Monarchies has passed, the Age of Democracies has passed, the Age of Colonial Empires has passed, the Age of Dictatorships has passed, the Age of Communism has passed, the Age of Religious Oligarcy has passed, and it is now the Age of Islamic Republics that we are entering. And the United States will do all in its power to make these new Islamic Republics hate us and want us removed from the stage. We shall do so in the name of maintaining "Democracy" which we babble fatuously about wanting to spread around the world. The United State cares nothing for "Democracy;" the United States is in the process of promoting right wing military dictatorships. Left wing dictatorship, bad; Democracy, bad, Socialism, bad; religious leadership, bad; monarchy, bad; right wing military dictatorship, good. The United States will find itself once again caught wrong footed by its posture of ignoring the realities of the situation and its failure to seek some accomodation with the new leader nations of the world. And even though it is highly unlikely, if we elect a black man with a Muslim middle name as our leader, I fear it wil only encourage the leaders of the current Muslim States like Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Malaysia, Syria, Saudi Arabia and those that will be emerging in Asia and Africa to stand up even harder to our policies. I think Obama would make a good President but I beleive those who think he would be advantageous to our position in dealing with the Islamic Republics are sorely mistaken. He would be a red flag before a bull.

    • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/29/2007 12:40:22 AM

      There is no Islam, only Sunni or Shiite, and they hate each other. There is no people of the book, only murderers waving the violence ridden Koran, words of it's violence ridden founder.

  • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/28/2007 2:07:03 AM

    Benazir Bhutto in the past has waxed nostalgic of the Pakistan of the past, including the early 1970s, when her father was leader. These were horrifying years for what was then East Pakistan. There was no "awesome, almost miraculous power of a people to change policy" as she said in one edtorial to the Washington Post. When the East Pakistani (Bengali) political party won national elections, West Pakistan massacred one to three million Bengalis, and about ten million Bengalis fled into India. This nightmare began with an assault upon the students and professors at Dhaka University. Bhutto has recently also said that the Pakistani army of the mid 1960s was a "professional" army, yet it is this army that murdered millions and raped and tortured, at times using Nazi names for its field actions, a fact reported by Jack Anderson. It is this murderous army that returned to Pakistan, corrupting its body politic further. Pakistan died in the early 1970s under the weight of mass murder of Bengali Muslims. Mrs. Bhutto has admiration for her father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who refused to accept the results of the election, which he lost, and threatened to break the legs of anyone in his political party who accepted the results. Her father supported the military actions through 1971. He was complicit in the mass murders. Pakistan never tried its mass murderers. Mass murder is never to be forgotten. Those who forget do not deserve to be leaders, though they may somehow float to the top [and though some of the waters they floated through are called ???Harvard.???]. Lest we forget, her government assisted and financed and recognized the Taliban government, which only one other nation did. She led a corrupt government. In what phantasy was she a hope, or a light for democracy, when she has celebrated the murderous history of that failed state?

    • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 12/28/2007 10:40:10 PM

      SKVAM, how do you know the US wasn't behind this dreadful massacre of Bengalis in the 1970s? We were involved in Chile, for example, making sure their first DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED LEADER was ousted and assassinated. It wouldn't surprise me if our own CIA (or some other rogue organization under US and other auspices) arranged to have this massacre bloody up Bhutto's hands back then, spurring Zia to feel justified in deposing and hanging him. All under our guidance and with our full (covert) support. We are the Axis of Evil, truly. I hate to think that about my own country, but I'm increasingly dismayed by the corruption, ignorance, and exploitation of the Christian right by the cynical Republic leadership we've got in power. I don't hold that any Democrat would be that much better either. It's quite depressing. Not even the USA is a true Democracy - we're beginning to look like a benign dictatorship run by the ones with the most money and the most to gain by war, destruction and corruption. Or maybe we were always like that; I just grew up.

      • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/29/2007 12:33:16 AM

        You ask how do I know the US wasn't behind it. You have to ask because you are fundamentally an unread person satisfied to rant. I know the US was a supporter of it because of what Jack Anderson of the Washington Post wrote and what Robert Payne the historian wrote in his book "Massacre." And there you go again, comparing the Republicans (and I am NOT a Republican) to the lowest of these murdering lowlifes that have dominated Pakistani politics. Get over yourself and read. I know better than you what role the US played, but no American held the hands of the hundreds of thousands of West Pakistani troops as they burned dormitories at Dacca University and machinegunned the students and faculty as they attempted to escape. Your ignorance is so incredible! Ranting does not make for truth. Rant less, read more; being ignorant in this information age is what idiots do.

        • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/29/2007 12:37:26 AM

          By the way, my informationally challenged hormonally charged friend, putting words in ALL CAPS does not make it the truth. Lincoln used to tell a story about a lawyer who ranted, and his opposing lawyer sat and listened to the rant without a word for quite some time. When the first lawyer was done, the opposing lawyer got up, rolled up his sleeves and loosened his collar like the first lawyer and ranted for the same amount of time, but without saying one word. When done, he rolled his sleeves back down, buttoned his collar and tightened his tie and said, "Now that I have responded to my opponent, let me get down to the facts of this case." Emote less, read more.

  • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/28/2007 2:11:21 AM

    Benazir Bhutto waxed nostalgic for the early 1970's in a November 14th editorial to the Washington Post. These were horrifying years for what was then East Pakistan. There was no "awesome, almost miraculous power of a people to change policy." When the East Pakistani (Bengali) political party won national elections, West Pakistan massacred one to three million Bengalis, and about ten million Bengalis fled into India. This nightmare began with an assault upon the students and professors at Dhaka University. Bhutto has recently also said that the Pakistani army of the mid 1960s was a "professional" army, yet it is this army that murdered millions and raped and tortured, at times using Nazi names for its field actions, a fact reported by Jack Anderson. It is this murderous army that returned to Pakistan, corrupting its body politic further. Pakistan died in the early 1970s under the weight of mass murder of Bengali Muslims. Mrs. Bhutto has admiration for her father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who refused to accept the results of the election, which he lost, and threatened to break the legs of anyone in his political party who accepted the results. Her father supported the military actions through 1971. He was complicit in the mass murders. That sorry mass murder by Muslim West Pakistan against Muslim East Pakistan was well documented by Jack Anderson, the columnist, by Robert Payne, the historian, and by a number of personal testimonies of Bengalis. Pakistan never tried its mass murderers. Mass murder is never to be forgotten. Those who forget do not deserve to be leaders, though they may somehow float to the top [and though some of the waters they floated through are called ???Harvard.???]. Corrupt, inefficient, blind to mass murder, a supporter of the Taliban and somone who recognized the Taliban government, only one of two nations in the world to do so, a supporter of terrorism against India, why mourn?

    • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 12/28/2007 10:22:12 PM

      Well, SKVAM, you obviously swallow the US policy line (Bush Administration and Bush Sr., plus Nixon, and Reagan of course) -- actually, wasn't the US involved in making sure Zia executed Bhutto Sr. and aren't we, the USA, perpetrators of some of the grossest policy manipulations in the history of Human Rights ourselves? Let's not dismiss the complexity that you are so obviously well read about, by dissing Bhutto Sr., who as I understand was Pakistan's FIRST ELECTED (DEMOCRATICALLY) LEADER EVER. We supported Zia, his opponent, and therefore looked away when Zia had Bhutto Sr.hung. I itoo have my personal informants, and I believe them as they're not influenced by a totally corrupt, dicatorial regime that our own Administration represents.

      • Posted By: SKVAM @ 12/29/2007 12:26:35 AM

        You are an incredibly emotional person. I feel as if I am dealing with what in the old days was called hysteria. I strongly suggest, if you have the guts, to go to your Switzerland, your Pakistan, and see what it is really like. And, little notroubleatall, two wrongs don't make a right. Bhutto was not elected, he lost the election to Rahman of the Awami League, of Bangladesh. Bhutto, the cowardly criminal, delayed negotiations so that the Pakistani army had time to sail around India and get to Bengal, then the coward left and the Pakistani army proceeded to butcher Bengalis, beginning with mass murder of intellectuals, students and professors, and the intelligentsia of Bengal. You are utterly ignorant. These United States of America are paradise compared to that hell-hole, that failed state where Sunni and Shiites blow each other up like there's no tomorrow. But, by all means, my little emotional one, go to Pakistan and become an aid worker there, see how long you live.

    • Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 12/28/2007 10:29:55 PM

      Oh, and by the way, one could easily argue that the US Aministration is the perpetrator of many mass murders, directly and indirectly, during our 200+ year history. Think back to the 1970s, sinc e you want to dredge that decade up: We (CIA) helped Pinochet oust Chile's first DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED LEADER, and made sure he was assassinated too. That was under Nixon and Kissinger, the great duo in so many other respects. Why do you think Ms. Bhutto has such an incredible following in Pakistan? Because of her father, her family - they represent Pakistan's ONLY DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED LEADERSHIP, whether or not you "approve" of that. Our policies are very often totally misguided (I won't even go on about Iraq!!!) and your comments seem to wipe the truth totally from consideration -- perhaps much like the Bush Administration is so apt to do? Why? Why would you or anyone in the US be against a DEMOCRATICA:LLY ELECTED LEADER in any other country besides those in the Western Hemisphere? Why don't you write an essay on the topic, I'd most certainly get a kick out of hearing more drivel.

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