Comeback Kid, Take Two?

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: danielgouldman @ 01/04/2008 9:53:04 PM

    I'm almost unsettled by the comments from democrastic. First - check your spelling. Second - I don't think we can consider any candidate perfect for we will most definitely feel left wanting at some point. That being said - one of my biggest concerns with Hillary is not that she's a bad person or that she wants some of the same things that I want. I think she, Edwards and Obama all want very similiar things TODAY anyway. The problem is - when you elect someone...you want to make sure you know what the stand for. You want to know that when you vote for them - they have the integrity needed to stand on what they believe in even when it is unpopular. I think Edwards and Obama have that. Clinton lacks it without question. At least when Edwards attacks - its come from him or his wife directly. Same with Obama. Clinton isn't playing to win "at all costs". I play to win too, but you know...if you're playing a game and the guy across the table has to go use the restroom - I don't change his cards out or get new ones so that I can win when he gets back. I wouldn't cheat, lie or steal to win. I want to win with integrity BECAUSE that's really the only way that we're going to know what kind of character a person has when they're actually in office. Having been the wife of a president does not qualify her to be president. Her vote in Iraq and her poor mismanagement (and unwillingness to parter with Republicans) are examples of the kinds of leadership (or lack thereof) we will see from her if she were in office. I want to vote for someone who will not "Bring the Heat" but work across the aisle ...hopefully, helping to provide credibility and trust back to Washington. I am ABSOLUTELY turned off by her negative campaigning - ABSOLUTELY. At one point - I thought...well - maybe...just maybe. But birds do show their true colors and I think we need to be extremely cognizant of a few facts here. If Obama won 35% of the woman vote in a democratic caucus (versus 30% for Clinton) how is she really going to win the majority of the women in the Republican campaign. There are alot of Elizabeth Hasselbecks out there. That and the fact that she really, really is unliked by so many people. I want someone who is going to represent ALL Americans and not belittle my oh so stubborn Republican friends. I love to debate with them but don't we have to actually affect change? Think about it.

    • Posted By: Ex.Cop. @ 01/05/2008 10:12:42 AM

      Daniel: Great comment, I only hope the Hillary (will drink the cool aid) staff will read it.

    • Posted By: thawkins @ 01/04/2008 10:01:28 PM

      Well said, Daniel. Well said.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 01/05/2008 6:24:57 AM

    Bill Clinton needs to change his role too. He needs to make Hillary look like the boss. By repeating over and over what Hillary says. By continually indoctrinating the crowds with Hillary's "great ideas". In Iowa he looked like the candidate and he kept giving his own opinion instead of backing hers. This will give the electorate confidence in her, it also keeps the focus on her.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 01/05/2008 6:23:35 AM

    Bill Clinton needs to change his role too. He needs to make Hillary look like the boss. By repeating over and over what Hillary says. By continually indoctrinating the crowds with Hillary's "great ideas". In Iowa he looked like the candidate and he kept giving his own opinion instead of backing hers. This will give the electorate confidence in her, it also keeps the focus on her.

  • Posted By: eddiewhere @ 01/05/2008 6:08:23 AM

    Edwards just takes too many votes away from Hillary. Obama won by one per cent in Iowa among democrats. This is a very significant statistic because OBAMA has a new base which Hillary and Edwards are strangers too. Their experience actually works against them, especially their voting record. New Hampshire is the land of independents and will go OBAMA's way. Hillary needs to start preparing for New York and California. If she loses either one she has no chance. Even the stars of today are with the OBAMA movement. She has lost the women vote, so she needs to focus on the minority vote ie. immigration and a plan for the poor. Everyone knows she is strong on Health Care, so she should emphasize other NEW ISSUES. AN issue that would inspire the middle class.. A middle class plan that promises a bright future. BE SpECIFIC. No one wants to here what she has done they want to hear what she is going to do. Going negative has distracted her from her.. The war on Iraq really hurts Hillary. She needs to be specific on that issue. What will she do and why can she do it faster than any other candidate.These are the types of issues OBAma has already been talking about however there is a lot of room for expansion and specifics on these issues. Hillary needs to look presedential. She needs to hold fewer events with larger crowds. That's how waves start. A small wave can turn into a big wave in a hurry.

  • Posted By: Vail Beach @ 01/05/2008 6:04:32 AM

    Re: Hillary: There simply is no there there. Her qualification for office was that her machine would inevitably secure her the nomination. Without that, she's literally got nothing. It's either going to be Obama or a late entry by someone not currently in the race, such as Al Gore.

  • Posted By: RED_WHITE_BLUE @ 01/04/2008 8:19:42 PM

    GOOD ARTICLE - SOBERING IS THE WORD - EXPERIENCE IS THE WORD - CHANGE DOESN'T COME FROM BEING HIP and NEW AND SO NEW THERE IS NO WORLD OR NATIONAL EXPERIENCE BEHIND THE HIPSTER - ALSO, LET'S NOT CONFUSE TGHE PAST WITH THE CLINTONS = THE PAST IS BUSH AND MORE BUSH ~!~ THANKS - SOBER AND YOUNG AND VITAL IN WASHINGTON AND FOR HILLARY

    • Posted By: KESALMON509 @ 01/05/2008 1:32:50 AM

      Enter Your Comment
      just say NO to clinton drugs

      • Posted By: sparky716 @ 01/05/2008 5:49:27 AM

        bush was a drunk and coke head....did you say no to him...and seems like obama said he used coke through out his senior year in high school....are you going to say no to him?

  • Posted By: crez @ 01/05/2008 2:07:18 AM

    She lost 71% of the democratic vote? Hmm, why didn't you say that Obama lost 61% of that Edwards lost 70%?

    • Posted By: danielgouldman @ 01/05/2008 3:22:45 AM

      You know - its a fair question...and I thought about it afterwards. My best response to that is that my point was in one part "loaded" and not entirely objective in fairness. BUT - what I would say is this....she has always been the presumptive front-runner no matter what has been said recently by her campaign. Yes the writing has been on the wall for the past 3 weeks or so but they only started to downplay any possible success so as not to lose face. You know - something I've seen over the past 4 hours has really concerned me. I have read and watched from 4 or 5 different sources via online and t.v. (I try to get my information from multiple sources before I make up my own opinion)...and I have heard what appears to be a "talking point" from Clinton's staffers, lead strategist, and Clinton herself...so its clearly intentional and orchestrated. Here is what they are saying essentially and I'm paraprhasing "Iowans don't have a good track record of picking the nominee" AND "Iowa is such a small state that its more like losing a medium sized city". Now - I guess what bothers me about this is...does that sound like the words of a person who is genuinely appreciative of the people who DID support her....who respects that so far that part of America has spoken? I'm not looking for reasons to dislike Clinton - I'm really not. Whatever happened to losing gracefully? Sour Grapes - Bad Form. I like Barack - not because she the opponent of Hillary - but because he's true to himself and has a wonderful sense of what is needed to put America back on track. I could go on and on. Another thing - there are all these rumors and comments from many people that may or may not be true but it certainly comes up frequently that if you go against the Clinton's (And I like Bill by the way) that they're done with you. That's just wrong. Its a power play designed to intimidate. Well - I don't like bullies. So - I guess we'll see how much she attacks Barack through underhanded means in comparison to actually talking about substantive differentiations between her and other candidates as well as promorting her message. I am very turned off by her negative campaign.

  • Posted By: herbgirlID @ 01/04/2008 3:13:51 PM

    Oh PUHLEEEZE! 3 months ago she was inevitable and now she's the scrappy underdog? The comeback kid??? First of all, that dried out old prune is NOT a kid. And hasn't her campaign already spun her in every direction possible because nothing is working? She was the candidate of experience until they realized what people want is change....Now she's Ready for Change??? No thanks, I'll stick with Obama, a candidate who means what he says and who has said the same thing since day one.

    • Posted By: kimberlyp @ 01/04/2008 6:53:12 PM

      Enter Your Commentit sounds as if you are not for something but against Hillary, why is that? What specific policy do you disagree with and why? What are the priorities you have for the country and how can they be accomplished? How would your candidate turn hope into reality? What is their timeline? How will they execute their plan? What will it cost and how will they pay for it?
      If a candidate can???t or does not convey this information in a practical matter they are influencing you by your emotions.

      • Posted By: Johnsonium @ 01/04/2008 7:15:46 PM

        She voted for the war and refuses to take responsibility for her giant mistake. There's one. She also supported the flag burning amendment. There's two. She also supported the recent Iran amendment to further rattle sabers in that showdown. Never mind, that we now know that Iran wasn't developing nukes. There's three.

        She's on the wrong side of many many issues.

        • Posted By: kimberlyp @ 01/04/2008 8:33:14 PM

          At the time based upn intelligence reports almost everyone did and it was the right move given the information she wasgiven. That the information was wrong and misleading is not her fault. As wrong to me as burning the flag seems it is a right under our constitution. Iran is still a big concern and I do not fault her for her position.

          • Posted By: Steve D @ 01/05/2008 2:21:03 AM

            She didnt read the report. She made up her mind on politics, not facts.

  • Posted By: crez @ 01/05/2008 2:08:06 AM

    Daniel, She lost 71% of the democratic vote? Hmm, why didn't you say that Obama lost 61% of that Edwards lost 70%?

  • Posted By: awomanforpresident @ 01/04/2008 10:39:07 PM

    This type of conversation wasn't discussed when Bush Jr. was the son of Bush Sr. It was to his advantage. Hillary Clinton is an amazingly bright, intelligent woman who has an amazing political career. Rode on her husband's coattails - reallly - do you think the state of New York would elect someone with her skill, do you think other Senators would praise her with her skills and brilliance - do you think she could run for President if it weren't for her skill and brilliance! President Bush Jr. had far less skills and experience and he was elected President. It looks like this is more about the fact that she is a woman who could be President of the United States.

    • Posted By: danielgouldman @ 01/05/2008 1:15:02 AM

      It has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman. That's ridiculous. She started to pull that card out but you didn''t hear Barack complaining when the pollsters said he wasn't going to win...you didn't hear him say "its because I'm black". We can't allow ourselves to think like that - its victim thinking. When we do - we're not focusing on the actual root cause. There are other reasons that she lost 71% of the democratic vote in Iowa. Are women not voting for her because she's a woman too? Think about it.

    • Posted By: thawkins @ 01/04/2008 10:49:48 PM

      Amazing political career -- what elected office did she hold prior to that of NY Senator? And how did she get THAT office -- she didn't even live in NY until just before the election. It was clearly because her husband had an amazing political careeer. There are many examples of women who have attained to high office on their own merits -- but Hillary Clinton is not one of them, intelligent and capable though she well may be. As to your remark about George W. Bush being elected based on who his father was, well, how did that turn out in your opinion? I'm not saying its totally unprecedented, just that it's not indicative of performance.

  • Posted By: wyl5326 @ 01/05/2008 1:10:52 AM

    Hill's campaign is desperately seeking surrogates to attack Barack
    personally and do their dirty tricks for them and avoid getting the blame.
    Their attempt to use Bob Novak to do it for them was prematurely exposed and
    they got a backlash in Iowa. This has been the tactics of the Clintons when
    they are in trouble. Unfortunately the media are no longer willing to do it for
    them and so they are complaining that Barack have not been vetted, their code
    word asking for help from the media. Hill is thus trying to contrast herself
    from Barack that she is tough to face the GOPs attack. Barack is not into that
    kind of politics and refusing to play with it requires another kind of
    toughness that the Clintons can't transcend or even fathom ! Thus they are so
    frustrated and foresee the derailing of her coronation. Even when Barack don't
    have the experience to deal with the GOPs, the Clintons can always be expected
    to volunteer their help, otherwise it will only expose them as suffering from
    sour grapes. The intensity of their coming attack ads will reflect how
    desperate they are for the NH firewall to save her. Unfortunately, even Bill
    can't do anything that will prevent the breach to that firewall in the face of
    the coming tsunami that the anti-Hill votes will generate. Until they learn to
    admit the enormous baggage she has, no amount of counter measures they put will
    work !

  • Posted By: ceojuliej @ 01/04/2008 11:45:05 PM

    I'm fighting mad. Come ON Women! We only got the right to own property 40 years ago and we only got the right to vote 75 years ago... Women are being voted as the leaders in other countries in the world. The US is going backwards. COME on. Don't put on the berkas. Stand OUT AND LEAD OUT LOUD. If Hillary isn't elected, it will set back women another 16 years! Let go!

    • Posted By: thawkins @ 01/05/2008 12:28:32 AM

      In your politics everything must be zero sum -- a win by an African-American man must necessarily be a loss for American women. Give me a break. Deciding for or against a candidate because of gender or race is prejudice and that bodes well for no one's rights nor for political concensus. Engaging tokenism as a basis for electing a woman is an insult to women everywhere.

  • Posted By: ObamaMama @ 01/05/2008 12:13:53 AM

    America is imploding internally and dying internationally. Its soul has been sold to benefit and protect corporate companies and profits for too many years, decades, neglecting the American citizens and seniors whose ancestors once made this country great. The burden, waste and war profits of the Iraq debacle are unconscionable. The desecration of this country's environment is likewise unconscionable and its blatant indifference to serious energy development and eco-protective measures, again, benefitting corporate America by the very leniency in the timetables of future requirements. Senator Obama addresses concerns of our seniors, of middle age USA, and our youth, the citizens who work for corporate America, but benefit least from it!!! Intelligent voting doesn't vote by sex, religious or party bloc, nor for "electability" claims or odds, nor how one's family has always voted. Neither being in the shadow of a president, wife or son of, qualifies one for holding executive leadership, as we are all too painfully aware. I personally support a candidate, Senator Barack Obama, who is a visionary with the intelligence, skill and charisma to unite, change, uplift and produce significant cooperation within the country itself, its legislative bodies, and the greater global community. Dialogue and diplomacy, initiatives, not war, not saber rattling, are needed to encourage cooperation by a world leader among world leaders. President Obama will speak to that kind of vision!!!

  • Posted By: GreatDane @ 01/05/2008 12:08:30 AM

    ceojuliej~~where on earth do you live? "We only got the right to own property 40 years ago"????????? You must be one who thinks I as a woman should vote for hillary just because she's a woman. Using that logic, you apparently can't count on any men voting for him, because they will all vote for men? Can Obama give a speech that urges the men, "Vote for me! Because I'm a man!" You represent a weirdness in the current silliness in women's thinking (or lack of) that is masquerading as some kind of sophisticated advance. Goofy. Just plain goofy. Anyway, sorry for wherever you live that you only got the right to own property 40 years ago.

  • Posted By: PatrynXX @ 01/04/2008 10:55:16 PM

    this is a really weird conversation... so the women who showed up in droves at my caucus for Obama weren't women right? No I'd say Hillary lost because she's become way too arrogant and way too Bush like for most voters. But it sure was fun seeing a ton of whites root for a black candidate. The rights of women have been around alot longer than the right of blacks. Female or male.

  • Posted By: KESALMON509 @ 01/04/2008 10:52:52 PM

    DOES ANYONE BELIEVE HILLARY CAN NOT ONLY WIN THE NOMINATION, BUT ALSO WIN THE WHITE HOUSE. IF YOU DO , STOP DRINKING THE COOL AIDE !! IOWA SAYS NOT ONLY HERE , BUT HOPEFULLY THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WILL REJECT HER!!!!!

  • Posted By: rex range @ 01/04/2008 10:48:16 PM

    Well...WHO CARES. It is not a journalist's job to dutifully report to us "these are the campaign's talking points" or, worse, to once again carry water for the hopelessly corrupt by (incredibly) trotting out the same nasty slings and arrows the Clintons have been using against anyone who stood in their way for decades. It is to provide honest, balanced analysis and poke holes in the "story"--in this case a "story" with holes that would comfortably swallow [sorry for bringing up another part of the Clinton legacy] a Mack truck. This reporter and the legions of other Hill Shills out there in MediaLand are once again running aground on "We, the People," who are probably (and thankfully) going to elect as our next president either the most unifying, charismatic leader in either party who just happens to be black, the greatest war hero since Eisenhower to occupy the Oval Office or the most religious-yet-liberal Republican who has ever run for the office. Buckle up, kids, it's going to be an exhilirating ride and we'll respect ourselves when it's over.

  • Posted By: Duck Soup @ 01/04/2008 10:40:23 PM

    We want change. We want change. We want change. No more Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton spin cycle. Obama has exercised superior, unique judgment among all the frontrunners in not supporting our frolic and detour in Iraq from the start. He alone can unify our country. United we stand. Divided we fall. No unity, no change.

    More on why Obama is the only candidate who can unify America to achieve real change: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/2/22840/86271/686/429523

  • Posted By: debraoscar @ 01/04/2008 9:46:08 PM

    you go girl give this country what it needs a woman to take charge and get results

    • Posted By: thawkins @ 01/04/2008 9:59:27 PM

      Yeah -- a women who rode her husband's coattails to power. Susan Anthony would be pround.

  • Posted By: democrastic @ 01/04/2008 9:38:22 PM

    In response Sen Clinton at least made the effort to change health care and she has learned from her first attempt also she has experience abroad visiting ohter contries and w orld leaders this does not make her secretary of state but at least she has been involved i nternationally and has been around th president when international materrs have been acted on Its not vast experiece but nevetheless its still experience

    • Posted By: thawkins @ 01/04/2008 9:57:56 PM

      Yes, but it's not very compelling experience now is it? After all, most first ladies could make a similar claim -- they have traveled and all in recent history have attempted to push forward a favorite agenda (albeit in Hillary's case the agenda of reforming healthcare was considerably more ambitious than most but for all its grand scale demonstrated little more than political ineptness). Moreover, of all the first ladies only Hillary has had the AUDACITY OF HYPE to run for president, and to run as the more experienced candidate at that! Come on, everybody knows her election to the Senate from New York and her chief claim to experience now is that she was Bill Clinton's wife. Hillary's lack of specificity or flip-flopping on major issues (even in the span of a single TV debate) shows that whatever her experience she hasn't developed any talent for leadership nor the moral stature to lead. Perhaps Obama could consult her as a healthcare wonk.

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse