I don't see any Mormons blowing themselves up for 'God'. Many of Reagan's advisers were Mormon. The one candidate whose religion is a true threat to the U.S.(Islam) is getting a pass, while Romney is torn apart because of his.
In Saturday night's GOP presidential debate, everyone was gunning for the former Massachusetts governor.
I don't see any Mormons blowing themselves up for 'God'. Many of Reagan's advisers were Mormon. The one candidate whose religion is a true threat to the U.S.(Islam) is getting a pass, while Romney is torn apart because of his.
Are you speaking of Obama as a Muslim? I would ask that you check your facts because he is not a Muslim. I find it unfortunate that one would say something like this about one of our Presidential candidates knowning the damage it may cause. Regardless of the candidate's party, one of these individuals will be our next President.
"Romney is torn apart" because of the negative nature of the campaign he is leading against other Republican candidates. They too are guilty of negative actions and campaigns, but the focus Romney has made on negative ads overshadows his positive message.
I find that the issue of Romney's Mormonism is being exacerbated by the LDS faithful more so than others outside of the organization in this discussion. This article did not have a religious tone or sentiment, so why is his faith brought out by the LDS in this discussion? Yes, there are the occassional cracks from people on the religious right, but overall his religion is being discussed by fellow LDS. Why does one feel that the faith and church of the LDS needs to be so vehemently defended? Why are the faiths and religions of the other candidates not needing such explosive defense from fellow members of their collective churches? Why are the LDS faithful so quick to attack and defend their truth?
Where there is self doubt, there is much self recrimination.
Yeah Ken, it's all about their self-doubt. Their defensiveness has absolutely NOTHING to do with the zealous attack you and others have waged on this site and in the media from the very beginning. The fact is, Mormonism isn't like other Christian faiths, and has been the whipping post of Evangelicals since its founding. No other candidate's faith is controvertial in the least, yet articles like this one about the actual debate issues quickly degenerate into what we have seen here. Most Mormons hold their beliefs very near and dear to their hearts, and find immense joy and peace in them. Is is really surprising that they sometimes bristle when they AND their beliefs get publicly dragged through the mud time and again? If you can't understand that basic reaction, you really may be as thick as your posts have suggested.
Mr. Choonzer, The fact that most generic mormons no very little about the inner working of 'the church', it's core beliefs, clandestined doctrines and secret combinations is what I find most appalling.
Know is spelled "Know" not "no"...
'Thank You, you are absolutely correct." It is 'know' and not 'no.'
'thank you' you are absolutelt correct, it is 'know 'and not 'no.'
Yes, you're obviously appalled, judging by how much time you've spent spewing venom about Mormons on a supposedly political site. I must tell you, however, that my rather extensive experience with Mormons has led me to believe that regardless of their doctrines, they try very hard to be good neighbors, employees, community members, and citizens. Agreeing with their doctrines is a completely personal choice. But disagreement is no cause for trashing them. That's about as silly as me trashing all eaters of Chinese food because I'm personally repulsed by egg foo yung.
Incidentally, I've known several Mormons with very extensive knowledge of both the Bible and their own church, and I'd wager there are plenty more of them out there. You suggest, rather naively, that you know more about Mormonism than most Mormons do. That's easy to say, but frankly ridiculous. I'm confident there are plenty of them that are better educated than yourself, both in Mormonism and in general. But since you're obviously so biased on the subject, I expect you'll say they're all brainwashed or something.
Love your unsubstantiated, bigoted remarks. Needed a laugh today.
Couldn't agree more, Ken. The postings that came after I proposed my questions, answered all of them. This is threatening to them because they know the TRUTH about their church. While their faith is strong, they know that the foundation of their church is without merit and based on fraudulent actions by a deceitful person in the 19th century. This article was about politics, but was made about a cult belief and fought under the directive of their corporate command through "church leaders." A concerted effort has been made since 1999 to attack all individuals on the internet to dispell the truth about their cult. If you want references, respond and all provide the video of your "leaders." But, you've seen it before and know what I'm speaking about here. Mormons, remove yourselves from this political forum, and let the man known as Mitt Romney run a clean campaign. He will succeed without your vile and vicious attacks against people on a chat room site if he truly represents the U.S.A. If you want to talk about politics, please, bring on the discussion. Your desire to defend your beliefs has gotten old. If you weren't so unsure of your beliefs, why try to defend them on a political discussion board. Move on to a positive site. I am happy to know that people like Mr. Hoyt and myself know your true intentions behind the attacks you have made.
Leave to Beaver (the mormon Beavers, to be sure), to rush to a defense of their religion: after all, it is their religion, in the balance, and not just the career of one, quirky, flip-flopping man, who "chose" (as a matter of "choice") the "religion of [his] fathers".
And, after all is said and done, "That IS the scary part of it all!"
To that ill-advised fellow who so 'valiently' talks about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness": just go quietly back, tonight, and re-read your Article of Faith, number 12" --
"We believe in being [loyal] subjects of [English] kings; [potentates]; rulers; and magistrates: in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the [King's] law."
In short, if the American Colonies had been filled with Mormons, back during the American War of Independence, they would have been urged to subject themselves to King George--to honor, obey, and sustain his, George's law! Hence, after the war--after having been "good loyalists", they most-certainly would have feared for their lives (fearing the natural retribution that never came, for those "others" who maintained loyalty to the king's law, throughout the war) and fled to Canada, as the Loyalists did!
P.S: Heber Grant, a Mormon "President" (whose "law" mormons "sustained", also) urged German mormons to stay loyal to Hitler...in obeying that Article of Faith #12...during the Second World War. And, that is only ONE such example of a Mormon Hierarchy absorbed with itself and with loyalty to leaders...including Hitler, for the Germans (and loyalty to themselves, also, as "mormon heads").
My suggestion: just keep reading that #12 Article over and over and over (as I have written it), until you recover from "that" part of your silly brainwashed notion that mormons would have had the courage to do other than "Follow the Brethren" (and King George, also), if they had existed, in the 1700s.
The Mormon Maxim should be aptly considered to be this:
Loyalty above independent courage
Loyalty above honor
Loyalty above truth
Follow the Brethren (repeated three times,
in rapid succession: and which is an embodiment
of the three statements written just above).
The early followers of Christ were considered brainwashed and crazy. As Latter-day Saints we seek the Lord Jesus Christ through his chosen servants - the prophet, apostles, and our local leaders. We have great joy in "following the brethren" and my family has benefited greatly from doing so. We are a very happy and blessed people and no one can take that from us. Your thoughts on the 12th Article of Faith are greatly flawed as you are focused on the literal interpretation of the article and not the spirit in which it was intended. No even Christ advocated opposing the Roman law, and because our people do not overtly break the law through civil disobedience we have been able to perform miralces in such places as East Germany long before the wall came down. Until you earnest seek to understand the religion of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, live its precepts fully, and take into your heart the message of the restored gospel, you really can't understand it, nor do you have a basis to criticize it. Even with your disrespect for our religion, I forgive you, love you as a sibling in Christ, and respect your right to trash us. I urge you to yeild to the enticings of the Holy Ghost and truly understand. In Christ Always, your friend
Excellent rebutal of flawed reasoning
Hear! Hear! Well done and well said.
It is heartening to see so many comments in support of Mitt Romney in this comment section. I thought I was the only one who saw and was upset by the shameful behavior in last night???s debate. I am not Mormon, and a candidate???s religion has very little impact on my decision of who to vote for. I think it is a good to have a person of any good faith as a leader. I am hoping that Mitt Romney is the Republican nominee for President. He is extremely bright, accomplished, principled and energetic. When I hear his ideas and learn about his life, I am inspired ??? that is something I wish for America ??? to be inspired by a President again. I thought he excelled in the debate last night, despite the petty attacks of the others. (I too lost respect for several candidates.) I am VERY tired of hearing about how his personal wealth is financing his campaign. Since when did being successful and rich in America become such a bad thing? And, why are only some wealthy people chastised for it? The American Dream is to be successful in life! Furthermore, the fact that Romney is financing his campaign with his own money, rather than money from special interest groups or other sources indicates to me that he is independent-minded and honest. He is also honest enough to tell the public that he has the intellectual capacity to consider past decisions and evolve his thinking. Personally, I don???t want a rigid, dogmatic individual leading our nation during these increasingly complex and changing times. It is sad how these truly stellar aspects of his campaign are twisted. Good Luck Mitt Romney. I hope many more people start seeing clearly.
Great Post!!! finally some one with substance
I agree wholeheartedly! You made some great points - Thank you!
learn more about Romney's beliefs and his religion's
go to the web address below
http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/
The Bible contradicts the Mormon reliance on multiple contradictory revelations. While the Mormon scriptures contradict each other and the Bible, the Bible never contradicts itself and the God of the Bible never contradicts Himself. Hebrews 1:1-3 tells us where our knowledge of God comes from:
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
Any message that purports to be from God must agree with the message already brought by Jesus Christ in fulfillment of the Old Testament (Luke 24:27). Eternal life comes from the works and gifts of Jesus Christ, not from Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or any other false Mormon prophet (John 20:31). Proverbs 30:5,6 warns those who try to add to God's Word, saying, "Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words lest He reprove you, and you be proved a liar."
First, it appears you haven't read the bible closely... second using bigotry to sway public opinion is repulsive. Third let's talk about the real issues of the campaign.
thank you for suggesting that i waste 20 minutes of my life going to that useless web site. If i wanted to hear the same old stuff about mormons, i would search it on the internet. i am interested in politics, not religion. get with your bible friends and talk about how bad the mormons suck on your own time. please don't waste mine.
read act chapter 1 verses 1-5 where it talks about jesus being on earth for 40 days before going up to the right hand of god. Please get out o f the church of the devil and quit bashing mormons.
Would you consider going to a Catholic priest to learn about Buddhism? Of course not! A better source of information about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would be a member or missionary of that church. If you had a better understanding of what we consider the truth, you would quickly see that your argument doesn't hold up. You might also consider www.mormon.org
The Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible at all. And, if you are quoting the bible about not adding words, then John himself broke his own writing. For the Book of Revelations was written before the other book by John. It was put in that order to be a chronological order of the events of history, but not the order in which they were written.
Romney for president?--OMG--Our Country would be in such bad shape. We would all end up giving 20% of our income to the Mormon Church
Right, just as he forced all in Mass. to do when he was Governor or all of his employees at Bain Cap to do. Come on, you can do better than that can't you? If the Mormon church was truly going to lead the nation through Romney, wouldn't that have occurred also during his time as Governor? Try again!
U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D) is a Mormon where is the bill for the taxes to be given to the Mormons... oh wait there is none. Fearmongering, and bigotry.
Nixion was a Quaker... you probably would have believed 'he would outlaw all greatings except "hello, friend'"
Kennedy was Catholic... I don't recall him putting in a special phone line to the pope... but I am sure you would have believed it if I said he did...
Yes, yes. I realize I posted roughly the same thing twice. Pardon the redundancy as I received an error message and didn't think the post went through. Oh, and you can disregard yet the third post above - my impatience in seeing the posts got the best of me!!!
Nice try - just like the church did to the people of Mass when Romney was Governor. Try harder!
WHO IS NICK ROMMNEY?
your guess is as good as mine
Little Mittsy Romney is all but done. Keep on hanging onto your false hopes and keep on talking all ur bs mormons, your only fooling yourselves.
Sir, lets think about this from a non ignortant point of view, If I were anyone in this election, I would hope to be Romney, Romney has 2 second place wins and 1 first place win, better than both McCain, Guiliani, and Huckabee. Saying Mitt is done is like saying Dennis Kucinich will will the presedency- you really should not be so negative, by being positive it will make your life better. Have a great day!
HUCKABEE GAVE A TREMENDOUS ANSWER ON HEALTH CARE. HE INICATED THAT WE SHOULD INVEST IN OURSELVES IN ORDER TO AVOID HEALTH PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE THAT WOULD SURELY LEAVE US BROKE UNDER THIS SYSTEM. THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE A STRANGLE HOLD ON THE REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT.
HUCKABEE WANTS TO CHANGE HEALTH CARE. THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT. IT MEANS LESS MONEY FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHICH DOMINATE WALL STREET AND FUND THE REPUBLICAN ESTABLISMENT
DO YOU HEAR INSURANCE COMPANIES COMPLAINING. THEY ONLY START COMPLAINING WHEN THEIR PROFITS GO DOWN THAT IS WHY THEY ATTACK ANY CHANGE EVEN IF IT'S FROM THEIR OWN PARTY.
HUCKABEE WANTS TO CHANGE HEALTH CARE. THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT. IT MEANS LESS MONEY FOR THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHICH DOMINATE WALL STREET AND FUND THE REPUBLICAN ESTABLISMENT
Hey eddiewhere-I am a licensed Insurance agent. The fastest growing products rely on investing in ourselves-the Health Savings Accts. They are transforming the industry. As for the insurance companies they are saving the Medicare system with the Medicare Advantage products(part C). Pres. Bush has been instrumental in this happening and we are seeing results. To go toward nationalized insurance would be a HUGE step backwards.
Hang on, HolyRoller, you just said you're an insurance agent, but you have the balls to say that Mormonism was founded by "the Father of all Lies" -- and you sell insurance? I guess you really know the subject of LIES!
Patrick08 you are funny!
Huckabee's comment on healthcare was fanciful at best....he claimed we should adopt preventive health care methods to fix people before they get ill. Of course that SOUNDS NICE...but I don't see how any government policy will EVER be able to do that.
INCONVENIENT TRUTH: Americans will have to go to the hospital and we all need affordable insurance. ROMNEY has the plan to make this affordable. The other candidates (Huckabee) just spout off ideals that could never be implemented through government policy.
So Huckabee has said that we need to change health care. Every candidate has said that. What I would like to know is how. Does he have a plan to do it? Of the candidates I have seen, Obama and Hillary are of the few candidates that have a plan for health care, which would require massive tax increases to cover the costs, and Romney is the only candidate that actually has experience successfully reforming health care, and plans to do the same for the country as president. Does Huckabee, or any of the other Republican candidates have a plan to follow through on this?
The religious bashing is getting old and so are the suggestions that the Mormon Church will run the country through Mitt Romney. Was this true for Mass. when he was Governor? Were people in Mass forced to give 10% of their wages to the church or forced to attend Sunday meetings or to keep the Sabbath day holy? Was drinking alcohol or coffee banned in Mass during his time as Governor? Similarly, were the employees of Bain Cap harrassed, threatened or terminated if they did not join the Mormon church or if they drank a cup of wine with dinner? Come on people - quit mud slinging and come up with something that legitimately sticks. If you are truly going to oppose an individual or an issue, speak factually and educatedly - quit pontificating!.
Me thinks they doth protest too much! Romney certainly has the attention of his opponents, doesn't he?
Washington is broken. Fix it with Mitt ! (Pass it on.)
Romney will get the nomination. He has my vote.
This is in reference to the first person???s three comments here. If Mormons are not Christians then please explain why they are called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints; yet other churches out there with similar names are called Christians. Just because someone in the Mormon religion may have shared their views or values and the way they choose to live or interpret them, but this does not interpret the Mormon Church as a whole. The Mormon people I know are good people who share Christian values with people around them, they are not cult members.
If someone of a different ethnic background or religion does something to me that is offensive or goes against what I believe does it give me the right to stereo type those people of the same ethnic background or religion as bad people or cult members. What happened to Americans belief in the constitution of the right to worship freely?
If someone talks to me at the water cooler about a Catholic priest molesting a child and that person say???s ???ya those catholic people have no values.??? Well should I adopt a stereo type attitude about Catholics because a priest made a bad choice or because someone at the water cooler shared his opinion or stereo typical opinion about all Catholics as a whole? The answer to the question should always be no. People in this country need to look at someone for who they are and if they possess integrity and character along with moral values then it doesn???t matter what religion or ethnic background they are. Stop believing everything you hear from Joe shmo and look at people with an open mind until they prove themselves guilty.
To think a candidates spiriual beliefs have no bearing on their qualifications is misguided at best. If their beliefs are real they will be included in every decision they make. The fact is that Mormonism is a cult-and the most dangerous kind. It was founded and spread by the Father of all lies. To elect a member of this cult to the highest position in our country would be a grave error.
Why is it that many seem to harp on the beleifs of the cadidates? I understand what you are saying about the religon possibly influancing him because that is the cry all non religous people use. Ya know, that nice little thing about seperation of church and state was written for a reason and like it or not, that does protext us from a president doing exactly what you are so worried of him/her doing. How come your not bashing Obama who happens to belong to a racial hate group "Church" when it is so blatenet that he belongs to it? The who finger pointing only seems to stem from the republican side yet Obamas affiliation with Trinity United Church of Christ is a know black supremacy group who openly admits that the jewish peopl need to be removed and"delt" with because they stole the land from the Palastinians. Obamas Church where he was married and also had his children baptized at runs on a system titled " The Black Value System" which is the message that the "white man is the devil" Why is not one news agency touching on this? Why is not one liberal questioning this? Why is the republican side of the house and there beleifs the only ones that matter? Until you find out about your hero Obama and know that even though he has made agreements with pastor Wright to seperate himself for the time being, why dont we even the board and look into the democratic side of this "hanous" fairytail called religon.........................
Are you kidding me? I would rather vote for an atheist that can fix our Nation than a baptist preacher or a buddhist or follower of islam that has nothing more to offer than their supposed spirituality. In case you haven't seen the news lately, we're in the middle of a war and an economic crisis. Our country needs help, not more bigotry. As a Christian myself, I believe that we need inspired leaders, but the Lord can inspire anyone of any religion to make good decisions. Ever heard of Ghandi? (ps- Ghandi wasn't a Christian.) Whether you believe in Mormonism or not doesn't change that Romney is a qualified candidate who has good ideas. So what if he used to think the state shouldn't block abortions if that is the law under the Constitution? He has repented of that notion and is willing to work to stop abortions. As a Christian, you wouldn't throw out all of the writings of the Apostle Paul just because he used to fight against the Church before he was converted! Show some of the love, compassion, and forgiveness the Lord calls for in the Bible- not just for people who believe the same way you do. Make a decision based on who will help fix our nation, not simply on gender, race, or religion.
While it did seem very biased and against Romney, I was totally sold on Romney when he talked about being the best man for the job. Mitt was right about the same old people just changing seats. Almost all the other candidates who have served, McCain for example, he has been in officer for how long? Yeat McCain has done what to make true change? Now all the sudden after all the many years he did nothing to creat change he now has an answer to do so? I live in Massachusetts and I know first hand how Mitt was as Gov. He did more in his 4 years than the combo of Kerry/Kennedy have done in there entire history combined. Mitt's stance on taxes is from his heart. He tried to lower Mass state tax but got cut at the knees from Kennedy/Kerry. He stood on his promise to bring what Kennedy had promised the people of Mass several years ago but when he went to do it, the same idiot who promised it back then was the same man who killed the purposal. Many wonder why Mass is the way it is and many forget that Kerry, Kennedy or even the now famouse Duval "gimmie your money" Patrick do not pay state tax, they are exempt so if the people of Mass had to pay 90% taxes they wouldn't care. Mitt also made it law for ever resident of Mass to have health coverege. This helped me personally. My HC was $597 a moth for me and my familey, Mitt made it affordable by allowing the state to take some of my taxes and even out my payments for coverage. I only pay around $120 a month now and the taxes collected are used to help the people as they were intended. Romney also balanced the state budget that was in the negative. He brought back a surpluse to the people in order to lower the state tax that he failed to do not because of his lack of work but because of the democrats who talk so much about being for the people when they are out there only for themself. IMO, Romney would make the best president that we have had in many years. His honesty, integrity and his pure "care" for the peopl has always seperated him from everyone else. Not only does his record prove it, the man himself shows it.
Mr. Hoyt, are you a mormon basher? Too bad the best and most honest candidate, Mitt Romney, gets trashed by a small group of people like yourself. I am a mormon, and I am not perfect like yourself. I would rather see a calm Mitt Romney ( as he always is ) talking to a foreign leader rather than a rah rah person like Huck or McCain who can't think faster than their mouth talks. People only attack those who threaten them. Mitt, keep taking it on the chin because you will win out. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest about who is best for the job. Do we want a man who wants to convert the country to being Baptist and slamming other religions, a man who runs on his Viet Nam record, or someone who fixes things and knows how to fix financial problems. Last time I heard, the US was 9 trillion in debt. Who can handle that problem, someone who has been in the senate forever and has seen this debt rise because of support for foreign wars or someone who is a preacher. I think someone who is a financial genious needs to help guide us out of debt. Personally, I think Mitt is a great person. Quit the bias card, Mormons are Christians and we beleive in helping all people. We believe that all people have the right to practice their own religion and we also believe in following the law of the land and uphold the Constitution. Huck doesn't believe a person should have the right to practice his faith as witnessed by his attack on Romney. If that doesn't smack the Constituion in the face, I don't know what does. And of course everyone ganging up on Romney in a debate, well, they must be afraid and want him out. That should scare you, because these people want to make sure they get into office, but are the qualified?
I was frustrated and annoyed by the bickering and personal attacks. I wanted to hear how the candidates planned to do to carry out their policies. Instead, much of the time was taken us by "no you didn't - YES I DID!" I listened to the Spin Room talk and was suprised McCain felt he came out on top. I can see now that he did, but I lost some of my previous respect for him. He seemed to play the part of the bully. I know he wasn't the only one bickering, but was most persistent and seemed to truly relish attacking Romney. Severaly times I wished Romney would give it a rest, but I could also see that he was repeatedly backed into a corner . I would probably want to clear my name too, if I was on national television. I hope the next caucus is more polite and productive.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/8/185438/7845/186/433066
RON PAUL'S RACIST NEWSLETTERS REVEALED. and he ADMITS IT!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/8/185438/7845/186/433066
RON PAUL'S RACIST NEWSLETTERS REVEALED. and he ADMITS IT!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/8/185438/7845/186/433066
RON PAUL'S RACIST NEWSLETTERS REVEALED. and he ADMITS IT!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/8/185438/7845/186/433066
RON PAUL'S RACIST NEWSLETTERS REVEALED. and he ADMITS IT!
Romney: Establishment isn't enough. Money isn't enough. Normally with a small field, an establishment Republican (GWB) can survive early losses, but this time the field is large and Huckabee is waiting to chop Romney up. If he doesn't win the next three, he's done. A prediction: Romney goes all in in Michigan, a contest that previously hasn't been getting much attention.
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