Home Run

Mitt Romney managed to capitalize on his Michigan background to win the state primary. Can he maintain the momentum?

By Suzanne Smalley | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Jan 16, 2008 | Updated: 12:40  a.m. ET Jan 16, 2008

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  • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/26/2008 1:55:28 AM

    For those of you who wish to see why Romney makes the best candidate, and leaves the others despising him read this...
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/why_they_hate_mitt_romney.html

  • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 01/24/2008 1:33:25 PM

    Here is a link to a paper that was published 8 or 9 years ago by a couple of leading evangelical scholars re: mormonism and the book of mormon. It's attempt is to wake evangelicals up to the fact that they are being out researched by the mormons and that their tired old arguments have been largely discredited, yet they continue to spew the same stuff over and over again.

    Their conclusion:
    "Some may criticize us for giving the Mormons too much credit and for being too harsh on fellow evangelicals. However, much like testifying against a loved one in court, we cannot hide the facts of the matter. In this battle the Mormons are fighting valiantly. And the evangelicals? It appears that we may be losing the battle and not knowing it."

    This is not a link as a rip on evangelicals. I only offer it as a credible voice (credible to evangelicals who have ear plugs in when it comes to listening to anyone of the mormon faith). If nothing else, it is educational for those of us on both sides of this faith debate.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3803/is_199810/ai_n8808757/print

  • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 01/23/2008 6:02:12 PM

    A couple of encouraging developments for Mitt supporters. He seems to be closing the gap and perhaps taking the lead in Florida. See links below:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_republican_primary-260.html
    http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/01/23/ppp_poll_romney_takes_florida_lead_after_thompson_exit.html

    • Posted By: aad135 @ 01/24/2008 1:13:28 PM

      And here's another Newsweek article comparing the candidates stance on No Child Left Behind (NCLB):

      http://www.newsweek.com/id/96405

      Very good article for those who want to know specifically the candidtaes views on this issue and expert opinions on those positions.

    • Posted By: aad135 @ 01/24/2008 1:10:50 PM

      And here's another article by Newsweek comparing the candidiates educational platforms:

      http://www.newsweek.com/id/96405

  • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 01/22/2008 1:03:27 PM

    PLEASE READ:
    DO US ALL A FAVOR AND IGNORE HOLYROLLER'S POSTS.

    He's really sad and lonely...he seeks your company by drawing you into a contentious debate. He tempts you and baits you into angry, hate laced conversations. You walk away wishing ill feelings towards him. Sound familiar?

    He needs folks to respond to him to feel important. Don't oblige. No hateful lie he tells about the Mormon church can actually make it true. Folks who already dislike Mormons will be inclined to agree with him and not listen to a thing you say in defense. People with a sense of decency and any intelligence will dismiss him and his comments for what they are...and they don't need to hear from you to make up their mind.

    On with the POLITICAL discussion. Cheers.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/22/2008 10:45:57 PM

      Are you saying that Romney's faith is not "on the table"? Is he not a leading example to America what mormons are really like? Is his faith weak, therefore not a factor in the decisions he makes? I for one, put GOD first in my decisions. If I, and countless others feel that the mormon lie is perverted and unholy, and dangerous. Should I not be allowed to state that view. And how did BRIGHAM YOUNG lead his faithful when he had 57 WIVES and a gizzilion kids to take care of? Your god does do miracles.

      • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/22/2008 11:21:23 PM

        Cmon roller.... you still have answered the questions put before you in any of this thread. Again, your not searching for the truth, just trying to dis on everyone else. Next, you will start on Abraham for the wives he had......

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/23/2008 12:17:36 AM

          Mormons say they believe in Jesus but the Jesus they serve is not the Biblical Jesus. The Jesus of the Mormon Church is the brother of Lucifer. Jesus is a spirit child of God the Father and a heavenly mother by physical union. (sex) Jesus was born a child and through obedience to the Laws became a God, therefore Jesus has not always been God. Jesus' shed blood on the cross does not atone for all sins, but there are certain sins that the blood of Jesus does not atone for. Jesus after He was crucified and raised to life married three women and had offspring.

          Mormons say they believe in God the Father but He is not the same One from the Bible. Mormons believe that God the Father was once a man who became a God. Mormons believe that God the Father had a father, and his father had a father, an endless progression of Gods. That means God has not always been God, but the Father was at one time not God by nature.

          Mormons say they believe in the Trinity but their definition is different. The Mormon Church teaches that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit (Trinity) are three different Gods. Mormons believe the Trinity is one in purpose not in nature.

          Mormons say they are the only true Church. The Mormon Church teaches that they are the only true Church and that all others are the Church of the devil. They may not say this to you but they do teach this.

          Mormons say they believe in the Bible. The Mormon Church teaches that there are 4 holy books. These books are: the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants, and the Bible. The Bible in the Mormon Church is least looked upon for doctrine and theology. Mormons are taught that the Bible is correct as long as it goes with their theology. If the Bible contradicts what the other 3 books say or their theology, than the Bible is wrong according to the Mormon Church.

          Are these comments true or lies?

          • Posted By: nyborn @ 01/24/2008 8:13:00 AM

            You know holy if all you can do is spew waste I can't even take the time to respond to you. I'm still waiting for your response on the fact that the bible has books mentioned in it and yet they're lost. According to you the Book of Mormon can't be a real book of scripture bnecause it's not right with the Bible. By the way show me a factual reference that states that Mormons belive Jesus married three women after he was crucified. Also, yes we do belive that some sins even Jesus' atonement won't make up for. So, being the "Christian" that you claim to be no matter if a church has different believes than yours, instead of trying to understand your church must belive in savage attacks without any factual data behind it? Wow, I thought Christians were supposed to be understanding and loving not hate mongers that spread rumors. Holy Roller, all I see of you is hate and prejudice against another faith without any real facts. One day we'll each be judge by the perfect judge hopefully by then you have come to understand a true Christian view.

          • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/24/2008 1:31:35 AM

            I am continually answering your questions. Yet, rather than acknowledge them, you run off to find some other half truth, lie, or distortion to bring up. When you are ready to handle one at a time, and acknowledge some stuff - I will respond in detail to your questions. However, for now I will say that the items you bring up are not in congruence with official church doctrine. And, as far as the LDS church teaching they are the only true church..... doesn't every church believe that? Doesn't every christian faith or denomination, which count over 3,000 believe their religion is the correct one? Didn't they form their own, new church, because they interepreted the bible a little bit different? Don't some think baptism by water is needed, and some not, and some by sprinkiling, and some by immersion, and some by dippiing, etc...? Shouldn't every church think they are teh correct church and be committed to it? And shouldn't they all be willing to respect the right and freedom of each individual to join whichever church they will? So what if the mormons subscribe to their interpretation of the bible, doesn't every other denomination? Even those that profess to be non-denominational, still seperate themselves so that they are also a denomination. Roller, if you were reasonable, we could have an enlightening conversation to get to know and respect one another. But you are not about understanding, tolerating, and become somewhat educated. Your desire is to detract, protest, and judge..... which means your mind, and heart, are closed to being the "good samaritan". Jesus was harsh with the pharisees not becuase of their doctrine, but because of their hearts. Their hearts were hardened so they could not understand. So are the people who deliberately teach to be fearful of any faith including the LDS. Their hearts are hard, so rather than let the religion take its course, their choice is to fight against it. Fighting against anything but sin, has never been the Lord Jesus Christ's stance. You would do well to take an inner look at your motives and reasons for such hatred. And having said that, if I had studied all the anti LDS books and movies you have, and did not know the truth to what they believed, I would be skeptical myself. So, you need to take a different approach to it..... Your anger and attack actually discredits your opinion.

  • Posted By: mjcrew9 @ 01/20/2008 9:39:00 AM

    yea, your candidate wants stimulants in the economy, thats like part time or temporary help. yea, thats an answer, tell me that they are not big government candidates.
    your only fooling yourself.
    Total change in government is the answer.
    Tell me what you candidate is going to do, how he is going to do it, not just bla, bla, bla.
    are any of them talking about putting trillions of Americans dollars back into their pockets or just a couple of hundred, Temporarily. thats what I thought, no thanks, bla, bla, bla.
    Ron Paul, none of the other candidates even match the qualifications like Ron Paul.

    • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 01/22/2008 12:49:42 PM

      Oh, not true. My sister is a Ron Paul supporter, but she can't produce any real accomplishments from Ron Paul either. I would NEVER hire someone for a job if their resume consisted entirely of "good ideas" without any realy experience.

      That sums up Ron Paul. He's only had to vote one way or another for 20 years in congress to establish his "record". But, he's rarely been on a winning side of a vote. He's never had to administer a single program that he has argued for. He's never had to deliver, just talk.

      Ron Paul would be a great radio talkshow host, but he has NO proven record to lead the country. People who talk and have interesting ideas should be legislators (as he is). People with executive and leadership accomplishment should be President's.

      And in all of that, I am giving you the benefit of assuming that all (or a substantial majority) of his ideas or good ones....A point with which I DO NOT agree. For me his ideas don't matter as much simply because he can't pass the first and most important test.

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/22/2008 10:48:24 PM

        You sister can't be mormon then. Even Pinky Reid's mormon democrats voted for him in Nevada.

    • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/22/2008 12:47:17 AM

      Ron Paul actually has some great ideas, and some not so great. The problem that exists, however, is no real clear plan on how to implement these "ideas". From that standpoint, he may get little accomplished, and little support from other politicians. Again, however... good ideas.

  • Posted By: xmas @ 01/16/2008 5:31:56 PM

    Romney is a one-hit deal! He won Michigan becasue he was riding the coat tails of his late father and the former Governor - that is it! Why is the media trying to hype this very explainable outcome into something bigger than it is? The man to watch is McCain.

    • Posted By: Kallen @ 01/16/2008 6:19:27 PM

      You're kidding, right? Where do you see ANY media hyping Romney's win? In EVERY case I've seen, it's being downplayed.

      • Posted By: mariepower @ 01/16/2008 6:24:51 PM

        Apparently Kallen never watches Fox News or listens to Glen Beck or Sean Hannity. They do nothing but promote Romney. I wonder if the fact that Romney's Bain Capital OWNS Clear Channel has anything to do with it????????? Not that Romney needs anyones help. The man is worth 1/4 billion dollars and has already spent tens of millions out of his own checkbook. Now, it turns out, his millionaire buddies are behind the so-called "Club for Growth" that is running all the Huckabee attack ads in between all the Romney direct-funded Huckabee attack ads.

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/16/2008 7:58:06 PM

          Glenn Beck IS A MORMON. Of course he is hyping Romney. Sean just agrees with his politics and is trying real hard to keep religion out of his head. He will not be able to much longer. Romney's done.

          • Posted By: Dan Maloy @ 01/22/2008 5:43:24 PM

            Dude, an honest question for you. I'm being serious here, as a result of reading all your hateful rantings against the LDS church, if Romney is elected president, would you feel God would want you to kill him? I'm being serious. All you spew is hatred. I'd love to hear how you feel about having Romney as your President.

          • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/16/2008 9:02:37 PM

            COme on Holy Rolller... pull out your fork and stick him if he is done. Or better yet.... cast a couple of stones....

    • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/16/2008 9:01:38 PM

      Can you explain Wyoming then?

  • Posted By: aad135 @ 01/16/2008 4:31:10 PM

    Now to comment on this Newsweek article; it is roughshod journalism at best. "Romney 'managed' to capitalize on his Michigan background. Can he maintain the momentum"..? What is that all about. I don't know about you, but on my web browaser, the sponsored links to the right of this article is for Bargain priced LDS "garments" through Shopzilla, Mike Huchabee (searching for a conservative), and Having Doubts (mentoring by former Mormons). This is all offensive to me, but non-the-less liberal media. A poster mentioned the DNC and the liberal media are scared ****less by Romney, as well they should because he is a cnadidate that they cannot couhnter. Huckleberry is a fabrication of both the liberal media and the DNC because he is an evangelical and would like nothing more than the have him as the Republican nominee to beat. They are hoping to be able to beat an evangelical which is a base of our population to the far right of their views. Huckabee was created by the Dems for their exploitation. Why, because they fear Romney. Look to the right of your browser and see what links are there, and tell me I'm wrong...

    • Posted By: Dan Maloy @ 01/22/2008 5:35:18 PM

      Excellent point about the type of companies the article links to. All are either very liberal or of low class.

  • Posted By: yelnek @ 01/16/2008 12:16:53 PM

    I am amazed at the pettiness and narrow-mindedness of many people who spout venom of things they don???t understand. Obvious rhetoric they???ve learned from other bigoted and biased people.

    I am a Bishop in the Mormon Church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). I donate my time to run a local organization called a Ward in which I have about 420 members. I don???t get paid. I spend usually all day Sunday doing it. I spend Monday night with my family, Tuesday night with the Youth, often Thursdays on training or administration, and Saturdays activities to strengthen and support my ward members.

    I am responsible for ALL the people in my ward boundaries whether members of my faith or not. Meaning ??? when there is a birth, death, illness, or other issues we (The ward family) are there to offer our support. We don???t go in and take charge ??? we stand quietly in the shadows and offer assistance in anyway helpful. That can mean dinners brought to the family, the youth helping clean out the basement, the Elders Quorum (men from 18-50) to assist in moving or providing service. Our assistance is typically service but sometimes donated funds can help out families in need of help with utilities or food. The decision of what assistance is appropriate and how to help rests, with me and is usually determined by the family in need and their circumstances.

    When a person in baptized in our faith, their name goes on our roles and will stay there until they are no longer a member. When people no longer want to be associated with the Church they talk to their local Bishop, or write a letter. Yes, we often contact them to make sure they understand the implications ??? no we do not coerce, brainwash or try to change their mind. I???ve handled a few of these. Bishop???s are human ??? sometimes the requests aren???t handled in an efficient manner ??? hopefully very few.

    Of all the ???Beliefs??? mentioned in this discussion forum ??? People are sensationalizing very minute and sometimes obscure beliefs. Most of them have never been preached, commented on or discussed from the pulpit in my ward nor in any Sunday School class. What we emphasize is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, He atoned for our sins, and that we regain our Heavenly Father???s presence by making that atonement effective through kindness and Christian love towards our fellow men. Those who spout rhetoric to try to put the LDS Church in a bad light really don???t understand the LDS Church, what it stands for or the difference it can make in a person???s life who chooses to accept and live by it???s teachings. Those people are free to have their own opinion, but it really amazes me that they would try to demean another???s religion of good people who are just trying to live a Christian life by loving and serving their fellow men.

    If you want to know the truth about the Church, WWW.LDS.ORG, is the official site. Any other website you???re getting so

    • Posted By: Bristol74 @ 01/16/2008 12:48:41 PM

      Please clarify for me some of the doctrinal beliefs of the Mormon Church. You state that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but for you, is Jesus Christ also, God the Son, the second person of the Trinity? Also, do Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the spiritual brother of Lucifer? And for the Mormons, how was Jesus Christ conceived?

      • Posted By: Twister52 @ 01/22/2008 11:42:49 AM

        To "Bristol74" - I am a 42 year old, actively practicing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. - the "Mormons"). You asked "Is Jesus Christ also, God the Son, the second person of the Trinity?" Yes, Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of the world. As far as Him being "the second person of the Trinity", if I understand the intent of your question correctly (ie, the "divinity of Christ"), yes, Christ is the second being in the Trinity, tho I will say we do not believe in the traditional Nicene Council's version of the Trinity. We refer to God and Christ and the Holy Ghost as being the "Godhead"; each member of the Godhead being separate and distinct beings but who are absolutely united in purpose. A good example would be to think of the ideal marriage a husband and wife should be striving for. You also asked, "Do Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the spiritual brother of Lucifer?" Yes, we believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers. Romans 8:16-17 talks about how we are all children of God. Since Christ is the Son of God and WE are children of God then Christ is not only the Son of God but our spiritual brother. Lucifer also was a child of God but rebelled against God's plan for the happiness and progression of His children and was cast out of Heaven for his continued rebellion. See Revelations 12:7-10 on that. You also asked "And for the Mormons, how was Jesus Christ conceived?" Jesus Christ was conceived by the power of God to the virgin Mary, the mother of Christ. Christ is the only one who can say that God was His spiritual father AND his physical father. This pregnancy was miraculous in that upon the Savior's birth, Mary was still a virgin. The LDS church does not now, nor has it ever, taught or believed that Mary was impregnated by God through sexual contact of any form. That is a falsehood told by those who do not understand LDS teachings. I hope this helps and thank you for your integrity in asking honest questions. Have a great day!

      • Posted By: Real Truth @ 01/16/2008 2:43:54 PM

        As a Bishop your works are good, but they wont get you into heaven. You say people are sensationalizing some "obscure" beliefs, Maybe some don't know about your founder Joseph Smith, I would direct them to his King Follett Discourse http://www.mrm.org/topics/documents-speeches/king-follett-discourse. This is the truth about Mormonism as it doesn't relate to historical Chrsitianity. I think that's what everyone is complaining about, expout your true beliefs and stop claiming your Christians. You can say we dont practice this anymore but your "Prophet" who you lay claim to the Kingdom and can't be wrong says differently

        1) God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. If the vail was rent to-day, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible,--I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.

        2) In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. When we begin to learn in this way, we begin to learn the only true God and what kind of a being we have got to worship. Having a knowledge of God, we begin to know how to approach him and how to ask so as to receive an answer

        3)We say that God himself is a self-existent being. Who told you so? It is correct enough; but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul. [Referred to the old Bible.] How does it read in the Hebrew? It does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says, "God made man out of the earth, and put into him Adam's spirit, and so became a living body

        4)The contention in heaven was--Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved; and the Devil said he could save them all, and laid his plans before the grand council, who gave their vote in favour of Jesus Christ. So the Devil rose up in rebellion against God, and was cast down, with all who put up their heads for him.

        Every one of these statements is in direct contradiction to the virtue of Christ, his divinty and pre-existance............there's more, read on and tell me if this doesn't sound like Scientology

        That being said, it would not deter me from voting for Mitt, I just wish the Mormons posting on these boards would tell us the truth about their beliefs, I dont think they want people to know the "TRUTH" about Mormonism

        • Posted By: yelnek @ 01/16/2008 3:53:04 PM

          Perhaps the best thing is to direct you to www.lds.org. Your questions can be answered there. But briefly:

          Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints believe Jesus is the Son of God.

          There is a God in Heaven. He is the Father / Creator of all of our spirits and all of the Universe. We are his spirit Children, you, me, all entities, including Jesus the Christ, and even yes Lucifer or Satan. We were all in the grand council in Heaven before we were born. Our Spirits are eternal and have always existed and will always exist. Jesus Stood above us all and stood next to God. He was the first of all the Spirit Children of God. God s plan was to have us all obtain physical bodies by coming to this earth. It was agreed in heaven that Jesus would be the Redeemer and Savior, He being our oldest brother. Satan disagreed with the plan and wanted control over the spirits of men and the glory. This dissention is where Satan took one third of the hosts of heaven with him and fell. As documented in the Bible. So yes, we believe Jesus and Satan, and you and me are all spiritual brothers or sisters.

          Jesus was conceived when The Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary. We do not know the specifics. God had Sex with Mary is NOT what we teach. Jesus is the literal offspring of God. He is God s Son. Being the Son of God made the only being who could Atone and pay the price of justice and allow mercy to prevail.

          God the Father, his son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost which is a personage of spirit stand as individual beings, separate and distinct but united in the purpose of bringing all men and women back into their presence to receive glory happiness and everlasting exaltation.

          Do we believe as Other Christian faiths in the Trinity? - no . The concept of the Trinity came out of the Nicean Creed and other assemblies in the 3rd and 4th centuries after Christ and they negotiated and compromised as to what the Christian faiths would believe as to the nature of God and Jesus Christ. We do not accept this compromise made by politicians, Christian, Pagans, and self interested parties.

          We believe shortly after the Christian era the truth was lost as well as the priesthood, or the power of God to act on the earth in His behalf. God loves his children and from age to age He establishes Prophets to teach his doctrines. Joseph Smith was one such prophet just as Noah and Abraham, but just in our day. Joseph Smith was the instrument God used to restore his Church in these Latter-Days.

          As to Real-Truth asks who told us so. God did through his Prophet. That s why we have one. Who came up with the Trinity? It wasn t someone speaking for God. Look up how the Trinity came to be. It was a council of men.

          We don t disparage other religions. We hope they will tolerate ours. We like to teach what we know to be true. Others can find this truth themselves. LDS.ORG.

      • Posted By: htachtac @ 01/16/2008 3:33:55 PM

        If you want to know of our beliefs- specifically on the Godhead- go to www.lds.org and in the search column put "The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent" by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland
        Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. It will tell you what we believe regarding the Godhead and why we believe that way.

      • Posted By: Real Truth @ 01/16/2008 2:39:42 PM

        As a Bishop your works are good, but they wont get you into heaven. You say people are sensationalizing some "obscure" beliefs, Maybe some don't know about your founder Joseph Smith, I would direct them to his King Follett Discourse http://www.mrm.org/topics/documents-speeches/king-follett-discourse. This is the truth about Mormonism as it doesn't relate to historical Chrsitianity. I think that's what everyone is complaining about, expout your true beliefs and stop claiming your Christians. You can say we dont practice this anymore but your "Prophet" who you lay claim to the Kingdom and can't be wrong says differently

        1) God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. If the vail was rent to-day, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible,--I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.

        2) In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. When we begin to learn in this way, we begin to learn the only true God and what kind of a being we have got to worship. Having a knowledge of God, we begin to know how to approach him and how to ask so as to receive an answer

        3)We say that God himself is a self-existent being. Who told you so? It is correct enough; but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul. [Referred to the old Bible.] How does it read in the Hebrew? It does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says, "God made man out of the earth, and put into him Adam's spirit, and so became a living body

        4)The contention in heaven was--Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved; and the Devil said he could save them all, and laid his plans before the grand council, who gave their vote in favour of Jesus Christ. So the Devil rose up in rebellion against God, and was cast down, with all who put up their heads for him.

        Every one of these statements is in direct contradiction to the virtue of Christ, his divinty and pre-existance............there's more, read on and tell me if this doesn't sound like Scientology

  • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 7:49:09 PM

    John 10:30 "I and My Father are one."
    John 12:44-45 And Jesus cried out and said,"He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me."
    John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
    Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
    2 Peter 2:1-2:2 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

    • Posted By: Tersky @ 01/19/2008 11:53:21 PM

      You know, the best way to fully understand this is to read that great prayer given by Christ on behalf of his diciples. Read all of John, chapter 17, but especially v21-24: That they may be one; as thou, Father, art in me and I in thee, that they may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me; for thou lovest me before the foundation of the world. And for Pete's sake, read the whole chapter. You might actually try prayerfully reading the whole book. You take stuff out of context and you come up with nutty ideas like... like what? The Trinity, or Karl Jung's theory of Collective Consious? Was Christ praying to himself, or was he an appendage of himself praying to his head, and are we all being invited to join together in one massive ball of collective I Am? Anyone who looks at the Bible as a whole will see the Trinity is a false doctrine. Points in favor of it can only be made by small verses taken out of context with the rest of the Book.

      What kind of One were Adam and Eve supposed to be with one another?

      You won't find a Mormon anywhere who will disagree with any of the verses you listed. Heck, we quote the same ones. We just keep them in context with the verses that surround them and with the rest of the Book.

      Yes, Jesus Christ is the Creator, the Alpha and the Omega, Jehovah of the Old Testament. Our Savior, Redeemer, our mediator, "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." That is why we pray in his name. To the Father, to whom Christ prayed.

    • Posted By: Tersky @ 01/19/2008 11:05:22 PM

      Adam and Eve, husband and wife, one flesh. Same thing?

    • Posted By: aad135 @ 01/17/2008 7:55:39 PM

      I'll reply to this tomorrow, since I am out of here right now. But please, anyone who wishes to add in please, by all means. One qucik tid-bit to HolyRoller; it is very well proven that the scriptures can be used to justify just about any position that you wish, when they are taken out of context and quoted as such. This is why the Book of Mormon is so wonderful, because it fills the gaps that are missing from the Bible. But for now, everyone else, please feel free to have at it...

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 8:04:19 PM

        RE: To aad's comment "This is why the Book of Mormon is so wonderful, because it fills the gaps that are missing from the Bible."
        Fills in the Gaps? Thanks for proving one of my main points-Mormons add to the Bible to support their insane prophet Joseph Smith and his meeting with Satan!

        • Posted By: Bizziebee @ 01/18/2008 5:14:24 PM

          I was a Holy Roller, after I was a S. Baptist for nearly 30 years. I spewed all the same things that come out of your heart and mind. I was wrong. No one convinced me. I did not like the anger and hatred that was in my heart, and I sought repentance from my Savior, Jesus Christ. I knew that those feelings were manifest by Satan. I investigated for myself. I was wrong, and so are you. Seek earnestly and honestly for the truth.
          a

        • Posted By: aad135 @ 01/17/2008 8:16:45 PM

          You don't understand the purpose of the Book of Mormon. As it states on it cover, it is "Another Testament of Jesus Christ". I believe it to be the un-adulterated word of God. It has not been corrupted by the influence of man. I also believe that the Bible is the word of God, as long as it is correctly translated. HolyROller, you are just so hate filled; I feel for you, man. I really do... The problem is, there are so many people just like you willing to be controversial and angry. You need to let the Holy Spirit guide you. Who is the father of contention... What have you been creating here on this post..? Nothing but contention, those of us who are helping you to understand how it is you who have been mis-guided are doing so oonly out of love, concern and compassion for you, one who does not have the truth in his life. Like I've said before to you, I really feel for you man. I was once that way as well...

          • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 10:39:15 PM

            For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15 King James Bible)



            • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 1:38:02 AM

              And what are you trying to say by this one? That eventually your works will either substantiate you or not? Fine with that, what you been doing in your community lately Roller? Putting on anti mormon conferences or something? That ought to score you some points with heaven eh? You'd be better, as we all would, taken a lesson from Mother Theresa....... as near as I can tell she wasn't to much slamming on others doctrines as much as she was just trying to help out God's children. Wonder how God will look at that in the next life?

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 8:00:47 PM

        Every verse I quoted were directly from Jesus except for 2 Peter!

        • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 10:09:49 PM

          Stuff I quoted was from the King james version. No one is turning down the fact the stuff you are saying is from the bible. We just are questioning your translation. And it is evident it is off track.

        • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 9:55:33 PM

          Still quoting your venom eh?

          UnHoly Roller just wants to argue. He still hasn't responded to most of my questions or comments back to him..... Just keeps digging more dirt to publish....

    • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 10:07:41 PM

      And all your babbling proves what point? That Jesus and the Father are one? Of course they are...... But in the words of Thomas Jefferson - ???Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them, and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks (charlatan) calling themselves priests of Jesus. The notion that 3 can be 1 and 1 can be 3.???
      One in person. Jesus coming up out of the water, the holy ghost desends like a dove, the voice from heaven stating "thisis my beloved son in whom I am well pleased." God is either a great ventriliquist or the idea of 3 in 1 is a christian tradition decided 1700 years ago.

  • Posted By: nyborn @ 01/18/2008 1:32:03 PM

    Holyroller, seeing how you seem to think that everything is in the bible maybe you can explain 2 Samuel Ch 1 verse 18 where it references a book called JASHER. Where is this book if the bible is complete?

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/18/2008 2:37:51 PM

      1) Its the only time its mentioned
      2)It means the book of SONGS
      More devious tricks of Joe Smiths fabrications. As my LORD said, "if you have seen me you have seen the FATHER" or "I am in the FATHER and the FATHER is in me" or "In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was GOD....all things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made" or"YE are from beneath, I am from above, ye are of this world I am not of this world."

      JESUS did not become a God, he was, is and always will be ONE. The Alpha and the Omega. To teach multiple gods is heresy.

      • Posted By: Tersky @ 01/19/2008 11:28:24 PM

        Can't imagine why I'm bothering, but: Check out John 2:17, 2 Corintnians 13:1, 1Corinthians 5:9, Luke 24:46, Gal 4:7. Pay attention to quotes and "It is wrttten". Where? See also Num 21:14, 1Kings 11:41, 1 Chron. 29:29, 2 Chron. 9:29, 12:15, 13:22, 20:34, 33:19. Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians (ch 3 v3)mentions an earlier letter. Where is that? Or his epistle to the church at Laodicea (Col 4:16)? The prophecies of Enoch, mentioned by Jude (ch1 v14)? See also Ex 24:7, 1 Sam 10:25, 2 Chron 26:22. And where is the prophecy spoken of by Mathew (ch2 v23) that the savior would be a Nazarene?

        Look at the history of how the Bible was assembled and who did it. It is the work of God, of course, but we mortal, arrogant and ignorant humans have done a gross amount of damage to most of God's good work. Look what Hollywood has done to the miracle of reproduction. I mean...sheesh... who first insisted that the Bible was complete, whole, without flaw? The same folks who said the pope was infallible? THINK MAN!

      • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 5:06:08 PM

        You never did respond to the baptism of jesus and the 3 distinct events that took place. Nor to the Stoning of Steven. It's not multiple Gods. Jesus, as he also said, was the Son of God. I am sure you have something to explain that one away with, as if God is trying to pull the wool over our eyes. I also found the comment by Thomas Jefferson particularly interesting, but you never responded to that one either. Nor did you explain how the bible was compiled.

        For you it is more about the argument, as the there are plenty of facts to send your way.

        Also, There is more than just one book that did not make it into the bible that we have in our hands today. For your education the book of jasher is mentioned two times in 2 Sam 1:18 and again in Josh 10:13. Wars of the LOrd mentioned in Num 21:14, Acts of Solomon 1Kings 11:41, Samuel the seer 1 CHR 29:29, Book of Nathan the Prophet (1 chr 29:29), Prophecy of Ahijah 2 CHR 9:29, Epislte ot the church at Laodicea (COL 4:16), Additional epistle to Corinthians by paul (1 cor 5:9, Eph 3:3), and about tem more that I could list for you if you would like. I will have you check these out first. ANd, you still haven't responded to my Ezekiel 37 passage of another book that would unite the lost tribes.

        ?

        • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/19/2008 12:48:30 AM

          Still can't answer this one can you Roller.... it has dumfounded you. Go ask your preacher how to respond to this, I am sure there is some way you can come back and give a quick jab and avoid the subject.

        • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 5:09:18 PM

          And by the way, that is information from Joseph Smith - those are books that you can find information about on the internet, along with about 30 others...... but the ones I mentioned are in your book, that you hold in your hand - if it is a good translation. I don't know what some of the bikers books say, or the leary translation, etc...etc... etc...

          • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 5:20:00 PM

            Correction on the above, I meant to write that the information isn't from Joseph Smith - as you claim as lies in your above post. It is actually books you can research on the internet, put lost books, or any of the ones I mentioned in google, or just read your bible as it mentions most of them in there. If you need some help I can send you out a good King James BIble with some great search and help tools like a bible dictionary, etc... if you can use it. No charge... just my gift to you. And I truly am not trying to be a jerk, its just that some people get all this misinformation from well or not so well intentioned people, then they slam us with it, without really checking stuff out. Just trying to clear some of that stuff up. Next Lesson - I will show you how the bible was compiled, that should clear up a couple more lousy, structured arguments some people use.

      • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 01/18/2008 5:08:36 PM

        I'm really beginning to like you! If only we could recruit you to accompany Mormon missionaries on visits. You could spew your hate and vitriol, then the missionaries could follow by sharing the the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm sure conversion rates would SKYROCKET!

        MORMON'S FOR HOLYROLLER -- It's a new fan club...I'm electing myself President.

        Go get em Roller...keep spewing!!!

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/18/2008 11:52:57 PM

          Thanks, and I'll gladly accept some of that mormon gold. Just to offset some of our startup costs..Who knows we might be able to save some of those lost souls.

          • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/19/2008 12:42:03 AM

            Still can't answer the questions..... anyone who would read through all these threads can already see through your tirades. Lots of heat, lots of hate, lots of false accusations..... It reminds me of the pharisees, they knew they were wrong, but their pride wouldn't allow them to admit it. In the end, they made sure they crucified the truth.

      • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 5:10:05 PM

        Book of Jasher mentioned, uhhhh.... two times.

  • Posted By: Tersky @ 01/19/2008 11:07:08 PM

    Proven track record of solving complex problems, and of keeping campaign promises. He's the whole package.

  • Posted By: Rolandas Tucas @ 01/19/2008 2:02:53 PM

    Mr. Romney is the best! Lithuanians with You.
    Rolandas Tucas

  • Posted By: nyborn @ 01/19/2008 9:52:59 AM

    Mitt, politics off-limits for Mormon missionaries- The LDS Church's mission is "to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ," LDS spokesman Scott Trotter said Friday. "As a church we are politically neutral and have instructed our missionaries to focus on that mission and to respectfully decline any invitations to discuss politics."
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints bans all political discussion from its pulpits and young missionaries are not allowed to read newspapers or watch television, so they may not even know of the intense political debates swirling about them.

    So as far as that political agenda what do you say now Holy?

  • Posted By: nyborn @ 01/19/2008 9:51:25 AM

    Wow, Holly take a look at this:
    The LDS Church's mission is "to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ," LDS spokesman Scott Trotter said Friday. "As a church we are politically neutral and have instructed our missionaries to focus on that mission and to respectfully decline any invitations to discuss politics."
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints bans all political discussion from its pulpits and young missionaries are not allowed to read newspapers or watch television, so they may not even know of the intense political debates swirling about them.
    The amazing part here roller is that this is the Sltribune.com, again a orginization not controlled by the church. The article is titled, "Mitt, politics off-limits for Mormon missionaries".
    The amazing part

  • Posted By: nyborn @ 01/18/2008 5:41:20 PM

    Can you explain away all these books? By the way why not give someone whose died proper respect by refering to them with the correct name. Joe Smith didn't fabricate what I stated at all, I looked for lost books mentioned in the bible through Wikipedia, or wait is that a devious trick of Joseph Smith?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lost_Jewish_texts

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/18/2008 11:49:43 PM

      No I can't but I'll look into it, but are any of those books called The Book of Mormon. I looked and didn't see it anywhere.

      • Posted By: nyborn @ 01/19/2008 8:07:43 AM

        You truly are amazing Holy. So, your logic to explain away the Book of Mormon is that since it's not mentioned in the Bible it must be false? LOL Oh, just to make you aware, Joseph Smith was never convicted in a legal accusation in all his life. The whole idea that you have that he did this for money and sex, he never had much money thats why many times he needed the help of his fellow members to survive. Maybe you can also look into the number of children he and his wife lost due to mobs breaking into his house and dragging him out in the middle of the night to tar and feather him.
        Oh and just a couple things here, (pulling straight from the Bible), look at Gal. 5:22. A true Christian wouldn't be posting all these lies and accusations like you are because the fruits are the opposite of the spirit referenced in this verse. I must say I'm still waiting for factual data to back up these claims that you keep making. If Joseph Smith was such a con how come the church didn't fall after he died? Here's another scripture you could use. Matthew Ch. 7 vs. 20. If the Mormon Church is such a cult than why do we help everyone each time a natural disaster occurs? Many churches help at sometime I don't doubt that but the LDS faith is a leader in providing relief for others. Oh as for the Trinity and the "one" scriptural reference , again how can one person be in 3 places at once as in Jesus' baptism? The one refers to one in purpose. Luke 23:46 states that Jesus cried with a loud voice and commended his spirit into God's hands. So, does that mean He commended his spirit into his own hands? This logic is dizzying.

      • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/19/2008 12:39:42 AM

        Wow... not even the decency to look up those scriptures that you claim don't exist in the bible. Of course if you did, you would realize you are incorrect. But, you aren't man, or women enough to admit you are incorrect on this one. Some would call it pride and arrogance.....

  • Posted By: gambrose @ 01/18/2008 10:58:48 PM

    I live in Tiffin, Ohio and Bain Capital bought American Standard in October/2007 and closed our plant within 3 months. Mitt Romney started Bain Capital and ran it until 1998. They closed our plant (barely giving us 22 weeks notice) and I had 29 years of service and they gave us no severance and I mean nothing. Mitt Romney is in Michigan campaigning he will save jobs

    • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/19/2008 12:46:11 AM

      American Standard, that is the plumbing fixture company? Are they going out of business? If so, another reason why NAFTA doesn't work in my opinion. We are allowing goods, in particular from China, to make there way here without decent tariffs. And since they, China, has no child labor laws.... and we do.... well, it costs to much for us to produce it. I hope whether it is Romney, or any other Republican or Democrat... this changes.

    • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 11:07:40 PM

      Sorry to here that you lost your job and benefits. I don't know exactly what this has to do with Romney however. He no longer holds a stake in the day to day operations of Bain Capital. No longer associated. And, one man cannot save everymans job. Doesn't make your situation any better... at the same time, it is not Romney's fault you no longer have a job. I am sure most of us could talk about unfair breaks, and beatings we have taken in jobs, etc..... Good luck to you, when one door closes - another opens.

      • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/18/2008 11:47:02 PM

        Hey Jazzy, are you a paid consultant? I hope so, because if you actually believe your words, you would probably believe that fairy tale about an angel giving the true secrets of God to a convicted con man, so the con man could save the sheep. No, just kidding, surely no one would fall for that.

        • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/19/2008 12:37:51 AM

          Sad this is roller, you ask and ask and ask.... we give answers. The only thing you give back in return is jabs and pokes. Is as if you know you are wrong, so you just continue on with the argument. We know your type Roller....

  • Posted By: gambrose @ 01/18/2008 10:57:25 PM

    I live in Tiffin, Ohio and Bain Capital bought American Standard in October/2007 and closed our plant within 3 months. Mitt Romney started Bain Capital and ran it until 1998. They closed our plant (barely giving us 22 weeks notice) and I had 29 years of service and they gave us no severance and I mean nothing. Mitt Romney is in Michigan campaigning he will save jobs

  • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 2:41:56 PM

    who is your candidate of choice Holy Roller? You still haven't answered that one.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 2:46:12 PM

      Pay attention when you read, I support Rudy Guiliani.
      P.S. No one's denying God created everything. I'm asking if you believe Jesus and Satan are brothers. Because according to the book of John, God sent his ONLY son.

      • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 2:50:43 PM

        Sent his only Son "of the flesh" - to save us! Aren't you a child of God? Didn't he send you also? If not, how'd ya get here, and why?

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 3:00:59 PM

          Re:John1:1-1:5
          It doesn't say "of the flesh" in my version! Another Add-on huh?

          • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 3:13:20 PM

            You got the Bikers Translation or something? Check out John 6:53, Rom 1:3, Rom 8:3. He is the son of God, and he did have flesh?

            • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 3:36:09 PM

              Why do cultists always change the scriptures to fit their dogma, or in the case of mormans write a whole new book. By the way has ya'lls angel, whats his name Macaronni or something visited Utah lately.
              Just thought he might like to endorse Mitt on O'Reilly.

              • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 3:57:07 PM

                I didn't change any scriptures, I pulled them out of the bible. You should study your own dogma. The Trinity was a result of the Nicene creed in the 3rd century. It was a Catholic doctrine.

                But, you jump from point to point. Even though one answer silences you. You start on something else to move from topic to topic. You don't want the truth, just wish to argue is all. But, again it came from the bible, just like the other 2500 christian denominations in america pull their doctrine and beliefs. By the way study Rev 14:6, and Ezekiel 37: 15-22 before you bash God bringing forth another book of scripture. Oh, and if you then quote Rev 22:18 as a rebuttal you ought to first understand how the bible came to be. Becuase that passage is found in the old testament as well.

                • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 4:18:45 PM

                  Bottom Line- NO TRINITY=NO CHRIST=NO HOLY GHOST=PLURALISM=BLASPHEMY=LIES=LOST. Every mormon I've ever known has been a good citizen, they do not however teach christianity. They teach lies formed by a two-bit huckster with a strong desire for money, sex, and power. Both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were very low character charlatans. Not to mention a little crazy.

                  • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 8:53:39 PM

                    I have read many of your posts. And though you say mormons are good citizens, they are not christians. What really is your definition of a christian? I would think there are many fine people who believe in the goodness and the good things Jesus taught, and follow them. Yet by your definition, if they don't believe exactly as you do - then they are not christian? That very doctirned you espouse is so anti - christ it is unreal! What has made you the authority? When did God reward you wiith being the judge of who is christian and who is not?

                  • Posted By: mistyvalley @ 01/17/2008 6:33:59 PM

                    Did you know that the Roman Catholics (Constantine), in about 400 A.D. at the Council of Nicea, determmined what Christianity would be and what writings or books would be included in the Bible?
                    By the way, I was a Lutheran for many years. I am now a Mormon. What a difference this has made in my life. I truly believe that the Mormons are the best example of how we should live our lives.
                    The Lutherans believe in the Triune God, as do the Mormons. What is all of this about the Trinity?

                  • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 6:09:10 PM

                    You neither know what they taught, have studied it, or looked at their character. Your "education" on mormonism came out of two or three people. Who once they broke all the rules and commandments got disenchanted and started telling all the non-mormons lies. Because "they were once a member". Then they right a book, make a movie, and then come out to your church where you will listen to it. It is called sensationalism, which is sensational as it is so far out there - I don't know how anyone could believe. Then you try to pull it off as it is some big discovery and secret, that will wow... the world. Most normal people will shrug it off - but some of you graduates of the "timothy leary bible interpretation" class continue to use it as what it is. Plain and simple...... Bigotry, hatred, all tied up in a little package of lies and mistruths. Say what you want - but as near as I can tell. You, my friend, spent to much time studying the 60's cultural movement through expirementation.

                • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 4:20:05 PM

                  How the Bible came to be? Didn't Joe Smith write it?

                  • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 6:03:54 PM

                    Whatever Roller..... you can't even answer a question without a jab. Guess you have no clue....

        • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 2:53:53 PM

          Rudy eh? Whats wrong with Huck? I thougth he'd be your man.... Are you sure your a conservative? You seem more liberal to me.... more inline with Rudy on abortion, etc...

          • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 2:55:02 PM

            Not that you do or don't agree with abortion, but that is where your man lines up.

            • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 3:02:30 PM

              Shame on you JazzyBop for trying to turn this into a debate on abortion versus a debate on Mormonism vs. THE TRUTH! :(

              • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 3:14:04 PM

                Just pointing out that your political views deviate from a true conservative christian.

  • Posted By: AH1986 @ 01/17/2008 6:03:34 PM

    For all of your slandering of the Mormon church, and your little Expose's on our beleifs, the fact still remains that you haven't convinced anyone. You can send them to all the different anti-mormon site you want but just think, how many people have read your rantings and have actually went to LDS.org to find out for themselves. I say to you go ahead. Rant, rave, fling your stones, but know this. The work of God has stayed the test of time itself , nor you, nor the world, or the very powers of Hell can stop this work from moving on. They may have murdered Jopseph smith, but guess what.......God called ANOTHER prophet.....and another....and another.....and there will always be a prophet on this earth to receive revelation for the world as pertaining to His will, until our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ returns . Until that day fight if you wish, but it won't do anything but keep you from the blessing that are awaiting you.

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 7:12:44 PM

      How come your profits keep changing doctrine. GOD doesn't change but Mormon doctrine sure does. Unless your just fooling us all, maybe polygamy is still as much fun as it used to be. And maybe blacks still are cursed

      • Posted By: aad135 @ 01/17/2008 7:33:50 PM

        Yes, the scriptures state that "...God is the same, yesterday, today and forever." But that does not mean that we stay the same. When we are ready for something new, or God pushed us too far too fast, HIS requirements of us change. It is well known that when Moses first descended from Mt. Sinai that he held God's higher laws, yet when Moses saw what had happened during his absence to the Israelites, God said they were not yet ready, and had them wander in the wilderness for 40 years until they were purged from the people. If God is the same and doesn't change, what did Jesus mean when He said, "I have not come to break the law but to fulfill the law"..? The Savior's ministry fulfilled the Law of Moses and instituted the higher law of the Gospel. God's rules for us changed, we were ready for this next step, yet,mankind failed miserably and fell into apostacy (no light from God). Here is a real quick snap shot of evidence that the heavens have opened to us once again. How did Julius Caesar arrive at his coronation? By a horse drawn carriage. Nearly 2000 years later, Abraham Lincoln arrived at his Presidential Innaugeration by a horse drawn carrieage as well. In just over a hundred years since Lincoln, we have put a man on the moon, the internet, technology has greatly advanced. In 1830, God and His Son Jesus Christ appeared to the boy Joseph Smith and ushered in the new age that we are living in now. If God is the same, why are we not still riding horses everywhere? His technology for us would be the same, wouldn't it, why would we need more..? What is always the same is the end that the Lord wants for us, and that is eternal life and exaltation; how he helps us accomplish His goal for us changes. Why not call a true prophet if He wants us to do something? All of the founders of the modenr religions, save one, does not claim divine resoration from God Himself. His church changes as we change and are ready for more...

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 8:28:49 PM

          Now I understand-the mormon god is more technologically advaned thanwhat traditional Christians believe. I certainly am more convinced now that mormons and Scientologists are cut from the same cloth.

          • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 5:23:46 PM

            Actually not more technologically advanced, just less of a mystery..... He really isn't trying to confuse us.

          • Posted By: aad135 @ 01/18/2008 2:05:05 PM

            HolyRoller - It doesn't matter what I believe, it matters what is your set of morals and standards. Do you believe that your God (however you worship Him) sanctifies your approach to calling another person to repentence? Are you living by the Evangelical, "Non-Denominational", and Born-Again Christian creed of "WWJD"..? Please, quit judging me, and other LDS, for my/our beliefs, which are founded in my/our faith in Christ (the ONLY definition of what it means to be a true Christian). "Judge ye not, lest ye be judged." Is the Golden Rule any part of your set of standards..? If so, then I guess it would be okay for someone like me to publically denigrate your belief structure, because that is sure what you have been up to. Don't get me wrong, HolyRoller, as I stated a long time ago, you have the right to say and do anything you wish; that's America, but ask yourself, WWJD..? If you are even half the "Christian" you claim to be, be honest, with everything that you have said here, would you be ashamed to stand in front of the Savior to give an accounting of what you have done..? I yes, you're a much prouder person than I am. Be the person you claim to be, stand-up and be a man, agree to disagree, but quit trampling over another person's faith.

          • Posted By: kristivegas @ 01/17/2008 11:13:24 PM

            You will never see a Latter-Day Saint jumping on and off a couch on National TV and you will never see a Latter-Day Saint criticize a good friend for getting help for his/her depression on National TV. It's unfortunate that your fear overtakes your ability to be tolerant of others. Scientologists embrace their beliefs because it works well for them in their lives-you don't have to agree with it but it is also not your place to judge them. There are PROFOUND differences between The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints and Scientology. To lump them into the same category is very ignorant and uninformed. You really should do some research into the things you profess to know everything about.

        • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 7:58:29 PM

          The Light NEVER went out in me. The light shines in me because the Holy Ghost resides in me.

          • Posted By: hoopes_az @ 01/18/2008 10:27:01 AM

            I'm thinking probably not. If you think all of your ranting is inspired by the Holy Ghost, then your Holy Ghost is quite a bit different than the one that tells prompts me to just be respectful of you, even in the face of your constant offensive attacks.

            I am begining to see your point, though. Mormon doctrine is quite different from the doctrine you adhere to. The thoughts and feelings you claim to be inspired from the Holy Ghost, we would ascribe to satan, the adversary, the father of all lies.

            • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/18/2008 11:12:45 AM

              Comment: "6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:6-9 King James

          • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/17/2008 9:57:35 PM

            How does it reside in you? According to your doctirne the holy ghost isn't a force, and he the father and the son are all one. What kind of stuff you got going on inside you there Roller?

            What kind of doctrine you preachin?

    • Posted By: HolyRoller @ 01/17/2008 10:47:24 PM

      "6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:6-9 King James

  • Posted By: jazzbebop @ 01/18/2008 1:40:49 PM

    Mitt Romney for President!!!!!!!!!! THompson VP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Michael Medveb.........??????? Misguided talk show host?

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