Better Prevention or Changing Attitudes?

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  • Posted By: Happy2behappy @ 01/17/2008 12:23:08 PM

    I don't care how many times you all hear this but it seems as though people like me need to remind you all that abortion is wrong. How can anyone be SO cold hearted to say that its alright to kill a baby. Its plain and simply murder. As for people like nycgirl, who admits she murdered her baby, I can't imagine how deluded she allowed herself to get. Saying she feels better to have murdered her own flesh and blood. Look if you REALLY don't want the baby then care for the baby till you can put it up for adoption but don't murder the kids.
    Don't be fooled by thinking that an embryo is an "it" because thats a BABY in the making, your baby. God blessed her with that child and she just threw it back in his face. It really is sad.

    Shame on the doctors who commend it too. What about your OATH doc?! What happened to it? You rather kill life then bring it into this world? Can you even find your hearts any more? Deluding yourselves with the thought that a baby is an "it". You Doctors are not even doctors but criminals allowed to live threw some shrewd twisted loophole in the system which is also full of corrupt heartless people.

    I have every right to be angry at these cold hearted people because for a brief moment ,my mother too(she was 17 almost 18), was deciding to do an abortion with me inside her. She told me herself when I was able to understand. I'm very happy to be alive today. I'm 27, union sheet metal worker, and VERY satisfied to be ALIVE.

    • Posted By: AztecMan @ 01/17/2008 2:06:51 PM

      Well, why don't we outlaw christianity (mainly Catholic)in this country as well. It has killed FAR more people than abortions ever will! Its even made ancient cultures extinct. All those Spanish running around smoking down the natives of the Americans all in the name of Christ. CONVERT OR DIE was their mantra. How dare you tell others on how to live their lives. How can somebody who's religion has so much blood on its hands convince me that it really cares about the unborn? It can't. Its all about control. Religion has ALWAYS been about control. I hope I may one day see humanity grow out of its 'infancy' and dump these silly dogmas before they kill us all.

    • Posted By: AztecMan @ 01/17/2008 2:03:51 PM

      Well, why don't we outlaw christianity (mainly Catholic)in this country as well. It has killed FAR more people than abortions ever will! Its even made ancient cultures extinct. All those Spanish running around smoking down the natives of the Americans all in the name of Christ. CONVERT OR DIE was their mantra. How dare you tell others on how to live their lives. How can somebody who's religion has so much blood on its hands convince me that it really cares about the unborn? It can't. Its all about control. Religion has ALWAYS been about control. I hope I may one day see humanity grow out of its 'infancy' and dump these silly dogmas before they kill us all.

    • Posted By: Motherof2inVA @ 01/17/2008 1:16:53 PM

      When people like you want to take away "choice" you leave a whole group of women out there who don't want their pregnancy and if made to keep it, may decide after looking at the born child they want to keep it and then they end up abusing the child or worse killing the child. What is worse killing a fetus that really has no feeling, no sense of what is going on or having this child beaten, abused, tortured by parent(s) who never really wanted them to begin with. That child will indeed have a sad life with a sad ending. Not always but it does happen. I would rather the child not suffer.

  • Posted By: telicity @ 01/17/2008 12:28:30 PM

    partial birth abortion diagram, see if you can stomach it http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

    • Posted By: mrsavizdrav @ 01/17/2008 1:48:26 PM

      The images on the address posted by "telicity" can (and should) make one sick. But, images of beaten, molested, abandoned, sick.... children are making us sick too, and there is not much we can do. There are, and there will always be so many bad people. Banning abortion will not make this World better. It will make more criminals.

      • Posted By: telicity @ 01/17/2008 2:03:41 PM

        If nothing else partial birth abortion should be banned. Yes abused children is also horrible, just as much should be done to save them as well. We can't just give up on our children because bad people exsist.

    • Posted By: jordanandsarahsmom @ 01/17/2008 12:36:59 PM

      Thanks telicity... but you know... t hats not cruel.... just necessary if you want to be able to have margaritas with your girlfriends on friday night instead of being saddled with a baby.

      People are just sick.

      • Posted By: Cecile @ 01/17/2008 12:49:33 PM

        ARE YOU FOR REAL!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: sosome @ 01/17/2008 1:54:08 PM

    I don't think abortion should be used as birth control, nor do I think that it is something women really want to go through. Given good sex ed people will choose to either abstain from sex or use birth control- and what they choose to use is really their own business, no one else's. People have children when they are ready and also at times when they are not. It may be seen as a blessing or a heartache. None of us can ever understand what people are thinking because we are not them. We have not had the life experiences they have had nor are we in the position that brought them to make one decision or another. Religious or not, I don't think the idea of abortion is ever looked at as a good thing. There are times though when it may be necessary. For example, for any of you that have daughters: If your daughter was raped and became pregnant as a result, would you force your child to carry that baby full term, knowing what happened to conceive that baby? Those are instances when we have to stand back and question whether or not taking away the woman's right to choose is a wise one. I take the pill so I won't become pregnant right now. I couldn't afford to have a child at this time. But I don't think that means that should strip my right to have sex away, especially if I am taking preventative measures to not get pregnant. Sex IS a healthy thing, contrary to what some of you may think.

  • Posted By: sosome @ 01/17/2008 1:53:15 PM

    I don't think abortion should be used as birth control, nor do I think that it is something women really want to go through. Given good sex ed people will choose to either abstain from sex or use birth control- and what they choose to use is really their own business, no one else's. People have children when they are ready and also at times when they are not. It may be seen as a blessing or a heartache. None of us can ever understand what people are thinking because we are not them. We have not had the life experiences they have had nor are we in the position that brought them to make one decision or another. Religious or not, I don't think the idea of abortion is ever looked at as a good thing. There are times though when it may be necessary. For example, for any of you that have daughters: If your daughter was raped and became pregnant as a result, would you force your child to carry that baby full term, knowing what happened to conceive that baby? Those are instances when we have to stand back and question whether or not taking away the woman's right to choose is a wise one. I take the pill so I won't become pregnant right now. I couldn't afford to have a child at this time. But I don't think that means that should strip my right to have sex away, especially if I am taking preventative measures to not get pregnant. Sex IS a healthy thing, contrary to what some of you may think.

  • Posted By: Ithink4myself @ 01/17/2008 1:49:29 PM

    I believe the constitution was enacted so that the Government did not force any one religion on anyone. Not the other way around.

  • Posted By: breath @ 01/17/2008 12:42:31 PM

    I think it would be informational for many of your readers here to have the opportunity to read Francis Collin's book, (Francis is head of the Human Genome project, with over a 1000 geneticists under him) His book is titled The Language of God and offers a coomon ground for scientists and believers to meet. Francis is a believer in Jesus Christ and believes abortion is wrong. He presents discussion regarding bio ethics which applies not only to abortion but insight into today's just released news regarding cloning. The great news in these latest abortion statistics is this generation of 20 somethings are a very moral generation and choose life over death. We will all be surprised at the choices, kind, informed and educated choices they make. These young upcoming scientists will find solutions which help all. Yes their is great heartache allaround...we need to link up better those paying 50,000 for a baby to adopt with the desperate-(sometimes older) women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnacy. Love covers over so many things. We need to love one another and help one another find good solutions to the pain each finds themselves experiencing. With these thoughts know that many just like me will be marching to repeal roe vs wade (the supreme court abortion law) next week. Remember we are not your enemy but are trying to help each make wise, informed decisions. In fact we would like to help and not hurt you.

    • Posted By: dpaano @ 01/17/2008 1:16:28 PM

      :Nanurally, it was written by a man. When men can have babies and have a decision to make as to abortion or going full term -- then they can tell me how to make an important decision like that. Otherwise, they need to butt out!

      • Posted By: Ithink4myself @ 01/17/2008 1:46:14 PM

        I am a woman. Now think about what you just said. It's funny how we women say it's our bodies - men can't have babies, so they should not be able to decide or object to abortion. Then those same women can decide to have the child, and turn around and force a man to pay child support for the next 18 years! We make ourselves look ridiculous with statements like that!

  • Posted By: telicity @ 01/17/2008 1:46:13 PM

    Partial Birth Abortion remains legal primarily because of common misconceptions about the topic. Many people believe that partial birth abortions are rare, and are only performed to save the mother. However, in the United States alone, thousands of partial birth abortions are performed every year, almost exclusively for elective and not health-based reasons1. These babies are killed: were they to be fully and not partially delivered their lives could be saved. Many people argue that the anesthetics used in the process kill the baby, so death to the child painless. However the American Society of Anesthesiologists testified to Congress that this is simply not true.

  • Posted By: CIAmom007 @ 01/17/2008 1:44:59 PM

    Unfortunately there will always be a seperation between church and state. The believers and non believers. There will NEVER be a definative answer because there are so many choices. This isn't a black and white subject no matter how we try to slice it. Everyone has something to say about it and it will always be a fight to the end for both sides.

  • Posted By: blue_rylie @ 01/17/2008 1:31:32 PM

    I'm enjoying reading all these statistics on how much Planned Parenthood made, how it is big business. Because I'm sure the rest of the medical community is providing their services for free, right? Medicine, in all of it's forms, is business. Why do people expect PP to be different? Why is it disgusting for PP to turn a profit but if it's an OB/GYN at a hospital that is okay? Should heart surgeons be offering up their services for free next, after all a life depends on it! Get off that high horse, it IS business, it's a medical business just like ANY OTHER medical business. And if profit is the basis of your argument against it, then you're really really in the wrong nation because our medical community is all based on profit. Without profit, the business closes and the services are no longer available. That applies to PP, OB/GYN's, heart surgeons, and every other medical professional on the map.

  • Posted By: Have a nice day. @ 01/17/2008 12:49:04 PM

    Now if we can just get people to stop encouraging POST NATAL abortions, we are all set. The use of RU486 is wrong, but stuffing a kid full of McDonalds food four times a week and letting him bake in the sun with no sunscreen all summer so that he gets heart disease and melanoma by age 25... hardly "pro-life." Nobody is perfect, folks. Look inwardly and examine all the harmful and potentially fatal practices you participate in EVERYDAY that affects ALL of that so called SACRED LIFE around you and around the world. How many children in Iraq did YOU indirectly kill today so that you could get a democracy set up there that would allow for a pipeline to be run through the center of their country (former United States ally Sadaam Hussein wouldn't allow it) so that we could extract their oil cheaper and continue to run your SUV? How many children will YOU kill the course of the next generation, because YOU can't take the extra time to recycle, and end up dumping mercury cell phone batteries into the food and water supply thus increasing the cancer rates? If you really want to be PRO LIFE, ban war, ban the use of trans fats, ban smoking. Hey, I am pro fetus too. I wouldn't encourage anyone to have an abortion, my beef here (as a vegetarian) is simply to ask people to take a deep breath, and truly examine if your practices are meshing with your beliefs.

    • Posted By: mrsavizdrav @ 01/17/2008 1:31:21 PM

      Yes, very well said. It's not important only to give a child life, but also what kind of life will that child have. I know several teenage single moms, who were to stupid to care about using birth control, didn't have money for an abortion!!!, and didn't want to even consider giving their children for adoption. Those kids have no chance of a normal life, of getting any good education, and I???m afraid one day the little girls will end up in similar situation as their mothers.
      Kids need more education on every aspect of life, including sex (preaching abstinence is b.s.), healthy nutrition, care about the environment???

    • Posted By: luciefreddie @ 01/17/2008 12:58:45 PM

      Well put...I don't agree with it all...but it does add light and a bit of humor to the dialog.

      • Posted By: Have a nice day. @ 01/17/2008 1:10:28 PM

        Glad to bring the humor. Yeah, I'm the Jerry Seinfeld of abortion. "And what's with these abortions? Who are these people?" (read the quotes doing your best mental Seinfeld voice impression and it's almost funny).

  • Posted By: telicity @ 01/17/2008 12:12:43 PM

    I am still waiting to hear pro choice r's opinion about partial birth abortion. Must be unjustifiable!

    • Posted By: dancingdiamonds4 @ 01/17/2008 12:48:32 PM

      Telicity......The reason that so called partial birth abortion is even used is in those extreme cases where the mother's life could be in danger. I have spoken to several physicians on this subject. It is NEVER used as a means to rid oneself of an unwanted pregnancy. Quit frankly, any woman's life is more valuable than any potential life at any given point in pregnancy. If you don't believe in that than you open up the arguement that women's lives are not as valuable as men's lives or fetus's lives. Women then become useful to society only as breeding animals and are disposable after that.

      • Posted By: telicity @ 01/17/2008 1:10:57 PM

        I personally would lie down my life for my child, but I would not judge those who would not. I realize most physicians do not practice partial birth abortions unless it is necessary, but abortion clinics can give a partial birth abortion at the request of the mother. As of 2000 it is the womans right to have a partial birth abortion up to 9 months. I talked earlier about a case doctor Ron Paul was talking about in a interview were the boyfriend broke up with the mother who was 8 months pregnant. the mother decided to have a partial birth abortion. the baby survived, so the doctor drown the baby. The doctor is on jail for murder. It is legal and it does and can happen.

        • Posted By: telicity @ 01/17/2008 1:25:29 PM

          Partial Birth Abortion remains legal primarily because of common misconceptions about the topic. Many people believe that partial birth abortions are rare, and are only performed to save the mother. However, in the United States alone, thousands of partial birth abortions are performed every year, almost exclusively for elective and not health-based reasons1. These babies are killed: were they to be fully and not partially delivered their lives could be saved. Many people argue that the anesthetics used in the process kill the baby, so death to the child painless. However the American Society of Anesthesiologists testified to Congress that this is simply not true2.

    • Posted By: GeorgiaJayhawk @ 01/17/2008 12:31:26 PM

      Hi telicity, I'm pro-choice, and I'll be more than happy to give you my opinion. I think we should have options and choices, but you can't be 6 months into a pregnancy and just decide you don't want to do this....you've missed your opportunity, and made the choice to carry the baby to term by default if nothing else. I think a woman should definately have the right to choose, but that is a decision that needs to be made within the first 12 weeks. The ONLY time, in my opinion, that late term abotions are ok, is when there is a direct and potentially fatal risk to the woman is she continues on with the pregnancy.

      • Posted By: luciefreddie @ 01/17/2008 12:40:16 PM

        A "fetus" (to satisfy both prolife and prochoice) is viable as early as 5 months, more realistically 28 weeks. Third trimester abortions are not justifiable.

  • Posted By: breath @ 01/17/2008 1:25:28 PM

    response to dpaano...just read the book precious lady , from another precious lady...The Language of God by Francis Collins..bless you in all you do and may shalom be with you.

  • Posted By: Logical_Thinker @ 01/17/2008 1:05:40 PM

    Your faith blinds you . . . . a funny twist of fate if I do say so myself. Making abortions illegal would be a horrific error on the part of Americans. First, any time you try to take a right way from Americans that they have previously held and heavily used the outcome is very negative. Case in point: the Prohibition of Alcohol only lasted 14 years and in that time it gave rise to the most power organized crime rings of our country???s history and the production, sale, and consumption of alcohol also continued only without any government regulation. People killing each other over alcohol . . . . yet another success for the religious conservatives of this country. Second, our country will go bankrupt. Thanks to Bush???s holy war in Iraq, our country is in the most debt we have ever been in. By making abortions illegal while having laws that allow for any mother to leave their baby at any hospital, police station, or fire station without question, you are basically just inviting people to dump their unwanted kids into the government foster system. Even if I am conservative and say that only 50% of the people who are forced to bring their children to term choose to give them to the government (The other 50% either keeping the child or having an illegal abortion) then that still puts about 500,000 babies into the system. As of last year, the average cost of housing a child in the system for a year was nearing a million dollars. That would add an additional 500 Billion dollars per year into a budget that is already strained. Just to give you a sense of how much that is, in 2007 the United States spent 586.1 Billion on Social Security and 548.8 Billion on Defense. Throw in the cost of enforcement as well as the increased crime rate that will result over time (as proven by the statistical fall in crime over the last 25 years caused by legal abortions in areas where unwanted children are more likely to commit crimes) and ending abortion would become one of the most expensive programs in the country. Are you willing to pay about 10% more of your income in as taxes to cover it? You???re a conservative so probably not.

    In conclusion, I personally do not like abortions, but I am not going to stand here and say I wouldn???t have one because I won???t ever face that decision. When it comes down to it, Jesus may not like it, but that has no relevance in the political scene. The simple fact is that the country needs it.

    • Posted By: vince.stewart @ 01/17/2008 1:21:21 PM

      Good Point.
      Another problem I have seen in rural and low socio-economic areas that people have MANY children. Overpopulation is another problem altogether.

  • Posted By: dpaano @ 01/17/2008 1:20:04 PM

    In response to "Breath," naturally the book you mention is written by a man! When men can have babies and have to make the abortion vs full term decision, then they can tell the rest of us women what to do -- until then, they need to butt out of the situation because they have NO idea what a woman goes through in making this tough decision! I'm not pro-abortion for myself, but I certainly don't feel I have the right to tell another woman how to make her decision; I can only make the decision for myself. That's the way it should be!

  • Posted By: bethyb @ 01/17/2008 12:37:23 PM

    Let's see... birth control is more expensive (much more) now, so fewer women are using it.... and abortion is only available in 23% of US counties. I'm pretty sure it's lack of access. Abortion is expensive, often requires a trip across state lines, a "waiting period" that keeps women away from work and children, and access to abortion clinics is extremely limited. If there is a change in attitudes, it was necessitated by costs and limitations on abortion, not the other way around.

    • Posted By: telicity @ 01/17/2008 12:42:07 PM

      If you really can't afford birth control go down to the local health department and get it for free, thats why we pay taxes.

      • Posted By: wvupiphi @ 01/17/2008 1:00:26 PM

        Have you ever tried to get birth control at the health department-- funding is cut to the bones, there are limited types available, and appointments need to be made weeks in advance. As for those few people with health insureance, it is still a struggle, average copays are $25 a month with plans only covering certain types.

        • Posted By: telicity @ 01/17/2008 1:17:36 PM

          actually that is where I had to get my birthcontrol

  • Posted By: rs1234 @ 01/17/2008 1:13:12 PM

    What I find amazing is that no where in this article does it give more current abortion statistics. By Planned Parenthoods own admission they performed 264,943 abortions in 2006 making a profit of $55.8 million. How disgusting.

  • Posted By: GeorgiaJayhawk @ 01/17/2008 12:25:15 PM

    For me it's not about whether or not I think it's right. It's that I have no right to make other people's decisions for them, and I sure as hell don't want someone else making mine. Every single situation is different and individual. Abortion has been happening since the dawn of time, and it makes a lot more sense for there to be safe, regulated option available, than women ending up on a kitchen table in unsterile conditions being destroyed by some back alley butcher. When everything is said and done, how can you trust a woman to raise a child when you couldn't even trust her with the choice.

    • Posted By: luciefreddie @ 01/17/2008 12:45:35 PM

      I seem to be picking on you a little today...I'm sorry. It does make more sense to make regulated abortions available. To me, it would make more sense to wear a ski mask when I robbed a bank. (I know that this is a quite juvenile analogy, but my brain isn't very creative this afternoon) Robbing a bank is still wrong though. In the same light, abortions are wrong. Making them available doesn't solve the problem. Instead of putting a temporary "fix" (I personally feel that abortion ends up making the situation worse in the long run), we need to find a solution.

      • Posted By: GeorgiaJayhawk @ 01/17/2008 1:05:15 PM

        this is a dicussion, so its all good....I never said whether it was right or wrong...only that it's not up to me to make someone elses choices. Abortions will happen regardless of how you or I feel about them, with that in mind, I would rather it be done in a regulated hopsital environment, by skilled liscensed practitioners than under deplorable conditions.

  • Posted By: Logical_Thinker @ 01/17/2008 1:04:43 PM

    First let me say that I am a white male to clear up any confusion before it happens. Having said that, I don???t see how any male can get on here and say, ???Oh abortion is wrong and I would never do it!??? You are just as bad as the racist business owners who say that they would hire a green man if he was the most qualified person. It is my firm belief that due to the natural state of human nature, no human being can say what he or she would do until put into the situation. And last time I checked men can???t have abortions because they can???t get pregnant so why don???t you come down off your high horse? It is really easy to stand there and say you would or would not do something knowing you will never be put to the test.

    On the Jesus said it is wrong front, last time I checked Jesus and his Bible have no legal precedence in this country. The Constitution gives you the right to believe that the earth is 6000 years old, that when we die we go to some magical city in the sky to hang out with the almighty himself, that humanity really started with just two people, that a book written by men can qualify itself as creditable, and that we are not good enough as soon as we are born so we need to repent for a piece of fruit that we didn???t eat. However, the Constitution also gives me the right to laugh at you. That is the beauty of this country; your religious beliefs have to stay away from my legal rights. Almost every great civilization throughout history has ended due to turmoil caused by the fusion of church and state.

  • Posted By: peace and love @ 01/17/2008 12:50:04 PM

    It's imperative to vote for pro choice candidates as it's clear the anti choice side will attempt to withdraw the freedom of choice from women. Along with the pro choice election results, we shall move The Supreme Court back to the center where it belongs. As strong as the anti choice side is, the pro choice will be there as well representing the majority of Americans.

    • Posted By: Ithink4myself @ 01/17/2008 1:03:27 PM

      peace and love : Don't mince words! Call yourself what you are! Pro Abortion! The choosing comes before sex.

  • Posted By: Camilla @ 01/17/2008 12:58:51 PM

    Why? That's an easy one. The Call....7-7-07...Nashville. 100,000 Americans gathered to cry out to God for our country, its youth and to end abortion. Praise and credit to HIM.

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