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By Giulia Carbonaro
Senior Reporter
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One Pentagon official’s reported reference to an “Avignon papacy” has widely been interpreted as a direct threat by Donald Trump's administration against the Vatican and Pope Leo XIV, who has been critical of the U.S. president and the Iran war.
On Wednesday, Vice President JD Vance said he would look into the reports that senior Pentagon officials lectured the Vatican's ambassador, leading to the cancellation of a planned visit by Pope Leo XIV.
Vance, speaking in Hungary, was asked about reports first shared by The Free Press that said Cardinal Christophe Pierre was told in January that the Vatican and the Catholic Church should get on board with the Trump administration's military tactics.
A spokesperson for the Department of Defense told Newsweek that the Free Press' characterization of the meeting was "highly exaggerated and distorted."
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The reference to the Avignon Papacy might be obscure for many but would have been immediately understood by the Roman Catholic Church leaders as a not-so-veiled warning that tensions between the Holy See and the White House might be nearing a breaking point for the Trump administration.
Newsweek contacted the Vatican for comment by email on Thursday morning.
What Is the Avignon Papacy?
Between 1309 and 1377, seven different popes resided in Avignon, in southern France—though it was not part of the French kingdom then—instead of Rome.
The transfer had been strongly supported by King Philip IV of France, who had previously clashed with Pope Boniface VIII, the leader of the Roman Catholic Church from 1294 to 1303, over his ability to tax the clergy without the pontiff’s permission. This was against canon law.
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Clashes between the two continued for years over similar issues challenging the pope’s and the king’s respective authorities, until Boniface’s death. After the brief papacy of Benedict XI in 1304, Clement V, a French pope, was elected through the machinations of Philip.
He spent his first few years undoing Boniface’s legacy to appease the French monarch, and in 1309 he selected Avignon as his residency to avoid political turmoil in Italy. The move was supposed to be temporary, but it lasted for 68 years.
The end of the “Avignon papacy” led to the so-called “Great Western Schism” in 1378, when following the death of Gregory XI, a French pope who had decided to return to Rome, a series of “anti-popes” assumed the vacant seat of Avignon. The schism was only healed in 1417.
Why Bring Up This Chapter of Medieval History?
The Free Press recently reported a closed-door Pentagon meeting in January during which a Trump senior official referenced the “Avignon papacy” to Vatican officials as the conversation between the two parties got heated.
In his reporting, Mattia Ferraresi calls the meeting at the Pentagon—for which there is no public record—the culmination of months of brewing tensions between Donald Trump and Pope Leo XIV.
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Under Secretary of War for Policy Elbridge Colby reportedly summoned Cardinal Christophe Pierre, Pope Leo XIV’s then-ambassador to the U.S., to the Pentagon after the pope’s January state-of-the-world address, which was interpreted as hostile to the Trump administration.
A line that particularly enraged officials reportedly was the one saying that “a diplomacy that promotes dialogue and seeks consensus among all parties is being replaced by a diplomacy based on force.”
According to Ferraresi and Vatican expert Christopher Hale, this statement was taken as a criticism of Trump’s “Donroe Doctrine,” his update of the “Monroe Doctrine” which supports U.S. dominance on the Western Hemisphere backed by military force.
As things got heated, Colby reportedly lectured Cardinal Pierre on the military power of the U.S. and told him that the Catholic Church must pick a side, according to Hale, and mentioned the “Avignon papacy.”
All information about the meeting was obtained by Ferraresi from Vatican and U.S. officials briefed on the Pentagon meeting.
What Could Such a Reference Indicate?
There is no doubt that a reference to the “Avignon papacy” by a Pentagon official was meant to make the Vatican feel uneasy about crossing the Trump administration.
Some have suggested that the reference of this chapter of medieval history might signal the Trump administration’s intention to trigger a new schism, while others think it would suggest its willingness to use military force against the Holy See. Ferraresi, however, said that interpreting it as a military threat is “just absurd.”
According to Mike Young, author of a newsletter on civic accountability, the mention of the “Avignon papacy” was a reference to “an implicit model for what happens to religious institutions that oppose state power.”
In a post on X, he wrote: “That’s not a slip of the tongue. That’s a studied historical reference deployed deliberately in a room with the Pope's senior diplomat. The message was not subtle.”
The Department of Defense has downplayed reporting of the meeting altogether. “The meeting between Pentagon and Vatican officials was a respectful and reasonable discussion,” a spokesperson told Newsweek. “We have nothing but the highest regard and welcome continued dialogue with the Holy See.
Speaking in Hungary about the reported meeting at the Pentagon, JD Vance, who is Catholic, said: “I think it’s always a bad idea to offer an opinion on stories that are unconfirmed and uncorroborated, so I’m not going to do that,” he said.
How Has the Holy See Responded?
Tensions between the Holy See and the Trump administration have continued since January, with Pope Leo XIV repeatedly making anti-war speeches that many have interpreted as targeted at the U.S. president.
More concretely, Ferraresi suggests that the meeting in January led to the pope refusing to visit the U.S. as part of the nation’s 250th anniversary celebrations. According to the Free Press, the Vatican did initially entertain the idea, but postponed the visit indefinitely because of foreign policy disagreements.
On July 4, the pope will be visiting the Italian island of Lampedusa, the first place of arrival for many North African migrants seeking to reach the European Union.
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