Everyone Is 'Worried on Team Trump' Amid Pence Subpoena: Kirschner

  • Former Vice President Mike Pence is seeking to block a subpoena issued by Special Counsel Jack Smith by arguing that he is protected under the Constitution's Speech or Debate Clause.
  • But Attorney Glenn Kirschner believes that Pence's argument will fail and that he will ultimately testify before the grand jury.
  • "I think everybody is worried on Team Trump," Kirschner said.

The subpoena looming over former Vice President Mike Pence likely has everyone on former President Donald Trump's team "worried," according to attorney Glenn Kirschner.

In a tough blow to the former president, Special Counsel Jack Smith last month ordered Pence to testify in the Justice Department's investigations into Trump. Pence is seeking to block Smith's efforts by arguing that he's protected under the Constitution's Speech or Debate clause, while Trump is asserting executive privilege over Pence's testimony.

Although the two Republicans are in the process of fighting the subpoena, Kirschner said he doesn't believe either argument will succeed.

"I think Mike Pence will testify at the end of the day," the attorney told MSNBC on Sunday. "Mike Pence will find himself inside the grand jury. I think everybody is worried on Team Trump."

File Photo Trump and Pence Capitol Bulding
a file photo of U.S. President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence arriving at the U.S. Capitol to attend the weekly Republican Senate policy luncheon January 09, 2019 in Washington, DC. Alex Wong/Getty Images

The former vice president made a rare move by using the Speech or Debate clause"—which state that legislators "shall not be questioned in any other place"—to shield himself from the subpoena.

Pence is arguing that the clause, which protects members of Congress from certain law enforcement actions that pertain to their legislative duties, applies to him because the vice president acts as president of the Senate.

"On the day of Jan. 6, I was acting as president of the Senate, presiding over a joint session described in the Constitution itself," he told reporters at an event in Iowa last month. "So I believe that that Speech and Debate Clause of the Constitution actually prohibits the executive branch from compelling me to appear in a court, as the Constitution says, or in 'any other place,'" Pence said.

Kirshner said Pence's argument is likely to fail because he wasn't acting in the capacity of a legislator nor was he engaged in robust debate about legislation.

Kirschner also said Pence's efforts to fight the subpoena seem particularly odd given that he has been "comfortable talking about [the January 6, 2021, U.S. Capitol riot] publicly," especially since the publication of his latest memoir.

"I don't fully understand why Mike Pence is unwilling to stand up for the people of the United States of American and talk about, for example, the pressure campaign that Donald Trump waged against him to get him to commit federal crimes—violate the Electoral Count Act on January 6 and obstruct Congress' official proceedings certifying Joe Biden's win," the attorney said.

Pence isn't the only high-profile figure from the Trump administration who has been subpoenaed by Smith. The former president's eldest daughter, Ivanka Trump, along with husband and former White House adviser Jared Kushner, have been asked to testify in the probe into Trump's role in the Capitol riot.

Newsweek reached out to Trump for comment.