Donald Trump Is a 'Goddamn Witness' in the Mueller Investigation, Lawyer John Dowd Told Special Counsel: Book
President Donald Trump is "essentially a goddamn witness" in the special counsel's investigation of Russia's interference in the 2016 election and the Trump campaign, according to the president's own former lawyer John Dowd.
Dowd made the remark while arguing with and threatening special counsel Robert Mueller during negotiations over a potential interview of the president, according to a copy of reporter Bob Woodward's book Fear obtained by Newsweek.
The apparent slip up by Dowd could be an indication that the president was witness to some of the convicted and alleged crimes Mueller is investigating. Mueller has already claimed guilty pleas from three former members of Trump's campaign—George Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn and Rick Gates—and last month earned a conviction against former campaign chairman Paul Manafort.
What Trump knew and when about Flynn's lying to Vice President Mike Pence and the FBI about his talks with Russia's former ambassador to the U.S., and the machinations behind Flynn's eventual forced resignation, are reportedly key points of Mueller's probe as well as a central part of Woodward's account.
In another chapter, Dowd conducts a mock interview with Trump and focused on questions pertaining to Flynn's departure. Trump is quoted as saying he thought White House counsel Don McGahn had spoken to former acting attorney general Sally Yates but that he was "not sure," and provided similar answers when pressed about Flynn's contacts with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak.
Trump later tells Dowd that former chief of staff Reince Priebus and McGahn had recommended Flynn's firing, but also answered that he could not remember if either official had told him about Flynn's lying to the FBI.
The special counsel's office declined Newsweek's request for comment.
Woodward's book, scheduled for release Tuesday, included damaging anecdotes and quotes about Trump and how members of his administration attempt to circumvent or ignore the president in an effort to keep the country safe. The president has derided the book as a work of fiction.
During the heated exchange in March, Mueller is described by Woodward as a "poker player mid-game" as he eventually threatens Dowd to subpoena Trump to appear before a grand jury.
Dowd erupted at Mueller and pointed to the 1.4 million documents and 37 witnesses provided to the special counsel while claiming no president before Trump had cooperated as much. He also noted Trump was not even a target or "barely a subject" of the investigation.
"He's essentially a goddamn witness," Woodward quotes Dowd as saying to Mueller. "And I'm going to tell the judge that. So he has no criminal liability…Nothing. And I'm going to tell the judge I'm not going to let you play gotcha. I'm not going to have you start testing the recollection of this president over something that – there is no crime."
According to Woodward, the contentious back and forth between Mueller and Dowd took place on March 5. Dowd departed the president's legal team just over two weeks later.
Several reports earlier this year indicated that while Mueller may still be investigating Trump, the president himself was not a criminal target of the probe. The special counsel told Trump's legal team in March that it was preparing a report about Trump's actions, according to The Washington Post in April.
Later in April, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein reportedly told Trump that he was not a "target" of Mueller's investigation, according to Reuters. Rosenstein heads up and ultimately signs off on any charges Mueller hands down following Attorney General Jeff Sessions's recusal from the Russia probe last year.
Trump's legal team, which now consists of attorneys Rudy Giuliani and Jay Sekulow, have continued negotiations with Mueller over an interview with the president. Trump has said publicly that he would like to speak with Mueller, but Woodward quotes Trump as saying he doesn't "really" want to testify.
Unlike Giuliani, Sekulow worked beside Dowd earlier this year. Newsweek's attempts to reach Sekulow through his American Center for Law and Justice, where he serves as chief counsel, were unanswered.
Dowd is also quoted by Woodward as saying he believes Trump would be a poor witness who would likely commit perjury and "wear an orange jumpsuit." Dowd has denied telling the president he should either not testify or face prison time.